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All-In [34108]
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"Predisent Trump's horrendous behavior is not technically
Jun 8, 2017, 3:10 PM
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illegal."
If that's the best defense from Trump supporters now, then maybe America is more in agreement than ever.
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Heisman Winner [119696]
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Agree, but there's a buncha dems out today
Jun 8, 2017, 3:42 PM
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Saying Trump is guilty of obstruction.
Wonder when the real nutcases will start crying for impeachment?
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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They already have. For months.
Jun 8, 2017, 3:51 PM
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In here.
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All-In [34108]
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Agreed. And the nutcases are already crying for impeachment.
Jun 8, 2017, 3:54 PM
[ in reply to Agree, but there's a buncha dems out today ] |
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They have been since long before today.
Trump was smart enough not to explicitly order Comey to drop the investigation. He phrased his request the way your a-hole boss phrases things when he wants you to "volunteer" to do something.
If he had explicitly given Comey the order, would that have been obstruction? I don't know the answer.
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Heisman Winner [111558]
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Re: Agreed. And the nutcases are already crying for impeachment.
Jun 8, 2017, 3:59 PM
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was thinking the same. Trump is pretty slippery and I just dont see how you can prove intent here.
Besides, I like him just where he is. This has been the most entertaining predisency ever.
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Legend [18022]
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Yep. Trump is likely just making his reelection unlikely...
Jun 8, 2017, 4:06 PM
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I seriously doubt he'll be impeached for Russia/obstruction. And I'd rather have Trump's ineffectual and incompetent leadership than Pence's/Ryan/McConnell leadership. The only danger of Trump is when the next terrorist attack happens in this country or war breaks out somewhere his "style" of leadership will suddenly stop being borderline comical and become seriously worrying.
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Heisman Winner [111558]
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Re: Yep. Trump is likely just making his reelection unlikely...
Jun 8, 2017, 4:14 PM
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having a lunatic in the whitehouse may just be the key to world peace, who would be dumb enough to get on this imbecile's radar, outside of NK of course.
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CU Guru [1482]
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Re: Yep. Trump is likely just making his reelection unlikely...
Jun 8, 2017, 6:34 PM
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I don't see impeachment here.
I see a crushing amount of youth voting going on in 2018, 2020, 2022, etc.
I see live poll watching, registration verification, and whole metric crapton to taking America back.
I don't see Paul Ryan employed long, basically.
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Heisman Winner [111558]
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Re: Yep. Trump is likely just making his reelection unlikely...
Jun 10, 2017, 9:38 PM
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welp, he could also testify under oath and purger himself. But I have about as much faith in him showing up on the hill for questioning as I do in him releasing his taxes.
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Team Captain [490]
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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All-In [34108]
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if you don't know what I mean...
Jun 8, 2017, 4:43 PM
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then I guess your bosses have all been of the straightforward type.
Having had dozens of bosses in my life, I've encountered the less straightforward type.
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Team Captain [490]
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Agree, but there's a buncha dems out today
Jun 8, 2017, 5:43 PM
[ in reply to Agree, but there's a buncha dems out today ] |
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> Saying Trump is guilty of obstruction.
Probably payback for a buncha Republican's out screaming Obama was really a Kenyan Muslim.
Payback, she is a biatch.
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Legend [17774]
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Re: Agree, but there's a buncha dems out today
Jun 8, 2017, 7:51 PM
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I forgot about Trump being one of the most vocal "birthers" out there for a long time.
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Oculus Spirit [93667]
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They have 'articles of impeachment,' written out...
Jun 10, 2017, 10:11 AM
[ in reply to Agree, but there's a buncha dems out today ] |
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with a 'fill in the blanks,' instruction on the 'reason for impeachment,' line.
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All-In [48078]
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I think most people down deep are good people and know...
Jun 8, 2017, 3:56 PM
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right from wrong. Anyway, I believe most Repubs know he is just a classless jerk and aren't 100% sold on him at this stage. They don't want to admit it though because it will it only helps liberals to do so. They like some things he is doing though, but they know he does some buffoonish things. That said, they would still take him over Hillary, so it's kind of a non issue to them. That's how imagine they must be.
