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All-In [46824]
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Trump Supporters GITT
May 5, 2020, 10:04 AM
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and explain to me where your support lies currently for the president with 1 being "get him the #### out of there" and 10 being "crown him king"
Why?
And please refrain from Biden/Hillary/Deep state etc.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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No***
May 5, 2020, 10:09 AM
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All-In [42151]
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Cause he's owning the libs!
May 5, 2020, 10:17 AM
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Seriously, I think most diehard Trump supporters are frightened Americans who thought they had lost their voice, and now, somehow, they think this guy has given it back to them.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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You have a point, but its not quite that simple.
May 5, 2020, 12:09 PM
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"They will still vote for you if they don't like you. They will never vote for you if they think you don't like them."
Beginning with Obama and escalated by Hillary Clinton, the idea that people who hold classical conservative perspectives deserved being condescended to. From "guns and bibles" to "deplorables", the message was pretty clear.
Combine that with a binary choice - it was him or the other person - and you get the results we got. To call that a rebellion of the disaffected is itself condescending. Keep it up, you lose another election.
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All-In [42151]
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Re: You have a point, but its not quite that simple.
May 5, 2020, 12:25 PM
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Beginning with Obama and escalated by Hillary Clinton, the idea that people who hold classical conservative perspectives deserved being condescended to. From "guns and bibles" to "deplorables", the message was pretty clear.
I concur. The moment Hillary made the "deplorables" comment, I thought she was in trouble.
But I've also said there's a big difference between those who held their nose and voted against Hillary vs. those who still adore Trump. The latter continues to double down that he's a great president--some thinking he's the best president ever--which is foolish. Part of that comes from their newfound voice and the fear of admitting they are wrong.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Yes, that does happen. How much of that is due to
May 5, 2020, 12:52 PM
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the fact that the 30% on either end are fanatical about whoever represents them, and how much is due to the actual person, I dont know.
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Standout [347]
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Standout [321]
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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Re: Cause he's owning the libs!
May 5, 2020, 9:32 PM
[ in reply to Cause he's owning the libs! ] |
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Trump got roughly the same amount of votes as Romney in 2012. You think it was a different group of people?
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110%er [8984]
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Re: Trump Supporters GITT
May 5, 2020, 10:47 AM
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9.9
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Trump Supporters GITT
May 5, 2020, 10:49 AM
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I'm at about a 7.
I didn't vote in 2016 because I wasn't going to pick between Trump and Hillary.
Since the election we have seen:
- Record breaking economy and stock market
- Unemployment levels that we have never seen before in pretty much every category
- The amount of jobs created surpassed expectations by A LOT
- Wages have grown for the middle class
- Tax cuts
- He is being tough on China, and it seems to be working. (although Coronavirus could have been retaliation to that. I am not saying i believe this, but it is a possibility)
- Immigration reform.
Really the only thing I can complain about is his tweets and overall personality. But I have gotten so used to it, that I just don't really care anymore and I can actually find humor in his ridiculous statements.
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All-In [42151]
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Well, except...
May 5, 2020, 10:59 AM
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- Record breaking economy and stock market
Gone, and presidents have little to do with either boom or bust.
- Unemployment levels that we have never seen before in pretty much every category
Gone, and was already on the steady climb when he took office.
- The amount of jobs created surpassed expectations by A LOT
See above.
- Wages have grown for the middle class
Very true, but more to do with the cuts and the stuff you listed above, not Trump.
- Tax cuts
That was the GOP Congress's doing at the time, not Trump. In fact, they overruled a lot of what he wanted.
- He is being tough on China, and it seems to be working. (although Coronavirus could have been retaliation to that. I am not saying i believe this, but it is a possibility)
Maybe. It's hard to tell in the short term, and as mentioned, coronavirus has complicated that.
- Immigration reform.
Trump's method of doing this isn't something to boast about, and immigration was already on the decline.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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this thread is for Trump supporters only***
May 5, 2020, 11:48 AM
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All-In [42151]
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I do what I want.***
May 5, 2020, 11:52 AM
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Orange Blooded [2018]
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Re: Well, except...
