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Replies: 62
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 12:49 PM
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Just putting this out there: I really disagree.
Lots of things go into making a great QB. You need a guy who's got the physical tools, arm strength, height, strength, etc...Bryant is about a 9 or even a 9.5 of 10 in terms of physical ability, especially when you consider his wheels and how much stress that puts a D under since he's not just our QB, he's also a viable upper-echelon running back in his own right. That "free" player you get from that matters. A lot. You want a guy who's calm under pressure, who leads the team well, commands the huddle, sets the tone with his physical toughness. Bryant does all that and then some as well.
Yeah, he's still a work in progress as a passer. But folks: consider his ceiling. Again, he's not an elite passer yet, but his improvement from where he was as a true freshman - when, frankly, he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn after playing just one year in an actual passing offense at Wren after being a Wing-T guy the prior three years - is nothing short of phenomenal. It's not that Bryant's a naturally bad passer or Just Doesn't Get It, or any such - he's just raw and developing, and his instinct has been (correctly) to protect the football and lean on his legs to compensate and the offense has been tailored this year to allow him to do that.
If he wants the NFL, he's going to have to take it up a couple of notches, sure. But I think he can do that, and I think he will do that. He's improved dramatically every year he's been here, and now he knows he can lead, and win, and be effective. Considering his work ethic and personality - nobody seems less impressed with Kelly Bryant than Kelly Bryant, he comes across as the opposite of a primadonna - you know what he's going to do this offseason: shrug his shoulders, and get back to work.
He's thrown for 7 TD's and rushed for 10 more this year, accounting for 17 TD's, which probably projects to 10-passing-and-14-rushing over the course of a season if trends continue, not even accounting for playoffs. If he can just double that passing total to 20 TD's next year - which means 10 more big, explosive plays over the course of next season, while staying as effective with his feet - we're talking a guy who could (easily) account for 34-35 TD's next year...which is starting to get into Deshaun Watson territory. Whatever, it's certainly elite rarified territory.
Sprinkle another 70 points in over the course of a season, and Clemson's back blowing people out again every week, and those close games we played all year here in an alleged "rebuilding" year in 2017 just...aren't. And everything we've seen out of Kelly Bryant's progression indicates he's more than capable of making that jump, he just needs to get a little more dialed-in on the deep ball. He's good enough (usually) on the short and intermediate stuff. Clean that up a little more too and it really starts getting unfair.
Whatever, don't lose track of the basic fact, which is, IMHO: Kelly Bryant is really talented, he's played some pretty durn good ball and is 9-1 as a starter thus far...and he really hasn't come close to reaching his potential yet. When those deep balls start connecting - and they almost certainly will - opponents are well and truly fried.
Nope, he's not Deshaun Watson, sorry. Not yet. But how many of those do you really get in one lifetime, especially ones ready right outta the box like DW4 was? Whereas we may actually have to wait until his senior year (gosh!) before we see Bryant's best football.
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All-In [48078]
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They are nuts.
Nov 13, 2017, 12:52 PM
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We are at the tail end of the season and they want to experiment with a true frosh who hasn't really been seen. Little late to worry about Bryant. It will be interesting to see who plays if Bryant gets hurt at one point. He obviously takes a beating.
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CU Guru [1239]
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On top of that...
Nov 13, 2017, 11:26 PM
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I wonder if they really have doubt on the coach who just took us the first national title for the first time in over 30 years. And he's about to have 7 consecutive 10-win seasons.
They doubt him? Really?
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Freshman [0]
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Re: They are nuts.
Nov 14, 2017, 7:52 AM
[ in reply to They are nuts. ] |
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I realize to suggest benching KB is not wise, I also think his play the last two games has been below his own standard set the first half of the season. The coaches have seen the same things we have KB playing pretty well before his injury against VT, Louisville and auburn and a KB who seems to have lost something. Their challenge is to figure out how to get his groove back. Benching him isn't the answer.
Haters just accept the fact KB will never be DW4, he may not even be Tajh. He is a fast straight ahead runner but not elusive, very shaky passer over 20 yards but my biggest issue is his pocket presence. He seems to have two options pass or tuck it and run straight ahead, he rarely extends the play by eluding rushers and finding an open man even on 3rd and long when his decision to tuck it and run is an obvious fail. DW4 rarely took off without getting the first down, his vision and decision making were the difference, he's showing that same ability in Houston.
