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All-In [46825]
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Shifty Schiff the blunder of modern times
Jan 31, 2020, 11:27 AM
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Now that Lamar Alexander is siding with the Republicans, the likelihood of calling additional witnesses, the case will soon be drawing to a close.
So let's look at the massive blunder of Adam Schiff.
I firmly believe Schiff thought that he had an open and shut case (which I also believe). That all he had to do was go before the 100 senators, present the cold hard facts of what transpired, and the upper house, not beholden to the whims of the people as his House colleagues are, would surely see this for what it is. A stupider Watergate.
I believe he severely underestimated the Trump Derangement Syndrome of the Republican Party. You have the President's own legal team providing campaign contributions to Mitch McConnell (how anybody can claim impartiality while getting paid by the defendant is beyond me). You have the trial by sound byte. And Schiff actually thought all he had to do was present his side and at least 4 Republicans would not be swayed by the President who literally holds the purse for reelections.
Schiff thought truth would prevail. He thought what was right would guide the upper house.
He was wrong.
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All-In [47750]
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Speaking of impartiality, how can one (or 4 in this case)
Jan 31, 2020, 11:31 AM
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remain impartial when they are running to unseat the defendant?
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All-In [46825]
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Hypocrisy all around
Jan 31, 2020, 11:33 AM
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they should have recused just like Mitch and Lindsey should have recused
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CU Medallion [73569]
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he had no case whatsoever
Jan 31, 2020, 11:35 AM
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even HIS witnesses could not name one crime. There was no crime. There was no there there. What he might have done was probably uncalled for, but it is not enough to impeach a President.
The irony here is. The dems created fake documents on Trump, then leaked it to the FBI as real. The FBI knew it was fake and passed it off as real to the fisa court and his campaign was ASTUALLY spied upon.
Reverse this and say Trump did all of this. Holy ####, the nonstop pounding from every news channel and protests that would ensue.
But meh from all the above.
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All-In [46825]
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I have no idea how old you are
Jan 31, 2020, 11:38 AM
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I always assume you're in your 60's, so you would know better than I, but,
How is this case any different than Watergate? Nixon tried to cheat in the election with domestic sources. Trump was trying to use foreign sources.
Maybe I'm missing how this case is different than Watergate (which was going to end in impeachment and removal, unlike this one)
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CU Medallion [73569]
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lol, i wasnt even born
Jan 31, 2020, 11:39 AM
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but from what little i know. didnt he actually spy on the campaigns? I mean, like putting bugs in rooms?
And then denied, denied, denied and then got caught?
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CU Medallion [73569]
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trump had no spying going on
Jan 31, 2020, 11:41 AM
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he wanted them to investigate, but no spying whatsoever.
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All-In [46825]
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Watergate had an actual crime. There was ZERO crime
Jan 31, 2020, 11:43 AM
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on this #### show
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Had Nixon burned the tapes on the white house lawn
Jan 31, 2020, 2:24 PM
[ in reply to So stupider watergate*** ] |
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like they told him to, there wouldnt be a Watergate. Nixon's ego is what was his demise.
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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Watergate > Monica > Quid Pro Quo
Jan 31, 2020, 12:16 PM
[ in reply to I have no idea how old you are ] |
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At least the way I see it.
Honestly, Clinton can thank Hillary for minimizing the damage from is shenanigans with Monica. America didn't blame Clinton one bit for letting an intern blow him, knowing he was stuck married to a ##### like Hillary. Clinton's was probably the clearest case to prove. Watergate could have been MAYBE, if Nixon hadn't resigned. The proof is nowhere here with Trump. It's an overheard phone call.
Really irrelevant since impeachment will become a rite of passage for any president, from either party, if they get a House run by the opposing party.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I actually think if the dems had not been crying impeachment
Jan 31, 2020, 12:23 PM
[ in reply to he had no case whatsoever ] |
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since day one, this might have gained more traction. I am not drawing a conclusion on the evidence, just stating an opinion.
However, in the mind of the progressive, Aesop's Fables are probably rassist.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: he had no case whatsoever
Feb 3, 2020, 2:25 PM
[ in reply to he had no case whatsoever ] |
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You can argue that what he did was not impeachable, but you can't argue that he did nothing wrong. No matter what Dershowitz said, committing an actual crime isn't necessary to be impeached. Dershowitz is arguable one of the greatest criminal appeals attorneys this country has ever produced. He is a master in a courtroom, few would argue that. But he is not a Constitutional lawyer and is not an expert in the Constitution. Those who are, vehemently disagree with his conclusions.
The problem with the Dems is in how they drafted the Articles. Trump could have been charged with conspiracy, violation of the Federal Impoundment Act, conspiracy to violate Federal Election laws, violation of Federal Campaign Finance laws by paying off Stormy using corporate funds, obstruction of justice during the Mueller probe and several others. Instead, they chose "abuse of office' which is a very vague and open-ended charge. Piszing in the Rose garden, to some could be 'abuse of office'.
