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All-TigerNet [13190]
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The "genius" of Spurrier
Jul 19, 2013, 1:13 PM
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He has USCe convinced that Clemson is soft, and for the most part, he is correct. They come into the game expecting to kick our teeth in, and in the last 4 games, that is exactly what has happened. Take these plays from last years game under consideration.
1. Sammy gets tackled from behind with a shoe lace tackle. Coot gets up and runs his mouth. Sammy doesn't do anything the rest of the game.
2. Ellington gets lit up by Jungle Boi, and then Jungle Boi flexes on him WWE style. Clemson calmly returns to the huddle and Ellington doesn't do anything the rest of the game.
3. Thompson slowly lumbers down field in search of a first down. Our 5th year safety has an opportunity to cut him in half before he reaches the 1st down marker. Instead, he holds him up, slaps at the ball, and escorts Mr. Thompson out of bounds a few inches past the line.
4. We are down late and decide to punt in order to save face.
We need to face the facts. South Carolina has lined up and physically beat us the last 4 years. Spurrier has his team and his fans convinced that Clemson is a soft ACC team who crumbles when you punch them in the mouth. When South Carolina takes the field against us, that is how they expect the game to go. Last years game in particular showed our lack of toughness and agression on offense, defense, and coaching. We will not beat South Carolina until this problem is solved, but the strange thing is, South Carolina is the only team this applies to. I fully expect to line up against Georgia and play them straight up, same with F.S.U., and both of those teams are just as strong and physical as USCe. We have to get over our mental block, and it's going to take some big hits and physical play to accomplish that.
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Hall of Famer [24761]
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The only "facts" are a lack of depth/experience on the lines
Jul 19, 2013, 1:20 PM
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That's the difference recently and is now no longer applicable. This year WILL be different.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Really, that's a terrible excuse
Jul 19, 2013, 1:23 PM
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So, we have lacked depth and experience the last 4 years? That's just not true, last year we had plenty of depth on the D-line and plenty of experience on the O-Line. No wonder South Carolina fans think we're soft, we use the same excuse every year.
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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So basically you agree with "We Too Deep" ?
Jul 20, 2013, 12:10 PM
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And be careful not to contradict your coot lovin self
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Mascot [19]
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Re: So basically you agree with "We Too Deep" ?
Jul 20, 2013, 12:36 PM
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Exactly who are you talking to cupton?
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CU Medallion [55398]
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Re: The only "facts" are a lack of depth/experience on the lines
Jul 19, 2013, 2:10 PM
[ in reply to The only "facts" are a lack of depth/experience on the lines ] |
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Some feel that they have put their finger on all our problems these past 4 years of losing to the inbreeds of the fake usc. I'm not going to say I have any better answers than anybody else. But I'm going to point my finger more towards the 2009 recruiting class. Not for sure if I'm correct on the number but, I think we were going to sign like 21 or 22 that year when we only signed 12, The Dandy Dozen. My opinion is that KILLED us on the experience depth chart until now 2013. Every body has the right to believe what ever they choose to believe. I choose to believe the dandy dozen of 2009, is where the coots gain the upper hand on us with their more experience depth. We have had as good or maybe better starters than they've had. But we didn't have much in experience to rotate in for resting our starters. That's where I'm pointing my excuse finger!!!
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: The only "facts" are a lack of depth/experience on the lines
Jul 19, 2013, 4:00 PM
[ in reply to The only "facts" are a lack of depth/experience on the lines ] |
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how long does it take to develop depth and experience. we have been singing this same song that we are young for too long. so you telling me we have not developed any talent or depth in 4 years? we just got to start recruiting o and linemen as aggressively as we do qbs and receivers. that's what will develop good players in the trenches. how many guys now on the o line were at one point d linemen. it should not have to work that way. jmho! games and championships are won in the trenches at the line of scrimmage.
