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1st Rounder [623]
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Reality of the CBB situation.
Feb 16, 2018, 4:21 PM
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It's been interesting following the CBB sentiment in this board! I've probably been one his biggest critics and the fan base is all over the place. Here's the reality though. The overall results have been very average, but to his credit , this team and this year has been a huge success and probably his best effort so far. Soooooo, the table is set. The facilities are in place , the CLEMSON brand has never been better. He's got momentum. Can he maintain it ? Can he build on it? I think as a fan base that wants to have a successful program, our best bet is to quit whining and get behind him and see where it goes!! If we slip back to mediocrity, then I think he should have a short leash. Tiger nation has been very patient, but he's GOT TO deliver consistently or it's time for a new direction. Let's go Tigers!! Sweet 16 or bust!!
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Legend [19687]
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Sustaining has been the issue with every coach
Feb 16, 2018, 4:26 PM
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in our history. We'll be very good again next year. We've now had back to back excellent recruiting classes, for us. Next year's class is huge for a longer term sustainability. Tons of in state talent for a change, and we need 1-2 of them
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110%er [6692]
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The big key, in my opinion, is having talented guard play
Feb 16, 2018, 4:29 PM
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past Mitchell/Reed.
Our best seasons are when we have talent and experience at the guard position, and one could argue that's the most important positions in college basketball (think Kemba Walker-led UConn).
I think Trapp will develop into a great guard, he's shown flashes this year and of course some freshman mistakes.
Also think we've recruited pretty well at that position for the next few years, bringing in some taller guards.
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CU Medallion [58415]
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Problem is, our recent recruiting classes, which
Feb 16, 2018, 4:45 PM
[ in reply to Sustaining has been the issue with every coach ] |
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are a step up for us, are still mid-pack in the ACC. If you count transfers, maybe top-end mid pack. I hope our goal isn't doing "good for us", however; I hope it's to be competitive at a high level, and the expectation of making the NCAA tournament with regularity. I don't care if we do it by traditional recruiting, transfers, player development, coaching genius, or a magic wand, as long as we do it.
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Legend [19687]
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In order to reach that next level, we first need to be
Feb 16, 2018, 5:00 PM
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consistently "good for us." I count transfers as recruiting now, and with this latest group, we've shown we are a good landing spot. And we have guys stepping up in class like Reed, and more lateral transfers like Mitchell, Thomas and Donnal. I really wouldn't be surprised if we get a 2-3 year backcourt transfer after this season, hopefully a PG. Someone to compete with Trapp after Mitchell leaves.
2019 is huge, as SC has five legit high major prospects. Need to start getting some of those. If We're to sustain, and move to that next level, need to start keeping some high level in state talent. Especially in a year with as many as 2019
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Heisman Winner [111603]
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Re: Problem is, our recent recruiting classes, which
Feb 16, 2018, 5:23 PM
[ in reply to Problem is, our recent recruiting classes, which ] |
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true, but coaching is not the problem and he can win with the talents he has now. Can you honestly say Roy Williams would be sitting on 20 wins with our current roster?
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CU Medallion [58415]
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I honestly don't have any reason to think Roy is a good
Feb 16, 2018, 5:29 PM
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coach.
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CU Medallion [58415]
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And, if he can sustain this level of talent and depth,
Feb 16, 2018, 5:33 PM
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then yes, he will have a shot. He did a fantastic job with transfers, no doubt; and I fully understand that transfers are a part of the game now, I'm just not sure it's sustainable going forward to that degree.
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Heisman Winner [111603]
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Re: And, if he can sustain this level of talent and depth,
Feb 16, 2018, 5:35 PM
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I know the old facility they built under Purnell was complete dog ####. The practice courts were tiny and had no natural light.. There were no player amenities, and the locker room was hideous. it waas 40 million thrown out the window. We have a much better product to sell recruits with this new facility, and it is already paying off.
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Legend [19687]
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What transfers need to become
Feb 16, 2018, 6:08 PM
[ in reply to And, if he can sustain this level of talent and depth, ] |
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is a way to add a key player where needed. I agree, having 60% of your starting 5 isn't sustainable. That's hopefully where these last two classes and what could be a big year in 2019 can give that formula sustainability
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Legend [19687]
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I guess in Clemson history
Feb 16, 2018, 5:03 PM
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3 straight tourney appearance is sustaining. He would have gotten 4, then with his last class before he left falling apart, fallen back to mediocrity like every other Clemson coach except Barnes, who left as well
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All-In [27374]
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Re: Sustaining has been the issue with every coach
Feb 16, 2018, 5:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Sustaining has been the issue with every coach ] |
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True. He's doing a great job now and has since he ran off in the middle of the night. A disgrace to Clemson. Imo
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110%er [6692]
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More like he ran off, or his wife made him run off.
Feb 16, 2018, 5:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: Sustaining has been the issue with every coach ] |
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Didn't anyone at Clemson run him off lol, the guy didn't even tell the team if I remember correctly.
