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110%er [6153]
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Dabo and Joey Batson ...
Feb 18, 2014, 12:28 PM
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Since being hired as HC, Dabo has shown no particular hesitation to get rid of coaches he feels are not getting the job done.
He's shown a willingness to not only get rid of ineffective coaches, but to go after the very best he could find as replacements.
So with this in mind, what possible incentive could Dabo have to just hang on to an "ineffective" (according to critics) strength & conditioning coach if the criticisms were valid and it was putting Dabo's program and career at risk??
Why would he do it?
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Say what you will about the coots, but
Feb 18, 2014, 12:33 PM
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their strength and conditioning program has really turned around in recent years.
my coot boss showed me a youtube video of their winter workouts and I would love to see our program incorporate some of that. Not only do some of those exercises look like a ton of fun, but it brings a competitive edge to things.
For all I know our program could already be doing some of it, but youtube south carolina winter workout 2013
(would link it but can't access youtube)
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Scout Team [185]
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"For all I know...." Maybe that sums it up? ******
Feb 18, 2014, 12:58 PM
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CU Medallion [61526]
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Once I get off work and can access youtube, I will get back
Feb 18, 2014, 1:07 PM
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to you about it
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CU Medallion [61526]
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Watch with an empty stomach.***
Feb 18, 2014, 1:09 PM
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Oh boy, I can't wait.
Feb 18, 2014, 1:10 PM
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Stay by your computer for my reaction
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All-In [26322]
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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Yes but they haven't won at the LOS the past 2 years
Feb 18, 2014, 12:38 PM
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For the past two seasons they couldn't run on us yet we ran at will on them. Our depleted secondary is what got us beat last year, as well as not running the ball, and we screwed ourselves this year with the turnovers and again for getting away with running the ball even though Hot Rod had something like 100+ yards on 15 carries
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All-In [37023]
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From the results we are seeing
Feb 18, 2014, 12:38 PM
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Maybe, just maybe Batson wasn't the issue?!?!?
I mean I saw us line up and out power Jawja and LSU and OSU with Batson in charge of S&C. I think it was more direction of the program. Dabo told us he wanted to be more physical where i think Bowden was more finesse.
Just my opinion though
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Thank you for that incredibly well thought out opinion, dave***
Feb 18, 2014, 12:39 PM
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Oculus Spirit [96805]
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Blind squirrel....nut....yada yada***
Feb 18, 2014, 12:44 PM
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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You had me at
Feb 18, 2014, 12:45 PM
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nut
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Oculus Spirit [96805]
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That's exactly what lbu said***
Feb 18, 2014, 12:50 PM
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CU Medallion [61526]
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Is that you, Sams?***
Feb 18, 2014, 1:08 PM
[ in reply to You had me at ] |
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Varsity [219]
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ask Sammy!
Feb 18, 2014, 12:39 PM
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Watkins is preparing for the draft at Performance Compound along with former South Carolina standouts Vic Hampton, Bruce Ellington and Kelcy Quarles.
“Coming here, I am thinking, ‘I might get faster, I might not,’?” Watkins said. “In two weeks, I can tell I am 10 times more flexible. I am working on muscles we didn’t work on (in college), different stretches, different workouts.”
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110%er [7459]
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1) they workout as much in 1 day at those camps
Feb 18, 2014, 2:58 PM
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as the NCAA allows in 1 week--- it's a job now 2) exactly where did you see Sammy's strength or flexibility being an issue-- was it when he ran over the UGA safety,the MD DB or carried 4 OSU players to the first down marker or was it when he blew past the Syracuse, UVA, or OSU secondaries or when he out jumped the DB for OSU by about a foot and caught the ball at its highest point for a TD(with a lower leg injury I might add)-- just curious?? 3) that article you are referring to was written by Josh the Coot Kendall 4)we'll see where Sammy gets drafted and we'll see if he can break the 4.27 he ran while at CU--hope he can, that means he's been working hard to get better
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Sammy is not the best example
Feb 18, 2014, 12:43 PM
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Of our poor S&C program.
Pick a better one.
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Varsity [219]
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Re: Sammy is not the best example
Feb 18, 2014, 12:47 PM
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LOL.
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110%er [8681]
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Re: Sammy is not the best example
Feb 18, 2014, 12:54 PM
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what about how our 235 lb DE regularly makes OTs, that are 60 pounds heavier, his bich, or how a 290 DT regularly commands double teams from 2 o-linemen that are usually 20 pounds heavier or how about that we had an all american center even though he only weighed about 265.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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The man needs an answer. Just think if he was more flexible
Feb 18, 2014, 3:21 PM
[ in reply to Re: Sammy is not the best example ] |
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at Clemson he might have made All-American every year.