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: The only "facts" are a lack of depth/experience on the lines
Jul 19, 2013, 4:16 PM
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dabo and the team have let ball sac get in their head. you cant try to argue with spurrier in the press. ignore him and he will quit. dabo tries so hard because spurrier rubs his nose in it and it makes everyone tight(players and coaches). they play not to lose instead of winning. but the blueprint to beat cm is keep his o off the field. his o is a timing one. when you have db come up and be physical and knock them off their routes, it creates time for one to get to the qb and breaks down the routes. if the receivers don't get separation to run the routes it causes problems. in this style of o you are throwing to a spot before the receiver makes his break.
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Rooter [228]
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Re: The only "facts" are a lack of depth/experience on the lines
Jul 19, 2013, 9:12 PM
[ in reply to The only "facts" are a lack of depth/experience on the lines ] |
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B.S. and just an excuse. With your "facts" the tigers still managed to win a bunch of games and become conference champions. "Fact" is they were soft against the coots as suggested. Spurrier is under Dabo's skin. Let's see if that changes.
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Hall of Famer [24761]
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Maybe a little money where the mouth is? I don't give a
Jul 19, 2013, 9:18 PM
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rat's rump about last year's game at this point but I'd love to entertain a bet the week before the game and the only reason I won't do it now is a possible key injury. We enter that game healthy and we WIN.
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: Maybe a little money where the mouth is? I don't give a
Jul 20, 2013, 11:33 AM
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hey solo, how many of the last four years have you been saying this is the year? that's the point op is making. we have to quit talking and get more physical. recruit more and better o and d linemen. injuries are part of the game, and cant be discounted. we all need to stop making excuses and win. they have just been better than us for the last 4 years. does it continue? if we don't correct our problems, I am afraid to say so but yes!
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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Lets hope it doesnt take us 40 years like it did yall***
Jul 20, 2013, 12:08 PM
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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they did win last year. were they better? not imo.
Jul 20, 2013, 5:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: Maybe a little money where the mouth is? I don't give a ] |
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they beat us that night,yes. however, i still say, and so did the national sports betting services, and other coaches (polls), and media (polls), that we were the better team. unless you were born yesterday, you have seen an upset in sports, they happen, its a fact. it does not always mean the best team won, that is why they are called upsets. the better team doesn't always win, not every time, anyway!
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Orange Blooded [2468]
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It's time for us to hit them back***
Jul 19, 2013, 1:24 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I agree, the question is, will we
Jul 19, 2013, 1:26 PM
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Are we mean enough and nasty enough to go in and play the physical brand of football that game requires. That attitude starts from the top and works its way down to the players. Are we mean and nasty or are we a nice team that is so worried about showing class and being friendly that we let the bully steal our lunch money?
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Oculus Spirit [75717]
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This game, we need to hit them first then hit them again
Jul 19, 2013, 1:30 PM
[ in reply to It's time for us to hit them back*** ] |
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before they have a chance to figure out they've been hit. We need a few guys like Keith Adams in that other players didn't even want to look at him on account he may snap them for fun.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I miss Coleman and McDaniels
Jul 19, 2013, 1:33 PM
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They would lay you out and not apologize.
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110%er [8681]
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McDaniel had QB's affraid to throw to his side of the field
Jul 19, 2013, 1:37 PM
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and had receivers hoping the ball wasn't coming to them. He was a rare combo of a hard-hitting saftey and knew how to play the ball well.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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My hope is that Blanks can fill that role
Jul 19, 2013, 1:41 PM
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I don't know if he's mean enough though. I didn't see much of a mean streak last season. Kearse seems like a kid that isn't afraid to hit, maybe he is the answer.
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CU Medallion [55745]
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The Chad and last year's coot game.
Jul 19, 2013, 1:27 PM
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I agree with your sentiment and especially on point number 4. I hate that we gave up at the end.
That said, the conventional narrative of last year's coot game is that it was a "game of 2 halves" and our "defense could't get off the field" in the 2nd half.
I disagree with that narrative. In that game and in other big games (See the Orange Bowl, for example), The Chad goes into brainfart mode with his play calling. The standard line is, "we're playing to win", but when the run is working, why go away from it? If nothing else it keeps the offense out a little longer and gives the D a rest.
