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YOUR BALANCE
Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"
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Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"


Jun 8, 2020, 12:00 PM

protests during the National Anthem at football games. The Kneelers can claim they are not disrespecting the flag all they want, but they know that that is EXACTLY what they are doing. I offer this analogy.

I go out and buy a brand new gun. I take said gun and shoot you with it. But, when the police arrive, I simply tell them that I was not shooting at you, I was just testing whether my brand new gun was working properly. You just happened to be in the way. I'm sure that would make it all good, right? I mean, I had no intention of shooting you, after all. It was an unintended consequence, which was just misunderstood.

The NFL Kneelers are very well compensated professionals. If they wanted to reach a large audience during an NFL game, they could have pooled their monies, bought a lot of commercial time, and stated very clearly the purpose of their protest. Their kneeling was done knowing beforehand that it would anger a large portion of the population. It did more to raise completely new, unrelated issues than it ever did any good at focusing on their "intended" issues. And, it will continue to cause the same problems every time the act is repeated. Kind of makes you wonder what the real intent is, doesn't it?

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why not kneel in the huddle?


Jun 8, 2020, 12:04 PM

its all about the flag they can say its not till they are blue in the face..but there is a reason they kneel during the presentation of our colors and national anthem

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Re: why not kneel in the huddle?


Jun 8, 2020, 12:31 PM


its all about the flag they can say its not till they are blue in the face..but there is a reason they kneel during the presentation of our colors and national anthem




It has nothing to do with the flag. I find it interesting that so many people are more upset about the 'kneeling' than they are about the black people being murdered by cops. Welcome to Trumpghanistan.

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Really?


Jun 8, 2020, 12:45 PM

Aug 27, 2016 - "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in ...

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Clemson doesn't care about basketball....as evidenced by Brown-L getting 14 years.


Re: why not kneel in the huddle?


Jun 8, 2020, 1:16 PM [ in reply to Re: why not kneel in the huddle? ]

Welcome to felixanastan. The place where fake outrage over a problem that doesn’t exist burns down cities.....

Fact: a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.

Maybe it’s the police that should be rioting or kneeling or whatever snowflake bs is trending this week.

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white people are more likely


Jun 8, 2020, 1:21 PM [ in reply to Re: why not kneel in the huddle? ]

to get murdered by cops than blacks..also blacks are more likely to die by gang violence especially in inner city areas...why do black lives only matter when it involves a cop?

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Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"


Jun 8, 2020, 12:05 PM

So what is the real intent?

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I fully believe Kaepernick's original intent was just to


Jun 8, 2020, 12:12 PM

have a "15 minutes of fame" moment. The ones who followed were just lemmings. His method of protest did not, and does not, make rational sense.

If you want a rational point of view, find the recent video Herschel Walker put out discussing George Floyd's death, and the subsequent violence, rioting and looting that has gone on since then. He makes a great many rational, well thought out points. His is what I would call a REAL peaceful protest.

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Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"


Jun 8, 2020, 12:11 PM



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Agree with most of what you said but I don't know what the


Jun 8, 2020, 12:14 PM

answer is. I believe and I think 99.9% of Americans believe Mr. Floyd was killed unjustly and that there should be repercussions for the officers involved and they have all been arrested and will get their day in court. What I don't understand, is how looting and rioting against some of the people you're supposedly rioting for helps them in any way?? The rioters/looters destroy their businesses that some have worked a lifetime building. It just breaks my heart to see that. I still say that 99% or more of police are honestly good people and they are the folks that are in a lose lose situation mainly because of what the media portrays. And now you have cities wanting or trying to defund police? How will more lawlessness help this situation??? Sorry for the rant, Go Tigers!

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Re: Agree with most of what you said but I don't know what the


Jun 8, 2020, 1:58 PM

And which groups will be most negatively impacted by getting rid of police? Here's a hint. It won't be rich white people.

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I have a great idea....


Jun 8, 2020, 12:15 PM

let's have another post about this issue. The 1000000000000000 other posts about this has left me extremely unsatisfied. ;)

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Re: I have a great idea....


Jun 8, 2020, 12:26 PM

I also have a great idea. The title clearly stated what the topic was gonna be about. If you don’t wanna read it then don’t click on it.