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Heisman Winner [112363]
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You're dead on. Anyone but HRC! #ABC ******
Jun 8, 2017, 6:38 PM
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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Re: You're dead on. Anyone but HRC! #ABC ******
Jun 8, 2017, 10:32 PM
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Russians in the Oval Office, Trump bilking taxpayers for millions at his golf courses, the US now the laughingstock on the international stage. But anyone but Hillary!!!!111
You Trump dumba$$es are something else.
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Oculus Spirit [93667]
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Try to keep up.
Jun 9, 2017, 7:00 AM
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Even Cris, thrill up the leg Matthews admits that there was no collusion between Trump and Russia.
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All-In [48078]
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I think everyone should know that now. Is is just....
Jun 9, 2017, 7:16 AM
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whether some people in Trump's camp were in collusion. Trump is fine as far that goes.
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Oculus Spirit [93667]
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He said Russia was in the Oval office not WH.
Jun 9, 2017, 7:30 AM
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null
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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Team Captain [490]
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Re: I think everyone should know that now. Is is just....
Jun 11, 2017, 12:32 PM
[ in reply to I think everyone should know that now. Is is just.... ] |
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Jared was caught secretly meeting with the Russian gov't b4 the innauguration. That's illegal!
And you think DT didn't know that, then you must be slimy and slippery and live under a rock, too.
The truth is: The Trumps have been laundering money for the Russian oligarchy and the Russian mob for years -- at least since the recession in 2009 -- both illegal in the US. The US Dept of the Treasury has followed the money. (Why else would the Trumps want secret communications that the FBI, CIA, and NSA could not monitor? It's too obvious!l.) Will the Trumps be able to squelch the investigation? That's the question.
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All-In [40929]
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most liberals are sheep
Jun 10, 2017, 8:37 PM
[ in reply to Try to keep up. ] |
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they do not have the ability to think objectively
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All-In [39020]
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All-In [40929]
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Re: "Predisent Trump's horrendous behavior is not technically
Jun 10, 2017, 12:32 AM
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The main problem:
Show Collusion
Show a direct order which would constitute obstruction of justice.
No one can do either. Point is moot. Let him do his job.
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Oculus Spirit [93667]
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"Horrendous behavior?"
Jun 10, 2017, 10:09 AM
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Dems conjured up a story about Trump colluding with Russia. 90+% of the media pushed it until about what, 70% of the population of this country believed he was in the tank, a bought and paid for Russia agent who connived with Putin to steal the election, usurp the power of the USA and use it to serve mother Russia? Is that about it?
Day after day, week after week, month after month for nearly a year tiny bits of trivial information were illegally leaked from our most secured agencies. A meeting with Russian ambassador in the Sessions senate office on official government business which was logged and documented in official records proves that Sessions should resign? Flynn talked to Russian officials on the phone after the election and before Trump's inauguration and that's proof of Trump's collusion with Russia?
Any and every bit of information about Trump, his campaign, any of his support group was leaked to the media which spun the tiny bits of trivial data into a perfect picture of a Commie Spy sitting in the Oval Office. Every leak damaged the POTUS and his staff.
Everything leaked except the FACT that Trump wasn't a spy, the entire thing was a conjured delusion. Comey had the power to exonerate Trump and refused to do so claiming he couldn't address whether or not there was an ongoing investigation. Even after he had spoken so often about Hillary's 'matter,' in front of the cameras in the Senate chambers he refuse settle the matter until it helped him get back at Trump for firing him.
Trump fired Comey and Comey is pitching a two year old's fit. Comey goes before the senate and spins another story. The same delusional morons who bought into the Russia/Trump collusion story are buying into and refashioning another delusional story about obstruction of justice and guess who they are still talking about impeaching?
'Horrendous behavior,' in these circumstance and to that type torture would have been to order nuclear strikes on NYC, LA, Chicago and DC from his private Florida vacation spot and tell America to bite his butt. Anything less seems quite normal to me.
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All-In [34108]
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Re: "Horrendous behavior?"
Jun 10, 2017, 12:29 PM
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70% of the population of this country believed Trump is colluding with Russia? Doubtful. And that's certainly not the horrendous behavior I'm referring to.
I'm referring to Trump running this country the way he ran his businesses: Into the ground. Making everything about him when he should be concerned with the enormous responsibility he has in the position he's in.
Over and over, he parades around the fact that he, personally, isn't being investigated.
