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Topic: Question: Do you think Clemson will ever win the NC again?
Replies: 53   Last Post: Apr 17, 2014 6:05 PM by: Completely Solid Orange®
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Question: Do you think Clemson will ever win the NC again?

[3]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:40 PM
 

And, do you think SC will ever win one..And, if they do will it be before Clemson wins their 2nd?

Oh, I really would like to have a HeisMAN in the trophy case..but then again it doesn't mean as much as I use to think it did what with some of the past winners.

What say you?!

GoTiGERS...git er done Men!

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To All CLEMSON TiGERS..Sending you Bright Light from the Carolina Coast and hoping you get to witness a huge Orange sunset tonight. Go Tigers!


Yes, No, and NO

[2]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:42 PM
 

Next question?

Whatever you do, always give 100%.....unless it's donating blood


I think Clemson had a chance before the playoff

[3]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:47 PM
 

But I think the playoff has reduced it greatly. If the playoff grows any more Clemson's chance will be completely eliminated as well.

I don't think SC can win the SEC so we won't ever be able to win the national championship.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Re: I think Clemson had a chance before the playoff


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:50 PM
 

Why does the playoff hurt clemson. Can't wait for this


Because a playoff is going to force you to beat more

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:56 PM
 

More teams with more resources than Clemson.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Like Ohio State & LSU? Face it, both Clemson &


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:57 PM
 

SCar are in the upper echelon with regards to resources.

The only true elites are Notre Dame, Texas, USC, Oregon when it comes to resources.

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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


That's fine if you want to believe it, but


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:59 PM
 

But it isn't true.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


What isn't true? Talent not resources wins games.

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 2:02 PM
 

Resources are nice, etc. but there comes a point of diminishing returns on new buildings an the like.

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Resources lead to more talented


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 2:09 PM
 

While both of our programs have increased our talent neither of us are on the level of the Alabamas and FSUs of the world.

People keep mentioning LSU and OSU. Do you think you're more likely to beat those programs in a one off or do you think you have a better chance to beat LSU and Alabama in back to back weeks or OSU and FSU in back to back weeks?

Give me the one off every time.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


You think like an inferior program.***

[4]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 2:10 PM
 



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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


My apologies.


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 2:19 PM
 

I assumed the OP wanted realistic responses.

If we want best case scenario. Sure USC and Clemson could win a national championship.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Clemson's program carries much more weight than your

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 2:28 PM
 

your microwaved, flash-in-the-pan win at all costs program. Your 4 year window being used for whole picture comparison is laughable. You said it much better when you said uSC will never win anything of note.

Clemson has a nationally known program with a solid history placing them in the top 20~25 of all time. If we win the games in front of us, we will undoubtedly be in playoff contention just the same as anyone else in the country.


You do realize that FSU is in deep **** financially

[2]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 2:26 PM
 

FSU hasn't generated enough revenue to cover its expenses for years now

The current and on-going budget crisis of their athletic department notwithstanding, FSU just won a National Championship.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


What resources? What are you talking about? Money only?

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 2:33 PM
 

Resources lead to talent? Explain.


No


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 3:03 PM
 

Access to talent is a resource. Florida State has a much greater local talent pool than we will ever have access to in SC.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Yeah, because..

[2]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 3:31 PM
 

Traveling to that distant planet they call Florida is such a burden on the school's budget. Rocket fuel isn't cheap you know!

Home state helps, but it doesn't define. National reputation and winning draws talent from wherever, including far off places like Florida even. Crazy too how some of those top-notch Floridians don't mind playing football light years away in lil ol' Clemson, SC.





Is that all you got?


Which is why....

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 3:50 PM
 

neither Clemson nor South Carolina are limited to recruiting ONLY the state of South Carolina?

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


No


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 3:59 PM
 

But don't you agree there is an inherent advantage when recruiting in state talent versus out of state talent?

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Dabo is a pretty darn good recruiter in or out of state.***


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 4:28 PM
 

null




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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Yes, that's why success out of state is so important.


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 5:04 PM
 

Dabo and his staff have been very successful in raiding the best players from Florida and Georgia and they're beginning to get back into North Carolina as well.

The Palmetto State talent pool cannot support two programs bu itself and the most talented HS players in SC for the past few years have grown up SCAR fans.

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You mean like Auburn, LSU and Ohio State?***

[2]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 2:03 PM
 



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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: You mean like Auburn, LSU and Ohio State?***

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 2:06 PM
 

I know Clemson has beaten those teams in the last two years. Not sure Scar ever has

"We establish no religion in this country, we mandate no belief. Nor will we ever. Church and state are, and must remain, separate." ~Ronald Reagan


Ask $CU fans about the last time....