We need to pray the coaches figure out how to coach him up because the KB we have seen the last two games does not get us to final 4. Remembering the job they did with Tajh many times and the performance they got out of Cole Stout against Okl my money is on the coaching staff. They have done it before and I think we'll see them figure it out again. In Dabo and company I trust.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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What does any of that have to do with it?
Nov 13, 2017, 12:52 PM
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Some guys like girls and some like Johnson. NTTAWWT
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CU Medallion [57108]
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nothing wrong with wanting our Johnson in.***
Nov 13, 2017, 12:52 PM
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110%er [6662]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 12:54 PM
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Quozzell..........duck, take cover.
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Orange Blooded [3769]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 12:57 PM
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People easily forget how many boneheaded turnovers we had last year which forced us to have to score and made games closer than they were.
We played a lot of close games last year and I would venture to guess we’ve had a higher avg margin of victory in all of our games compared to last year. KB is perfect for a team whose strength is defense. He allows us to possess the ball for long periods of time and almost all of our drives end in kicks (points or punts).
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Orange Blooded [2238]
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Margin of victory stats, 2015 - 2017
Nov 13, 2017, 1:35 PM
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Average margin of victory through the first ten games of the respective seasons:
2015 - 20.4
2016 - 20.5
2017 - 17.7
We are less than a FG per game away from our average margin of victory over the past two historic seasons. In a "rebuilding year" no less.
Also interesting: We lost one game in 2015 by five points, one game in 2016 by one point, and one game in 2017 by three points ... lost three games in three years by nine points total.
We have things to correct, no doubt, but the sky is not falling.
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CU Guru [1088]
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Re: Margin of victory stats, 2015 - 2017
Nov 13, 2017, 4:16 PM
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Please add in missed FGs that are not KB2's fault to account for the ineptitude at that position.
Once that's accounted for it would appear we are on par with '15, & '16!
Agree with your summary -
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CU Guru [1088]
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Re: Margin of victory stats, 2015 - 2017
Nov 13, 2017, 4:26 PM
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Just did the math based on special team stats.
We are 7 of 14 on FG attempts this year, plus 2 missed XPTs, equals 23 "lost" points, for a 2.3/game average.
Adjusting this leaves us ~0.5 pts / game behind last years average margin of victory.
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: Margin of victory stats, 2015 - 2017
Nov 13, 2017, 5:49 PM
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So last years missed fg’s don’t count?
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All-Pro [663]
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Re: Margin of victory stats, 2015 - 2017
Nov 13, 2017, 7:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Margin of victory stats, 2015 - 2017 ] |
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I appreciate you taking the time to do the averages, but that statistic is if we make 100% of the field goals. That didn't happen in 2015 or 2016 so why figure it up that way with the math? Say he makes 10 out of 14 FG's. That would be 3 more made and a 71% FG percentage. Not too shabby. I would be much happier now and a lot less stressed in those close games if we had 1 more FG in those 3 games this year... Syracuse, NC State, and Wake....... And that's just an average kicker. What if he is as a top rated kicker and makes 12-14 FG attempts. Then in all our games we would have had much more breathing room............OK. I'm rambling
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Walk-On [149]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 12:59 PM
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He has no ceiling as a passer. His one 300+ yard game this year is looking more and more like a fluke every game. It’s not hard to admit that he’s an awful passer, but a great runner.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 1:39 PM
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You realize that by saying he has no ceiling then you're saying "the sky is the limit" which means you believe he could be the best QB ever?
Maybe you should learn how floor and ceilings work, especially when using them to describe an ability.
Also, I wouldn't say he is an "awful" passer, but he surely isn't a DW4. Then again, there aren't many of those anywhere.
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110%er [6281]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 4:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant? ] |
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His completion percentage is 3 percent less than DWs last year. How is that awful? We run the ball more this year and control the game more than last year. We play a different style. Just because we don't throw the ball 40-50 times for 300-400 yards does not mean he is an awful passer. It means we can run the ball with him and our RBs instead of throwing it.
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Team Captain [453]
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Completion percentage alone is meaningless
Nov 13, 2017, 5:36 PM
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his yards per attempt despite that percentage is concerning. For the season his 6.95 YPA isn't great, but in the past two games it's 5.03. That's not going to get it done even if he completes 75% of his passes.