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Varsity [219]
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Re: Sammy is not the best example
Feb 18, 2014, 12:49 PM
[ in reply to Sammy is not the best example ] |
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Point being, to get to the next level we need to kick down the door in S&C...Batson is not the answer...great guy, loyal, ok job, but....not going to take the next step with his system....no bashing,,,
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Not bashing, but we need to fire him
Feb 18, 2014, 12:52 PM
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I would hate to see you bashing.
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Enthusiast [139]
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nail on the head , Joey has been in place 17 years and
Feb 18, 2014, 12:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: Sammy is not the best example ] |
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has not fundamentally improved over that time.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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and your evidence for this?***
Feb 18, 2014, 12:59 PM
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Enthusiast [139]
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every NFL scouting report on our players
Feb 18, 2014, 1:12 PM
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our players on game day getting pushed around, some of the best recruiting in the history of the program has been negated by strength, weight and training staff issues. You want a list of names?
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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yes please***
Feb 18, 2014, 1:12 PM
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: every NFL scouting report on our players
Feb 18, 2014, 1:19 PM
[ in reply to every NFL scouting report on our players ] |
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U are wasting your time!! I have been on this for 5-7 years but no improvement!!
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Idk Sammy's forearms look twice as big as his freshman year
Feb 18, 2014, 12:52 PM
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I think he is also doing a little extra self selling for obvious reasons.
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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And at least two of the early enrollees
Feb 18, 2014, 12:56 PM
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Mentioned S&C as one of the biggest transitions coming to Clemson.
Besides didn't Bo Jackson say he never lifted weights.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Of course it's a huge transition
Feb 18, 2014, 1:02 PM
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most high school S&C is horrible and has outdated or insufficient equipment. Moving to ANY college level S&C program should be a big transition, even if it's Furman or Charleston Southern.
And it was Herschel who never lifted weights until college.
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All-In [27366]
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Re: And at least two of the early enrollees
Feb 18, 2014, 1:04 PM
[ in reply to And at least two of the early enrollees ] |
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Good idea to get rid of Batson and go after the S and C coach at LSU. There is a team that is really in shape to play. We might even be able to run the fast, no huddle offense if our OL was better conditioned. You guys aren't for real.
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CU Medallion [60205]
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we really need to work on those SEC cramps more
Feb 18, 2014, 1:07 PM
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those are potential game-changing events there.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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SEC players aren't flexible enough except hitting the ground
Feb 18, 2014, 3:25 PM
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with "cramps". LOL!!!! Hopefully Batson will take it easy on them next time.
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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I'm pretty sure Bo said
Feb 18, 2014, 1:10 PM
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He never lifted weights through his college career. Was mostly a body weight exercise guy I think.
But some of these recruits come from college factories. I would imagine they have decent S&C programs or regimens. I think Artavis said he was already waking up at 5am to train.
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Yes please a list
Feb 18, 2014, 1:13 PM
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nm
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Enthusiast [139]
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you will get it, takes a lot of time
Feb 18, 2014, 2:19 PM
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already gone through the majority of the analysis and there is a very common theme.
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Didn't Brandon Thompson start for the bengals
Feb 18, 2014, 1:20 PM
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Andre Branch came on strong for the Jags. Nuk taken in the 1st had a good rookie season but Tony Pauline thought CU players got pushed around at the college level. Ask Shazier how easy it is to push Sammy Watkins around.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Didn't Brandon Thompson start for the bengals
Feb 18, 2014, 1:50 PM
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1) Brandon Thompson didn't start for the Bengals
2) Andre Branch was named starter in preseason, and then benched because he was basically ineffective. I think he made his way out of the doghoues by the end of the year.
3) Sammy Watkins has been a physical freak since the day he stepped on campus. Attributing his success to S&C is disingenuous.
I think there are a lot of factors that go into S&C, injuries, etc...but those are probably not the best examples.
It's a real concern and an obviously contentious debate. But for every example of a physical freak, you have a Rennie Moore story (5th year senior who couldn't break the 270 mark after 5 years in the program) and Rendrick Taylor story (physical freak who was put in a regimen that rendered him unable to turn his head by the time he left). Then you've got guys like Jarvis Jenkins, Daquan Bowers and Jacoby Ford who are chronically injured - which MAY OR MAY NOT BE a result of S&C.
Batson doesn't necessarily need to be fired, but I think it's dishonest to dismiss either side of the argument.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I'm going to have to disagree on a few points here
Feb 18, 2014, 2:05 PM
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1) Brandon Thompson is listed as the Bengals starting DT.
http://www.bengals.com/team/depth-chart.html
2) Branch struggled at the start but still finished with 6 sacks (2nd on the team).
3) Sammy Watkins does not truck the Georgia safety his freshman year.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I'm going to have to disagree on a few points here
Feb 18, 2014, 2:43 PM
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1) Geno Atkins is most definitely the Bengals starting 3tech, regardless of what that chart says.