So for all the talk about Tajh being scared and Clemson being soft, not many folks are talking about poor play calling and giving up - both of which were on the coaches.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I do think Tajh was scared
Jul 19, 2013, 1:32 PM
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I don't think he was physically scared of Clowney, but he played like he was scared to throw an INT. Go back and watch how many times he sets in the pocket, looks down field and doesn't pull the trigger. He didn't do that against L.S.U. and he gave our WR's a chance to make plays against a far superior L.S.U. secondary. Against USCe he kept holding onto the ball and running into the middle of the USCe line like they had Deion Sanders and Ed Reed in the secondary.
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CU Medallion [55745]
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Agreed. And a lot was on the line in that game.
Jul 19, 2013, 1:37 PM
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So I understand his hesitation.
I hope we play like we have nothing to lose and beat the coots by 100 in the WB this November.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Tajh took much more of a pounding against LSU….
Jul 19, 2013, 5:02 PM
[ in reply to I do think Tajh was scared ] |
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so his play in the game against SCU really doesn't reflect him, it reflected the play calling. All that "scared" stuff is baloney. If he was so scared, he wouldn't have had the game of his career against a much more balanced and better defense in LSU. Against SCU, we abandoned the run after the 1st qtr. For what reason I don't know. We fed right into the strength of SCU's pass defense, which is the pass rush. If we would have stuck with the run, we would have beaten SCU by at least 17 points.
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CU Guru [1146]
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Re: The "genius" of Spurrier
Jul 19, 2013, 1:47 PM
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The only positive was we prepared better for LSU after playing Usuc.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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We didn't play scared against L.S.U.
Jul 19, 2013, 1:49 PM
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We don't play scared against any other team. I just don't get our hang up with USC.
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All-In [38427]
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LSU thought we would roll over too.
Jul 19, 2013, 1:49 PM
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Didnt happen. Couldnt disagree more with the op , we just havent had the right gameplan , execution or any of the breaks one might logically expect to win the last few games against Sackerlina.
They have beaten us for sure , and Spurrts has a good team over there but we are capable and should expect to win down there this November...at least that is how I feel about it.
If our defense is as good as I think they will be by then I expect to beat them, got a feeling the offense is going to play lights out against the Coots this fall , just a hunch.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Like I said
Jul 19, 2013, 1:52 PM
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We don't play scared against anyone else.
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Orange Blooded [3821]
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It's the economy, stupid
Jul 19, 2013, 2:09 PM
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To use the analogy from James Carville. Don't over-think this. It's simple. Number of snaps. SCAR has beaten us 2 years in a row keeping the ball out of our hands with a ball control offense. We even that up its no contest.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Well, if we're really not going to think
Jul 19, 2013, 2:12 PM
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I would say we probably need to score more points than they do this year.
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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Re: The "genius" of Spurrier
Jul 19, 2013, 2:19 PM
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That is true but, I believe things changed during the LSU game & we will keep that attitude
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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You should go back and watch the 2012 game. That was no
Jul 19, 2013, 2:50 PM
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physical beat down, they kept us off the field the whole 2nd half because we couldn't cover a turd with a beach blanket.
They didn't run it down our throats. We ran it well when we tried, esp when we optioned Clowney.
That was Spurrier taking advantage of our weakness and Thompson made some good throws.
Watch it again.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I recently watched it
Jul 19, 2013, 2:57 PM
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Tajh holds the ball way too long in the second half, and our skill players get beat up.
Our defense plays soft, and doesn't hit anyone. If you're going to play off you have to tackle, and we mostly just push USC players out of bounds after they pick up the first down. Also, we get zero pass rush on Thompson, making it much easier on an untested Q.B.
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Orange Blooded [2929]
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Re: I recently watched it
Jul 19, 2013, 4:53 PM
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You re-watched that game? Are you a masochist?
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Yes***
Jul 19, 2013, 4:57 PM
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All-In [27180]
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OK, I'll bite......
Jul 19, 2013, 2:57 PM
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I actually agree with you to some extent w/ respect to physicality (or lack thereof). But retaliating and giving a stupid 15 yard personal foul penalty to your rival is just stupid. But the fact is, our D couldn't make a 3rd down stop to save their lives. Our secondary clearly didn't have the talent level or depth we will have this year. And finally, our guys (for whatever reason) came out flat and I blame our staff for that. I don't think we were mentally prepared. Lastly, CM abandoned the run game for some unknown reason, he got pass-happy in the 2nd half. If he hadn't we'd have won despite all of that.....
