|
Replies: 39
| visibility 1,426
|
Orange Blooded [4995]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 8298
Joined: 10/8/08
|
Question for the Christian gun owners....
Sep 12, 2017, 4:50 PM
|
|
How do you reconcile the argument that is prevalent among God fearing good ol' boys all across the south that we should be allowed to have guns for protection with Luke 6:30 which says:
"Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back."
|
|
|
|
 |
All-TigerNet [12098]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6709
Joined: 8/3/09
|
i didn't know an inanimate object like a gun
Sep 12, 2017, 4:53 PM
|
|
could be of a certain religious persuasion.
I better go make sure I don't own any Muslim guns.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12896
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: i didn't know an inanimate object like a gun
Sep 12, 2017, 5:30 PM
|
|
I'll trade you a Muslim gun for a Christian gun. Got any Buddhist guns? ??
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1097]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 511
Joined: 2/9/00
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26670]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15943
Joined: 4/12/07
|
I'll compromise with you.
Sep 12, 2017, 5:11 PM
|
|
If someone takes a shotgun shell from me, in the chest, while they are rummaging around in the middle of the night in my house...
I won't ask for it back.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12896
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: Question for the Christian gun owners....
Sep 12, 2017, 5:24 PM
|
|
You've posted here before that you own several guns. How do you feel?
I'm not a Christian but ill defend the Christian faith here: I don't think that verse and others like it mean what some of us think it means.
No, i dont think Jesus meant for a Christian to literally turn the other cheek and get his ### handed to him in the process.
I don't think Jesus literally meant for a Christian to give his last belongings and go naked, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4995]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 8298
Joined: 10/8/08
|
Re: Question for the Christian gun owners....
Sep 12, 2017, 5:37 PM
|
|
Yes I own several guns. All but one are for hunting. I own one handgun. The point really isn't about gun ownership, it's about the fact that the people who defend gun ownership do so on the grounds that we should be allowed to protect ourselves and lot of the same people claim to be a follower of Jesus.
I'm not saying you are wrong in how you interpret that verse BUT....Jesus did exactly what you say he didn't mean there when he went to the cross. When Stephen was stoned to death in Acts 7 it says that he prayed for the people who murdered him....
I'm not attacking anyone here it's just something that I've wondered about. There are a lot of things that Jesus said that seem to be ignored.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12896
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: Question for the Christian gun owners....
Sep 12, 2017, 6:16 PM
|
|
Jesus did. We're not Jesus, we didn't come to earth to save humanity.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4995]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 8298
Joined: 10/8/08
|
Re: Question for the Christian gun owners....
Sep 12, 2017, 6:38 PM
|
|
We're not Jesus, but we're told to strive to be like him and noones perfect....but there's a difference in having flaws that you recognize and try to get rid of and having the attitude that if someone tries to take my stuff I'm putting a bullet in their chest.....
And that is the attitude among most of the people I grew up around. I'm sure you could find a lot of them in Conway.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12896
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: Question for the Christian gun owners....
Sep 12, 2017, 6:43 PM
|
|
I wouldnt put a bullet in someone for stealing out of my yard, but come in the house and its a different story. ??
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12896
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: Question for the Christian gun owners....
Sep 12, 2017, 6:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: Question for the Christian gun owners.... ] |
|
But, since were thinking Jesus was being literal, next time at Market Common, i expect you to stand there and let me beat you to a pulp.
Just joking ??
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4995]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 8298
Joined: 10/8/08
|
Re: Question for the Christian gun owners....
Sep 12, 2017, 6:38 PM
|
|
You do realize I was completely joking when I said that right?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12896
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: Question for the Christian gun owners....
Sep 12, 2017, 6:42 PM
|
|
That's why I said just joking.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6101]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 10117
Joined: 11/1/11
|
Re: Gun owners are bigger proponents of constitutional rights I would wager.
Sep 12, 2017, 9:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: Question for the Christian gun owners.... ] |
|
The Bible seems secondary and probably wouldn't overrule how the worlds largest standing army feels about their weapons.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [97634]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64772
Joined: 7/13/02
|
I have a question for all the pangender gun owners
Sep 12, 2017, 5:32 PM
|
|
When you take your guns and shoot them, do you feel more male or female that day? And if that makes you feel more female, how can you reconcile that with the misogynistic male patriarchal assumption that guns are manly or masculine?
Tia
PS. I refuse to answer a stupid question with anything less than another stupid question.