May 8, 2020, 10:45 AM
[ in reply to Well, except... ] |
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You really don't need to embarrass yourself. Obviously the corona situation has put the economy on hold but it will be back.
I do agree that presidents don't generally have a major impact on the economy. However, we had pushed so far left that he was able to make some immediate impactful changes.
Clinton is a perfect example of a moron who got credit for the economic boom during his presidency. He just happened to be president during both the internet and biotech booms. He just got lucky.
Trump listened to the average American and has won them over. I told my wife long before the election that Trump would win when I saw the number of people going to rallies and standing in line for hours. Those people were going to vote.
Trump is the outsider and the average American is done with DC politicians! Almost all of them. Our government was never supposed to be for career politicians. They are so out of touch with the real world and are all about money and power.
Google lifecycle of democracy and you will see why democratic policies are driving us to the end of our great nation.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Trump Supporters GITT
May 5, 2020, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: Trump Supporters GITT ] |
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There wasnt a record breaking economy or stock market generally speaking, so you were misguided there.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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I've said numerous times that I don't require a spiritual
May 5, 2020, 10:59 AM
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leader to be president. I don't really care about his personality, because its pretty doubtful I'll be hanging out with whomever is in office. IMO, all he needs to do are 2 things:
1) Provide a favorable environment for our economy to grow
2) Keep us out of a war. If we are attacked, end it, quickly.
I didn't vote for Trump. In fact, I didn't vote at all. I did however find some general humor in the crying and whining when Hillary lost. I still find humor in the reactions to Trump winning, because he wasn't supposed to win. It was her turn! Well...too bad. And the constant attempts to remove him from office have been ridiculous and a waste of time.
But Trump lost me for any support with his CV response. He was doing good with the economy up until January, but he can't seemingly do anything right with his response to the Corona virus. And the bad part is that he could have--but he can't get out of his own way to let the people who know what to do do it.
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All-In [42151]
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Re: I've said numerous times that I don't require a spiritual
May 5, 2020, 11:00 AM
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So does this mean you're going to vote against him in November, or not vote at all again?
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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I haven't decided.
May 5, 2020, 11:02 AM
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Its a pretty p!ss poor choice either way, IMO.
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All-In [42151]
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Yep.***
May 5, 2020, 11:09 AM
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CU Medallion [55743]
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It varies by the day/week, but it ALWAYS beats the
May 5, 2020, 11:00 AM
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alternative!
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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I'll give it a shot.
May 5, 2020, 12:42 PM
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First, you can't exclude Hillary/Biden/deep state. An election is a binary choice, and on that day I was presented with two choices. To force one to describe opinions about Trump without acknowledging the awful quandary a voter was in is not an honest approach. But okay, by my choice I will refer to Trump only.
I was hoping for another nominee. There is nothing about Trump's exterior persona one should want in the White House. I didn't want him there. But he's growing on me. What i have seen that gives me confidence in the decisions he makes:
- Internationally, he is not afraid to understand where threats come from and where they don't, and is not afraid to do what is necessary in either case. Regarding the middle east, he understands we shouldn't have ever been there and he has turned away from more opportunities to shoot than either of the previous three, going against our own military at times. "Those guys have been fighting over those borders for 5000 years, and we aren't going to change that." Finally. But regarding China, the previous presidents have been afraid to face head on the most direct attack we have ever faced, including Pearl Harbor. He is not afraid to face it, and he is winning it. We can't give that up now.
- Economically, we give way too much credit and blame to presidents, but the results speak for themselves in this case. I hate the level of debt, but all previous presidents have failed on that, partly because Congress will not accept meaningful reductions in spending. But I don't give him a pass on that: the level of deficit is a failing. Other than that, he has made very good decisions about the US economy.
- Philosophically, he is proving to be a federalist. The left throws out the word "Fscist" (while paradoxically mad at him because he won't seize your guns), but his actual actions are the opposite. The left gets mad at him for that, too.
