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Orange Blooded [2638]
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So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach
Jul 23, 2017, 5:09 AM
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the pinnacle without the generational talent that is Deshaun Watson. The argument is weak and here is why:
When Dabo recruited Tajh and he started to perform -- he was the best quarterback we'd ever seen ... at least statistically. I recall over on seldom used reserve a ticker measuring how many game-miles Tajh had thrown the ball. On this site, there were multiple posts in his final season about enjoying those last days of his career because he was a generational talent and who knows when another Tajh will come along. Maybe never ...
Since flipping Tajh from Lane Kiffin and Tennessee (yep - they must truly hate us!), Dabo has proven that he can recruit with anyone at all positions -- even OL (omg!). He is restocking at every level. The kids he recruits are far and away good young men. The off-field distractions occur rarely and when they do occur, Dabo is swift and clear in his handling them -- who benches potentially their 2nd best receiver for the semifinal and championship? I can think of only one coach with the character and cajones to do such.
(And those who can't meet that expectation either have to earn their way back in (see Cain) or find other places to be (help me out ...the OL who threw the right hook in trash time in the bowl game and was selected in the provisional draft) or display such a lack of decision-making acumen that they flame out (see Kaleb Chalmers).)
Tajh WAS generational for us -- he was the best QB we'd seen in these here parts maybe ever and certainly since Charlie Whitehurst. But when your most recent generational talent is replaced 1 year later by your next (quote / unquote) 'generational' talent. Does the term really mean what you think it means?
DW4 has moved on and Dabo and the staff have some absolutely fantastic young men preparing to take his place. So - no - we don't rely on the generational-type talent around here anymore. We're bringing in this kind of talent every year instead of every 15-20. When you can do that, then you can compete for championships every year instead of waiting for lightning to strike.
So the naysayers can whine all they like and try to downplay our recent success and call it unsustainable. We know better. Coach knows better. The best is yet to come.
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Orange Blooded [2839]
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Re: So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach
Jul 23, 2017, 5:16 AM
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Good write up. I agree. You take Watson out and replace him with Tajh last season and we probably don't beat Bama, but I have a hard time seeing how we aren't a playoff team with either guy at QB.
Watson was a "generational talent," A Cam Newton type and there's only a few guys who would have the ability to drive the ball at will down Bama's throat and score on the last drive of a title game. BUt that being said we were whipping great teams and winning 10+ games before Watson, and if you think we won't keep doing the same going forward, you're dilusional.
"Dabo doesn't have Deshaun anymore, we'll see what kind of coach he really is now."
Man, y'all have SEEN what kind of coach Dabo actually is. He wins no matter who is playing QB.
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CU Medallion [55402]
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Re: So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach
Jul 23, 2017, 9:00 AM
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Lets not forget how hard and how many times LSU crushed Tajh in our back field, and Tajh would jump to his feet enough times to beat LSU with good plays and putting the ball in our best play makers hands. For me, Tajh Boyd will always be one of our best QBs in my history of Clemson FB. Tajh helped prove that we do belong!!!
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Legend [19944]
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Re: So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach
Jul 23, 2017, 5:43 AM
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(help me out ...the OL who threw the right hook in trash time in the bowl game and was selected in the provisional draft)
---
Isaiah Battle, NC State game, and it was an uppercut.
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Orange Blooded [2638]
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Re: So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach
Jul 23, 2017, 5:58 AM
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Yes it was.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach
Jul 23, 2017, 7:58 AM
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You could also make the argument that Clemson doesn't reach the pinnacle
with out a top ranked defense.
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Orange Blooded [2638]
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Well yes, but ...
Jul 23, 2017, 8:35 AM
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you can't make it to the pinnacle without a great team. Offense and defense and then each group on each side of the ball.
The point is that this staff has built a great team and culture and is not the beneficiary of the efforts of a single great player.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach
Jul 23, 2017, 3:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach ] |
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And Watson had a better O-Line and RB situation over Boyd. I just wonder if Boyd had that would he have made some of the critical mistakes he made?