For comparison sake Deshaun was at 7.9 for the 2015 season. Kelly's 2017 YPA ranks 8th in the ACC and unfortunately it's trending down.
I'll grant you that the last two defenses we played were good and least in the case of FSU they are talented, if not statistically good.
But his lack of success downfield is limiting the entire offense. No matter how good the backs are and the line block and how good of a runner Kelly is, if the defense doesn't have to defend anything more than 7-10 yards downfield, a good defense will eat that up as UGA and Notre Dame discovered this weekend.
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110%er [6281]
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Re: Completion percentage alone is meaningless
Nov 13, 2017, 7:49 PM
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If I am not mistaken I do believe he had some big throws against Auburn. I also believe he RAN for 2 TDs against them. How did he do that if they only had to defend 7-10 yards down the field? Or is Auburn not a good D? You will probably say we only scored 14 points. Well we only needed 7. We have scored what we need to when KB plays. He has proven he can beat top Ds. We have beat 2 top 10 D's and 6 top 50 D's. How can you even say as UGA discovered when we beat that team that UGA lost to.
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All-In [38427]
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Re: Completion percentage alone is meaningless
Nov 13, 2017, 8:34 PM
[ in reply to Completion percentage alone is meaningless ] |
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You say : That is not gonna get it done .
But it has , his last two starts are wins over a #20 NC State team and a down year but still very good FSU defense .
He's won both doing it on a partly gimpy ankle to boot .
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All-In [38427]
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CU Medallion [58414]
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Bryant excels in every area except throwing the ball
Nov 13, 2017, 1:01 PM
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downfield, and that does limit us. Obviously, however, our other QBs have limitations that that would negatively impact us even more. People just can't accept that.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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not this yr
Nov 13, 2017, 1:25 PM
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but next yr i hope he isnt the starter. Or at least i hope we go to dual qbs.
Not being able to stretch D's is gonna catch up to us. Thankfully this is our best D in a decade. I still think this D is better than the one that was the #1 ranked a few yrs ago.
KB has done a serviceable job this yr tho. He's managed well and hasn't hurt us. But we'll never win a game with him if our D falters and we have to outscore the other team.
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Oculus Spirit [90819]
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^^^ Geez, you have 43,000+ points XTiGER!
Nov 13, 2017, 1:37 PM
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So, i'm listening & taking in every word you just said!
LoL
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110%er [6692]
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^^^Elitist
Nov 13, 2017, 1:40 PM
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j/k LBB.
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Oculus Spirit [83119]
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Serviceable job? He's arguably the 2nd best running QB in
Nov 13, 2017, 3:29 PM
[ in reply to not this yr ] |
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the country behind Jackson and throws it just as well as the QBs of the highly ranked teams not named Mayfield.
Much better than serviceable.
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110%er [6281]
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Re: not this yr
Nov 13, 2017, 4:20 PM
[ in reply to not this yr ] |
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So the NC St game never happened?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 1:42 PM
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I do think we need to give Hunter Johnson some opportunities in games. If that kid doesnt get enough opportunities to play and become a viable option at QB or the opportunity to at least become the best 2nd string QB in the nation, he will transfer.
That said, Kelly Bryant is doing a great job and exceeding most people's expectations. His weaknesses as a pocket passer are obvious but not season ending, we also knew them. He is a great runner and unlike a lot of QB's, he is decent throwing in the run.
Kelly Bryant is basically Jalen Hurts 2.0, except I think Bryant is a better passer. He will be phenomenal next year which will give us time to get Trevor Lawrence zeroed in for 2019.
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 5:54 PM
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He’s going to transfer anyway when Lawrence takes over. Probably next year.
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All-In [44048]
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You shouldn’t expect Lawrence to overtake Bryant next year.
Nov 13, 2017, 9:03 PM
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Don’t discount how well Bryant does a lot of things. Plus, no head coach is going to bench a QB who leads his team to a division title, and likely conference title and CFP appearance - and possibly more.
I’m amazed at how many people assume that Lawrence is just going to waltz in and be the starter. Not likely that he will start at any point next year if Bryant stays healthy.
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All-Pro [663]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 7:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant? ] |
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I'm pretty sure that K. Bryant is a Red shirt Sophomore. Meaning academically he is a Junior but still 2 more years of playing eligibility after this year. So, we might not see Trevor Lawrence start in 2019. Can you imagine having TL and HJ riding the pine until 2020?