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Lighten up Francas.


Jun 8, 2020, 1:11 PM

Just a joke.

Message was edited by: PACIFIC BEACH TIGER®


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Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"


Jun 8, 2020, 12:15 PM

I asked this in another thread: would you be ok if players protested by kneeling between the 3rd and 4th quarters?

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As long as they are not intentionally disrespecting our


Jun 8, 2020, 12:23 PM

Flag and country, I would have no problem with it. Although, if they kneeled between the 3rd and 4th quarter, they would just be seen by the crowd as being tired.

And, since the all the outcry about kneeling during the Anthem is well known, and yet they still continue to do so, yes, they ARE intentionally disrespecting our Flag and our country.

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Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"


Jun 8, 2020, 12:20 PM

I don't like kneeling for the anthem at all but comparing it to shooting someone with a gun is just insane. That kind of dialog is what's wrong with this country. If you can't respect a person who has lived a different life and has a strongly different opinion than you, that is your problem not theirs.

Kneeling will be widespread in the NFL this season. I don't like it either but they are simply exercising their rights. It doesn't have to be any more than that.

The problem is our president will hammer it as a wedge issue to divide the country and run his campaign on it. He will use it to inflame passions and turn people against each other.

I hope most of our heads are screwed on enough to not take the bait.

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I purposely used what most rational people would consider an


Jun 8, 2020, 12:35 PM

extreme case for my analogy. The Law of Unintended Consequences is just that. It can lead to many unintended consequences, some of which will make absolutely no sense to anyone who tries to live their life within the norm of society. I hope we never arrive at a place where firebombing cars, businesses, and acts of rioting and wholesale looting become acceptable responses to ANY stimulus. George Floyd's own brother spoke out against this not long ago. Unfortunately, his voice appears to be just a blip on the burning landscape right now.

The response to the senseless cop killing of George Floyd was going to be harsh in any environment. Given the fact that peoples lives were already completely disrupted by this Covid-19 pandemic, that was a definite force multiplier.

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Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"


Jun 8, 2020, 2:01 PM [ in reply to Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling" ]

Yeah it'd be terrible if some politician tried to turn this into a political issue. Its so nice to see cities burning, police being disbanded and half the country being told its all their fault without any politics being brought into the equation.

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Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"


Jun 8, 2020, 12:28 PM

They're kneeling during the National Anthem because police brutality is a disgrace to our country.

The first amendment guarantees Americans' the right to disrespect the flag all they want too. That's what freedom actually is.

Fake patriotism is an ugly thing.

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Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"


Jun 8, 2020, 12:42 PM

Asinine post of the day, and its so early

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Recent events showed that "Kneeling" killed a black man


Jun 8, 2020, 12:46 PM

while in police custody. I think the symbolism of “Kneeling” during the National Anthem has been greatly reinforced by George Floyd’s death.

Re-watch the full video with sound on. The “Kneeling” demanding condemnation is not athletes during the Anthem at sports events.

I will stand but respect the athelete’s “peaceful protest” as a reminder that a Cop murdered a handcuffed black man by kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes. I welcome the day when that reminder is no longer needed.

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Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"


Jun 8, 2020, 12:47 PM

Below are a few items from the flag code. Try not to be too hard on those that you see practicing these things.

The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. 
The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever.

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Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"


Jun 8, 2020, 12:50 PM


Below are a few items from the flag code. Try not to be too hard on those that you see practicing these things.

The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. 
The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever.




Will do...


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Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"


Jun 8, 2020, 1:47 PM
BillRussell.jpg(128.2 K)



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You can respect both perspectives and more importantly...


Jun 8, 2020, 12:56 PM [ in reply to Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling" ]

the constitutional freedoms that allow both.

Remember that every military oath and most law enforcement oaths are to the US constitution ... not a King or President or even to the American flag.

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Sorry it's you that is getting bent out of shape


Jun 8, 2020, 12:50 PM

This politacl stuff should probably not be on this board but here we go.

It's well documented that Kap researched and chose to use a military technique of kneeling as a sign of respect while performing a peaceful action (not knocking over water coolers or attacking people or anything) to bring to attention that people of color are treated unfairly. Whatever though. Think about this.....