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110%er [7987]
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Re: So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach
Jul 23, 2017, 8:41 AM
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Where would NE be with Brady? Given that we don't have across the board 5* talent like Bama, a difference maker at QB is a must. FSU won their Natty based on Winston and tOSU crapped the bed last year in large measure due to the lack of a skilled QB
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Commissioner [930]
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Have to disagree....
Jul 23, 2017, 9:17 AM
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with the comment that Tajh couldn't have beaten "Bama. There wasn't one throw that DW made that Tajh couldn't have made. Perhaps DW was a little calmer than Tajh in these situations but Tajh had proven himself under pressure. As was already mentioned the LSU game is a fine example of his ability to both perform and throw under extreme pressure .
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Orange Blooded [2275]
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Re: Have to disagree....
Jul 23, 2017, 10:13 AM
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Boyd would have folded under pressure against Bama. We also saw him do that many times in his career. The Clown man at usuck is a good example of him not handling pressure and I feel like he would have done the same with Foster at Bama.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Orange Blooded [2275]
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Re: Have to disagree....
Jul 25, 2017, 10:44 AM
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One play on 4th and 16 does not mean he can handle the pressure day in and day out.
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Team Captain [495]
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Re: So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach
Jul 23, 2017, 10:32 AM
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The key part of this argument is Dabo and Clemson. Dabo is the generational talent!
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Hall of Famer [24764]
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Very wise for a newb... +1.***
Jul 23, 2017, 10:46 AM
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Orange Blooded [2638]
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Re: Very wise for a newb... +1.***
Jul 23, 2017, 2:45 PM
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Yes, Han er Solos. The force is strong in this one.
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All-In [40767]
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach
Jul 23, 2017, 3:00 PM
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Oregon did the same self imposed drug screen and also suspended players in the year they played OSU for the national championship (first CFP).
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Orange Blooded [2638]
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Re: So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach
Jul 24, 2017, 1:19 AM
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I hadn't heard that. Will check it out.
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All-In [40767]
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Re: So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach
Jul 23, 2017, 3:00 PM
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Great write up. That argument is just plain stupid. Great organizations depend on many great individuals to be successful. It's true that almost all championship teams have that quarterback that is a big part of getting them to the top. You almost always have to have a great quarterback to win it all. The guy touches the ball every single offensive snap. You can have a great quarterback and not win it all. Ask Miami and Dan Marino. A quarterback cannot win it all by himself. That idea is just stupid. You take the best players off of any great team and they will most likely cease to be great. People are just plain jealous.
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Orange Blooded [3981]
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Re: So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach
Jul 23, 2017, 3:02 PM
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Probably not but we had him and we won it so who cares
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Hall of Famer [22711]
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I think Kiffin had decided to go in a different direction
Jul 23, 2017, 3:05 PM
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Not nitpicking, but Tajh had committed to Tennessee
while Fulmer was still there. Then Kiffin took over
and decided he wanted a different style QB, so Tajh
reopened his recruitment. His 3 finalists were
Clemson, Ohio State, and Oregon before committing to
Clemson
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Legend [15749]
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Another thing that amazes me about Dabo is that he created the program
Jul 23, 2017, 11:42 PM
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effectively from scratch. I mean, Clemson has certainly been a successful program for decades, but we seemed to settle into "solid program" status for a long time. Dabo made an elite program, through and through. Culture, academics, facilities, staff, recruiting. No box is left unchecked. He created it, and he did it with NO reputations gravitas to build from. He'd never been a coordinator, let alone a head coach, let alone a successful head coach. That is amazing. And to take that LACK of name recognition and create a program like he did while not being at one of the blue blood schools...just amazing.
It's silly to argue about whether Dabo is better than Urban or Saban. All signs point to a man who will keep his program elite for years to come, but history will judge. All I know is that he's 2-0 against one of them and 1-1 against the other, and people talk about the three of them all the time. That works for me. Saban is 65, Meyer is 53 and Dabo is 47, so let's see how it goes.