This is the first time in our history that an impeachment trial,, whether it was a President or Federal Judges, allowed no new witnesses or documentation was entered into the record at the trial.
And yes, the Dems have been out to stop Trump since taking office. Much like when Mitch McConnell announced after Obama's election that "The Senate's number 1 priority is to make this a one-term President.
All in all, it's a very good day to be ashamed of both Dems and Republicans. They don't represent us as much as they represent themselves.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: Shifty Schiff the blunder of modern times
Jan 31, 2020, 11:40 AM
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I COMPLETELY disagree.
I think anybody who's remotely paid attention to the iron hold Mitch McConnell has held on the Senate knew that this case was dead upon arrival in the Senate.
He gave it the old college try because he felt he had to, and hey, maybe something would have developed - witnesses, perhaps, or enough GOP Senators breaking ranks for go secret ballot. But I think he knew those odds were not good.
Mostly what I think he wanted to do was make the GOP own Trump and his misdeeds...which they are about to do.
The ultimate jury was always going to be the 2020 election...and if you look at the state-by-state trends, they're absolutely terrible against Trump right now, especially in the key battleground states that carried him in 2016. Now those Senate races are inextricably tied to the national election; in circling the wagons and resolutely defending Trump, his fortunes are now their fortunes...for good or for ill.
If Trump can't shift momentum - and he hasn't moved the needle positively in the first 3+ years of his office - they're going to drown with him.
He's got to go get new sources of support...which means he's going to have to shift tactics. But when have we ever seen Trump switch tactics instead of just doubling and tripling down on his old ones?
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CU Medallion [73569]
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i guess you missed the 2016 election
Jan 31, 2020, 11:43 AM
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he shifted his resources to states that no pub had won in decades. I'd say that is shifting. But carry on
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Hall of Famer [24764]
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I doubt those independent populists are going to see it
Jan 31, 2020, 11:47 AM
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the same this time around... As a clarification, I like some of T-Rump's policies... I just abhor his "I'm the Greatest" persona and his elitist antics...
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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then you must have HATED Barry
Jan 31, 2020, 12:21 PM
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I just abhor his "I'm the Greatest" persona and his elitist antics...
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Orange Blooded [2019]
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Re: Shifty Schiff the blunder of modern times
Jan 31, 2020, 9:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: Shifty Schiff the blunder of modern times ] |
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You are oblivious to what is going on around you. The polls tell a lie. Just like I told my wife in 2016. I don't care what the polls say. I trust my eyes and my eyes see people lined up for hours on the cold or rain to fill large venues to hear him talk. These people got out and voted. Then you see people like Hilary or Biden now that just don't inspire people.
2020 is going to be a blowout Trump win! You are going to see a massive shift in minority votes towards Trump. They can't say it out loud but they're changing.
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Rock Defender [53]
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You're the first person I’ve seen attempt to
Jan 31, 2020, 11:45 AM
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Hall of Famer [24764]
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Alexander is a pragmatist. "Let the people decide". Done.***
Jan 31, 2020, 11:50 AM
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All-In [42151]
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Re: You're the first person I’ve seen attempt to
Jan 31, 2020, 2:18 PM
[ in reply to You're the first person I’ve seen attempt to ] |
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Y'all blindly support everything this president does and take no issue with any wrongdoing whatsoever, and you think that's not some kind of Trump Derangement Syndrome?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Once again you mistake my support of Trump's policies
Jan 31, 2020, 2:27 PM
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All-In [42151]
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So, does this mean...
Jan 31, 2020, 2:33 PM
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You oppose his horrific behavior, divisiveness, and cronyism, like his violation of the emoluments clause? Just a supporter of the policies?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: So, does this mean...
Jan 31, 2020, 2:41 PM
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Orange Blooded [2019]
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Re: You're the first person I’ve seen attempt to
Jan 31, 2020, 9:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: You're the first person I’ve seen attempt to ] |
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And you all blindly go against whatever he says. How many Dems have been put in situations recently where there done 180's on positions just to take the opposing side. They hate for Trump is crazy and it's not policy driven. Dems would sell their souls to remove him. In their minds the ends justify the means.
Trust me when I say I hated, and I mean hated Obama. The difference is it was all policy driven. I was so tired of hearing you're just a racist. We are not racists. We can hate progressive policies. Google lifecycle of a democracy (written in the 1800's) and you will see that progressive policies will end any democracy. We people realize they can vote themselves free stuff from the treasury a democracy will cease to exist. We will either implode or have another revolution(civil)
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All-In [42151]
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Welcome to the party
Feb 3, 2020, 9:38 AM
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So, let's correct a few things here: My dislike for Trump is policy-driven, but it's also his blatant disrespect for the Constitution and fellow Americans. He has spouted hate and divisiveness toward many Americans. Why do I take it personally? Because when he attacks people I care about in the journalism field by calling them enemies of America (fascist playbook move), I take issue with that.
And for the record, I thought Obama was a bad president.