[2]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 2:16 PM
 

they defeated a higher ranked opponent in a bowl game.

The look on their faces is priceless.

It's like that jaw-dropping look from the little kid who just dropped his ice cream cone a the ground.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Because a playoff is going to force you to beat more

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 2:09 PM
 

We would have to win one extra game in the new format but our chances of getting into a 4 team playoff are better now.

Before a one loss ACC team would be out of the question for a NC. But let's say last year we had beaten the coots and the FSU game had been closer. There would have been a chance we could have gotten a 4 seed.

Also now if we were to go undefeated all year that would guarentee a spot in the 4 team. Where as before an undefeated ACC team had a chance of being leap frogged by a one loss Bama etc.

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Re: I think Clemson had a chance before the playoff

[2]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:51 PM
 

Then you remember who gave Urban Meyer his only BCS loss....how does the playoff reduce it if Clemson fields a great team?


Boom goes the dynamite...***


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:54 PM
 




Care to explain how opening the playing field hurts anyone's

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:53 PM
 

chances...?

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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


Rational thinking and reasoning....


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 2:10 PM
 

in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.

Reason means truth and those who are not governed by it take the chance that someday the sunken fact will rip the bottom out of their boat

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


There's no reasoning with stupid...


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 3:17 PM
 

That argument doesn't even make sense.

It's like saying as the NCAA Basketball Tournament continues to expand, the better it gets for the #1 seeds, as if the variance decreases as the number of single-elimination games needed to win a championship increases.

It's the exact opposite, and it should lead to a more diverse group of national champions.

We might be hurt if they changed the format to a Best-of-7 series, but this playoff is only going to help us.


Your analogy is completely off base


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 3:30 PM
 

And the fact you're missing the point of my argument is probably why it sounds stupid.

Would have Wichita State have been better off playing in a national championship in a one off game versus Florida?

Or were they better off in a 68 game tournament where they were forced to play a resource rich 8 seed in Kentucky in the second round?

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


All-time classic quote...

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 3:39 PM
 

"Your analogy is completely off base".

I'm literally laughing out loud.

The real question is, have you EVER had a solid analogy?

Just for example, your "its not fair because defenses aren't allowed to substitute" analogy was complete trash. Comical as all get out, but trash nonetheless. I especially liked how to continued to argue it even when it finally hit you that defenses have just as much opportunity to substitute as the offense.

"Your analogy is completely off base" ... LOL!


Re: Your analogy is completely off base


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 4:02 PM
 

The "resource rich" is irrelevant. Would Wichita State have been better off playing just UConn or having to play multiple games like everyone else. Of course one game is easier but the resource argument is negated by the fact that everyone does it. Kentucky's resources don't allow them to have a bigger roster or go sign new plays between rounds of the tournament. Plus the fact that a relatively "resource" poor UConn team is pretty much the most dominant program in the last 15 years and beat your "resource rich" Kentucky greatly undermines your argument. Further, if resources alone were what mattered Texas would belong in a universe unto themselves. Not even Alabama would be able to compete. But NCAA regulations create grey area where programs and boosters wiling to cheat can create tremendous advantages through the use of relatively insignificant financial resources.

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I mean sure if you're just going to ignore reality


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 4:08 PM
 

Kentucky had a much more talented roster than Wichita state thanks to utilizing those resources.

Uconn had a much more talented roster thanks to utilizing it's rich history.

It's a shame we can't have an actual discussion if you're trying to argue uconn isn't an elite national program in basketball.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Re: I mean sure if you're just going to ignore reality

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 4:13 PM
 

But you're shifting arguments. History is not what you were referring to when you were listing schools with large "resources" first. Connecticut has built that legacy without the resources those prior mentioned schools have. Financially, academically, conference affiliation - UConn has nothing going for it compared to the other schools you chose to mention. If success in and of itself is a resource then it further undermines your argument. And you pretty much ignored everything I else I wrote to argue that UConn should be included amongst those "resource rich" programs.

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Again if you're just making up your own facts


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 4:48 PM
 

We can't have this discussion.

UCONN was a founding member of the Big East, which was the best conference in basketball when it split into two separate conferences this year.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


and has NOTHING to do with....

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 4:54 PM
 

the "resource rich" argument you attempted to make earlier.

For the sake of any client unfortunate enough to have you representing them, I hope you are smart enough to recognize the difference bertween trial law and paper law. As a litigator, you would be completely outgunned and entirely out of your element.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Biggie


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 4:57 PM
 

I have no doubt with your inability to be objective that I couldn't convince you of anything even if I had Jesus arguing my point.

Please show me where I stated the only resource that mattered was money?

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Re: Biggie


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 5:04 PM
 

Class of 09,

I think you actually make a fair point.