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CU Guru [1261]
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Re: So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach
Jul 24, 2017, 10:50 AM
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Those are the dumbest arguments ever. Like saying if tom brady didn't play pats wouldn't have won those Super Bowls or if MJ wasn't on the bulls they wouldn't have won 6 titles. Guess what there is no what if it's just what happen. Everyone can ask what if I can ask what if Kennedy wasn't killed would the Cold War lasted as long? Who knows all we know is what actually happen and that is DW was a tiger that won us a title!
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CU Medallion [55402]
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Re: So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach
Jul 24, 2017, 4:27 PM
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Honestly, IMO, it is possible that we could have beat Bama with Tajh Boyd last year. Regardless of the way the know it all's kicked Tajh around, he was a good QB for our Tigers. If our team would have had the talent then as we do now, I believe that Tajh Boyd could have won us a NC title!!! I just can't agree with anybody that says Tajh was an average QB. Just remember this, our O lines we had with Tajh wasn't near as good as the O lines that DW4 had, Tajh Boyd's athletic ability and brute toughness won a lot of games for us. I can't remember a game that Tajh missed bc of injury. Plus Tajh won and loss with Class, and he remains a great ambassador for Clemson University!!!
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Legend [17599]
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Dabo has outperformed my expectations - he has been blazing
Jul 24, 2017, 10:26 PM
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He is simply the best recruiter in the country along with the coaches in Tuscaloosa or Tallahassee and Dabo had farther to travel. He has upped his game in a hurry from the young man who started as an interim coach. His hires of BV and CM set the tone for this team. Remember we are still running Morris' offense, but these are Dabo's players and this is Dabo's team. His ego is in check and he understands and respects the Defense is BV's.
Could not be happier and prouder, and yes, we are at the pinnacle of the game right now. The National Champions. And without Deshaun Watson, we potentially lose 2-3 games last year even with the outstanding play of our D-Line and our other gutty leaders last year. The margin between winning and losing is just so small. Watson was a difference maker who was sometimes inconsistent in the 1st half but deadly with the game on the line. Thank you Deshaun and all the best in Houston! I have my Texans cap already.
All that said, thanks to the polish Dabo has applied to the program and the resources provided by our generous boosters, Clemson has a real chance to do some damage and make it back to the playoffs once or more in the next 4-5 years. Once we hit the playoffs, we will be confident. We have already reached the summit. Here's to Dabo and this year's team keeping the momentum going ... and to one or more QB's stepping up with some courage and quietly leading the Offense. Christian has the Defense leadership covered! Go Tigers!
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Trainer [29]
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Re: Dabo has outperformed my expectations - he has been blazing
Jul 24, 2017, 11:31 PM
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It's a petty arguement because Dabo did in fact recruit Watson to Clemson. However dabo's records with and without DW4 are telling.
Vs ranked teams. 19-20
W/DW4. 11-3
Without DW4. 8-17
Boyd was a good college qb. Still, there is a tremendous gap between a good college qb and a qb like Watson.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Link
Jul 25, 2017, 10:46 AM
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to a team that won a NC without a great player?
I'll wait...
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CU Guru [1845]
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Re: So there is an argument that Dabo and Clemson never reach
Jul 25, 2017, 12:26 PM
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I loved Tajh but I don't think Clemson gets to where they were without Deshaun. He is the greatest player in program history, even the coaches say it. Dabo compares him to Jordan, Brady and Montana, he took us to that level. Not by himself obviously, but he was the one everybody turned to when the road got tough.
Tajh would not have won @FSU last year, games like that are what Deshaun thrive in and Boyd simply did not. He played good against LSU and OSU in the bowl games, but those games were the last games of the year. No implications, not playing to advance or to win a championship, Tajh couldn't get his guys over the hump. And that's what Deshaun has done his whole life.
The overall talent of the teams were different. Dabo has taken the team to another level, and with that level of play he brought in a completely different level of QB.
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