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Serious question, for those capable.
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Serious question, for those capable.


Feb 28, 2019, 9:58 PM

Usually on this board we throw stones at either with the crazy idea that we'll change each others minds. Conservatives find and post stories about some crazy woman and say "see, look how dumb libs are!". Liberals on here, including myself have done pretty much the same to try to show how wrong conservatives are. It's a foolish endeavor for which I am the chief offender.

So I was thinking today, regardless of ideology, there are some pretty sharp people on hear and I'd like to here some serious thoughts on this question.

Suppose you had the power to fix American Healthcare. Whatever changes you come up with be adopted.

Let's not call each other names or try to win style points. Seriously, what are your ideas for fixing this problem.

I'll start. First and foremost I think that the Healthcare industry, including Pharmaceutical companies operate outside of the basic rules of a free market. They control the market, have little to no competition and therefore have not incentive to lower prices. First I would repeal the ban on Medicare negotiating for lower drug prices. It's illegal for them to do this...because of both parties. Further, I would remove the ban on importing cheaper drugs from Canada in an effort to bring about real price competition.

This is a serious question not the beginning of an argument. What would you do if you had the power?

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Re: Serious question, for those capable.


Feb 28, 2019, 11:41 PM

Sounds good to me.

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Focus on Heath Care for Veterans and illegal immigrants


Mar 1, 2019, 7:32 AM

as one on my first priorities. I would:

- have all illegal immigrants AND those who are here legally and receive any source of aid from US Citizens through government aid be subject to the Health Care that is provided through the organization known as the Veterans Administration.

-have all honorably discharged veterans currently forced to use the VA Administration for service related disability, or even general health care, be provided the choice of using VA Admin or private heath care services under all heath care needs. At no extra cost to them.

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John 3:16; 14:1-6


promote a healthier culture


Mar 1, 2019, 7:41 AM

people eating better an exercising would go a long way to improving outcomes and out overall costs. And reward doctors for positive outcomes, not for keeping people permanently sick on medications.

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THIS^^^


Mar 1, 2019, 9:06 AM

Well, that's 2 things I agree with you on.


End government subsidies in healthcare and insurance, pass a law eliminating pre-existing condition BS, take marijuana off of all drug schedules, make opiates and benzos schedule 1, and kill big pharma subsidies. Break the system, streamline it, and make it more profitable to find actual cures than to string sick people along or profit from addiction.

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Allow insurance companies to compete across state lines.***


Mar 1, 2019, 7:49 AM



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Re: Allow insurance companies to compete across state lines.***


Mar 1, 2019, 8:15 AM

I am not against this per say, but I have yet to hear a good reason for it. The con is the vast amount of additional paper work, employee training, licensing, etc.. that would be required from healthcare providers to not only honor policies in their region, but potentially all policies across the country from different states with different laws.. it is already a bureaucratic billing nightmare that could get exponentially worse.

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The best reason is increased competition which in theroy


Mar 1, 2019, 8:27 AM

would drive down prices.

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Re: The best reason is increased competition which in theroy


Mar 1, 2019, 8:41 AM

they are the exact same insurance companies across state lines conforming to different state laws, are they supposed to compete with themselves?

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So fix the laws where they all play by the same rules.


Mar 1, 2019, 10:24 AM

I don;t understand the reluctance to tackle that part of it. Obama certainly left it out of both ARRA and ACA--on purpose.

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Re: So fix the laws where they all play by the same rules.


Mar 1, 2019, 6:37 PM


I don;t understand the reluctance to tackle that part of it. Obama certainly left it out of both ARRA and ACA--on purpose.



You are exactly right. I remember Pelosi being asked why Medicare (the worlds largest of drug purchasers) still couldn't negotiate with the drug manufacturers, her response was "well we were able to 5 out of 6 of what we wanted".

This problem spans political parties. California was trying to change the law so they're state plans could negotiate prices and the pharmaceutical companies spent $136 million in advertising and lobbying to get it defeated.

You guys all know what the problem is. I appreciate the well thought out answers to my original post. Thank you for that!

Now, I think we all agree on the solutions. We have a group of people left and right who have problems understanding or agreeing with each other...but they all agree on solutions for this particular problem. That is very, very powerful. Very powerful!