- Politically, he is a product of polarization. Exhibit A is Mitt Romney. As one person said, if asked to write a job recommendation for Mitt the letter would have to start with, "Not since Jesus of Nazareth....", but the left as proven they know what to do with boy scouts. They named-called him into obscurity, every name a lie. According to them he hates women, he hates minorities, he hates gays, he hates anyone who is not wealthy. Pure identity politics. So along comes a guy who plays that game better than the left does. Accuse him of being an out-of-touch billionaire and he'll explain that he is not a billionaire: he is a multi billionaire. So, "eff you too" was his response, and, breaking my vow to not refer to Hillary, people wanted a guy who said that. I do not want another president who does that. I would much rather have an Ike vs Stevenson type of election, but that door has to swing both ways.
- Regarding corona, his comments have been off the wall at times, but they come from a perspective I share with him: the sooner we turn decision making and risk management over to individuals the better off we will be. I wish he was a better proponent of that perspective. But as to actual actions, Fauci has said. "We have never recommended at action that he didn't take." He was ahead of those same doctors and shutting off visitors from China. Regarding tests, ventilators, beds, whatever the feds could do, but the NY and CA governors have given him high marks. Regarding policy, he has left that to the states. I love that, and no one will convince me that this was not the right way to make the broadest of the decisions.
I understand the left hates him. I also understand why, and I agree with some of the things that are causing their emotional response. But as to his governmental principles and actual decisions, while no one is perfect he is certainly growing on me.
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All-In [42151]
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Points of contention
May 5, 2020, 1:20 PM
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-You have to exclude the "Deep State" because it doesn't exist. It's a made-up conspiracy theory.
-On the GOP end, Trump emerged as the winner because the other Pubs were lukewarm clones of each other for the most part. Trump went extremist in the primary because he is extremist, and it worked. But his "conservatism" is a fraud, and the GOP didn't take him seriously enough early to shut him down.
-While I agree he is not fearful, he has also made a point embracing some pretty bad strong men, even making nice with Kim Jong Un, while pushing away traditional allies. That's not good for world stability.
I question the claim he "understands". Past reactions and statements speak otherwise, particularly when he is at odds with the Pentagon and claims he knows more than the generals.
-Agreed. Too much blame and credit, and under Trump, spending has increased. I don't necessarily fault him there; Congress still ultimately controls that.
-Here's the biggest problem with your argument. Y'all have got to move away from this "the left" stuff with Trump. True conservatives oppose Trump because he isn't a conservative, and you said it so yourself: He can't be a federalist and call himself a conservative. The majority of America opposes Trump and disapproves of him. I'll wager you agree the the majority of America isn't "the left".
Trump has never been a conservative and anyone who subscribes to Trump ideology can't call himself that, either.
Trump has embraced traditional fascist concepts such as militarization, extreme nationalism, anti-intellectualism, scapegoat enemies, xenophobia, and a Draconian obsession with law and order. Gun control isn't a traditional hallmark of fascism; in fact, it can't be compared because it sprouted up in countries that already had stricter gun laws compared to America.
-I agree he's a product of polarization but you can't seriously just blame the left for that. The right has many, many examples of the same. Calling Obama a Muslim?
-On corona, he acted too slow, didn't take it seriously, and shouted dangerous rhetoric that his followers still echo even after he has gone back on it. He can't shoulder all of the blame, but he needs to shoulder a lot of it.
He hasn't completely left policy to the states. He's threatened them and encouraged/emboldened the armed idiots marching on the statehouses. He's suggested he'll only help states who are nice to him. He has exhibited poor leadership all around.
-Again, it is extremely naive to think "the left" hates him. He is still one of the least popular presidents in history, the majority of America disapproves of him, and those people cover a wide range of the political spectrum.