In the play-off you'd have to defeat TWO teams that are likely extremely talented with a great coach (FSU, Alabama, Texas, USC, etc.). Obviously, this is harer than going undefeated and having to win just one.

However, in the new system, you need only finish in the Top 4 to qualify for the playoff, where as in the past you'd have to finish in the Top 2.

So, I think it evens out for the most part. Those two additional spots create a huge opportunity for one and even possibly two-loss teams.

I'd say the chances of winning a national title are about the same. Easier to get "in", a little harder to win.

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Thank you for replying to my argument


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 5:11 PM
 

It's just my opinion that Clemson will still need to be undefeated to make the four team playoff.

Last year even if you beat Carolina you would have finished outside the top 4.

Last year Alabama would have made it in the top four even four. I think the additional spots will end up with your blue blood programs more often than not.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Re: Thank you for replying to my argument

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 5:39 PM
 

Disagree with you there. A loss to Georgia in the opener-- in Athens-- far from eliminates our chances if we were to beat FSU, run the table in the ACC, and win the ACCCG. A 12-1 Clemson team is in Top 4 with relative ease.

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Oh the irony and the hypocrisy.....

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 5:19 PM
 

I am fully capable of being objective but your inability to convince me of anything is because I just don't think you're very bright.

I am certainly not alone in my asertion that you are without question one of the all-time most ignorant posters on this forum. Unlike a fine wine, you have not improved with age.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Again if you're just making up your own facts


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 5:59 PM
 

What facts have I made up? You appear to be the one deflecting. Your opinion - and that is what it is - that the Big East was the best conference in basketball is irrelevant. In a discussion of "resources" - the term you introduced into this thread - the only fact relevant to UConn would be how much money did the Big East disperse to them. Do you think it would place them in the Top 25 of all D1 schools. in ticket sales revenue, booster revenue, conference revenue, and licensing Clemson AND South Carolina are both Top 25 schools. They both have all the "resources" they need to be as competitive as they want. We don't decide football games by comparing program balance sheets. Again, Texas would trump everyone. How you allocate those resources and how successful those allocations are play a role in the process.

In the future of college football any team that makes the 4 team playoff will be more than capable of winning it. If Clemson, Notre Dame, Texas, and Alabama make the first playoff we're not disadvantaged because of their resources. That die has long been cast and any of the 4 teams will have a pretty good shot at winning it all. In the long run resources will matter because those teams with greater resources will have the best chances of remaining consistently good and getting repeat shots at winning the championship. But you are seriously underselling Clemson and South Carolina if you don't think both schools will manage to continue compete at the upper level of college football.

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I don't think I'm underselling our programs. I'm being realistic


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 6:04 PM
 

Yes the last few years have been amazing.

But you're talking about two programs combined who have one national championship and one other top 5 finish.

I hope I am wrong, but I don't see us competing long term with the programs ahead of us.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Kentucky having a roster full of talented players....


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 4:48 PM
 

has more to do with their tradition rich history and pi$$ poor academics than monetary resources.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: I think Clemson had a chance before the playoff

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:54 PM
 

Please explain! On the contrary I think it will be easier for us!!!


Re: Question: Do you think Clemson will ever win the NC again?


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:48 PM
 

Deshaun Watson Geisman Trophy and National title winner 2016


Re: Question: Do you think Clemson will ever win the NC again?

[2]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:49 PM
 

Not to be confused with the much more popular Heisman trophy


Re: Question: Do you think Clemson will ever win the NC again?


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 2:00 PM
 

As long as it's not the Theisman

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With the upward trend we have been having, yes I do.


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:49 PM
 

I believe that USC will not win one. If USC is going to win the Natty, they have about 4 more years to do so. Once Spurrier is gone, I think they will return back to old form quickly.

2020 student level member

Yes. Perhaps. No.

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:51 PM
 

Clemson has the coach that can recruit elite players and hire elite assistant coaches to take Clemson to the promise land.

GO TIGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Question: Do you think Clemson will ever win the NC again?


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 2:08 PM
 

I think we have a 50/50 chance.

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I, Phillip, a small boy of twelve, lay exhausted, not knowing if I was sleeping or if I was daydreaming that I was sleeping. Gently I rocked back in forth in my hammock, a hammock woven out of the eyelashes of 1000 deer.


Yes.

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 2:10 PM
 

Soon.


Re: Question: Do you think Clemson will ever win the NC again?

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 5:27 PM
 

If Clemson, or any other ACC team, wins the ACCCG with a regular season record of no more than 1 loss, they will likely be in the playoff and be 2 wins away from the National Championship - the last 2 wins will likely be against other conference champs.


Yes, because I believe in the ultraverse.***

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 6:05 PM
 



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