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CU Guru [1239]
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That's incorrect
Nov 13, 2017, 11:37 PM
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Bryant played last year and played 7 games in 2015. He only has one more year.
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CU Guru [1277]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 2:16 PM
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Unpopular opinion ahead:
Kelly Bryant must have a very clean pocket and a very open #1 receiver within a couple of seconds or bad things usually happen in the pass game. That's not NFL QB material. Your post was leading me like a Siren's call until you went there. Then you say if he just DOUBLES his TDs next year he'll be good. Oh is that all? Just double?
KB needs to make the layups, and he's not shown he can do that consistently. He has the physical ability to do it, he just over-thinks it maybe, That's why it frustrates me so much to watch him.
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 3:48 PM
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Doubling his TDs this year would tie him for 49th most. Not exactly DW4 air.
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110%er [7015]
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 5:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant? ] |
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I know, that was funny. If he just doubles his numbers, he will be in Watson territory. Because qbs just double their numbers all the time.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 6:38 PM
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> I know, that was funny. If he just doubles his
> numbers, he will be in Watson territory. Because qbs
> just double their numbers all the time.
All he has to do to do that is hit the 1-on-1's on the outside he's been missing. They've been there to be had...teams are stacking the box like crazy because they know Clemson's run game will eat them up if they don't so those 1-on-1's on the outside will be there all day long.
He's pretty much 0-for-his-last-25 deep shots or something ridiculous like that. Land even 1 of 4 of those and that's 6 TD's right there. So going from a projected 10 of this year to a possible 20 next year is pretty much all about, again, getting the deep ball dialed in. Which was the point.
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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^^^^^Post of the season
Nov 13, 2017, 3:16 PM
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Bravo, Q!
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Legend [16207]
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If he makes it to the NFL, it'll be a different position.
Nov 13, 2017, 3:55 PM
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Pocket passer is what they want and he's the farthest thing from that. I love me some KB, a fine young man and great athlete. The coaching staff needs to do something about his passing drills he doing in practice because he passing is terrible for #4 defending national champ looking to win another natty.
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110%er [6281]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 4:16 PM
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He has been excellent considering this Is his first year starting. We average 4-5 less point than last year. It is not like our O has just fell off. Yes we do average less yards but some of that has to do with the way the games are played. Last year we had to come back in some games this year we are controlling games. We had plenty of games last year like the NC St game. This year that is the only one that has been back and forth. KB has lead us to victory and he has looked calm, cool, and collected in doing so. He has been far better than I had hoped for.
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All-American [550]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 4:45 PM
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As per the KB injuries, we need a practiced backup. When we are behind late in the game, we need an experienced passer. This game coming up may be our last chance to develop either. I guarantee that we will pay for it eventually if we do not act now.
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110%er [6281]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 4:52 PM
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If we are behind late in a game KB will lead us down the field and score.
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Orange Blooded [4048]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 4:52 PM
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When you rode three hundred miles you don't go back home to change horses.
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All-American [550]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 5:13 PM
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you change when the horse is lame!
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110%er [6662]
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 5:17 PM
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Bentley has been lame for a while, what's the excuse there?
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Team Captain [453]
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While I agree
Nov 13, 2017, 5:24 PM
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He cannot be benched at this point, his current level of play may not be good enough to beat Miami, will and will keep S. Carolina in the game. If you watched FSU defend us, they started with 11 players 10 yards from the line and the safeties were moving forward a the snap on nearly every play. If you let S. Carolina play 11 guys up all day they'll be tough to score on. If you let Miami do that they'll be nearly impossible to score on.
He's going to have to be told the throw the ball downfield regardless of what he sees, even if they are bad throws or int's because if you watched ND and UGA play this week you'll realize that you can't go up against a good defense when all your plays are executed withing 7-8 yards of the line of scrimmage. There's just no space to make a play.
At this point starting Hunter Johnson would be crazy, but I feel like you almost have to have Bryant on a hook because right not there is zero ability to threaten any position on the field beyond 7-8 yards of the line.
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All-American [550]
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Re: While I agree
Nov 13, 2017, 5:31 PM
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I think the next game is Citadel not USUK. One game at a time.
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Team Captain [453]
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Thanks,
Nov 13, 2017, 5:37 PM
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But if we're at the point of worrying about QB play vs the Citadel this team has bigger problems than just the downfield passing game.