Again. Trump isn't a conservative. He never has been, he never will be. You've even laid out that case without realizing it here.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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I never mentioned deep state, was merely referring
May 5, 2020, 1:42 PM
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to the OP's restrictions, but there is that matter of the FBI going after a candidate, attempting to determine an election, lying to a court to get warrants, stuff like that. And an ambassador was saying subversive things about the Pres's policies. And the fact that 126% of govt employees vote for one party. No one incident is deep state, and 'deep state' is maybe the wrong word when added all together. Someone else can name the pattern, but a pattern it is,
I didn't say he was a perfect model of a conservative. I was answering the question as best I could while somehow not recognizing that he was running against Hillary, per the OP's illogical request, I don't see how a peson can't be a federalist and a conservative, in today's environment, however. Granted, if the argument is between the federalists and Jefferson, I'm with Jefferson 100%. Between federalists and the left, I'll take the federalists.
I use 'feft' because that is what we are becoming. When the temp of the water one is in is slowly increased from 72 to 100, after a while 100 becomes normal. Its still hot, however. The dem party is now left by any rational definition.
About corona, what should he have done earlier? He closed off China 15 days after the first admission that it was passed human to human. In doing so he was going against both WHO and Fauci, and 30 days later Pelosi was in Chinatown calling Trump "xenophobic". We have ventilators stacking up in warehouses. Hospitals are closing due to too many empty beds. Tests got off to a slow start, but that was a high school error at the CDC, and now we test more than anybody. What should he have done sooner?
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All-In [42151]
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Er, it's in your first line:
May 5, 2020, 1:52 PM
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First, you can't exclude Hillary/Biden/deep state.
-None of that points to a deep state, and I know your gov't employees statement is an intentional hyperbole, but where is the proof that there is an overwhelming majority supporting one party thus working to destroy Trump?
Why didn't they also work to destroy the Bushes, Reagan, etc?
-Federalism flies in the face of traditional conservatism. But again, Trump isn't a conservative. I also argue that he isn't really a federalist; he only embraces that idea when he wants to strong arm his way. But when it comes to taking responsibility, he'll pass the buck gladly.
-I get that the Dems oppose him, but he's got a lot more opposition than just that. Traditional conservatives on this board like flow and cam are good examples of opposing Trump.
-He closed off China, but he didn't close off Europe, and there's now good evidence Chinese had already spread the virus quite well in Europe by then. And his early public reactions to downplaying the threat were echoed on a dangerous level.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Do you really think you need that adolescent "er" ####?
May 5, 2020, 5:43 PM
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i said I didn't mention it except to note that he's the one saying I can't mention it, then I volunteered to not do so. Which I didn't, until you mentioned it again. Lets dont do that. We can disagree all we want, but I don't say condescending things to you.
Okay, maybe he could have closed off everybody besides China sooner. Fine. Having been called "xenophobic" (to keep one's dem party card, you had to use that word 3 times a day), for closing China, imagine what he would have been called for closing off everybody else. But okay, maybe should have done that. Think that would have been a game changer?
The terms 'oppose' and 'support' are being used loosely here. I don't "support" him, for the very reasons you mention. I listed the reasons he was growing on me, and I stand by those reasons. Given a choice between him and Hillary or Biden, its going to be him. Maybe with flow too. That doesn't mean we "support" him, and my disgust with some of his tweets doesn't mean I "oppose" him. Oppose and support were not the nature of my original answer.
As I said, call that pattern whatever name you want. If Comey and Stzrok don't go to jail, none of us are immune from everything we know a totalitarian regime is. They did what they did to personally determine an election, and one of them was the head of the national police. Call what what you want. In Peru its a coup.
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All-In [42151]
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Re: Do you really think you need that adolescent "er" ####?
May 6, 2020, 1:17 AM
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Didn't say anything condescending to you, and don't get irritated when someone quotes your own words. You said "deep state," then said you didn't. Now that's fine if you didn't mean it like that, but don't claim you didn't say it. Your irritation here is coming through in your post. Keep it in check. No one has insulted you.
-Who cares what he was called? He should have closed off Europe sooner. I don't know if it would have been a game changer. But I know what actually happened was a fail.
-I don't believe I said you support him or that you're a Trump supporter. I'm contradicting your insinuation that opposing Trump = the left, and it's much more than that. The myth that Trump is conservative or that he is supported by conservatives must be stamped out, and if the GOP doesn't do it, it's going to cost them in a lot of ways long after Trump is gone.
