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Topic: Frank Martin
Replies: 38   Last Post: May 4, 2013 2:11 AM by: SaigonCock
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Replies: 38  

Frank Martin

[1]
Posted: May 2, 2013 6:26 PM
 

All this trash talk of Martin cutting kids. Some folks on here need to quit being soft. Laugh at Martin for several of easy targets (i.e. hair,red face, miami suits, etc.)But I think its time we start trimming the fat around here. If the kid can't compete, he's not good enough to play for Clemson.

Go Tigers!


Clemson's had transfers already.***


Posted: May 2, 2013 7:31 PM
 




but they weren't forced out, it was of their own decision***


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:45 AM
 



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Re: but they weren't forced out, it was of their own decision***


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:42 PM
 

absolutely!! unlike that mess @ SoCar

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Re: Frank Martin


Posted: May 2, 2013 8:13 PM
 

difference is we didn't kick ours off the team


Re: Frank Martin


Posted: May 2, 2013 8:49 PM
 

All of our transfers asked to leave. If there was ill will, why do you think it's remained silent?

Martin didn't like their effort, they didn't like his system. Not much else to see here.


and I have some beachfront property in Az for sale....***

[1]
Posted: May 2, 2013 8:51 PM
 




Re: and I have some beachfront property in Az for sale....***


Posted: May 2, 2013 10:32 PM
 

How much?


Re: and I have some beachfront property in Az for sale....***


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:43 PM
 

That would be the beach (yes, a real one) at Lake Havasu City, AZ?


...except the shame...***


Posted: May 3, 2013 8:19 AM
 



2020 student level member

Re: Frank Martin


Posted: May 2, 2013 11:58 PM
 

So if CU hired a new coach and the players didn't buy into the system and didn't give 100%, you would let them stay on a scholarship? It's bad precedent.


Re: Re: Frank Martin

[2]
Posted: May 3, 2013 12:02 AM
 

Here's the big difference... at Clemson, a player transfers of their own free will, and then the coaching staff goes and recruits someone to take their place. At SCar, a coach recruits more players than he has available scholarships, then figures out which players to cut from his current roster. It's disgusting.

null


Re: Re: Frank Martin


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:29 AM
 

> Here's the big difference... at Clemson, a player
> transfers of their own free will, and then the
> coaching staff goes and recruits someone to take
> their place. At SCar, a coach recruits more players
> than he has available scholarships, then figures out
> which players to cut from his current roster. It's
> disgusting.

I guess it possible that CU only does things on the up and up and Scar only does things underhanded. Link to any players leaving that don't want to. Is it possible that current players let CFM that they didn't intend to return so he would be able to recruit and fill out a complete team. Look, if he cuts any players, regardless of talent, that are trying there best on and off the court, doing things the right way, and they don't want to leave, you're right, it's disgusting. If he is cutting players that think that once they signed a LOI, that they didn't have to work hard day in and day out, i'm fine with it. One year schollies for a reason.


Re: Re: Frank Martin


Posted: May 3, 2013 7:43 AM
 

Well seeing how your coach oversigned BEFORE he kicked them to the curb that is a good indication.

Keep defending the actions of your school it makes you look just as bad as them. I guess you think the Stanley Doughty situation is also acceptable. You USC people are disgusting.

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null


Re: Re: Frank Martin

[1]
Posted: May 3, 2013 4:22 PM
 

Why was it general knowledge he had signed the new players and was four over the limit prior to announcing who the specific four that were leaving were named.

Sounds like the military - I need four volunteers - YOU, YOU, YOU and YOU!

If they were leaving prior to the signing of the new 4 - it would have been public knowledge in Columbia.

It is all things usc 24-7-365.

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null


Re: Re: Frank Martin


Posted: May 3, 2013 3:19 PM
 

again, how do you know this? Not saying it's not true, but Id love to know how YOU know this as fact.


There is a reason clemson played with so few players


Posted: May 3, 2013 7:03 AM
 

We have had several transfers and were not able to fill the spots. Now it doesn't take much to realize we didn't want them to leave. Even in football we don't start recruiting to fill a guys position until he announces he is transferring.

When you bring in recruits that will put you over scholarship limits and then announce a player is transferring you are deliberately forcing a player out. We have seen SOS doing it and Martin is showing he is no better

null


Re: There is a reason clemson played with so few players


Posted: May 3, 2013 9:07 AM
 

If I'm on an academic scholarship and don't meet a certain GPA I lose my scholarship. If someone on an athletic scholarship isn't meeting certain athletic standards, why should they get to keep their scholarship? Martin didn't recruit these kids, he made them no promises. These kids can transfer to lower schools where they'll most likely go back on scholarship, or god forbid they'll have to go through college like the other 98%, on their own dime.


Re: There is a reason clemson played with so few players


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:02 PM
 

No Martin himself didn't promise them anything but University did accept them as a student athlete. Yes they are required to meet certain requirements but by all accounts they were doing what was necessary to remain with the team. Just because I don't finish at the top of my class does not mean you can deny my scholarship and just because a player isn't a starter doesn't mean you should take it from them.

null


Re: There is a reason clemson played with so few players


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:08 PM
 

"but by all accounts they were doing what was necessary to remain with the team"

What accounts? If this were true they would still be on the team. Some of the players that transferred were starters, or played significant minutes. They were not good at basketball, and on multiple occasions FM called them out for not giving the effort that he expected from his players. Sounds like they were not fulfilling their end of the agreement.