That is all.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I didn't say we had to retaliate after the play
Jul 19, 2013, 2:59 PM
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Although I would have enjoyed seeing Jungle Boi get knocked out while he was posing over Ellington for offsetting 15 yard penalties. I would just like to see us play hard and physical during the play. USC plays right to the line of being dirty, and occasionally crosses the line. I don't think we come close to the line.
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All-In [27180]
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Re: I didn't say we had to retaliate after the play
Jul 19, 2013, 3:03 PM
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I think that's what coaching professionals call "smart football". Don't give up yardage to your opponent with stupid fouls. I thought our guys played VERY aggressively vs. GT, by the way. Those were some serious hits I witnessed.
Controlled aggression? You bet. I'm a believer.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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To repeat myself
Jul 19, 2013, 3:09 PM
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We play fine against everyone but USCe. Also, I think Spurrier was fine with giving up the 15 yards on the Jungle Boi play. It seemed to put their D into a frenzy and put our offense into a shell.
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All-In [27180]
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Then I'll repeat myself
Jul 19, 2013, 3:12 PM
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CM got away from the run. That's what put us into a shell. I don't think Swearinger's theatrics had any outcome on the game whatsoever. Poor playcalling on our offense, however, did.
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CU Guru [1218]
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Re: Then I'll repeat myself
Jul 19, 2013, 3:22 PM
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I agree Ridgeland. Swearinger showing his butt didn't stop us. Our playcalling did. I'm still fuming...
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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We got away from the run against L.S.U.
Jul 19, 2013, 3:22 PM
[ in reply to Then I'll repeat myself ] |
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In the 4th quarter especially, but Tajh was cutting the ball loose and letting our receivers make a play. Which is what he didn't do against USCe. The game plan wasn't great, but our skill players still got punked, and our defense still didn't hit...anyone....not 1 time.
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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We got away from the run in the 3rd
Jul 19, 2013, 3:25 PM
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Hence that being our worst quarter. In the 4th Morris began to call more balanced plays and ran AE and McDowell more to get the pressure off Tajh
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Except that's not what happened at all
Jul 19, 2013, 3:33 PM
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In the 4th quarter McDowell ran the ball 4 times and Tajh threw or ran the ball 30 times.
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CU Guru [1218]
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Re: We got away from the run against L.S.U.
Jul 19, 2013, 3:31 PM
[ in reply to We got away from the run against L.S.U. ] |
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I was disgusted. Nothing like the Tiger teams of the 80s. I still havent flushed that L. We HAD them.
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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We lost that game because we abandoned the run
Jul 19, 2013, 3:21 PM
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Chad got pass happy and you can't have Tajh take5-7 step drops if your not going to double/chip Clowney with a TE or RB. He put Thomas on an island and as good as he was last year he wasn't good enough to deal with that situation. Also our secondary was swiss cheese and Thompson made the throws to beat us.
We didn't respond to any of the crap LSU and it's players were doing either and we still won that game. You don't need to retaliate to prove that you aren't tough.
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All-Conference [405]
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^^^^^This. Absolutely, spot on.
Jul 19, 2013, 3:24 PM
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I don't know what this Drew guy is talking about. If he thinks some lice-infested dirtpecker jumping around doing an MMA pose is what won the game, well dang....
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Junkie [515]
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Re: Simplified thinking....this is simple thinking to avoid.
Jul 19, 2013, 5:42 PM
[ in reply to We lost that game because we abandoned the run ] |
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thinking that SC was a simply better team. Just like the year before when many tried to lay the loss off on Ingram and a dropped pass to Watkins.
To try to excuse off the loss as simple as well if Clemson had just ran the ball, everything was solved is silly.
It assumes that SC did not and would not have changed their defense strategy in reaction and here is the big kicker....CLEMSON is not ALABAMA and is no longer constructed to offensively line up and run their way to victory. Those days are gone...Clemson is dependent on passing for its offensive production and thinking that they were going to line up vs SC and run the ball 70 times for victory is wishful thinking.