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All-American [550]
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Re: Thanks,
Nov 13, 2017, 5:43 PM
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And as I said, without an experienced backup we are in trouble.
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110%er [6662]
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Re: While I agree
Nov 13, 2017, 5:43 PM
[ in reply to While I agree ] |
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Why don't we stop all this pretending to have a clue what to do about Bryant and bring Dabo in to settle this. Oh wait. He already has.
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Standout [305]
TigerPulse: 34%
Posts: 736
Joined: 10/19/08
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 6:24 PM
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Yes he should be benched and I didn't even read your long diatribe
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All-In [44048]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32965
Joined: 2/22/03
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Bench him why? How many games has he lost for us?
Nov 13, 2017, 9:13 PM
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Answer: 0
Bonus question: How many games has he won for us?
Answer: several
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Orange Blooded [4659]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6063
Joined: 10/20/15
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 7:55 PM
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Without ruffling feathers or getting too far into it, I honestly don’t think anyone wants “to bench” Kelly Bryant. Rather, they want to see Hunter Johnson “rotated in” and “part of” the game plan.
Remember when DW4 was at the helm and we would rotate KB in on an almost-certain QB run by design? From my viewpoint, it’s not outside the realm of plausibility to rotate in a 5-Star gunslinger like Hunter Johnson for 3rd & 15 situations.
The points left on the field from inaccurate throws don’t mesh well in the minds of most that see Hunter’s had a total of 40 snaps in 10 weeks. It’s not about hating Kelly, it’s more about questioning why we didn’t redshirt Hunter if he wasn’t going to be written into the scheme moreso than he has. Anyone that says “bench Kelly Bryant!” is clearly an idiot... but saying “put Hunter in the game” after 10 incompletions, well that’s just a clemson fan with a reasonable suggestion.
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All-In [44048]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32965
Joined: 2/22/03
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I agree with this 100%***
Nov 13, 2017, 9:15 PM
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Orange Blooded [4976]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Orange Blooded [4483]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 8/11/08
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 8:26 PM
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Consider this. We'd be undefeated if he'd been healthy for the game we lost. No way we lose to Sarah cuse with a healthy KB. He was hopping on one foot basically til his lights went out because he couldn't elude defenders.
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Orange Blooded [4659]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6063
Joined: 10/20/15
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 8:32 PM
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Our defense gave up 440 yards that day and have to take most of that blame. Both the Syracuse loss & NC State close-call were on the defense. We couldn’t make the right adjustments. Tempo is still a huge concern for us.
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All-TigerNet [14470]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 22912
Joined: 11/30/98
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Orange Blooded [4483]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 8/11/08
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 11:47 PM
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You calling me an idiot? Why? Because my opinion is different than yours?
I know the loss is seen as a "team loss". I believe this too. It was on everyone including coaches. But, I still think that is not unfathomable to think that the healthy KB that started the season, would've made enough plays to win that game.
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All-In [38427]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 7/28/11
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 8:28 PM
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That's a lot to say just to disagree ??
FWIW , you're right and I agree with your disagreement.
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Orange Blooded [3138]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 7/31/17
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 8:48 PM
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What do you guys think about a QB completing 107 of 196 passes for 1630 yards, with 9 touchdowns and 9 interceptions over 12 games? Add in 486 rushing yards for 6 more TD's over those same 12 games.
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Orange Blooded [3362]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3342
Joined: 10/6/02
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 13, 2017, 8:50 PM
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Drunk people on Saturdays when KB misses a throw and the bandwagon gets a little too top heavy. They stick out like a sore thumb with their recent TNET registrations (post DW4), low pulse, and low points. And they smell like chicken.
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All-Pro [663]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 701
Joined: 1/16/04
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 14, 2017, 1:25 AM
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When it comes to wisdom on this particular subject, you certainly have a monoPolly, Anna wanna thank you for sharing.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: People still actually want to bench Bryant?
Nov 14, 2017, 7:42 AM
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IMO it sounds like a lot on t-net have never worked in a fast-paced business environment where "contingency plans" are expected when approaching big challenges and serious exposures that could go wrong. IMO, HJ is the contingency plan that needs some serious trial runs to ensure that if we need to go to the backup plan, that it will also work. Failing to test that backup plan could result in disaster.
Grasshoppah, go and meditate and come back with a proven contingency plan.
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