If we all agree on these solutions then it's fair to say that most Americans agree as well. How could we then, effect this change?

Where would we start???

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Re: So fix the laws where they all play by the same rules.


Mar 2, 2019, 8:21 AM [ in reply to So fix the laws where they all play by the same rules. ]

why not nationalize the insurance companies, while we are changing a bunch of laws an all.

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Re: Serious question, for those capable.


Mar 1, 2019, 8:14 AM

We need more Nurse Practitioners, and all states need to give them full prescription rights. They can do most of the traditional diagnosis work that doctors do at one fifth the cost.

Also, the billing system needs to be simplified.

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Re: Serious question, for those capable.


Mar 1, 2019, 9:08 AM

Under the currant method drugs are promoted with pharma kickbacks, wouldnt that just encourage these nurses to engage in profit chasing by prescribing the drugs with the most spiffs and kickbacks? Doctors do this of course, but wouldn't this compound the problem?

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I like where your heads at Felix.


Mar 1, 2019, 8:16 AM

I work in healthcare and think the lack of competition on the pharma side is a result of our FDA process. It cost an absolute fortune to get a drug or product approved in this country. However, once one company spends that fortune- everyone else can get approval for a fraction of the cost. There is a period of time where these drugs or products can be protected under patent laws. Without that protected time period, you would have no innovation or progress if you let secondary companies undercut the primary pioneers. I don’t know exactly what the solution is on this side, but thought I would share what I believe as the root of the problem.



Even on the clinic side of things, prices and cost are hidden from the consumer because of different payers (private insurance, Medicare/ medicaid) there’s little completion and no transparency there either. If a Dr tells you to get a CT scan- he tells you where to go and price is never discussed. You can’t call around and shop the CT scan, you can’t negotiate prices, you have no control because this is not a free market either. This, in my opinion, is because of CON’s (certificates of need) required by our govt to open any kind of healthcare facility. Govt is controlling competition similar to the infamous medallion system to taxis in NY I guess... no medallion- no healthcare facility.

I also agree with opening up insurance companies over state lines.

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This.. You've got to streamline the FDA bureaucracy


Mar 1, 2019, 9:53 AM

These drug companies are having to pay millions and waste years trying to get a new drug to market. Their prices are out of control, but they have to recoup the R&D money.

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GO TIGERS!!


The FDA is also an extremely political organization which


Mar 1, 2019, 10:16 AM

is the opposite of what is should be.

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Shut up stupid


Mar 1, 2019, 9:06 AM

but seriously

Costs are the problem.

I like your ideas. If we decide to go free market, allow insurance companies to go across state lines, bring in drugs from Canada, so forth and so on.

But if we really want to go ahead and solve it, universal health care. It amazes me that every other first world country can provide it but the United States with the largest economy in the world just can't afford it.

Bull ####.

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I like your funny words magic man


Re: Shut up stupid


Mar 1, 2019, 9:20 AM

I am convinced you have never taken any type of economics class in your life. "Universal" government programs lead to rationing, rent control, price floors, and price ceilings. They work for a bit, and everyone received the same level of product or service, but that diminishes at an exponential rate the longer the system is in place. While everyone will still continue to receive the same level of care, they will all receive equally less the longer the system continues.

This is due to the fact that the system cannot seek profit and grow where the resources are the richest. Its like saying "everyone in this country must plant a peach tree in their backyard and each tree must produce 50 peaches per year regardless of climate, weather, etc." Some places will be able to do this successfully, other places will not. There will always be economic disproportions, and trying to artificially create equity will increase cost, decrease efficiency, and ultimately result in less for everyone.

Universal healthcare totally ignores crucial facets of economics, such as diminishing returns, competitive advantage, equilibrium, etc. Its one of those things that "works in a laboratory", but doesnt work in the wild.

We need true competition. We need to get government out of healthcare and allow competition. Stop allowing drug companies to pump their drug prices and sell drugs on a speculative market system. Allow Canadian drugs to be sold here, end the Martin Shkreli racket that is modern pharma.

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Doesn't work in the wild?