But if you are under the false impression that Trump is a conservative, or that he's fiscally responsible, you may want to examine his policies a little closer and also examine his wasteful spending.
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Oculus Spirit [93667]
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Re: Shifty Schiff the biggest political blunder in history.
Jan 31, 2020, 11:59 AM
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Founding the impeachment process on pure politics, not gaining any support in the house from pubs then sending his political hack job to the senate thinking that pubs would ignore the political hack job he did in the house and support him by turning their backs on politics and a POTUS sure to win in Nov was a true blunder.
The only possible explanation is the they wanted Bernie off the campaign trail to confound his success in IOWA. If it's not that I'd like to know why Pelosi let this happen to the democrat party.
Latest polls show Trump is winning against every dem in Iowa and beating Bernie by five points.
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Hall of Famer [24764]
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Pre-consolidation... Those numbers are going to change.***
Jan 31, 2020, 12:06 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Oculus Spirit [93667]
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Do you believe pubs won't take the house this fall?
Jan 31, 2020, 12:44 PM
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I wonder if she knew she'd lose the house and was using scorched earth tactic. Of course that's outrageous so I went with the locking Bernie up until the Iowa vote is in.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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hey! wait a minute...
Jan 31, 2020, 12:19 PM
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that ain't the definition of Trump Derangement Syndrome!
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All-In [28802]
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That's a very partisan version of the mistake he made
Jan 31, 2020, 12:48 PM
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His biggest mistake was overreach, including not relying on the strongest, most basic argument he had. He should've spent less time arguing that certain things were crimes and more time arguing that what we all know happened (that Trump tried to withhold aid to Ukraine to benefit himself personally) is worth impeaching and removal from office. Sometimes, it's better not to make the maximal case because people won't be as distracted from your strongest argument by other, more controversial arguments. But the Democrats' TDS won't let them be anything but maximalists.
Some Republicans clearly are suffering from TDS, but you've managed not to really describe it. The ones who refuse to admit that Trump ever does anything wrong, including that using foreign policy to his personal benefit is a bad thing, and who believe that even entertaining criticism of Trump proves you're corrupt, are toeing up to the borderline of insanity. But some of that is a reaction to Democrat TDS.
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Ok Mitt Romney......I mean Cam***
Jan 31, 2020, 2:25 PM
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All-In [28802]
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So you've got the TDS, or what?
Jan 31, 2020, 4:35 PM
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Sometimes I wonder if these stances people take where they treat Trump as infallible are just about trolling the libs, and I get that. It's fun. But then these people never seem to be able to get serious, and I wonder if they've really lost their minds. Which one are you?
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Shifty Schiff the blunder of modern times
Jan 31, 2020, 2:40 PM
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Schiff new this was dead upon arrival.
The only bipartisan support in the house was not to impeach trump. Schiff sounds smart, but he has been wrong on pretty much every topic involving Trump. He has 0 credibility. Anyone that trusts anything that comes out of his math has their head in the sand.
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Lot o points [155901]
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Lulz.....multiple paragraphs to ultimately say
Jan 31, 2020, 4:57 PM
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"Shiff was right because I agree with him and Republicans are stoopid because I disagree with them".
That's some hard-hitting insight right there.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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You are completely wrong about that.
Jan 31, 2020, 5:49 PM
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The Senate Republicans were never going to vote to impeach the president. Everybody knew that.
No, Shifty Schiff did a masterful job and Democrats are playing a long game. Republican have pissed in their pants to keep their ##### warm.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: You are completely wrong about that.
Jan 31, 2020, 6:06 PM
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110%er [8984]
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i think they should have started with naming a crime
Jan 31, 2020, 6:17 PM
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like trump violated section X paragraph 6 of the blankety blankety act, and here is the evidence to prove it
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Rock Defender [53]
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The 2nd one of obstruction of Congress was doomed from the
Jan 31, 2020, 6:22 PM
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Lot o points [155901]
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how tight is that noose, enlightened one?***
Jan 31, 2020, 10:33 PM
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Orange Blooded [2019]
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Re: Shifty Schiff the blunder of modern times
Jan 31, 2020, 9:36 PM
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For starters, Dems knew this wasn't going anywhere. They are a crafty, sneaky group. They are all about PR. This whole thing popped up just by coincidence when the FISA abuse came out. That FISA abuse makes Watergate look like kindergartner stuff by the way. Way, way, way beyond anything Trump is accused of doing. Then Pelosi holds it until when? Right before the dem primaries start so Warren and Bernie both have to sit and listen to Schiff ramble and repeat for days. This allowed Biden sole campaigning. You know they I scared to death Bernie may win again and they'll have to pull some #### like they did last election. All they really want to do is drag it out.
Now do you really think Biden did nothing wrong? You really don't think he sold influence and contracts? So we all know it should be investigated. Period! If Biden didn't do anything wrong there would be nothing to investigate. Trump is actually the whistleblower and they were trying to silence him.
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