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All-TigerNet [14921]
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I've been reading all day about how the NCAA is going to get
Jul 12, 2012, 9:54 PM
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involved with Penn St. and how people hope they get the death penalty... That is ridiculous.
Let me say first of all that is the easily the worst thing that ANY athletic has ever done. Period. Indefensible, reprehensible, disgusting, you name it.
Having said that, the NCAA has NO BUSINESS getting involved. This goes so far beyond a WR selling a game jersey, a QB getting a free tattoo, or even a QB's dad selling him to the highest bidder. This is not about football or college athletics. There are legal mechanisms in place centuries older and infinitely more tested and competent than the NCAA to deal with situations like this and those will run their course.
Penn State will deal with the fallout from this legally and otherwise for decades. And they deserve every bit of what happens to them. But the NCAA should have no say in that. It's a joke institution, with laughable, selective "oversight," and no mechanisms or competency to handle anything of this magnitude and devastation.
They can just go back to pretending Cam Newton was blissfully ignorant and slapping the Tarholes on their fart-smelling, baby blue wrists. Let the grownups handle this.
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Orange Blooded [2213]
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Respectfully disagree....
Jul 12, 2012, 10:12 PM
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..I'm sure the NCAA has access to tons of free legal advice, and yet they are already involved after sending a formal letter to PSU. Unless it's just for "show", they already know exactly, in the legal sense, what they can or can't do. The final decision will hinge on the gray area of institutional control. My personal feeling is that the NCAA will hammer PSU if they can..but that's just an opinion of course. The NCAA is going to look awfully silly to say that an athlete can't receive a free meal, but a coach molesting a little boy in an athletic facility, known to the head coach and AD is "...something we can't do anything about...".
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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Oh I agree that they will at least try (I think they feel
Jul 12, 2012, 10:18 PM
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obligated and frankly entitled) and I also agree that "lack of institutional control" is vague enough to probably apply--even though this is not at all where it should or was meant to apply. But I really don't think they have any business getting involved. This is way over their heads.
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Orange Blooded [2213]
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Fair enough.....and the Big10 is waiting to see what...
Jul 12, 2012, 10:20 PM
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..the NCAA will do...
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Orange Blooded [2303]
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Re: I've been reading all day about how the NCAA is going to get
Jul 12, 2012, 10:17 PM
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If Penn State would cover this up, how do we know all their talk about doing things the right way is true?
How do we know those players earned their degrees and weren't just passed along because peopled feared Paterno. If there were employees afraid to speak up about ###### young boys, then anything is possible.
How do we know there weren't arrests all over the campus for athletes but the police were scared of Paterno?
Don't be so naive.
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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Obviously if that were the case the NCAA could and should
Jul 12, 2012, 10:19 PM
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get involved but the facts right now have NOTHING to do with the game of football.
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Orange Blooded [2303]
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Re: Obviously if that were the case the NCAA could and should
Jul 13, 2012, 8:50 AM
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The NCAA doesn't just deal with football. It's about the athletics department and running its program within the rules.
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110%er [9048]
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The NCAA has no authority when it comes to what .....
Jul 12, 2012, 10:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: I've been reading all day about how the NCAA is going to get ] |
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Sandusky did to little boys or the school's cover-up of that. That is a legal matter, not an athletic matter.
If because of this the NCAA wants to look into potential athlete-involved things like grades fixing, etc. then that's something totally different. Then you'd be talking about something PSU athletes were directly involved in, affected by, or benefiting from.
The NCAA's jurisdiction is involved with situations directly involving athletes at NCAA member schools. Things such as illegal recruiting, under-the-table payoffs, etc. What Sandusky and other school officials did regarding the exploited young people is a legal, not athletic, issue. The legal system such as the police and the courts are responsible for dealing with punishment for this, not the NCAA.
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110%er [6321]
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they would have a say so in lack of institutional control..
Jul 12, 2012, 10:33 PM
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which would cover the cover up by paterno and the other 2
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Legend [17241]
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Re: they would have a say so in lack of institutional control..
Jul 12, 2012, 10:45 PM
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Lack of institutional control relates to control over those affiliated with the university who are committing violations of NCAA rules, not other areas such as legal matters. If one of the university employees was pilfering the university's assets, that might be a lack of control but not in the domain of the NCAA. If the employee was giving cash to athletes, then yes, but if he was just stealing for his own use, then no.
