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CU Guru [1133]
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Bryant wasn't completely terrible, but...
Apr 16, 2018, 4:12 PM
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He did miss alot of basic throws that you have to be able to hit when the guy is wide open. All QBs have overthrows and underthrows. I was hoping Bryant had progressed more as a thrower, but for some reason he seems to always be thinking out there. Instead of reacting and just throwing the ball he is trying to finesse it here and there. He has the short throws down pat easy, but touch seems to be a problem. I'm really pulling for him this summer to put it all together. Like it or not we need Kelly B to progress as a passer.
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All-In [27348]
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Re: Bryant wasn't completely terrible, but...
Apr 16, 2018, 4:20 PM
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What is that red stuff I see coming out of this horse?
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CU Guru [1038]
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Re: Bryant wasn't completely terrible, but...
Apr 16, 2018, 7:25 PM
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Poor horse
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CU Guru [1949]
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Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 4:36 PM
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Kelly Bryant's throws on screens. Last season, the velocity just wasn't there on those quick screens to WRs, and it took too long for the ball to get to the WR. I know he has the arm strength to throw those passes harder, but maybe he just didn't trust his accuracy. Overall though, the WR screens last year were much less effective than they have been in past years.
It also didn't help that the defenses could key in on the short and intermediate passes because it was so unlikely that Bryant and company would complete one deep.
With the talent on the roster at QB, I just don't see how Bryant keeps the job if he isn't visibly better than he was last year. The Spring Game wasn't his best performance, although it is true that he's disadvantaged due to the rules protecting the QBs.
If we're honest though, he's not exactly an elite runner. Last season, he amassed 665 yards rushing in 14 games. That's 47.5 yards per game on the ground. It's not like he's Lamar Jackson as a runner (1,600 yards rushing last year). Heck, even Deshaun Watson average 867 yards rushing a season in his SO and JR seasons, and Jalen Hurts of Alabama has averaged 905 yards rushing per season.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 4:52 PM
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What's wrong with saying he's not an elite runner if it's true?
He wasn't even in the top 10 of QB rushers this year, even if you take out the teams that run the triple option, and he averaged 3.5 yards a carry. For reference, Wake's QB had 18 more rushing yards on 52 less attempts.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 5:10 PM
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Okay you are right KB is not an elite runner at all. He lacks the size, skill, speed, and moves to be an elite runner. He only had 11 rushing TDs last year.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 5:18 PM
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He isn't an elite runner, but he's certainly somewhere in the next two tiers of running QBs.
He doesn't show a lot of moves, as far as juking defenders, but certainly has some speed and size to be effective, as evidenced by his 11 TD's you mentioned, of which how many were < 10 yards?
As mentioned he's certainly an above average running QB, but 11 TD's isn't elite. Since I used the Wake QB in my previous post I will again, he had 10 rushing TD's. Lamar Jackson (elite runner) had 18 this year and averaged 6.9 ypc.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 6:51 PM
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I would be guessing but I would bet our RBs had more yards than Louisville's. Hard to compare him to a heisman winner who is pretty much the whole offense for his team. KB is elite running the ball in my eyes. I understand what you are saying tho. I do think DW and LJ are better but those are 2 of the best to do it. Guess it all depends on what u consider elite.
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 6:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually ] |
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Haha. Did you really use ONE run to try and prove your point that he’s an elite runner? For one, it was against a 2 win MAC team. He also stepped out of bounds being completely unaware of where he was on the field, something he did many times last year. It was also his best run of the year. No other run came close to that. His next longest run was the td run against auburn, like 25 yards. He struggled finding holes in the run game and was not good at all running the read option. He had ONE 100 yard game. Hard to say he’s an elite runner, but hey, no surprise coming from someone who thinks he’s a top 5 collegiate qb.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 8:14 PM
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When it comes to winning and losing games he proved he was a top 5 qb. That video has more than one run if you would actually watch it. He has had many runs over 10 yards and plenty of TDs over 10 yards. Sometimes the 3 yard TDs are harder to get running the ball than the long ones. The man is a dang good runner and a great leader. Get over it dude. If he gets beat out that is fine but stop acting like he isn't good.
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 17, 2018, 7:19 AM
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I do think he’s a good runner. But there’s a big gap between good and great, and there’s an even bigger gap between great and elite. 650 yards and 11 tds is good. Not great and not even close to being elite. Tajh Boyd put up almost the same types of numbers running the ball, would you consider him an elite runner also?