Russia's interference with our electoral process, the democratic cornerstone of our free society, is almost universally considered a major problem. "Almost" universally, because our so-called Predisent has expressed no concern about it. He's far too busy on Twitter making everything about him.
The fact that his campaign continues to be investigated is a fact that Trump is dodging by, again, focusing on himself.
All of that is horrendous.
The fact that Trump fired the head of the FBI because he wouldn't be Trump's toady is horrendous.
The concern isn't whether Flynn's meetings with Russians, and lies about meeting with Russians, proves that Trump colluded with Russia. The concern is that Trump isn't concerned about what Flynn did. (We can give Trump credit, however, for the one instance where he expressed at least some interest in identifying other members of his campaign engaged in misconduct.)
You say: "Every leak damaged the POTUS and his staff." And: "Comey had the power to exonerate Trump and refused to do so claiming he couldn't address whether or not there was an ongoing investigation."
Trump has you thinking like Trump. The guidelines for the investigation don't focus on whether the Trump feels hurt. And the fact is, if Comey made that statement, he would be required to make another statement if the investigation ever expanded to Trump personally. Comey made that exact mistake with his investigation of Hillary Clinton.
You say: "Trump fired Comey and Comey is pitching a two year old's fit." You must have been watching a different hearing that the one I saw. "Comey goes before the senate and spins another story"? You're can't possibly be accusing him of lying under oath. Guess we'll have to wait for Trump to prove him a liar with those "tapes."
You say: "The same delusional morons who bought into the Russia/Trump collusion story..." Doesn't this seem like an ironic way to be talking while defending a Predisent who told Americans that he had people investigating Obama's birth certificate and "cannot believe what they're finding." Who accused Ted Cruz's father of involvement in JFK's assassination? Who said global warming is a Chinese conspiracy? Who alleged "serious voter fraud" as the reason he didn't win the popular vote? That's Team Delusion right there.
I don't know what your last paragraph means.
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Oculus Spirit [93667]
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Re: "Horrendous behavior?"
Jun 10, 2017, 8:25 PM
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"Russia's interference with our electoral process, the democratic cornerstone of our free society, is almost universally considered a major problem. "Almost" universally, because our so-called Predisent has expressed no concern about it. He's far too busy on Twitter making everything about him..."
The fact that both sides of the isle in DC were consumed with trying to figure our whether or not Trump was a Russian agent damaged his ability to govern and do what 33 state elected him to do. Folks were so obsessed with Trump they don't seem to be able to focus on Russia.
"The fact that Trump fired the head of the FBI because he wouldn't be Trump's toady is horrendous."
Horrendous was tolerating Comey's silence and allowing the perpetuation of all the confusion in DC and across the country. Comey had no problem showing up in front of a camera and microphone during the Hillary/weiner scandal. He stepped to the mic and told voters 'he,' wasn't going to prosecute because 'he,' didn't see intent to break the law. Try explaining to a cop you didn't mean to run a redlight or violate the law, OK?
"He," is law enforcement and it wasn't within 'his,' power to 'decide,' guilt or innocence. If somebody breaks the law he is obligated to report it to the judicial branch and let the courts decide.
Trump didn't fire him for that on day one because he knew the scandal that would ensue from firing the head of the FBI while the FBI was investigating him. When Trump was sure he wasn't subject of the investigation he felt free to serve the American people by ending the term of an FBI head who was clearly a political hatchet man.
Trump has been a real turd on a lot of issues but firing Comey was the right thing to do after letting the FBI search for damming information for such a long time. Trump and Comey were two of the very few in this country that knew for a fact that Trump was innocent. Think about how Trump felt during all this time.
The only thing Trump did wrong in firing comey was enjoying it.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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All-In [34108]
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Re: "Horrendous behavior?"
Jun 11, 2017, 8:45 AM
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Horrendous was tolerating Comey's silence and allowing the perpetuation of all the confusion in DC and across the country. Comey had no problem showing up in front of a camera and microphone during the Hillary/weiner scandal. He stepped to the mic and told voters 'he,' wasn't going to prosecute because 'he,' didn't see intent to break the law. Try explaining to a cop you didn't mean to run a redlight or violate the law, OK?
The law at issue in Hillary Clinton's case requires a finding of intent. Traffic infractions do not require intent.