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110%er [6321]
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lack of institutional control..
Jul 12, 2012, 11:42 PM
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also includes unethical behavior. Deceitful and dishonest behavior can be found to be unethical conduct. That includes unethical conduct by head and assistant coaches. Some of this could be Sandusky bringing children not in the 9th grade or above. That is a recruiting violation that was not reported.
There is the code of ehtics... These codes are designed to identify appropriate behaviors expected of administrators, coaches, student-athletes, and others. By not reporting Sandusky, it could give Penn St an advantage by not having this out in the open. These coaches and administrators are mandated reporters.
The code includes that coaches should incorporate ethical decision making models when making athletic decisions. This would have been an athletic decision when it involved one of the coaches.
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Rock Defender [53]
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"coaches should incorporate ethical decision making models
Jul 13, 2012, 12:01 PM
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"...coaches should incorporate ethical decision making models when making athletic decisions".
These weren't truly athletic decisions. Sandusky was relieved of his coaching position, so in a sense the athletic side of it was covered.
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Rock Defender [53]
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sandusky was not fired, Paterno, in the Freeh Report, was on
Jul 14, 2012, 2:30 AM
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record saying Sandusky had a coaching job at PSU as long as Paterno was the HC. Plus, the AD & HC were neck deep in this. You folks act like only Sandusky was involved, but it was the facilities, the program, the AD, and the HC.
God you folks are blind, naive, and misguided.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Standout [349]
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Re: I've been reading all day about how the NCAA is going to get
Jul 15, 2012, 8:41 AM
[ in reply to Re: I've been reading all day about how the NCAA is going to get ] |
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We don't know but you can't penalize an athletic program for possible misconduct in one area just because they had grevious misconduct in another area. Would be like saying since a person is guilty of smoking a joint then he must be guilty of armed robbery, reckless driving, or some other crime.If no evidence exists and there is no proof you can't jump to those conclusions.
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Recruit [83]
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Re: I've been reading all day about how the NCAA is going to get
Jul 12, 2012, 11:25 PM
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I agree that this is a legal matter above the head of the NCAA, but I see no reason not to "pile on" as much as possible in addition to anything the law does.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: I've been reading all day about how the NCAA is going to get
Jul 13, 2012, 6:00 AM
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So you would "pile" on penalities against the new head football coachand his staff,a young high school senior whose has wanted to play football at Penn State his entire life,team members who could lose any athletic scholarships if the NCAA shuts the program down,innoncent fans who spend their hard earned dollars to attend PSU football games,alumi who donate thousands of dollars yet who are totally innocent of any wrong doing in the athletic dept.
This is not about the football program.It is about one deviate,one bad apple and the administration and coaching staff that lied and covered it up.
Penalize the people involved,not the institution.
Sure these prople worked for the institution,but if a graduate assistant,or a janitor,can't do anything about something they saw,or if a Paternino or a Curley cover it up,what do you expect a student to do?
No,punish the people involved,but not the athlete,the student athlete,the student or the fan base.
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CU Medallion [50435]
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The real punishment would be to strip Paterno of all wins
Jul 13, 2012, 9:05 AM
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from his last 10 years if they determined that he covered this up to keep from losing the top notch recruits that led to those wins. If he was afraid of the results of scandal, what he did was worse than what Bowden and FSU did to have several of his wins taken away. Or not? (Of course, this is just for Paterno and not for the rest of those guys.)
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110%er [7913]
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Disagree...this was a football program scandal....
Jul 13, 2012, 9:11 AM
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if Sandusky had been a chemistry professor and this had occurred he would have been in jail yrs ago and several additional kids wouldn't have been hurt. Because he was a football coach/former coach they covered it up.
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CU Guru [1555]
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that is a grand assumption that you have no evidence
Jul 4, 2024, 12:32 AM
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with which to back up that claim. It would be foolish to punish someone on assumption.
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110%er [7913]
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I'm assuming what? That Paterno and his team didn't cover
Jul 13, 2012, 9:35 AM
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this up? They is clear evidence they covered this up. There is also clear evidence that Paterno talked them out of turning this over to authorities. If Tressel can get fired at Ohio St for lying to the NCAA and covering up emails of knowledge of tattoos....and they can get NCAA penalties for it....this deserves penalties as well and much worse.
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Rooter [214]
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Should read the Freeh report...