And this does nothing to address the fact that the defense simply could not get SCs offense off the field from the 2nd Qtr on.
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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are you saying it's like a so-called push-off ?
Jul 19, 2013, 6:03 PM
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actually,3rd down conversions is what killed us last year. simply put, we have to do a better job of forcing them to punt the **** ball, or just pick off a pass or three, and cause a couple fumbles.
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110%er [8015]
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How much do you actually know about our offense?
Jul 19, 2013, 6:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Simplified thinking....this is simple thinking to avoid. ] |
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I'd guess not a whole lot, since our passing game RELIES on our running game, not the other way around.
It's the reason we averaged nearly 200 yards rushing per game. We have to run the ball to be successful. We do not run a WVU air raid spread.
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Junkie [515]
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Clemson relied on the running game against Auburn
Jul 19, 2013, 8:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: Simplified thinking....this is simple thinking to avoid. ] |
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pretty well. Not to mention, our defense wouldn't even be in those situations if our offense could have just stayed on the field. We all know Clowney was the deal breaker when Clemson had the ball, and we also know he is mostly a pure pass rusher. LSU pounded the ball at him all game and because of it. We could have done much of the same. As far as your line about the offensive line, many will tell you that LSU's line is not as good as ours (as shown by the 5 sacks we had on them). So if you would have "changed your strategey," then couldn't you have done the same for LSU? (especially knowing that they were gonna run the ball WAYYY more often than anyone you had played all year)
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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The LSU game was the first time I saw us really tackle
Jul 19, 2013, 4:12 PM
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Our defense hasn't really tackled anyone in years. The last time I wore a helmet was on a 9th grade 2A high school team and I felt like I knew better tackling fundamentals than the ones our boys were showing on the field. We always pawed at them and tried to strip the ball, which never works. We also dropped into our zones too much on defense. That is great you can set up a zone perfectly, but it doesn't friggin work when Thompson is running up the middle and our defender sits there in his zone the whole play. If the D-Line is wrapped up, most of the secondary is wrapped up in coverage, why in the hell did our linebackers sit there on their hands while thompson and shaw were running free. Its almost like some of our guys were so concerned about staying perfectly within their zones they totally ignored the fact that the BACKUP quarterback is running up the score on his own feet. #### the zone, tackle the guy!
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Hall of Famer [24761]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42480
Joined: 7/31/10
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As I remember it, they were actually overrunning the plays.***
Jul 19, 2013, 5:31 PM
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CU Guru [1142]
TigerPulse: 53%
Posts: 2240
Joined: 6/5/12
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Re: The "genius" of Spurrier
Jul 19, 2013, 8:07 PM
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drewtigeralum03 is exactly right!! SC is more physical than Clemson and has been for years! The HUNH offense is based on timing , speed, deception, not physicality. I get that, but the Tiger defense is softer than it should be. I hate to sound like a broken record, but it's a far cry from Ford's intimidating defensive machines of the 1980's. Opinions vary, but mine thinks that we have gotten even less physical under Dabo than under TB. The LSU game was awesome, but was that an exception or an anomoly? After the SC game, I stated on here that we could use a few Swearinger-like players on the defensive side, and some of these posters acted like I had taken a whiz on Frank Howard's rock! We'll soon know the answer when the Dawgs come to visit. I think BV is molding a defense, but can we get tougher quick enough? If not, it will be a very long night for the Tigers.
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Junkie [515]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 397
Joined: 4/27/13
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But doesn't the HUNH have it's own brand of physicality?
Jul 19, 2013, 8:34 PM
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What about the fact that the LSU players were limping off the field? Obviously you need a physical offensive line to pull off that amount of plays. Not to mention, you gotta be athletic to be physical. So in that sense, Clemson "out-physical'd" the most physical team we played that year.
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CU Guru [1142]
TigerPulse: 53%
Posts: 2240
Joined: 6/5/12
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Re: But doesn't the HUNH have it's own brand of physicality?