It is Kapernick's flag too not just yours. It belongs to ALL OF US. So it belongs to Kapernick too. If he wants to do something peaceful during the national anthem, I don't care what he does. If he starts ripping it on thefield up or something, that's a different story. Kapernick sure as hell worked hard to get his shot at the NFL, chose to send a message and lost his profession over it. I would think you should be pretty satisfied with that outcome since you hate it so much.


along the same lines, I am sick of white people telling black people how they should feel about the country. Whites have NO IDEA what it's like to be black and living in the US. Everyone should feel about the country the way they feel about it. Anyone criticizing the country is trying to improve it, that's all.

If you want to revere the flag, by all means do not take a knee and hold your hand on your heart. BTW, your eyes are supposed to be focuses on the flag, not on one of the players.....right?

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Re: Sorry it's you that is getting bent out of shape


Jun 8, 2020, 1:11 PM

You mean the black people that live in my neighborhood, work at the same place, go to the same restaurants, pimp out our golf carts? Those black people? Pretty sure I know exactly what it’s like living here. The exact same as me.

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Re: Sorry it's you that is getting bent out of shape


Jun 8, 2020, 1:46 PM

Was talking to a guy today (nephew of a good friend) that’s a student in NC and is from the Upstate. He’s a clean cut, well spoken, educated, respectable Christian man. Oh, he’s black too.

He told me that he’s been stopped 4 times while making the drive between home and school, since January.

Each time he has been pulled from the car and frisked.

He never was told why he was stopped.

Each time the police have asked his girlfriend (she’s white) if she’s ok and not being harmed.

He hasn’t received any tickets or even a warning. Just pulled over to make sure the black guy didn’t kidnap the white girl, apparently.

I’m pretty sure that hasn’t happened to you.

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Re: Sorry it's you that is getting bent out of shape


Jun 8, 2020, 3:11 PM

You’re right, I could have never afforded out of state tuition. I have no idea what it’s like to be that guy.

Also, stops are logged, he should hire a lawyer, pull that data, and sue for harassment. Sorry, I just don’t believe you.

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Re: Sorry it's you that is getting bent out of shape


Jun 8, 2020, 3:38 PM

Doesn’t really matter if you believe me. I believe him 100% and was shocked to hear it. There are literally thousands of similar accounts if you care to look for them. They aren’t all lying. You could probably get similar stories from some of our players...would you believe them?

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Re: Sorry it's you that is getting bent out of shape


Jun 9, 2020, 9:37 AM [ in reply to Re: Sorry it's you that is getting bent out of shape ]

Noodle said:

...... He’s a clean cut, well spoken, educated, respectable Christian man. Oh, he’s black too.






I know you meant it complimentary, but you should learn why black men find this description offensive, and stop using it. Undoubtedly, there will be some white guy that will chime in and be upset about that, because they don't understand.

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This garbage is the single stupidest thing I've seen posted


Jun 8, 2020, 2:02 PM [ in reply to Re: Sorry it's you that is getting bent out of shape ]

on Tigernet. So congrats.

For your to pretend for EVEN A SECOND that you know what it's like to walk in the shoes of a black person in this country is offensive, short-sighted, and ####### ignorant. GTFOH with that garbage. Don't you DARE pretend that black people live the same lives as white people in this country.

You make me sick.

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Re: This garbage is the single stupidest thing I've seen posted


Jun 8, 2020, 3:14 PM

You assume every white person grew up rich and went to private school, and a member of the country club.... lots of black people are living better than I. You are racist.

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Your feeble mind doesn't understand the concept


Jun 8, 2020, 4:38 PM

of white privilege, so there really isn't a point in going on...

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Re: Sorry it's you that is getting bent out of shape


Jun 8, 2020, 2:05 PM [ in reply to Sorry it's you that is getting bent out of shape ]

And anyone who disagrees with Kap and thinks the flag should be respected should also be free to say so without being threatened. Right??

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White people can be so dishonest and stupid sometimes.


Jun 8, 2020, 12:53 PM

Just too eager to draw negative conclusions about a certain race of people even when they should know better.

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Re: White people can be so dishonest and stupid sometimes.


Jun 8, 2020, 2:14 PM

Yep. I think many of us have racist tendencies. I know I do if I'm honest about it. I was raised in SC and my parents weren't virulently racist, but I was raised that there was a difference. I still have some vestiges of that within me. It's wrong, and I try to fight it, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't there.