Message was edited by: Tiggity®
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4995]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 8298
Joined: 10/8/08
|
Message removed by Author
Sep 12, 2017, 5:47 PM
|
|
Message removed by Author
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [97634]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64772
Joined: 7/13/02
|
Because I see no connection other than a tenuous stereotype***
Sep 12, 2017, 7:50 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
The context of Luke 6 is spiritual persecution...
Sep 12, 2017, 5:49 PM
|
|
Not crime and personal property.
The lesson is that suffering in the name of Christ was to be expected for those disciples, and they should be encouraged in their eternal reward for that suffering, not despair over the loss of the temporal.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4995]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 8298
Joined: 10/8/08
|
Re: The context of Luke 6 is spiritual persecution...
Sep 12, 2017, 6:15 PM
|
|
Where in that passage does Jesus imply that he's just speaking of spiritual persecution? Jesus literally lived out his words here....
Verses 27-29 say this:
"But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also. And from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either."
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12896
Joined: 8/10/13
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4995]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 8298
Joined: 10/8/08
|
Re: The entire passage.***
Sep 13, 2017, 1:40 PM
|
|
Forgive me but that sounds like a cop out....
Matthew's version:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."
I realize everything here is not to be taken literally, but the point Jesus was making here is we should be gentle, merciful, quick to forgive and slow to anger....certainly not fighting for our right to tote a .40 caliber on our hip....
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
What I mean is that you have to take in the passage
Sep 15, 2017, 7:30 AM
|
|
in its entirety, to see the context, and also compare it with other Scripture. See specifically verse 22.
I wouldn't say that Christians should go around gloating about how happy they'd be to see some thief step foot on their property, so they can send them to their God. (And I've heard that before.) But I don't think Jesus would want us to yield our families to be hurt or killed, because we're supposed to "turn the other cheek".
I know we don't follow the Old Testament Law, but there are allowances for justified killings there, and one specifically is about killing a thief (Exodus 22:2). So the Bible does address the topic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34089]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33587
Joined: 9/13/99
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4995]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 8298
Joined: 10/8/08
|
Re: People are reinterpreting it,
Sep 13, 2017, 11:40 AM
|
|
Sadly the more I read and study the Bible especially the teachings of Jesus the more I realize this to be true.
I don't think there is any doubt if Jesus walked the earth today he would be considered a liberal snowflake.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
I like the new JHop***
Sep 12, 2017, 6:25 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12896
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: I like the new JHop***
Sep 12, 2017, 6:34 PM
|
|
LOL He does seem more reasonable EXCEPT when he is making predictions about Irma and the Clemson/Auburn game. ??
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4995]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 8298
Joined: 10/8/08
|
Re: I like the new JHop***
Sep 12, 2017, 6:43 PM
|
|
It's easy to get em going on the main board. I'm serious about the hill though. Dabo has destroyed it....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4995]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 8298
Joined: 10/8/08
|
Re: I like the new JHop***
Sep 12, 2017, 6:43 PM
[ in reply to I like the new JHop*** ] |
|
I'm the same old Jhop.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17854]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8917
Joined: 12/24/96
|
He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.
Sep 12, 2017, 9:00 PM
|
|
Is that a condemnation or a consequence that Jesus speaks of in Matthew?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [48763]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38776
Joined: 12/31/97
|
Wasn't it an admonition
Sep 13, 2017, 1:45 PM
|
|
against retaliatory violence?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17854]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8917
Joined: 12/24/96
|
I don't agree entirely with that
Sep 13, 2017, 2:45 PM
|
|
He who lives by the sword" is figurative of one who depends on the sword to settle conflict, I believe, in most every circumstance. The old, "I will settle this and have my way" attitude. There are times where violence is not the proper response for a wrong against ones person. Even when that wrong is violent in nature itself. See Stephen.
In this particular case, Jesus was also definitively going to the cross AND it was not Peter's place to try and stop what was coming or what was being done. Jesus had to suffer.
Now, my original question was asked because again, I believe, in this instance Jesus is stating there is a consequence that [anyone] who defends himself with a [sword] is in danger of also dying by the sword as that can escalate the situation to a much greater plain than the respondent can handle - but it is not a condemnation for one who does.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6536]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4992
Joined: 10/31/04
|
Re: Question for the Christian gun owners....
Sep 12, 2017, 9:01 PM
|
|
I consider myself a Christian. I think every person on this planet has the basic fundamental human right
to defend themselves from physical harm and death. In a home invasion / burglary scenario the homeowner doesn't know the intent of the perpetrator(s). Better safe than dead.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4995]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 8298
Joined: 10/8/08
|
Re: Question for the Christian gun owners....