Message was edited by: tiggerz04®
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Legend [16136]
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Reality? Just as long as you're consistent and
Feb 16, 2018, 5:23 PM
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don't jump on any bandwagons. Continue criticizing Coach Brownell utilizing your insightful basketball knowledge because obviously you know more about the game than the guy who gets paid to be the head coach. I don't think you necessarily need to actually cheer for the Tigers when they make mistakes, just as long as you keep all those around you abreast of the fact you're more qualified.
Being true to your convictions will always win you more friends and admirers than being a spineless lackey who only cheers for teams/coaches when they're having successful runs.
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1st Rounder [623]
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Re: Reality? Just as long as you're consistent and
Feb 16, 2018, 5:39 PM
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I'm 52 and I've been a Tiger Fan my whole life. I've supported every coach and every team . I don't however believe the just because someone is being paid to be the head coach you must believe they are knowledgeable and more importantly, capable of leading a major D1 program. Basketball is a pretty simple game and yes, I've played it, coached it and studied it for over 40 years. It's not brain surgery. With that said, I also have high expectations of what Clemson fans should expect of our program . We, collectively , have given the administration and the coaching staff everything they could possibly need or want to be successful. I don't adhere to the belief that we are a "football school" and can't compete year end and year out. All I'm saying is that CBB has been given the benefit of the doubt, but if he can't sustain it , he should be gone. Everyone has a different opinion of success. I define it as 20 win seasons and NCAA bids 7 or 8 years out of 10. Compete for conference championships( top 3 or better) 2 or 3 years out of 10. And finally, Always represent CLEMSON with class.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Reality? Just as long as you're consistent and
Feb 16, 2018, 5:44 PM
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If that's your definition of success then there is no way that any coach in Clemson history has had the tools they could want or need to be successful.
I'm sorry, but what you defined has never happened here, hell, we've only been to the tournament 11 times since 1980. That's a far cry from 7 or 8 out of every 10 years.
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Legend [16851]
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Re: Reality? Just as long as you're consistent and
Feb 16, 2018, 5:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: Reality? Just as long as you're consistent and ] |
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If anyone has followed Clemson for ages, then they'd recognize the putrid support the program has had. Likewise, they'd acknowledge that only the past two seasons have the facilities been upgraded sufficient to attract competitive recruits. Lastly, and try not to let this little nugget escape attention: the FBI probe will speak far more to where and why talent has flowed and, most of all, why there hasn't been a level playing field on the collegiate landscape for a very long time. Would anyone not think Clemson would suffer under such?
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1st Rounder [623]
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Re: Reality? Just as long as you're consistent and
Feb 16, 2018, 6:43 PM
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You make valid points and I do think that the FBI thing will present opportunities for some programs that are positioned to take advantage of it. I think we're one if those programs. I do think if Rick Barnes had stayed at Clemson we would have enjoyed that kind of success, despite all the detracting issues. It was headed in the right direction, there was that type of momentum. Let's face it, CDS has raised the bar on the way Clemson fans think a major program should be run and the results we should expect. I for one believe that with the right recipe, Clemson can get there with the BB program as well. I don't however, believe we should accept mediocrity.
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Legend [16136]
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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There's possibly one good thing about Clemson Basketball.
Feb 16, 2018, 7:16 PM
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It's pretty danged clear that we aren't involved in the big scandal about recruiting.
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110%er [7160]
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what’s your definition of mediocrity?
Feb 16, 2018, 10:43 PM
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Missing the NIT is below average IMO. The big dance is well above average historically and actually winning tourney games is consider excellent.
If some of y’all are expecting football type success then please don’t waste your time and simply quit following the team. You make Tiger fans seem remedial. Follow coot basketball, they seem to welcome that type of fan.
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Legend [16256]
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D Rad pulled off a great move by cutting CBB's buyout
Feb 16, 2018, 11:02 PM
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in half over the next two years - otherwise last year's renewal was a 2-year deal regardless. Aces on that D-Rad. I had pretty much finally given up on Brownell - it took 7 years - mostly from the way games and seasons were collapsing late on us so much and so often. I can't look past the Head Coach on that, and it finally caught up.
If there's any one thing I've seen that's different this year in Brownell it's that he's had a better groove about things, if that's fair to use in basketball parlance. He's seemed more emotionally engaged coaching the games, and I think he's really rotated our players really well this year and trusted them more to make plays.
This was a do or die season coming in for CBB. He's doing it. Good for him, us fans, and the program. Has he legit turned the corner? Hoping we have another month plus to see it.
Go Tigers.
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1st Rounder [623]
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my definition of mediocrity
Feb 17, 2018, 8:05 AM
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I'm shocked that ant true Clemson fan could have such low expectations of a major sports program , considering all the resources available now. My definition of mediocrity would be not consistently finishing in the top half of the ACC and I would say missing the NCAA more than 50% of the time . You do realize 68 teams make the NCAA every year. Are you saying we shouldn't expect to be in the top 68 at least 70% of the time. That's ridiculous! I know it's never been done at Clemson before, but we've never had the brand, the exposure and the resources to do it. I'd love to know what BB success looks like to the average fan.
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