Kris Kristopherson, who was a Rhodes Scholar and a Captain in the Army who served in Vietnam, had a great song called "Jesus Was a Carpenter". One of the lines in it was "...everyone needs to look down on somebody so why not just look down on me." It is at some of our cores. Only time will get it gone.

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You have a self aware understanding that those thoughts were


Jun 8, 2020, 2:28 PM

wrong and you removed them from your mind and didn't act on them.

Too many white people don't have that same awareness. Trump and his minions call it "political correctness."

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I think a lot of it is a lack of perspective...


Jun 8, 2020, 4:13 PM

I have family and friends who got more and more racist the longer they stayed in SC.

My "cool uncle" who played in a band, got laid regularly, super popular, etc now sounds like David Duke at the Thanksgiving table.

My Facebook home page is littered with semi-racist posts from my old high school friends.

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Re: White people can be so dishonest and stupid sometimes.


Jun 9, 2020, 9:41 AM [ in reply to Re: White people can be so dishonest and stupid sometimes. ]

I don't know if I have heard any white person ever admit this. Respect.


And no, I don't believe that all white people are racists.

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This is powerful.....and difficult


Jun 8, 2020, 1:03 PM

The first couple of minutes are hard to watch......the last couple of minutes answer a lot of questions




https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1120975044954943
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I have this argument all the time with my conservative..


Jun 8, 2020, 1:24 PM

friends.

The income gap is growing in the US every year and is getting out of control.

But they don't see this as a huge issue. Their arguments (which seem logical) are the rising tide raises all boats analogy, and/or trickle down (supply-side) economics will still lift all people even if the 0.1% takes a larger cut.

I live in Colombia where the income-gap is huge. The infrastructure is in shambles and corruption is rampant. I think a huge reason is a serious lack of a middle class.

I feel the US is heading that way, sadly.

Message was edited by: PACIFIC BEACH TIGER®


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Re: I have this argument all the time with my conservative..


Jun 8, 2020, 2:08 PM

Try living in California. Its been run exclusively by Democrats for decades and has the highest wage gap between rich and poor in the nation.

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Re: I have this argument all the time with my conservative..


Jun 8, 2020, 2:32 PM

The NC tiger fan telling the Pacific Beach tiger fan about living in California? I may have now seen it all.

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Yeah, right?


Jun 8, 2020, 3:53 PM

Reminds me of another story. I few years ago when I was running my hostel in Medellin, there was a huge discussion about healthcare with loads of expats at the bar.

One American dude was arguing about how bad the Canadian healthcare system was. Finally, a Canadian dude spoke up and told him he didn't know what the heck he was talking about.

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I don't remember blaming politicians for this.....


Jun 8, 2020, 3:45 PM [ in reply to Re: I have this argument all the time with my conservative.. ]

Just pointing out that my conservative friends don't see a growing income gap as an issue.

By the way, I looked up the biggest income gap states in America. Half are Southern, top two are NY and CA.

Bigger question, why would super wealthy people want to live in Mississippi (top 10 income gap state)?

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Furthermore...


Jun 8, 2020, 3:49 PM

makes perfect sense that California has one of the biggest divides. Look at these two dichotomies: LA entertainment money and latin immigrant workers.

Message was edited by: PACIFIC BEACH TIGER®


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That's an awful analogy


Jun 8, 2020, 1:05 PM

I would like to know how many people are really upset about "disrespecting the flag" and how many are just fake mad about that, but actually mad about something else? What is it that's really upsetting you? Because i just can't rationalize how people could get so mad about this that they despise Kaepernick and want to do things like boycott the NFL and Nike. Maybe it's all bluster because you really didn't like the NFL and Nike apparel anyway so it just looks like you are taking this hard stance when you actually aren't sacrificing anything, but still...

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Simple..right or wrong, go for the jugular to garner attention..


Jun 8, 2020, 1:22 PM

hence the beloved Flag that represents America & all that have defended it with service & life.

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Re: Simple..right or wrong, go for the jugular to garner attention..


Jun 8, 2020, 1:29 PM

I think we should all kneel until this country gets fixed. I'm proud of Kap and he lost a lot because of it. He was trying to make a difference.