Mar 1, 2019, 9:23 AM

So literally EVERY developed country in the world but us has a universal health care system that doesn't work?

I understand the other side of the spectrum. It's two opposing solutions to one problem. Complete free market competition or universal health care. Both are solutions.

But the idea that universal health care "doesn't work" is ludicrous

I'm too busy for all of these edits: The fact is BOTH are viable solutions to the problem. My only concern for complete free market competition in health care is the last time that happened we had cocaine and heroin in most of our cough syrup. Universal Health Care has EVERY DEVELOPED COUNTRY ON EARTH as a test to see if it works. And so far, it does.


Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®


Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®

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I like your funny words magic man


Our free market healthcare system is


Mar 1, 2019, 10:22 AM

what is broken, too many profit centers, and ever expanding at that. Insurers and administrators approach is focused on how to squeeze the most $ out of the system we have.

Take 5 out of the top 10 countries that have successful universal healthcare systems and study how they can apply best in the US. There are plenty of blue prints out there, use them.

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If universal healthcare is fundamentally broken,


Mar 1, 2019, 9:34 AM [ in reply to Re: Shut up stupid ]

why do other countries that have universal healthcare have lower health costs and healthier populations?

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Don't you know? Because you have


Mar 1, 2019, 9:37 AM

to sit in the waiting room before seeing a doctor.

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I like your funny words magic man


first read that as "COOTS are the problem", and was all lik


Mar 1, 2019, 9:47 AM [ in reply to Shut up stupid ]



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For starters, follow the Constitution...


Mar 1, 2019, 9:31 AM

repeal any and all federal laws regulating healthcare industries, including insurance. That power is not granted to the federal government and therefore falls to the states.

States can have their own systems/regulations. Some may choose universal healthcare. Some may choose to allow private insurance. Some may allow drugs to be purchased in Canada...and on and on. See where that gets us and start improving from there.

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Re: Serious question, for those capable.


Mar 1, 2019, 12:43 PM

I started this new Tigernet drinking game where you take a shot every time Felix makes a post about both sides/both parties.

There have been five fatalities so far.

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Health care...easy


Mar 2, 2019, 8:00 AM

You want it, pay for it. Stay outtamyfucking pocket to pay for the brokedicks who don't have it because they pay $250 for cable, internet, roku etc. and have 3 different gaming platforms and spend hundreds a month on new buys.

-Tesla, PhD

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I've been wrong two times, but this isn't one of them.


Re: Serious question, for those capable.


Mar 4, 2019, 8:47 AM

Health care is a tricky issue to get lower costs. Many will not like what must be done to achieve it.

1- Selling across State lines. Well folks the same Companies basically insure in all States already but must comply with different State Laws. To get any benefit you must Nationally have a standard all companies can sell to for it to work. Takes away State rights for those Constitutionalists. Even Balm got that point right. You will have to have a Federal mandate on this to even have a hope of it working to lower any costs.

2- Canada does not allow advertising of drugs as 1 way to lower those costs. I would tend to agree with that idea as your doctor should tell you what you need,not an advertising guy.

3- Tort reform to limit liabilities on drugs and malpractice. One cannot justify allowing huge settlements if one wants to lower costs. Depending upon speciality and location insurance can cost upwards of $100k a year

4- Drugs in general need to allow the manufacturer unlimited rights to manufacture as R&D costs must be recouped and a profit made to fund other drugs.Government can and should be granted powers to limit gouging of end users by drug companies. Plus if you limit liabilities and eleiminate advertising they would naturally be lower.

5- Not sure how one gets around the Doctor salaries since they do tend to have really high student debt levels, up to $400k in cases. One cannot tell them they have no right to charge a certain amount when buried under that debt. My GP must bill $5k per week just to cover his costs of his practice before he makes a dime, not counting debt payments to boot.

6- Medical testing machines cost huge amounts to buy and operate. You will have to downsize the numbers and accept long wait times for scans,MRI and other tests.

People want to think there is an easy fix but they are sadly mistaken. This issue is 20% of GDP and must be done in a manner that does not disrupt the economy, quality of care and a myriad of other issues. To say Medicare for all given what it would take in taxation levels and the need to have supplemental coverage for items not covered is daunting.

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