Re: There is a reason clemson played with so few players


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:18 PM
 

The players make no agreement to meet certain athletic standards. They agree to show up at practice and meetings and play for the team. If your university offered scholarships to players that were not good at basketball it is not the players fault. If a player does not show up to practice or acts out of line then it is within the Universities rights to withdraw the scholarship.

An academic scholarship states that a student must maintain a given GPA to retain the scholarship. An athletic scholarship does not state a number of points or winning % that must be achieved to maintain theirs.

null


Re: There is a reason clemson played with so few players


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:23 PM
 

Frank Martin publicly acknowledged that the players were not putting in the effort that was expected of his student athletes. He clearly did not feel that they were meeting the requirements of their athletic scholarships.


curious; how do you know they were forced to leave?


Posted: May 3, 2013 3:18 PM
 

and are you assuming we never cut players?


Re: curious; how do you know they were forced to leave?


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:06 PM
 

I don't know what your definition of forced is but when you have more incoming players than scholarships available someone is getting left out. The only other option is to tell the incoming players you don't have room for them and judging by the football team SCar doesn't have a problem with that either.

null


Re: curious; how do you know they were forced to leave?


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:08 PM
 

Examples of the football team doing this please


Re: curious; how do you know they were forced to leave?


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:12 PM
 

http://blogs.ajc.com/recruiting/2011/02/24/shoved-away-due-to-oversigning-lorenzo-mauldin-still-hopes-to-end-up-at-south-carolina/

null


Re: curious; how do you know they were forced to leave?


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:15 PM
 

“Then again, on the other hand, I realize that I wasn’t academically eligible and I understand that was on my part. And I can’t really use the times I’ve been through as an excuse for that. It’s all right.”


Re: curious; how do you know they were forced to leave?


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:22 PM
 

So your saying its not the Universities fault because they were lucky enough to have a player not meet requirements? So what if he was eligible? Who do you send the no thank you letter to then?

null


Re: curious; how do you know they were forced to leave?


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:28 PM
 

Coaches are well aware of academic situations when they accept commitments. Mauldin himself says the staff was going to place him in a prep school, not something that would happen if they were "shoving" a kid away. They knew they would have several guys that likely wouldn't qualify and made sure they had a full class.


Re: curious; how do you know they were forced to leave?


Posted: May 4, 2013 2:11 AM
 

> I don't know what your definition of forced is but
> when you have more incoming players than scholarships
> available someone is getting left out. The only other
> option is to tell the incoming players you don't have
> room for them and judging by the football team SCar
> doesn't have a problem with that either.

Why does the season have to be over for the guys leaving to let him know they don't intend on returning to the team next year. Maybe he is aware that some will leave and he will not renew the schollies for others. It's not brain science.


Re: Re: curious; how do you know they were forced to leave?


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:31 PM
 

He didnt do a sign and place that's the point.

null


Re: Re: curious; how do you know they were forced to leave?


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:33 PM
 

Yes he was able to find a school that he could get into.


Re: Frank Martin


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:33 PM
 

3 of the 4 leaving will graduate this summer. The other is transferring to Coastal.


Re: Frank Martin


Posted: May 3, 2013 4:45 PM
 

College basketball is big business, if you don't perform you get cut. It happens to the coaches and it should happen to the players too.


Sorry, but I disagree with your entire premise.............

[1]
Posted: May 3, 2013 5:05 PM
 

indeed, college athletics is a big business--at least for the coaches and administrators---but the "student-athletes in football and basketball are already getting paid/compensated/reimbursed or however you'd care to term it...education, room, board, free tutoring, books and numerous other amenities which come out of the pocket of the "normal" student are provided gratis to the "student-athlete"---that is unless you'd like to view as getting paid for working.

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I don't agree with this mentality at all.


Posted: May 3, 2013 5:05 PM
 

This affects the players for more than just the time they are in school, and they're in school to learn.

They are awarded a scholarship based on the school's staff evaluating them and saying their excellent performance is worthy of getting a free ride at the school. If the student in turn does his business and keeps his grades up as well as his athletic performance, he should not be released. If his grades or his work ethic in athletics drop off, then he should be released. He shouldn't be "cut" because someone better came along because the school evaluated the student's talents and decided that they were sufficient.

Forcing students to transfer to stay on scholarship often makes them sit out a year. If they're doing their job, I see no reason to pull the scholarship.

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Re: I don't agree with this mentality at all.


Posted: May 3, 2013 5:11 PM
 

"They are awarded a scholarship based on the school's staff evaluating them and saying their excellent performance is worthy of getting a free ride at the school."

This is why there's often turnover when coaching staffs change. New staffs don't agree with the previous staff's evaluations, or players don't like the new staffs coaching styles/expectations.


I understand that. I was disagreeing with GWU


Posted: May 3, 2013 6:08 PM
 

about "They're recruited to play and if they're not as good as we thought, they should be cut because Div1 athletics are a big business" (paraphrased)

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Re: I don't agree with this mentality at all.


Posted: May 3, 2013 6:16 PM
 

If you did some checking you would know that there was a meeting at the end of the season and Martin was informed by these players they would not return....not the other way around. These kids bought into Horn's program, not Martins. They didn't put forth the effort because they knew they wanted out. I think Martin expects a lot from his players and some were not buying into it. I had a coaching change my senior year in high school and if I hadn't been a senior I would have quit. The coach was not the kind of coach I wanted to play for.


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