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All-In [30593]
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Hypothetical question for business minded fans....
Dec 4, 2012, 11:17 PM
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I am curious as to you guys thoughts on this. We know that SCU is making a lot more money than Clemson, and that makes a difference. So, if we were going to try and stay in the ACC, and that was best... how would you solve this problem?
Ok.. so if you are Swofford (I know, I know)... how would you combat the following in order to keep the ACC together?
Let's look at the problem he faces in two parts. Here is the first part, beginning:
1. The ACC TV contract is significantly less than other conferences, and ACC schools get significantly less money.
2. Beginning in 2014, the Sugar Bowl (SEC and Big12) pays out $80 mil.
3. The Rose (B1G and PAC) pays out $85 mil or so.
4 The Orange (ACC vs. ND/SEC/B1G) only pays $55 mil)
Here is the 2nd Part:
1. It is believed (and rightfully so) that the 4 team playoff money will be substantial.
2. The ACC does not have a path to the Sugar, like the SEC does to the Orange.
3. If the ACC doesn't get a team in the playoffs, this is the disadvantage the conference is faced with:
If the SEC/PAC/B1G/B12 all get one team in the playoffs, those conferences all get to share the playoff money. However, the B1G and PAC will also have teams in the Rose (85 mil)... the SEC and B12 will also have teams in the Suger (80 mil).
The ACC will have a team in the Orange vs. either ND/SEC/B1G (only 55 mil).
This year would be a great example of how the SEC absolutely OWNS the system and makes a ton of money.
So... how do you convince schools, especially those with instate SEC rivals, to stay in the conference?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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i lobby the state legislature to hold back the difference
Dec 4, 2012, 11:21 PM
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from scar's annual budget request.
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Hall of Famer [24758]
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Hire the BEST anti-trust law firm and break up this BS.***
Dec 4, 2012, 11:21 PM
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Legend [18133]
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^^^This^^^***
Dec 5, 2012, 9:44 AM
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110%er [7913]
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this isn't a monopoly...the conferences are putting out a
Dec 5, 2012, 9:48 AM
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product and obviously the product is better in some conferences vs. others. The product the ACC is putting out there is only worth a certain amount vs the SEC, others. We are in a conf with other schools who simply don't care about winning in football like we do. That's been the case my entire life and it's not going to change.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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pretty much. niu in the orange bowl was the most recent
Dec 5, 2012, 9:55 AM
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anti-trust concession to teams with no clear path to the bcs.
there will more than likely be new challenges once the playoff system unfolds.
and new concessions.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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I would threaten them with a $50 million exit fee
Dec 4, 2012, 11:23 PM
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and hope nobody sits down and does the math like Maryland did, where they realize they'll quickly make 4 times that much in a couple years tops.
Oh wait, too late.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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were we making too much noise?***
Dec 4, 2012, 11:24 PM
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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As usual***
Dec 4, 2012, 11:29 PM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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sorry, someone cracked a beer...
Dec 4, 2012, 11:32 PM
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things got outta hand after that.
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110%er [6692]
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Get Notre Dame and Penn St.
Dec 4, 2012, 11:24 PM
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With the schools in the ACC that focus on basketball we need two prominent football programs that draw a lot of TV ratings.
Other than that there's not much for the ACC to do unless Miami, VT, FSU, and Clemson become world beaters again and teams like NC St., GT, and BC get back to being above average (if they really were above average to begin with).
ESPN hooked their wagon to the SEC and basically told every other conference to f@#$ off.
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All-In [30593]
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I'm not sure "winning" solves this problem....
Dec 4, 2012, 11:28 PM
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maybe it does, b/c it would put at least one team in the playoff (hopefully).
But the Bowl deals are done (Sugar and Rose). Would winning mean the Orange Bowl became worth more?
Also there's the problem of the SEC being in a position to make money on Sugar/Orange/ and playoffs. They could have two teams in the playoffs, a team in the Sugar, and a team in the Orange on any given year.