You are way way too caught up on the teams win loss record when it comes to rating a qb. Of coarse qb is the most important position on the field and the qb has a lot to do with the outcome of a game, but he doesn’t block, catch or tackle. Having an elite defense will make any qb look good. Wisconsin’s qb went 12-2 this year. Bamas qb in 2015 went 14-1. Oregon’s little skinny qb in 2010 went 13-1. Braxton miller lost like 4 games in his career as a qb. Connor Shaw went 11-2 three times. Jalen hurts is 27-2 as a starter. I could go on and on. Are all of these top 5 collegiate qbs also? Sorry but that’s just a ridiculous way of looking at it.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 17, 2018, 8:46 AM
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Miller and Shaw were both great college qbs in my book. I will give you Wisconsin's QB but he looked pretty dang good against Miami. Ofcourse having a good team around the QB helps but as I have said before we seen what happened last year when KB couldnt play.
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 17, 2018, 8:56 AM
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You’re completely avoiding the question. You said KB winning games makes him a top 5 qb. I listed a bunch of other qbs who won a lot of games. Does that make them top 5 college qbs?
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 4:44 PM
[ in reply to Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually ] |
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100% correct, the screen throws were lobbed a lot of times last year, and if he put more velo on them they sailed. He certainly has the arm strength, but the accuracy doesn't really follow which is the issue.
I think he could be a great runner, he's shown flashes (Auburn, Miami in 2015), but his issue is making the right read and determining whether to keep or give. There were several examples of him handing the ball off when he had the end to take and vice versa.
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Varsity [243]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 5:16 PM
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The decision to pull or give was my biggest complaint last year. I swearhe would do it least once a game. I still think he's a good QB but this offense is built on down field passing and smart decisions in the run game. He struggled with both many times.
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All-TigerNet [10824]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 5:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually ] |
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Just my two cents here. KB was really in his first full year last year. Many of the others we are comparing him against were in year two, some in year three. Also, KB plays in a spread system where everyone gets in on the act. Pretty tough for any one Clemson player to pile up huge stats when the ball is going all over the place. I know, DW4 did put up great stats two straight years. But neither I nor anyone else expected the same from KB. He simply isn't DW4. Also, he wasn't working with the same guys from the championship year- Gallman, Scott and Williams were all gone. The replacements were good, but not as good. I also think Clemson played a rugged schedule last year. Many good to great teams that could stop anyone. KB was fine until 'Bama and then the roof caved in. This year he's facing much tougher competition from within. TL, HJ and CB all look good. As I've mentioned before, I would not be surprised to see a new starter come September. Again, not because KB can't do it, but the others may just be better.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 5:38 PM
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Great post.
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Hall of Famer [21545]
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He’s simply not DW4.
Apr 16, 2018, 6:57 PM
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Exactly and TL absolutely has the potential to be and more.
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 6:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually ] |
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Have to disagree, respectfully, on a couple points.
Tajh Boyd also put up monster stats in this offense. He also had a great year in his first year in the system, just like Watson did. This offense is designed for the qb to put up huge numbers.
Also our schedule was pretty weak last year. The acc Atlantic was not very good last year. VT and Miami turned out to be pretty average. USuCk was terrible as usual. Which teams were good to great or rugged as you suggested?
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 8:26 PM
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So barely losing in one of the new years six bowls makes you average? VT, Miami, and Usuck were all top 25 teams. Auburn is a top 5-10 team. Wake was pretty dang good last year. BC and GT were average. We had a top 5 sos last year so what is up with this easy schedule crap you come up with??
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 17, 2018, 7:23 AM
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You referring to the coots as a top 25 team ends all discussions on this topic with you.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 17, 2018, 8:48 AM
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Are you really that stupid?? They are top 25 in the rankings. It isn't an opinion. You can hate on them all you and and you may not think they deserve the ranking but others who do not hate them with their orange colored glasses on have them ranked.
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 17, 2018, 9:10 AM
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Do me a favor and show me the poll they are ranked in? They were ranked for one week, before we beat the brakes off of them. Everyone who knows anything knows how ridiculous them being ranked was. Shocker you would think they were awesome.
http://www.espn.com/college-football/rankings/_/week/1/year/2017/seasontype/3
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 17, 2018, 9:56 AM
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They still finished the year in the top 30. Yes we beat the brakes off of them but we also did to Miami. Just because we beat them badly does not mean they are bad teams. No they are not great but they are above average for sure.
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 17, 2018, 10:12 AM
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Haha. Good lord man. It has nothing to do with us beating them. They were not a good team all year. Them being a 9 win Sec team and not being ranked tells you all you need to know. When has a 9 win Sec team ever not been ranked? They had to have a Miracle to beat la tech for gods sake. You thinking they were a good team completely voids any Credibility you have on this subject, period. And it’s actually really funny.
