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CU Guru [1146]
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One riddle Brownell dumpers can't figure out...
Mar 1, 2015, 6:09 PM
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If you were to fire Brownell (who has had nothing but success in his career before Clemson basketball), who would YOU hire?
Not going to call anyone out but I'm legitimately curious what names you/they will throw around?
My guess:
Shaka Smart or some very unrealistic option that's very similar..
Otherwise, I'm sure they have no realistic options.
Brownell is the best X's and O's coach here since Barnes.
Hate on his playing style or his weakness in recruiting (or is Clemson tradition the weakness?), but the dude can flat out coach.
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Starter [366]
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Re: One riddle Brownell dumpers can't figure out...
Mar 1, 2015, 6:18 PM
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Bingo!!!
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Trainer [25]
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Re: One riddle Brownell dumpers can't figure out...
Mar 1, 2015, 6:24 PM
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He can coach you right into the Brownell Classic (NIT) if he's lucky.
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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Re: One riddle Brownell dumpers can't figure out...
Mar 1, 2015, 11:15 PM
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While martin coaches you right into the living room by the tv
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Legend [19352]
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Re: One riddle Brownell dumpers can't figure out...
Mar 1, 2015, 6:20 PM
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Quit telling me how great of a coach he is because it's not translating into anything meaningful like NCAA appearances.
You all like to say he could win with better players, but it's his job to bring the players in.
If you pay someone to mow your yard and it looks like crap are you gonna be ok with it just because the blades aren't sharp? Let that sink in.
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110%er [5010]
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yep, let that @&$$ sink in...***
Mar 1, 2015, 6:22 PM
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Orange Blooded [2253]
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110%er [5962]
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Re: One riddle Brownell dumpers can't figure out...
Mar 1, 2015, 8:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: One riddle Brownell dumpers can't figure out... ] |
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> If you pay someone to mow your yard and it looks like
> crap are you gonna be ok with it just because the
> blades aren't sharp? Let that sink in.
What if your yard is just an overgrown field full of weeds that's never been properly taken care of, would it really matter who you get to mow it?
Let that sink in.
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110%er [7831]
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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110%er [5010]
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Out of 100 schools, 64 make it, yet we don't!
Mar 1, 2015, 6:28 PM
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This was his year to show progress. But we are struggling to make it back to the NIT. Ugghhhh.... The NIT again.... Maybe?
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110%er [8095]
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You are WRONG. We were predicted to finish at bottom of ACC
Mar 1, 2015, 6:32 PM
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in the bottom 2.
I'd say finishing in the middle of the ACC this year is pretty good coaching.
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110%er [5962]
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Not to mention the top half of the conference are top 25
Mar 1, 2015, 8:35 PM
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teams with two in the top 5.
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110%er [6981]
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CU Guru [1146]
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Re: You are WRONG. We were predicted to finish at bottom of ACC
Mar 1, 2015, 9:15 PM
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The better question is how do you feel about finishing 7th or 8th or 9th while being picked 13th?
Last year was even more drastic of an overachievement. That's coaching. Nothing else.
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CU Guru [1900]
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110%er [5010]
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Realisticaly, how many basketball programs are contenders?
Mar 1, 2015, 6:37 PM
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Not more than 100 I am sure.
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CU Guru [1900]
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Realistically, the NCAA thinks theres only 64 contenders
Mar 1, 2015, 6:38 PM
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but are there really even that many?
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110%er [5010]
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Yet we can't be in the mix... Ugghhhh...***
Mar 1, 2015, 6:39 PM
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Realisticaly, how many basketball programs are contenders?
Mar 2, 2015, 7:56 AM
[ in reply to Realisticaly, how many basketball programs are contenders? ] |
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If you are counting that way then you need to bring down your 64 number because it is more like 50-60 teams competing for 36 at large bids.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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110%er [5010]
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~100 legit...***
Mar 1, 2015, 6:54 PM
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Legend [19352]
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Re: ~100 legit...***
Mar 2, 2015, 7:57 AM
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Then there are less than 64 slots. You cant have it both ways.
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All-In [29036]
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There are about 33 slots available for us.
Mar 1, 2015, 8:12 PM
[ in reply to Out of 100 schools, 64 make it, yet we don't! ] |
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The ACC bid and the 32 at large. If you're gonna discount many of the other teams in Div1 basketball you have to remove their slots from your calculation.