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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i'm now sure how we win when the money gap is widening
Dec 4, 2012, 11:33 PM
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to me its only going to get worse.
What am I missing?
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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From a commpetitive standpoint, I don't see how ACC schools
Dec 4, 2012, 11:32 PM
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can close the CURRENT gap with schools from SEC and elsewhere given the money gap is widening. If anything, over the long run won't this devolve into more of a secondary league almost like a MAC or WAC?
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All-In [30593]
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That is exactly how I see it.... in 2014... there is the
Dec 4, 2012, 11:33 PM
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potential for the current money gap (already large) to double
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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that isn't sustainable for programs that want to compete at
Dec 4, 2012, 11:36 PM
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the top level. It just isn't. For a Duke and a Wake and I'll go as far as to say even for a UVA and a NCSt, fine.
But for a FSU and Clemson and a VT, those who ASPIRE to compete at the top and have fan bases who show out and expect it, I just don't see how its sustainable.
Look I want to have close by games and I wan to play all the original ACC schools, but I also want a handful of constitutional amendments repealed and it isn't going to happen. The reality is, the ACC is broken.
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110%er [7913]
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It's been broken for a while
Dec 5, 2012, 8:13 AM
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I think the conference didn't understand early on the impact football was having in taking over the tv market place. Football is by far and away king. Regular season basketball which the ACC hung their hat on doesn't drive ratings.
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Starter [390]
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Re: will not be able to compete if CU stays in ACC
Dec 4, 2012, 11:45 PM
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$$$$ difference is too great
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CU Guru [1053]
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Lawyer up and attack
Dec 4, 2012, 11:50 PM
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#### the grant of rights. I pay the best lawyers I can find from my good old boy network and I secure membership to the ACC from Texas and Oklahoma. This would immediately flip the tables on the Big and they would dissolve. The. I go to Slive and ask him if he'd like to rethink that champions bowl with the big 12 and opt for ACC instead. Then I go to espn and say pay up. If they don't, I say #### you and I bring fox, NBC, and CBS into the negotiations for tv rights. Generate a bidding war. Then I go to YouTube and create a streaming application for Xbox, Apple TV, etc that allows anyone to stream all ACc games LIVE. Offer the app to viewers at a flat cost of $50/year or whatever and it guarantees no blackouts. Then I round up all member institutes and have a come to Jesus meeting. Either you commit to the programs that generate revenue for the conference or you gtfo. You get paid based on your performance. Priority payments given for ooc and bowl game wins.
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Orange Blooded [2480]
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^Post Of The Decade^***
Dec 5, 2012, 2:32 AM
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Orange Blooded [4896]
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Perfect but would add
Dec 5, 2012, 9:41 AM
[ in reply to Lawyer up and attack ] |
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Restructure the way teams receive bowl money. The team getting to the bowl should get their expense allowance and then 50% of the remaining revenue with only 50% going to the conference to be split.
Next take the TV money and spread it to the teams on a points system based on final ranking. The higher the ranking the larger the % of the TV money.
As long as teams like Duke can effectively spend next to nothing on their football program and redirect all the conference football $s to basketball and who know what else they will never have an incentive to have a good football program.
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CU Guru [1053]
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Re: Perfect but would add
Dec 5, 2012, 11:14 AM
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Yeah, you are right. There are a lot of structure options you can go with, but I didn't want to get into them so I left it simply at the priority payments for OOC and Bowl games.
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Amateur [36]
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Re: Hypothetical question for business minded fans....
Dec 4, 2012, 11:51 PM
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Aside from coaching salary, what are some good examples of what SEC schools are doing with this extra money that Clemson is not doing with its lack of money? I'm not being sarcastic, I just find it hard to see the money directly transfer into on-the-field results. Alabama, LSU, Florida, and Georgia are good because of their name and their history/tradition - not because of how much money they have. Money certainly helps, but in the end a recruit isn't picking his school by looking at their bottom line (except Cam Newton). They choose traditional powerhouses simply because it's a self fulfilling prophecy - a 'good' school attracts good recruits and good coaches, continuing the success and further cementing its status as a 'good' football school.
