|
Replies: 23
| visibility 470
|
Heisman Winner [111575]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73752
Joined: 9/10/03
|
So the Elephant in the Room
Aug 1, 2019, 11:35 PM
|
|
Andrew Yang promising $1000 per month to every 18-64 year old American, citing mechanization of labor as a reason for his proposal, but little more than a gimmick to get elected.
Pros
consumer spending goes through the roof creating jobs and new business opportunities.
lifts people out of poverty
could allow working mothers to stay home and raise their children.
cons
3 trillion in additional deficit, nearly doubling government spending. no possible way we can pay for this , despite his being a self described math guru.
disincentive to people's willingness to work, essentially putting the entire country on Welfare.
Plenty people over 65 that need the money more than people of working age
Creates even more of a log jam in our legal immigration system as people would want to come pouring into the country.
inflation
gives employers a reason to cut wages on middle class workers.
thoughts, other than it being a gimmick and a bribe to get elected and would never pass congress.
|
|
|
|
 |
All-TigerNet [10871]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12937
Joined: 4/18/12
|
Re: So the Elephant in the Room
Aug 2, 2019, 12:17 AM
|
|
I wonder what will happen to our workforce as automation is introduced everywhere. Just look at what it’s already done. Less cashiers, less assembly line workers...self driving Uber’s and delivery trucks are probably next. So how do you compete? I think it starts with our education system. More people need to be focused on careers of the future like mechatronics and even healthcare. We need less graduates with useless paper degrees that aren’t qualified to do most job postings. Seems like some solutions are to put a band aid on a bleeding artery. I say go to the source...our future.
I think some colleges and universities should be held to a higher standard on helping graduates find work. The employment of their graduates should effect their bottom line and the funding for respective departments. If you invest that much in education, they should do more to insure you can pay off the debt they incurred. That’d cut out the fat in some of these colleges and universities that offer paper degrees. Just my opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111575]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73752
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: So the Elephant in the Room
Aug 2, 2019, 5:55 AM
|
|
I have read that in the next 10-15 years most of our transportation and warehousing jobs will be fully automated. Amazon has already stolen 30% of the retail jobs, and that trend is continuing. Not clicking 1 day shipping, or avoiding the self checkout lane may spare you some guilt, but this will be an unstoppable force.
Automation was supposed to free mankind from boring, dangerous, and repetitive labor, but unfortunately these gains from our advances in technology are going straight to the top, and an economy can not function nor survive with a 30% unemployment rate. Although I have some rather cynical views on how this will ultimately be addressed if we continue to make poor choices now.
Yang makes some good points, but his plan to pay "reparations" to all workers is a joke. There does need to be a discussion on educating people for the jobs of the future, like computational linguistics, Artificial Intelligence, Industrial Design/ engineering, software development, etc... That is where this money needs to be spent, instead of giving away handouts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15749]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17371
Joined: 2/1/99
|
I’m sure I’ve written this a dozen times, but
Aug 2, 2019, 6:22 AM
|
|
I am not worried about it.
We have been told that something or someone will take our jobs since the 50s. In that time the population has grown immensely, the workforce even more so with women entering, and unemployment is below 4%.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111575]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73752
Joined: 9/10/03
|
you should be
Aug 2, 2019, 6:28 AM
|
|
People that are losing retail jobs are working in warehouses and call centers now. Automation has its eyes set on these jobs next, as well as transportation. Do not think for one second Dominoes is not currently figuring out a way to develop a driver less pizza delivery system and fully automated kitchens, as an example...
And when it comes to fully automated transportation, and people regulated to serving machines, Steven King may have been a prophet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15749]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17371
Joined: 2/1/99
|
What’s the Steven King reference?***
Aug 2, 2019, 7:09 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111575]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73752
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: What’s the Steven King reference?***
Aug 2, 2019, 7:52 AM
|
|
The Movie Maximum over drive which is based on one of his short stories called "Trucks, where a small rural town is tormented and slowly eradicated by cars and trucks that take on on their own intelligence. It leaves only enough of them behind to re fuel and service them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [14470]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 22910
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: So the Elephant in the Room
Aug 2, 2019, 7:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: So the Elephant in the Room ] |
|
americans will adapt. we always do. it wasnt very long ago that i swore i would never buy one of them #### cell phones. now it it attached to me it seems. but no doubt we are heading to different times again and i guess we always will.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [55747]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 35292
Joined: 11/30/98
|
I love Yang. Not the free money part. The intellect.
Aug 2, 2019, 7:41 AM
|
|
He’s right about tech and traditional jobs and stores. I would like to see him be even more blunt - “those jobs and stores are gone and they’re never coming back”.
But universal income probably does not have the benefits he says it would.
That said, we already give away bajillions in disability payments and entitlement programs.
If we wiped the slate clean (it’d never happen) and just cut everyone a check it would eliminate a ton of bureaucracy and probably end up being a wash money wise.
Anyhow, I love that Yang understands the new economy and what it means for the average person. Just wish he’d grow a pair and state it more bluntly.
If the Dems have any hope of competing with Trump their candidate has to talk straight. That’s why Williamson of all people is looking the best so far. A politician who sounds political won’t beat Trump.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95418
Joined: 12/25/09
|
He's a fool who is promising to build a house on...