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110%er [5010]
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i get it, but we may not even make the NIT***
Mar 2, 2015, 6:35 AM
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All-In [28802]
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Funny that this wasn't the first thing pointed out***
Mar 2, 2015, 1:36 AM
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CU Guru [1900]
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I've thought about this in baseball as well
Mar 1, 2015, 6:31 PM
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not so much as "who would you hire" but more in the line of this:
If either Brownell or Jack were to be fired for lack of production, You've got to make a heck of a hire afterwords (and I feel more so in baseball than basketball) I'm talking you've gotta throw money at some big time coaches.
Take basketball for instance, If you fire Brownell who's proven he can coach lesser talent (his talent none the less) above their ability to get deep into the NIT or possibly on the bubble of the NCAA, you cant hire a coach who's never proven he can do anything at this level. If you want to get better at something, you have to make the commitment to that sport instead of hiring somebody nobodies ever heard of and hope he works out.
I think that's starting to happen too with the upgrades coming to the other sports facilities.
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CU Guru [1146]
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Is it Brownell's fault McDaniels left early..?
Mar 1, 2015, 6:35 PM
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We are a dangerous NCAA tourney team with KJ back this year.
Now before the dumpers retract with "it's his job to keep the the bench loaded" which I agree...
but KJ led us in every statistic category possible, there WILL be a drop off.
He is beginning to set his core with Blossomgame and Grantham, Hudson will be huge next year too.
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110%er [5010]
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if we don't make NCAA tournament next year, can we agree
Mar 1, 2015, 6:38 PM
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That it is time for a change?
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CU Guru [1900]
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That depends, does Blossomgame leave early?
Mar 1, 2015, 6:40 PM
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Does Grantham transfer out?
Theres a lot that can happen
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110%er [5010]
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Still a Brownell issue***
Mar 1, 2015, 6:45 PM
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CU Guru [1900]
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You can fault Brownell for not recruiting better
Mar 1, 2015, 6:47 PM
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but he cant force players to stay against their will
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CU Guru [1146]
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Orange Blooded [4550]
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Michael White
Mar 1, 2015, 6:42 PM
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Louisiana Tech
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110%er [5010]
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Then we are waiting 4 more years to be respectsble***
Mar 2, 2015, 7:58 AM
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How the hell do you get 4 years out of that?
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110%er [5010]
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Re: Then we are waiting 4 more years to be respectsble***
Mar 2, 2015, 8:10 AM
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BB needed to show recruits an improving track record. Getting to the dance this year was crucial in that trek.
Without that evidence, selling good talent on "why Clemson basketball" gets much harder. As we all know, BB ain't Dabo in terms of salesmanship skills. He needed some hard evidence to help his recruiting efforts.
Now we will lose out on some key building blocks that are crucial to get into the program this year. Next year, if we are not in the dance, BB's future will be clear. Once the buyout is low enough, it will be new coach time. That starts rebuilding all over again.
4 more years in the wilderness...
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Then we are waiting 4 more years to be respectsble***
Mar 2, 2015, 8:14 AM
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I realize you are a mouth breathing moron but this is what he said...
"If we finish middle of the pack next year [1]
playing out of Greenville, I give him one year at the new John.
If he can't get us to at least bubble talk, I agree a change is needed. "
That is 2 years not 4.
Congrats you are dumber than Queenie.
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110%er [5010]
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Re: Then we are waiting 4 more years to be respectsble***
Mar 2, 2015, 8:27 AM
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And my point is after that, it is 2 more years before we see progress (potentially).
2+2 = 4
So we just need to sit back and relax because we are 4 years away from having hope again. If BB somehow pulls a rabbit out of the hat next year, then we can get all excited that maybe it won't be 4 more years, but odds are....
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Trainer [25]
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Re: Is it Brownell's fault McDaniels left early..?
Mar 1, 2015, 6:40 PM
[ in reply to Is it Brownell's fault McDaniels left early..? ] |
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If Watson doesnt play next season and we finish 4-8 does Dabo get a pass. After all he is the one that didnt recruit another QB last season. By way Dabo does get a pass if that happens but 5 years with no NCAA appearance without OP players does not get Brownell a pass for KJ leaving.
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CU Guru [1900]
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I think the biggest problem is that everyone wants to
Mar 1, 2015, 6:46 PM
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compare the basketball program to the football program in terms of recruiting.