Comey's decision to "step up to the mic" in Hillary Clinton's case was her undoing, because he was required to make a second statement when new evidence appeared. He was trying to avoid that situation with Trump.
When Trump was sure he wasn't subject of the investigation he felt free to serve the American people by ending the term of an FBI head who was clearly a political hatchet man.
That statement ignores Comey's entire career.
Trump has been a real turd on a lot of issues
Agreed.
but firing Comey was the right thing to do after letting the FBI search for damming information for such a long time.
That investigation is still ongoing. It was never about Comey.
Trump and Comey were two of the very few in this country that knew for a fact that Trump was innocent.
No one has made any determination as to Trump's innocence.
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Oculus Spirit [93667]
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Nobody had determined if you or I are innocent either.
Jun 11, 2017, 10:51 AM
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Our justice system operates on the presumption of innocent until proven guilty.
'The law at issue in Hillary Clinton's case requires a finding of intent.' No, the words used are 'knowingly and willfully,' 'gathering, transmitting or losing and intent is only considered in court.
Violation of 18 U.S. Code § 798 — disclosure of classified information could apply to someone who “knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person” classified information. Someone guilty of this crime “shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both,” under the law.
Anther law, 18 USC 793 — gathering, transmitting or losing defense information also carries a penalty of an unspecified fine or imprisonment of up to 10 years, or both.
Both 793 and 798 fall under the broader 1917 Espionage Act.
Separately, another potential charge dealing with removing the classification label could be 18 U.S. Code § 2071 — concealment, removal or mutilation generally of classified information. Under this statute, a guilty person “shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States.
Comey acted as judge and jury from a position of a law enforcement officer.
'That investigation is still ongoing.'
'Trump wasn't being investigated,' paraphrased from Comey's statement but Comey hyped up another wich hunt. This time they are hunting for a smoking gun about obstruction of justice and not collusion with Russia by Trump.
I'll give you one thing, the Hillary investigation and Trump investigation are different. Whether or not Hillary illegally handled information marked and labeled highly classified was not in question, she did. Trump wasn't even being investigated.
There's another difference. Comey deliberated on both and found exactly opposite deliberations. It's strange how he found the democratic candidate for president innocent in the kangaroo court in his head and somehow was OK with the obstruction of justice by the Rep POTUS until he was fired.
What a pilar of justice and virtous man Comey has become over the past year.
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All-In [34108]
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"Willful" means that intent is required.
Jun 11, 2017, 11:19 AM
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Isn't your son in law school? Ask him if I'm lying.
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Oculus Spirit [93667]
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Hillary 'accidentally,' or 'ignorantly,' used an unsecured..
Jun 11, 2017, 11:33 AM
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server? Of course she willfully intended to use an unsecured server. Intent goes toward defining what she planned to do with secured information after the fact. Intent would be determined in court not by the enforcement branch of the justice system. That doesn't address the fact that she transmitted information to someone who transferred it to a person who wasn't cleared to have the information.
Her intent was not determined, it was presumed by Comey. He usurped the power of a court of law and refused to execute his job as a law enforcement officer.
If Trump was attempting to obstruct justice he didn't reveal that knowledge until after he was fired. That's a crock of bullchit and you very well know it. Trump won't be impeached over this because the star witness is contaminated. Comey has continued his successful campaign of funding energy for yet another witch hunt.
According to what Phillip's brownie buddy in law here in Greenville, 'law is taught in the courts not in school. School is just a devise to give you ears to hear and learn.'
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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All-In [34108]
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Re: Hillary 'accidentally,' or 'ignorantly,' used an unsecured..
Jun 11, 2017, 11:50 AM
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Hillary 'accidentally,' or 'ignorantly,' used an unsecured server? Of course she willfully intended to use an unsecured server. Intent goes toward defining what she planned to do with secured information after the fact. Intent would be determined in court not by the enforcement branch of the justice system. That doesn't address the fact that she transmitted information to someone who transferred it to a person who wasn't cleared to have the information.
Legally speaking, that's incorrect. Intent goes only to the specific conduct specified in the statute, and criminal statutes are narrowly construed.
Her intent was not determined, it was presumed by Comey. He usurped the power of a court of law and refused to execute his job as a law enforcement officer.