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CU Guru [1895]
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Yep
Dec 4, 2012, 11:56 PM
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Also add that Louiville has a bigger athletic budget than us and they make even less in the Big East. TV money isn't everything. Maryland needed a bailout and the B1G gave it to them and that is pretty much all there is to it.
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Commissioner [933]
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The acc
Dec 5, 2012, 12:11 AM
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Has to create a valuable product to warrant receiving more money. Basketball and baseball are fine even though baseball doesn't generate much if any revenue, it's still considered one of the big three sports.
What the sec has done is create a brand that promotes football over everything since they could see it generates the most revenue, now conferences are only about revenue and realignment makes no sense geographically and we are headed for 4 super conferences. The sec schools stick together when they suck and say hey we are in the sec, and when they do something good they pound their chests and say "sec". They pull for each other in bowls etc.
They know the acc is their geographic rival, they have more students, more alums, more money...and if they are our main rival conference then if we go to four super conferences one of us has to go, and the funny thing is, we drew first blood in all this.
Swofford has to send the memo that fb teams need to take serious measures to stay eligible and competitive if they want to remain affiliated, Louisville has shown their commitment to athletics. We really need penn state, but would they take less money to come? The tv contract for the acc is a debacle, but if we get nd and psu for football that will change quick.
If the acc, with smaller schools, better overall academics, and a number of sleeping giants does start to beat the sec on a regular basis, the sec will have to revalidate why they deserve so much concession other than just filling their own stadiums.
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CU Medallion [55393]
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Re: The acc
Dec 5, 2012, 12:30 AM
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Most answers are full of if if if if if. If a bull frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his A$$ at every move. If Clemson was in the sec, would we care about how really bad the acc sucks.
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Hall of Famer [24758]
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The NCAA still controls academic standards. That's the big
Dec 5, 2012, 12:35 AM
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trump card that's yet to be played.
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Starter [393]
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The thing is...
Dec 5, 2012, 12:42 AM
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where's the guarantee that this huge money is still there 10 years from now? People thought the housing market was on a never ending upward trend. Same with internet stocks. In the 1940's the two biggest sports were baseball and boxing. People were laughing at the NFL. While it doesn't seem likely, we could be on a bubble here in terms of TV money. All it takes is for a few of the heavy hitter companies to put their advertising dollars to, perhaps, better use and then where is ESPN? Struggling, that's where. If you rush to money grab now, it's not inconceivable that 10 years down the road Maryland is sending it's teams all over creation to play and is in worse shape financially than it is now. In a way, I believe that some of this conference realignment is actually shortsighted. Nobody's out there thinking worst case scenario. Businessmen usally take this into serious consideration, well, the smart ones anyway. Maybe I'm just too pessimistic. Anyhow, that's how I would try to sell it as commish. Granted, it's a tough sale.
The problem, of course, is that if FSU leaves or Ga Tech, Va Tech etc., Clemson is almost obligated to and least try and follow, because the money may not dry up and you have to remain relevant.
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All-In [25393]
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York, anytime the dollars begin adding up, and
Dec 5, 2012, 6:40 AM
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there is a perception of exclusivity in the business world, litigation follows. There appears to be a growing resentment nationwide against certain entities, ESPN in particular, rightly or wrongly, that the playing field is becoming unlevel, at least regarding collegiate football. I believe that somewhere, sometime Congress will involve itself (as it is wont to do even in the most unusual circumstances,) and there will be either an investigation or inquiry directed through the Justice Department, which could result in a probe.