-The same Comey who sent a letter to Congress about Hillary's emails just weeks before the election, and then her poll numbers dropped shortly after? He sucks at this if his goal was to sway an election for Hillary.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Yes, I'm irritated you used that "er" ####, and yes
May 8, 2020, 10:27 AM
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it is condescending. If keeping it in check means I don't call you on it, no, I wont keep it in check. In all other ways I have.
I said fine, he should have closed off Europe sooner. Okay, you got him on that. Great.
Yes, that Comey.
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All-In [42151]
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Re: Yes, I'm irritated you used that "er" ####, and yes
May 8, 2020, 11:14 AM
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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That's Fran, to you.***
May 8, 2020, 3:27 PM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Points of contention
May 5, 2020, 1:44 PM
[ in reply to Points of contention ] |
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You can include Hillary and Biden though.
Democrats nominated one of the only people that couldn't beat Trump in 2016. Man, what a terrible candidate she was/is. Bernie would have beat Trump, but we all know what the DNC did to him!
And now it looks like Biden will get the nomination. Say what you want about Trump, but Biden can't even remember what state he is in. He can't speak without gaffe after gaffe. I can't imagine him negotiating on the world stage. A vote for him is a vote for his VP. Which very well may end up being Hillary.
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All-In [46824]
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I think yall missed the whole "currently" part
May 5, 2020, 1:48 PM
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I'm not asking where your support is when you elected him in 2016. I mean where does it currently lie.
Hillary hasn't been relevant since 2016 so what's the point to bring her up in your support of trump in 2020?
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Rock Defender [53]
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It’s really pretty simple for me
May 5, 2020, 7:09 PM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Points of contention
May 5, 2020, 1:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: Points of contention ] |
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Also, your explanation of why there is no deep state is frustrating.there are facts that point to a conspiracy to undermine the presidency. Call it whatever the hell you want.
You pushing it off as just general incompetence/a couple bad eggs is absurd. You have agreed to the statements below. It's not some wacky theories.
Hillary Clinton paid an opposition research firm, who hired Christopher Steele to dig up bad information on Trump.
Christopher Steele's work led to the Steele Dossier.
The Steele Dossier, along with corrupt FBI officals were used to start a multi year, international investigation on Donald Trump and his campaign.
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All-In [42151]
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Re: Points of contention
May 5, 2020, 1:55 PM
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You can keep ranting that it exists, but that don't make it so. All you have is a bunch of circumstantial evidence that doesn't prove some mega grand Legion of Doom Deep State.
If the Deep State really existed, Trump would have never sniffed the White House.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Points of contention
May 5, 2020, 2:27 PM
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I'm not saying that it points to some super secret legion of doom deep state.
I'm saying that this "circumstantial" evidence points to a conspiracy to remove the President of the United States. And that is a very big deal, my friend
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All-In [42151]
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Re: Points of contention
May 5, 2020, 2:55 PM
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If you want to argue that a few people got together to try to remove the president, okay, argue that. You've argued something much greater, and Deep State isn't what you've stated in this post.
Still doesn't explain Mueller and the Republicans who pushed forward with it.
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All-In [42151]
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Re: Points of contention
May 5, 2020, 1:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: Points of contention ] |
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Democrats nominated one of the only people that couldn't beat Trump in 2016. Man, what a terrible candidate she was/is. Bernie would have beat Trump, but we all know what the DNC did to him!
Hey, look. We agree for once.
And now it looks like Biden will get the nomination. Say what you want about Trump, but Biden can't even remember what state he is in. He can't speak without gaffe after gaffe. I can't imagine him negotiating on the world stage. A vote for him is a vote for his VP. Which very well may end up being Hillary.
I agree here as well but Trump is also a senile creep. His mind isn't there, either. So, I dunno, pick a senile creeper and run with it, I guess.
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Oculus Spirit [93662]
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Re: Points of contention
May 5, 2020, 3:53 PM
[ in reply to Points of contention ] |
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The deep state turned out to be a dozen or so people who ran the FBI, CIA, NSA and State Department. Can I call it 'shallow state,' which has been mostly fired?