Jul 13, 2012, 9:42 AM
[ in reply to that is a grand assumption that you have no evidence ] |
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The football program had a reputation of covering things up and being all-powerful. So much so that a group of janitors felt there was no way to report a rape witnessed by one of the janitors for fear of losing their jobs.
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110%er [7913]
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from the report...
Jul 13, 2012, 9:45 AM
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Spanier, Schultz and Curley drew up an "action plan" that called for reporting Sandusky to the state Department of Public Welfare. But Curley later said in an email that he changed his mind about the plan "after giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe." Instead, Curley proposed to offer Sandusky "professional help."
In an email, Spanier agreed with that course of action but noted "the only downside for us is if the message isn't [heard] and acted upon and we then become vulnerable for not having reported it."
Freeh suggested it was Paterno's intervention that kept administrators from going to authorities. "Based on the evidence, the only known intervening factor ... was Mr. Paterno's Feb. 26 conversation with Mr. Curley," Freeh said.
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Rooter [214]
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Yup.
Jul 13, 2012, 11:32 AM
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I'm not sure how this is perceived as not being a football problem?
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Rock Defender [53]
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It was a problem within the football program but one not
Jul 13, 2012, 11:58 AM
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truly related to athletics. This situation was a 'lack of institutional control', so to speak, but it doesn't truly relate to athletics or student athletes. It's bigger than the NCAA and outside their realm of control. Obviously this situation has no precedent, so if the NCAA is going to get involved then they're going to have to make up some athletic rule that was broken.
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Rock Defender [53]
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To quote you ..... You're not very bright!! ..... This is as
Jul 14, 2012, 2:34 AM
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"Lack of institutional control" as you can get!!
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Orange Blooded [2213]
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Re: Yup....sure seems like a "football problem" to me.....
Jul 14, 2012, 12:47 AM
[ in reply to Yup. ] |
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..the only question left to me is the idea that Joe's angle was simply to avoid bad publicity. In the Freeh report, after he's been made aware of at least two charges against Sandusky, he was okay with giving his okay for Sandusky to remain involved in some type of "youth program". If that's true, something is very wrong with that picture.
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Rock Defender [53]
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The Freeh Report is incredibly damaging for Paterno. He not
Jul 14, 2012, 2:38 AM
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only enabled, but it was clear he knew and by virtue of his actions, condoned the behavior. He was the reason it was covered up so long, and they still supported his youth activities. These guys are all going to jail, as would Paterno if he was alive, and PSU should get the death penalty for at least 5 years. No one ever approached Sandusky and said stop.
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Rock Defender [53]
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The Freeh Report disagrees. This was purely a football
Jul 14, 2012, 2:23 AM
[ in reply to that is a grand assumption that you have no evidence ] |
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scandal. Had Sandusky been a janitor, professor, or coach of any sport but football he would have been fired in 1998. This was about football, he was a football coach, using football to recruit kids to molest, molesting them in football facilities, and the primary person instigating the cover up and further support and enabling of Sandusky was the head coach. This entire thing is about football.
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Rock Defender [53]
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110%er [8244]
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Re: I've been reading all day about how the NCAA is going to get
Jul 13, 2012, 10:34 AM
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Under the current NCAA By-laws don't think they will be able to, but it might cause the NCAA to look real close at PSU
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Recruit [83]
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Re: Re: I've been reading all day about how the NCAA is going to get
Jul 14, 2012, 12:27 AM
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Yes I would. If it was a recruiting violation, they would not just fire the coach involved and dismiss the player. They would punish all the innocents too. That's the way it works. Also it absolutely was a football program issue. The one bad apple was a football coach. The ones involved in the cover up were the head football coach and the athletic director. Some of the assaults took place in football facilities and on trips to football games.
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Orange Blooded [2213]
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"A predator used the [Penn State] program as *bait*......
Jul 14, 2012, 12:35 AM
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....and university officials did *nothing* to stop him". If that statement doesn't connect the scandal to the athletics that are governed by the NCAA, then what does?
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Orange Blooded [2013]
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I don't think the NCAA should get involved
Jul 15, 2012, 8:22 AM
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The main reason is because the NCAA's main purpose is to prevent against cheating in college athletics. What happened at Penn St was appalling and everyone involved deserves to go prison but it didn't have anything to do with what happened on the field. The NCAA has no business getting involved in this.
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