Meanwhile, the ACC members, who orient strongly toward football, are simply going to have to be more assertive within the organization demanding greater focus toward the ACC product. There is no reason why half of the members couldn't have better programs, providing the effort is there. And, my Friend, I promise: excellent product DOES sell! Imagine a resurgent Clemson, FSU, VT, GT, Miami, Pitt, UNC, NC State (Not to slight other members)...The networks would salivate to feature their games. My attitude is simply that it is time NOW for the ACC members to cr@p and get off the pot, as regards their football programs...and Swofford to insist on such himself.
Message was edited by: hartins®
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110%er [7913]
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I don't see most of those programs you listed having
Dec 5, 2012, 8:07 AM
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sustained success for a variety of reasons...
1. GT doesn't have the ability to compete on a national stage with their academic requirements. They have decided to be MIT M-F and try to be Bama on Saturday. It just doesn't work. Also their donors/fans are so weak their AD just left for here.
2. The Miami program has lost most of it momentum when they fired Coker and now it's headed to probation.
3. Pitt hasn't been good since I was 8 yrs old...I turned 40 this yr.
4. NC has never really cared about football...it's merely something they do before basketball starts. I wouldn't be surprised to see Fedora leave for Tenn.
5. NC State is merely a stepping stone job. If a young guy starts to win there he's going to leave for another job quickly.
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All-In [25393]
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I don't disagree with what you're saying, and that's why
Dec 5, 2012, 8:47 AM
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I used the word "imagine." It would take a heck of a renewed or new committment. Unfortunately, that may well be wishful thinking...and why I generally have held the same view about the ACC since my days at CU in the mid-60's.
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110%er [7913]
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agreed.....the ACC simply doesn't have the fan bases
Dec 5, 2012, 8:57 AM
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at most schools that DEMAND a winner in football. Really there are only three....us, VT, and FSU. Outside of that it's good if they win but not that big of a deal. GT fans simply don't show up and their stadium doesn't sell out unless us or GA are in town. Miami doesn't sell out unless the FSU fans come to town. NC State supports their program pretty well but that's not a program with enough resources to win long term.
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110%er [7913]
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there really isn't a solution to this problem outside of
Dec 5, 2012, 8:03 AM
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leaving and joining one of the power 4 conferences.
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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Re: Hypothetical question for business minded fans....
Dec 5, 2012, 8:58 AM
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You get congress to dissolve the monopolistic relationships...
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Oculus Spirit [81892]
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It appears if they're creating that much discrepancy between
Dec 5, 2012, 9:07 AM
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the BCS bowls, then they need to eliminate the ties and let them go through a selection process completely.
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Legend [17283]
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Negotiate a better TV contract. ESPN has as much to lose ...
Dec 5, 2012, 9:50 AM
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as the ACC. FOX and NBC are intruding on their markets.
I have seen articles that SEC football had it's lowest ratings in years. Last year's NC game had low ratings. Bowl games have for the most part poor attendance. Except for gamblers - not sure who watches them. Guess sports bars use televised bowl game as energy intensive lighting. The college football bubble is showing signs of cracking. Expected future earnings have more risk. I would be leary of forecasted future profitability based upon the last ten year trend. Competetition from other forms of entertainment and other sports entertainment is significant. Demographics would indicate soccer may be the wave of the future. The ACC should expand into Central and South America for that market. Clemson should convert Death Valley to soccer and Riggs Field to football. But I digress - what was the question?
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All-American [591]
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Just think how much money they are going to make on SEC
Dec 5, 2012, 10:09 AM
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cable channel when it is in place.
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Devotee [304]
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Maybe a whole different approach
Dec 5, 2012, 11:53 AM
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I wonder if anyone has considered contraction instead of expansion. Forget adding Pitt, Cuse, and Louisville. Boot Wake, Miami, BC. Close ranks and divide the pie 8 ways instead of 14.
If you are willing to concede that the ACC contracts will never equal the other conferences, then reducing the number of shares would be a way to close the gap on a school vs. school basis.
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