Sep 13, 2017, 11:44 AM
|
|
I understand that....but Tigerbalm is right when he says that people are much more likely to use a gun on themselves than on a burglar.
This is one of the main battles "conservative Christians" fight but yet it doesn't really seem necessary based on the above fact AND it completely contradicts the attitude that Christ told us we should have.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6101]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 10117
Joined: 11/1/11
|
Re: What about nonChristian gun owners?
Sep 12, 2017, 9:07 PM
|
|
What do they do?
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6536]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4992
Joined: 10/31/04
|
Re: What about nonChristian gun owners?
Sep 12, 2017, 9:18 PM
|
|
Kel-tec is there for you.
JK
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7718]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7444
Joined: 1/10/16
|
Re: Question for the Christian gun owners....
Sep 13, 2017, 11:51 AM
|
|
Mother of god
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93582]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95371
Joined: 12/25/09
|
My 1st P&R poast in a while.
Sep 14, 2017, 9:17 AM
|
|
I know you are seeking understanding so I'll try to give you some perspective on this. See if you can balance Luke 6:30 and this one.
1 Tim 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
Luke 6:30 requires me to consider others over myself. It requires me to consider others over my own desire and preferences. It does not require me to expose myself, my health and therefor the welfare of those for whom I am responsible.
Gun ownership has nothing to do with Luke 6:30 and Luke 6:30 has nothing to do with gun ownership. 1 Tim 5:8 may be more what you want to consider if you're deciding whether or not God wants you to have a gun. God never cared one way or the other on anything I own as long as it didn't come between us.
I've seen time when I owned a gun and I've seen time when I didn't. I never put any trust in a gun. I gave all my trust away one Feb about 45 years ago. He hasn't given it back so far. Guns never came up in our daily conversation.
If you want to know why God brought Luke 6:30 to your attention and what He expects of you, you should ask Him. I know you can handle Tim 5:8 on your own.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4995]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 8298
Joined: 10/8/08
|
Re: My 1st P&R poast in a while.
Sep 14, 2017, 10:04 AM
|
|
Thanks for the thoughtful response. Been wondering where you've been. Hope everything is ok....
I probably worded my op poorly. It's not really about gun ownership. I understand that there are rare circumstances where having one might mean the difference between life and death and I agree with the poster that said we have the right to protect ourselves.
That being said, I don't believe anybody is out to take our guns and it seems to me that this battle is an odd battle for someone to take up who claims to be a follower of Christ. For the record, I'm preaching to myself out loud with this thread. I've always been one to aggressively defend my right to carry but recently have thought about the fact that Jesus didn't carry a sword.....Paul didn't carry a sword....his mission was to show the love of Christ to everyone he encountered, even people who were trying to hurt him.
Something else that has been bothering me lately is the problem of refugees. Listening to friends and family members rant and rave about how we shouldn't let them in just seems awful contradictory to the Christian message. If ONE refugee came to know Christ wouldn't it be worth it even though there's a small chance it could jeopardize our safety?
It seems to me that that is the attitude Christians should bring to the table, but you don't see that.....and those that do have that attitude are labeled "snowflakes". I can't help but see a lot of similarities between the conservative Christians of today and the Pharisees of Jesus's day.
One more thing. Does carrying a concealed weapon show that we truly have our trust in God?
Message was edited by: Jhop83®
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93582]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95371
Joined: 12/25/09
|
I'm fully aware that all your questions regarding...
Sep 14, 2017, 6:14 PM
|
|
the Bible are related to your seeking answers. It's refreshing to see anyone who is a curious about the truths of God's Word as you. Sometimes you appear to come across as trolling but I can usually understand what you want to know.
Tell you a story. I was confused about whether or not to adopt a quadriplegic boy in his early teens. y wife wanted to take care of him but I didn't think we could handle it. She nagged me until I agreed to pray about it. I put it off for two days and when I finally got around to asking God what I should do He simply said, 'Since when do I have to tell you right from wrong?'
If you know right from wrong why ask? Why seek if you've found, why knock if the door is wide open? God just wants you to walk in what you are.
As far as me carrying a gun, I've never considered needing one. I can't make a broad all inclusive statement as to what other Christians should or shouldn't do about packing a gun. I would never condemn anyone for carrying nor would I disrespect those who don't.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 39
| visibility 1,426
|
|
|
50