What was unusual was not that the FBI decided not to prosecute. What was unusual was Comey's choice to make unsolicited findings of fact about a former target of investigation, i.e., that Hillary Clinton or her colleagues were "careless," and to do an end run around the Justice Department in making the announcement.
All of this was bad for Hillary Clinton, especially because the announcement created a duty to correct when new evidence appeared.
Comey wisely avoided the same mistake with Trump, even though Trumpers somehow view this as a slight.
If Trump was attempting to obstruct justice he didn't reveal that knowledge until after he was fired. That's a crock of bullchit and you very well know it. Trump won't be impeached over this because the star witness is contaminated. Comey has continued his successful campaign of funding energy for yet another witch hunt.
I don't know what this means.
According to what Phillip's brownie buddy in law here in Greenville, 'law is taught in the courts not in school. School is just a devise to give you ears to hear and learn.'
There's some truth to that, but law schools--or at least mine--provide excellent preparation for the real world, in part by spending most of the time learning what courts have decided.
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Oculus Spirit [93667]
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Re: Hillary 'accidentally,' or 'ignorantly,' used an unsecured..
Jun 11, 2017, 12:37 PM
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"If Trump was attempting to obstruct justice he didn't reveal that knowledge until after he was fired. That's a crock of bullchit and you very well know it. Trump won't be impeached over this because the star witness is contaminated. Comey has continued his successful campaign of funding energy for yet another witch hunt."
You statement about this was fair. The use of pronouns when nouns are needed to square the corners is torturous to readers and listeners. The ranting was most incoherent.
If Trump was attempting to obstruct justice during his meetings with Comey, Comey didn't reveal that until Trump fired Comey.
Trump won't be impeached over the charge of obstruction of justice because the star witness Comey is tainted for holding the information until it suited his purpose, after he was fired. Comey has done nothing with his testimony but stir up political crap into the public mind.
Trump also, by comey's testimony, did not instruct him to end the Flynn investigation. Thus, another witch hunt.
As far as Hillary's investigation storing classified data is one charge. Providing it to a person who allowed it access to someone who wasn't cleared to have it is another. Subjecting our classified data to Russian hackers has to be illegal in some form.
What dems are saying to defend Hillary's attitude of being above the law and the law wasn't written for her is atrocious.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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All-In [34108]
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Re: Hillary 'accidentally,' or 'ignorantly,' used an unsecured..
Jun 11, 2017, 1:10 PM
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If Trump was attempting to obstruct justice during his meetings with Comey, Comey didn't reveal that until Trump fired Comey.
Sounds right.
Trump won't be impeached over the charge of obstruction of justice because the star witness Comey is tainted for holding the information until it suited his purpose, after he was fired. Comey has done nothing with his testimony but stir up political crap into the public mind.
I agree that we're nowhere near impeachment right now, especially considering that the GOP is running every branch of government.
Trump also, by comey's testimony, did not instruct him to end the Flynn investigation. Thus, another witch hunt.
Comey's testimony is that Trump told everyone to leave the room, and then told Comey that he "hoped" that Comey would drop the investigation. Comey also testified that, under the circumstances, it appeared to be a directive. There's no doubt, however, that Trump intentionally worded it in order to have plausible deniability.
As far as Hillary's investigation storing classified data is one charge. Providing it to a person who allowed it access to someone who wasn't cleared to have it is another. Subjecting our classified data to Russian hackers has to be illegal in some form.
What dems are saying to defend Hillary's attitude of being above the law and the law wasn't written for her is atrocious.
Hillary, like her husband, is a master of the unforced error. The email server was a dumb thing to do, and I think it probably served some improper purpose.
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Oculus Spirit [93667]
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It sucks when you agree with me.
Jun 11, 2017, 5:30 PM
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I learn nothing. Thanks.
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CU Guru [1207]
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Re: "Predisent Trump's horrendous behavior is not technically
Jun 11, 2017, 2:22 PM
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Why don't you go ahead and impeach him, and put a more conservative, Mike Pence, in as president. Is that what liberals really want? You should be thankful, you have the moderate Trump as your president.
The poor losers will need to put forth an honest, more moderate candidate next time.
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Heisman Winner [111558]
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Re: "Predisent Trump's horrendous behavior is not technically
Jun 11, 2017, 8:36 PM
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agreed, and the entertainment value here hard to ignore, especially when tnetters haplessly try to defend his actions. We are in the year of the lutz.
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