Next time you call someone stupid, you might want to get all your facts straight first.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 17, 2018, 10:50 AM
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South Carolina is a good team dude. They are not great but they are in top 4th of fbs teams.
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110%er [5279]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 17, 2018, 11:56 AM
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You really must not have watched any of their games. They are NOT a good team, thety are mediocre...not so great offense, improving defense...they just got the luck of the draw on several games. Defensive turnovers were the name of their season.
They only won by 1 point vs LA Tech...had to stage a comeback to even do that.
They needed 4 turnovers worth 24 points to look dominant against Arkansas, a team that just replaced their HC:
http://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-football/article177694881.html
They only beat Vanderbilt by 7, a team that went 1-7 in the East.
They lost to Kentucky, Georgia, Clemson, and Texas A&M (on a year their coach would end up replaced).
Only beat Florida by 8, a team that went 3-5 in the East.
Only beat Tennessee 15-9 (the team dead last in the SEC East, went 0-8 in the East) ...that's by 6 if you are counting.
Their offense ended up ranked 108th out of 129 teams...that's what you call good?? o_O Remind me not to allow you near our offensive coordinators any time soon.
https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/21/p3
With that stated, they were 44th in total defense...that shows that aspect is the main thing that helped them win games....you don't win 9 games having a 108th ranked offense unless you had quite a bit of defensive help.
https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/22
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 17, 2018, 12:23 PM
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Luck? God you are pathetic. If any other team went 9-4 with 2 of the Ls being to cFp teams they would be considered good but since it is our rival you say it was luck. Gotcha. Turnovers are part of the game that makes you good or bad btw. No their O wasn't that good but their D was pretty solid and they limited TOs and got TOs. They beat most of the teams they should have beat and they beat Michigan and NC St who most expected them to lose to on here. Nobody is saying they are great but they are a good team and a dang good road win for us.
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CU Guru [1949]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 18, 2018, 1:52 PM
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Bill Connelly's S&P Rankings had South Carolina ranked 60th last season. They were ranked 88th offensively, 36th defensively, and 95th in Special Teams.
The bowl game against Michigan, where UM didn't have a QB, even propelled them to 60th. Prior to the bowls, they were even worse.
"The S&P+ Ratings are a college football ratings system derived from the play-by-play and drive data of all 800+ of a season's FBS college football games (and 140,000+ plays).
The components for S&P+ reflect opponent-adjusted components of four of what Bill Connelly has deemed the Five Factors of college football: efficiency, explosiveness, field position, and finishing drives. (A fifth factor, turnovers, is informed marginally by sack rates, the only quality-based statistic that has a consistent relationship with turnover margins.)"
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110%er [5279]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 18, 2018, 2:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually ] |
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I always love the "turnovers are a part of the game" comment...yes they are, but without looking at specifics, you can't just ASSUME it means it was that team that caused them. Maybe it was a big mistake of the other team. A QB misread, a QB that dumbly throws the ball into an opponents hands (think Boyd...FSU 51-14...that should ring a bell, or maybe Marquise Williams of UNC vs South Carolina a few years ago). You know, not all turnovers are the defense creating it.
And they were a manufactured ranked win for us...are you certain that the committee didn't just rank them up there to strengthen how our SOS was looking down the back stretch with once ranked but not anymore VT, Louisville, even said NC State all bombing out of the top 25?? Plain and simple, they only ended up ranked because other teams flubbed up....and might have gotten a boost only due to that. Name me which team had South Carolina beaten while ranked (btw, NC State wasn't ranked when they played first game of the season)??
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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110%er [6280]
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 8:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually ] |
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Agreed and if they overtake his job that is wonderful and I will back them 100%. I believe KB will be improved and he knows how to lead our team. The spring game showed me TL sure as heck knows how to lead us as well. I believe HJ and CB can too. I think KB is better than he played in the spring game tho and people are making that the be all end all. The young guns will have to be better in practice consistently to take the starting job from KB. They are all very different and have different skills but they all can lead us to victory. May the best man win.
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110%er [5476]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 5:11 PM
[ in reply to Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually ] |
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Spot on, everyone completely shut that part of our offense ( screen) completely down. The ball was so late on most occasions we were lucky at best to make anything positive out of the play. KB could not stretch the field on our opponents either. Remember the receiver we had open against Bummer last year and he was overthrown 15 yards. Most of his successful scrambles last year were the result of opponents busted plays, most of the time he did not read the run-pass option correctly.
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Legend [18407]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 5:40 PM
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All these posts make good points but the last two posts were what shut us down the most and what our other qb’s should be able to do. Especially with the screens and slants. You see the film from HJ and TL, they get the ball to the perimeter and slants much quicker.