Trump has always been a democrat but happened to be a traditional democrat and was the anti-obama. Your party has been moving to the left and is about to move so far in the direction you won't be a democrat any longer. An avowed socialist was the democrat second choice for nomination this cycle.
Trump didn't run as a true conservative. A true conservative couldn't have won due to the overton window radical movement to 'the left,' over the last 100 years capped off by Obama. Thanks Obama!
So no, the majority of America is the left relative to those at or near the same age as me.
I could whataboutism here or I could have made those statements accusing the left of moving toward Chinese/Russian communist over giving federal government too much power and you could whataboutism me.
The left's position is "America is divided because of Trump. Come over to the left and reunite America." That's stupid rhetoric and no one is falling for it.
My complaints about Trump's dealing with this virus are much stronger and founded in facts than yours. Waiting too long to deal with it? No, the timing of shutting down travel from China on Jan 31 was as soon as possible because we had only five confirmed cases of the virus at the time. You are not rewriting this history. At the time Fauci and every other bureaucrat was telling American to keep on behaving like normal including Pelosi, De Blasio and other dem governors.
When the bureaucrats came around Trump began to listen to them. He depended on the NIH, CDC and FDA to advise him and Brix plainly told America that Trump listened to them and acted upon their advice. You aren't rewriting history about this either.
His popularity rating is...
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/495695-trump-hits-49-percent-approval-rate-in-gallup-poll
So no, polls show the left hates him.
Yeah, we kinda knew Trump was a democrat but once again, many believe the democrat party moved off to the left and abandoned them. Trump carrying the blue collar vote kinda tells the story of how traditional democrats feel about their party.
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Legend [18021]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Deweather are you sure those numbers are true?
May 5, 2020, 7:23 PM
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Orange Blooded [2018]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 3077
Joined: 7/30/04
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Re: Points of contention
May 8, 2020, 10:51 AM
[ in reply to Re: Points of contention ] |
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Trump was a democrat. He has changed his views drastically from those days. Many people I know were progressive thinking until they had a few years out in the real world. Plus a few years away from our liberal education system.
Trump has changed on many issues from years past and I am sure it has a lot to do with spiritual growth.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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CU Medallion [50635]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43019
Joined: 12/3/98
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joe biden said no one will ever be deported unles they
May 5, 2020, 2:10 PM
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commit a felony
make it into the us you win
game over
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Oculus Spirit [93662]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95412
Joined: 12/25/09
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7 of 10, imo.
May 5, 2020, 3:13 PM
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Rather than go through the long list of Trump's accomplishments let me qualify the 3 points missing from my 7 of 10. This will be a recap of my complaints about Trump during this viral epidemic.
Trump's first mistake was not shutting down EU travel when he shutdown China. His second mistake was not admitting that the CDC put the greenie weenie in America by demanding that they were the only people allowed to test and report the results. For weeks we went without accurate testing and it appears we still may lack accurate testing results above 70%. That is a complete crock full of it.
Trump appeared to be allowing the FDA and NIH to wag the dog too. You say science, science says educated guesses are not part of science. I did not like that the bureaucrats in the FDA, NIH and CDC told us to not report to hospitals until we presented three symptoms, a fever over 103, a hacking cough and shortness of breath. Basically they told us we weren't important enough to be treated by medical professionals until we were borderline too far gone to survive.
I didn't like that with the results of studies showing HCQ was effective for treating the virus especially when the virus was identified and treated early at the same time telling us to wait until we're almost dead to seek treatment.
I didn't like that Trump resolved that we could get a sufficient number of mask and such PPE that only met the demands of the healthcare workers. He should have DPAed a billion N95 mask with no valves and a billion doses of HCQ a month ago.
I don't like that his press conference turned into twitter fights between the most powerful man on earth and a bunch of political hacks like the MSM. He should have risen above that.
I really don't care what you think about my issues with Trump. I'm just recapping my disapprovals so I won't forget them.
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