Jul 19, 2013, 10:30 PM
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Yes, superior conditioning is a very, very important factor in the success of the hurry-up scheme. No question that it was a huge factor for us against LSU. However, when the HUNH is effectively taken away by the opponents ball-control, clock-chewing offense, then scrimmage physicality(and successful play-calling),not conditioning, becomes the x-factor determinant in the outcome.
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CU Medallion [51531]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43078
Joined: 8/10/04
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That's some cold hard truth.***
Jul 19, 2013, 9:33 PM
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Mascot [19]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 91
Joined: 10/13/12
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Re: That's some cold hard truth.***
Jul 20, 2013, 12:00 PM
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Ok here's my op... spurpecker has had 9 yrs ( not sure but close) to mold his team so in his 4th or 5th yr was coach swinney1st full yr .. now Clemson has recruited and got the chad's offense in full force and brent's defense2 nd which they improved all yr last yr I think they are right where there need to be this year to beat them dirtpeckers into submission and make the head peckerdirt retire!
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Heisman Winner [140459]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33863
Joined: 12/5/10
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You're giving Spurrier a lot of ESPN's credit.***
Jul 19, 2013, 10:04 PM
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Legend [17597]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14150
Joined: 10/24/10
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Fact. SC has outcoached & outplayed us for four yrs
Jul 19, 2013, 10:13 PM
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Yes, we have been soft and overmatched. And yes, 2013 is a new year. We'll see what happens on the field.
My 13-yr old son cannot remember Clemson beating SC. Time for that fact to change.
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Junkie [590]
TigerPulse: 34%
Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/4/09
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Re: Fact. SC has outcoached & outplayed us for four yrs
Jul 20, 2013, 2:11 AM
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LSU was not in season shape after the 45 days off. You could see that was not the same D. Just as well as you could see that Clemson was not the same team in the Orange Bowl. LSU was a great win but I would be careful to make it into anything more than a great bowl win. West Va. found that out last season after the Orange Bowl win.
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Orange Blooded [4787]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9986
Joined: 6/12/10
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do you also go to fgf, and tell usuc fans that the same
Jul 20, 2013, 12:45 PM
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applies to their game against michigan? i ask because i have heard comments about their bowl win against the "storied" history of michigan, not the '12 version, but their HISTORY ! its' awful funny how all these teams' histories can be wiped out in 4 years,or in the wolverines case, 1 game !
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All-In [38427]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33200
Joined: 7/28/11
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the 2 coots above
Jul 20, 2013, 3:05 AM
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know a lot about Clemson and how they should/could win games and such. Maybe Dabo could squeeze you into some meetings before the Uga game , seeing as how you both have it all figured out and stuff.
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CU Guru [1142]
TigerPulse: 53%
Posts: 2240
Joined: 6/5/12
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Re: the 2 coots above
Jul 20, 2013, 8:33 AM
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The pertinent question is........can Dabo figure it out? We'll all know in about six weeks, won't we?
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Heisman Winner [134303]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 26389
Joined: 9/18/12
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I say on the first defensive play, time USC lines up, we
Jul 20, 2013, 8:49 AM
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haul off and bust their a$$ and worry about the five yards later. Let them know from the start that this is going to be a different game. Play physical and get a few unsportsman like penalties and then kick a$$ all game. The streak has to end this year!!!
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Oculus Spirit [93664]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95414
Joined: 12/25/09
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If you are saying...
Jul 20, 2013, 10:41 AM
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"SOS needs punched in the mouth then I'd agree.
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Heisman Winner [134303]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 26389
Joined: 9/18/12
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YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***
Jul 20, 2013, 10:47 AM
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Orange Blooded [2609]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6653
Joined: 9/1/11
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Re: The "genius" of Spurrier
Jul 20, 2013, 12:07 PM
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Hes only a genius to misguided idiots like you.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
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OH YA WELL, HOW ABOUT THIS SMART GUY
Jul 20, 2013, 1:28 PM
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Just kidding
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Scout Team [171]
TigerPulse: 42%
Posts: 615
Joined: 9/24/01
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Re: The "genius" of Spurrier
Jul 20, 2013, 9:47 PM
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Interesting point of view.
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