Don’t take my word for it, listen to our coaches and the experts. Has nothing to do with Kb first year or not. He was mentored for two years by the best we’ve ever had..
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 5:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually ] |
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I agree. Great analysis. Why don't they move him to RB, where he'd have a chance at the NFL? He'll never play a minute in the NFL at QB.
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Letterman [289]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 17, 2018, 11:00 AM
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I agree. Great analysis. Why don't they move him to RB, where he'd have a chance at the NFL? He'll never play a minute in the NFL at QB.
I've been saying this for a while. If they move him to RB, we could run a two back system, & have two QBs & two RBs on the field while only utilizing three slots.
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CU Guru [1510]
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Re: Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually
Apr 16, 2018, 6:07 PM
[ in reply to Something that I rarely see mentioned is actually ] |
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We made it to the playoffs last year with a guy we have little confidence in due, in part, to those who fall behind him on the depth chart. What a great problem for us to be fussing over.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: Bryant wasn't completely terrible, but...
Apr 16, 2018, 5:36 PM
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Kelly is a great guy, and a very good athlete. He could, in my humble opinion, be a very good running back. He does not, however, have the downfield passing touch. Many will say that this is an inborn ability. I honestly don't know. But obviously he has not been ale to develop it---and wont develop it between now and the fall. Alabama quickly realized these limitations, crowded the line of scrimmage. Game over, first quarter. At Clemson, unlike last year, he faces top-tier competition, which in my opinion became painfully obvious during the Spring game. Given a prime opportunity to step up and take control of his position, he appeared woefully inept,and the gap between him and at least the following two QBs was stunning. Big-time college football is brutally competitive. Any player who can't handle that fact shouldn't be playing,at least not at this level. Clemson is now an elite program who will be pitted against the top in the land repeatedly. Against Alabama, they knew that we had no vertical passing threat, crowded the line of scrimmage. Game over in the first quarter. I'm sure that every team we play this season has watched this film, and are ready to cut Kelly in half when he starts to scamper, just like Alabama did. Hey, I don't have a corner on the truth. Hope I'm wrong.
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Legend [18407]
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Re: Bryant wasn't completely terrible, but...
Apr 16, 2018, 5:51 PM
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Good point. BC did the same thing but didn’t have the depth to sustain 4 quarters. Don’t think anyone is throwing kb under the bus and as posted above, he had some moments. Just wasn’t consistent. No he didn’t have the same players that DW4 had but then DW4 didn’t have the D we had last year either.
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Legend [18407]
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Re: Bryant wasn't completely terrible, but...
Apr 16, 2018, 5:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: Bryant wasn't completely terrible, but... ] |
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Good point. BC did the same thing but didn’t have the depth to sustain 4 quarters. Don’t think anyone is throwing kb under the bus and as posted above, he had some moments. Just wasn’t consistent. No he didn’t have the same players that DW4 had but then DW4 didn’t have the D we had last year either.
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Orange Blooded [4247]
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Re: Bryant wasn't completely terrible, but...
Apr 16, 2018, 5:43 PM
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Wasn't terrible??? Yes he was...He got shown up as a senior by at least 2 and one of them is just out of SUMMER SCHOOL...you touchy-feelies need to get a grip..on your goopers (B) this ain't about Jesus on the Cross or Barabbos it is beating Sabons...and he don't care if Jesus is your friend..and neither do i...
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CU Guru [1544]
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Orange Blooded [2055]
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Re: Bryant wasn't completely terrible, but...
Apr 17, 2018, 7:43 AM
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The best place for KB to help this team is at WR or as a situational QB. He is only a slightly above average QB (due to his speed) and just an average QB passer. He has no future in the NFL as a QB. NONE. NOTHING. ZIP. NADA. I don't care if he wins the natty - he is NOT playing QB in the NFL.
It would be a major mistake to ask TL or HJ to hold the clipboard while KB continues to make the offense stutter and stop all the while squandering the talents of an epic d-line. I hope someone on the coaching staff mans up and tells him that his days as a starting QB at Clemson are over. It is what's best for the team and KB himself. Give him some time to develop his WR skills so he might actually play at the next level.
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CU Guru [1133]
TigerPulse: 73%
Posts: 1261
Joined: 11/12/14
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Re: Bryant wasn't completely terrible, but...
Apr 18, 2018, 2:02 PM
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I definitely agree with you! He's quick on his feet, but I definitely don't see him playing QB at the next level. I don't know why the coaches don't just go ahead and work him some at the position to help prepare him for that next step. I mean the way Johnson and Lawrence throw the ball is effortless. They lay the ball right in kids hands.
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