Aug 2, 2019, 8:38 AM
|
|
sand. Without fundamental education, reading, math and science further technical education will never happen. Our public educational system is not a foundation on which to build. It's exactly what our inner cities are build upon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [119698]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 54467
Joined: 6/24/09
|
All the more reason to require in our classrooms
Aug 2, 2019, 7:45 AM
|
|
CIVICS - so everyone knows HOW and WHY our Constitutional Republic works
FINANCE - how to budget and balance a checkbook
ETHICS - golden rule type stuff
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11630]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9790
Joined: 5/17/02
|
Universal basic income has failed everywhere in Europe
Aug 2, 2019, 7:57 AM
|
|
I'm not aware of any recent experiment that's shown any positive results.
I disagree with 2 of your pros.
It wont lift people out of poverty. The poverty line will move up. Rent will go up, housing prices will go up, etc.
Due to this, it wont let mothers stay home. They'll still have to work.
And LOL on your first Pro. Haven't you argued that the Trump tax cuts did not do this?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111575]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73752
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: Universal basic income has failed everywhere in Europe
Aug 2, 2019, 8:06 AM
|
|
in honesty I was having a tough time finding pros in this and just see it as a campaign gimmick than a realistic plan. And the tax relief that was given to the working class was much less than 1000 per year, not a month. And you are right, market forces would "correct" against this in inflation and reduced wages.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95418
Joined: 12/25/09
|
He's just trying to be competitive in...
Aug 2, 2019, 8:33 AM
|
|
the socialist bidding war. My only issue with this bunch is that some people are taking them seriously. Only a fool would believe any of them are capable of delivering on their promises.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [47750]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30413
Joined: 11/15/99
|
I agree with you that's it a campaign gimmick.
Aug 2, 2019, 9:13 AM
|
|
Doub't he's got a chance to win and most people know this will not work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1907]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 3154
Joined: 11/11/17
|
Re: So the Elephant in the Room
Aug 2, 2019, 9:17 AM
|
|
There is a way to pay for it but the people who will be hit for the most part scream bloody murder on raising taxes on their companies. I think in theory it will come to pass that a UBI will be needed as IT,Robotics and other technologies replace humans on a massive scale. The disrupters of human employment will need to be the very ones hit with tax rates approaching 80% to fund it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17285]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14229
Joined: 12/14/98
|
Social Networking Bots with advanced AI will eventually
Aug 2, 2019, 10:09 AM
|
|
Take over TigerNet Boards.
And none of this will be real. It might already be happening?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15492]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 18413
Joined: 12/10/14
|
Re: So the Elephant in the Room
Aug 2, 2019, 1:14 PM
|
|
18 to 64????
Crap, I turn 65 in November.
Dammmmit!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111575]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73752
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: So the Elephant in the Room
Aug 2, 2019, 1:29 PM
|
|
that means you will be eligible to turn into one of those ###### socialists and I will be paying for you to live for free, silly communist. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15492]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 18413
Joined: 12/10/14
|
Re: So the Elephant in the Room
Aug 2, 2019, 2:43 PM
|
|
This is true comrade, however, back in the 80's the Reagan Administration changed my eligibility for full retirement to 66 yrs of age.
Just another example of being kept down by the man. Er, I mean, Capitalist running dogs!
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1907]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 3154
Joined: 11/11/17
|
Re: So the Elephant in the Room
Aug 2, 2019, 3:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: So the Elephant in the Room ] |
|
SS is a huge pyramid scheme and it sent old Bernie Madoff to prison maybe the govt. should go to prison too. I know exactly what I have paid in and what I will draw, after 3 year what my total input plus employer will be exhausted.I did not pay SS/Medicare for 22 years while living and working overseas but had previousl met the 40 quarters and took a job here when I retired so they are basing it upon my current earnings. So from that point onward someone else is paying for me to draw a check, the spousal benefit allows my wife to get 1/2 of what my monthly check is or hers,whichever is higher. System is beyond broken.
I had never kept up with SS because I figured it would be next to nothing but shazam it is silly what they will send me a month, then 1/2 of that on top for the wife. Now that is gonna keep me in beer, golf and boats till I drop dead for sure. I will fully admit that it should not be this way but until the law is changed I will file and take it. Maybe it just makes up for the stunning taxes9Federal/State) I paid while working overseas while not living in the USA.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111575]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73752
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: So the Elephant in the Room
Aug 2, 2019, 5:15 PM
|
|
And here I just thought is was just top heavy because the Baby Boomer generation has been hitting retirement age, while our rate of population growth has been in decline due to looming economic insecurity. Both my parents live off theirs after losing pretty much everything in the housing collapse, so I have no problem paying into it, knowing full well it might not be there for me down the road.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1907]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 3154
Joined: 11/11/17
|
Re: So the Elephant in the Room
Aug 2, 2019, 5:36 PM
|
|
Well if it gives you any comfort according to graphs I have seen it all starts looking better once us pesky boomers die. Kidding aside this is gonna be a huge problem, neither side seems to want to implement a fix and are just kicking the can down the road while whisling past the graveyard.
Not sure if you know it but the Millenials now make up the largest group in the USA, sucks they came of age when stuff costs so dang much, jobs pay little,debt is high and looming threats abound. It is why I went overseas though, I knew things were not gonna get better and I had to do something to make sure me and mine would always be taken care of no matter what happened. I could see it back in the early 90's.
Sorry to hear that your parents lost all in the great crash, it hurt a lot of folks and most will never recover. Not just houses and savings but health as the stress mounted.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111575]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73752
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: So the Elephant in the Room
Aug 2, 2019, 5:56 PM
|
|
fortunately my dad gets a really nice army pension, he served 2 years as an officer an Vietnam and is doing OK. I have been bank rolling my mom lately. She will be moving down her soon and i will have to find her part time in home care, after putting 6k deposit down on a place for her while i am still renting. All is good, my Boss treats me like the son he never had.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 23
| visibility 470
|
|
|
50