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He also lost a lot because


Jun 8, 2020, 1:58 PM

he wasn't a great quarterback

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Aspiring member of the TigerNet Sewer Dwellers


IMO the Constitution & laws represent the United States.***


Jun 8, 2020, 1:32 PM [ in reply to Simple..right or wrong, go for the jugular to garner attention.. ]



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Re: That's an awful analogy


Jun 8, 2020, 2:11 PM [ in reply to That's an awful analogy ]

What if a player took a leak on a flag he tossed on the ground during the anthemn? What if he decided to burn one right there on the sideline? Personally I wouldn't really care either way but to pretend many Americans don't have legitimately strong feelings about the flag being disrespected is bizarre.

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Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"


Jun 8, 2020, 1:53 PM

I only kneel to my Lord Jesus Christ!

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Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"


Jun 8, 2020, 2:19 PM

Jesus knelt to others...washed their feet too.

“I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.“

What example was he setting here? Have you considered what Jesus might be doing today if he were here in a physical form?

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Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"


Jun 8, 2020, 5:27 PM

What would Jesus do if here today? He would love the sinners (that’s all of us) and show them compassion. Then he would say “go and sin no more”. That’s when they would nail him to a cross and crucify him, turning on him like a pack of wolves.

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Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"


Jun 8, 2020, 1:56 PM

Regardless of what the fawning media report, kneelers hate everything this country stands for. They are dressing it up in a cause to force everyone else to kneel beside them. Then they will demand we defund the police, and eventually our military, because they want us to be destroyed.

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Re: Recent events have once again brought up the "Kneeling"


Jun 8, 2020, 4:07 PM

Define "us" in your post, please. Inquiring minds...

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You are not very good with analogies.***


Jun 8, 2020, 4:10 PM



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Go back to the bunker with your boy, donnie. Geeze you fake


Jun 8, 2020, 5:16 PM

patriot guys are whinier than the snowflakes you claim are on the left.

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Why do you like that flag so much?***


Jun 8, 2020, 6:34 PM



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I "like it so much" because unlike a lot of younger people,


Jun 9, 2020, 9:02 AM

I have lived in this world long enough to realize how many young, and older, lives have been shed in defense of the ideals that that flag represents. Lives that were willingly given up so that the idea of democracy could continue to evolve. So that THEIR children and future generations could be raised in the same free society that they were raised in. It's not perfect, far from it. But it is a dayum sight closer than any other nation on earth. You can call me a "false patriot" if you like, that is incorrect, but, in our free society, all I can do is freely disagree with your assessment. I don't get to have you sent off to the Gulag, or have your tongue cut out, which could very well happen in other countries.

Yes, kneeling during the National Anthem is not against any laws. The ability to protest peacefully in any fashion is guaranteed by the Constitution. But, just for a second, those same protesters should reflect back on what sacrifices were made to put that Constitution in place and keep it there, and what those long ago Founding Fathers chose as a symbol of that idea of freedom. If they still choose to kneel during the National Anthem at that point, then all I can say is we just continue to agree to disagree, and I hope that with passing years will come more wisdom for us all.

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You said something important in your reply about


Jun 9, 2020, 11:57 AM

the flag being a "symbol" of freedom. You are absolutely right, it is a symbol, a symbol of all that is good and bad about America...the wars for freedom, wars for wrong political reasons, the things our country has done right, what our country has done wrong, good historical figures, bad historical figures, the freedom to go as you please, the freedom to not be assaulted or worse because the color of your skin. The flag is that symbol, a symbol, it is not freedom itself.

What Kap and anyone who kneels is bringing attention too is not the flag, not the symbol, but the freedom itself. The freedom for black Americans that is different than the freedom for white Americans. As a proud American, it should burn you up that a large group of our fellow citizens can't experience freedom the way the rest of us do, because that is, distinctly, not American in value.

This is not an us vs. them political time, black Americans simply do not have the same freedom as white Americans and it affects all of us, not just black Americans. We are seeing that right now, it's why so much discussion on this board is about this very subject. Our current political situation affects all of us. I'd love nothing more than for all of us to participate and solve this problem and we can all stand for our anthem, knowing it is the right thing to do.

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