2) Got me here, kind of. For some reason, I was thinking about his rookie season. At any rate, he's still been relegated to a pass rushing specialist despite the relatively high draft pick for the same problems in getting hooked in the run game that we saw here.
3) I have no idea.
This S&C thing is like groundhog day for me, because everyone seems to think there is some mass conspiracy against Joey Batson, or everyone seems to think that Batson has made some sort of deal with the devil to stick around despite all the changes. As many posters can point to NFL success stories and improvement sagas to illustrate their point, so can the other side when it comes to unfulfilled expectations.
It wouldn't be an issue if SCAR hadn't started beating us the year after they revamped their S&C staff and philosophy...with an eerily similar level of talent.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Better S&C...or better pharmacists?
Feb 18, 2014, 2:49 PM
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You can't brush up against an S.E.C. player without getting deer antler juice all over your sleeve.
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Enthusiast [139]
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whatever it takes to win.***
Feb 18, 2014, 2:50 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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That's the spirit
Feb 18, 2014, 3:00 PM
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Let's go ahead and put health and safety below winning. The performance of 18-21 year old in a sport is what is truly important.
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Enthusiast [139]
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show me the safety aspects of your argument
Feb 18, 2014, 3:04 PM
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because everywhere I look these guys live longer and way healthier than your average American male.
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CU Guru [1701]
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Why are you the one guy who bitchess about Joey batson?
Feb 18, 2014, 1:41 PM
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Did Joey batson do something to you? Did he bully you at some point? There is help I promise, you should talk to your mom I'm sure she would happily call joeys mom and get her to tell him to stop being mean to little DueWest. We have a great s&c staff. Much better than most teams we play including the "mighty" SECheat teams, do you or any of the other people who whine about Joey batson realize how incredibly hard it is to get into the shape to run the type of offense we do? And not just offense, defense must be in excellent shape too because a lot of times the offense moves so fast the defense only gets a few minutes rest. Please find something else to complain about this subject is null and void.
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110%er [6153]
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Uh ... I've never mentioned Joey Batson in ANY other post
Feb 18, 2014, 2:05 PM
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... not ever.
My post history is pretty easy to check.
I'm tempted to ask if you're stupid or lazy or both, because if you took just a moment to READ the post I made today, you'd see it's actually in SUPPORT of Joey Batson.
So find some other poster more appropriate for your rant.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Bewm***
Feb 18, 2014, 2:06 PM
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Yeah look of the Brandon Thompson article on SBnation
Feb 18, 2014, 2:37 PM
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They were very happy with him. Thats saying something when he was replacing one of the best DTs in the league in Geno Atkins.
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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S&C can't make you more talented
Feb 18, 2014, 3:02 PM
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I'm not sure if we didn't just have a stretch where we weren't as talented as we wanted. Now we are losing undeniable talent. A few of whom are rapidly climbing mock drafts.
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Enthusiast [139]
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Proper S&C can improve an athletes genetic advantage
Feb 18, 2014, 3:10 PM
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but it cannot make up for poor genetics would be a true statement.
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Orange Blooded [2760]
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Your premise is wrong
Feb 18, 2014, 3:12 PM
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Danny Pearman is still coaching. While he is a very good TE coach, he is a pathetic recruiter and awful Special Teams Coach.
But remember, Dabo is god and no one can question anything about anything regarding Clemson football unless you're 1) an idiot or 2) a coot.
Batson is a most likely decent S&C Coach but falls into a philosophy about strength training that some/many find behind the curve. Based on some of the videos I have seen of Clemson's weight lifting, I have serious doubts that he is the best we can do. It is important to note that "strength" is not as critical as "functional strength" for a specific position. Batson is not known as an innovator, which doesn't mean he isn't good; just not a leader in his industry. Another (seemingly justifiable) opinion is that too many guys put on "bad" weight, lose a step, etc. Some think it is the S&C, some think it is just the player, some don't look at it seriously.
My position would be to take some of the crazy amount of money we are throwing at the football program and get an outside, non-biased assessment of our S&C, nutrition program, trainers/physicians, etc. I think it is a rational step given the key roles each of these play in the development of all student athletes.
But what do I know, I'm not Dabo.
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Associate AD [800]
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He is effective..***
Feb 18, 2014, 3:16 PM
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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I'm sure
Feb 18, 2014, 3:20 PM
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We invest millions in coaching and buildings, investing in these athletes, only to overlook whatever it is they do in the weight room. Dabo has a vision for the team and I'm sure he knows how Batson's style compliments individuals, team philosophy, how his program compares to other universities and if an availible replacement would be an upgrade. Ohio State is considered an elite program in every aspect and we were faster and stronger. I'm going to need better analysis than that common sense before I buy into a fire Batson campaign that is probably held over from the all-round mediocre Bowden era.
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