In football you can have 85 scholarship players, yet only 50 may play, if even that many. Thats a lot of room for error (although the football staff has done a great job at talent evaluation) In basketball I believe you only get 13 scholarships. If you take a chance on someone and they dont work out, your really in a bad spot. Add in the fact that most of the top players are pretty much lined up to play at the Dukes/UNC/kentuckys of the world, places like Clemson are stuck recruiting the leftovers of the top schools, making it even more difficult
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110%er [5434]
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Re: I think the biggest problem is that everyone wants to
Mar 2, 2015, 8:41 AM
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I wish everyone would look at baseball recruiting it's the hardest of them all. Plus Clemson is getting railroaded. Other teams get finical aid and Clemson does not.
We are behind the eight ball before we ever start
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110%er [5010]
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BBall is not at same stage as FBall... So no.
Mar 1, 2015, 6:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: Is it Brownell's fault McDaniels left early..? ] |
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Dabo should have a corp of good QBs waiting in the wings, so if DW leaves, there is minimal drop off.
KJ leaving hurt, but the recruits should have at a minimum gotten us to NCAA tournament. Should have been there last year. 2 strikes.
At this point, you cannot harp on talent recruited and players leaving early. That is on Brownell now.
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110%er [5010]
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Is it Brownell's fault McDaniels left early..?
Mar 2, 2015, 7:58 AM
[ in reply to Re: Is it Brownell's fault McDaniels left early..? ] |
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Holy crap you are not very smart...
One player in Basketball is more important than one player in Football due to the nature of the game.
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110%er [5010]
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Re: Is it Brownell's fault McDaniels left early..?
Mar 2, 2015, 8:14 AM
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Yep, which is why coaching BBall is more about recruiting, player development and building strong coach-player relationships and culture will be a pre-requisite to X and Os coaching.
You cannot be dependent on one player only to get you to the dance like that.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Is it Brownell's fault McDaniels left early..?
Mar 2, 2015, 8:16 AM
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Many teams in the past have been dependent on one player.
You remove Lebron from the Cavs and they are a bad team again. You are showing that you know very little about Basketball. I am not shocked by this you show time and time again you know very little about anything sports related.
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110%er [5010]
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Re: Is it Brownell's fault McDaniels left early..?
Mar 2, 2015, 8:24 AM
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NBA is not basketball. Let's be clear here. Geez...
You can make excuses all you want for our lack of success in BBall, but the fact remains, we are not going to the dance again!
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Is it Brownell's fault McDaniels left early..?
Mar 2, 2015, 8:27 AM
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Another quality retort....
You take Curry off of Davidson a few years back then. Take Jimmer Fredette from BYU. Take the one kid from Butler. Take all those away a year early and what happens.
Sorry you do not understand sports. Maybe you should stick with checkers and stop embarrassing Clemson Alumni.
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110%er [5010]
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I am still perplexed why we keep sports we won't invest in..
Mar 1, 2015, 6:34 PM
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Forget Basketball, Swimming, Crewing, et al... Cancel that nonsense.
I am even starting to question Baseball.
Keep Golf, Tennis, and Soccer (maybe). Let the other stuff go....
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110%er [5249]
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Aren't our divers consistently winning at a high level?***
Mar 1, 2015, 6:43 PM
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110%er [5010]
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I didn't say diving...***
Mar 1, 2015, 6:58 PM
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Starter [372]
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Legend [19352]
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110%er [7390]
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Wow; what an original post. Never read anything like it.
Mar 1, 2015, 6:43 PM
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We all know Clemson'll have to hire a Spurrier-esque coach to even get close to winning the ACC in men's varsity basketball.
It's starting to seem as if that would have to happen for Clemson to even actually make it to the big dance & not get snubbed.
I'm not a Brownwell dumper per se, but I certainly don't believe he deserves that big of a salary & with Clemson not making the big dance year in & year out I see no reason to keep him around & not experiment with another coaching hire.
Some of you that support him so faithfully may want to consider re-evaluating your choice of sexual orientation.
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Trainer [25]
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Re: One riddle Brownell dumpers can't figure out...
Mar 1, 2015, 7:18 PM
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It's interesting that of all the replies to your post, not one answered your question. Brownell's a #×+$ of a coach.
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Hall of Famer [24509]
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THANK YOU!!!!
Mar 1, 2015, 7:40 PM
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WELL SAID.....
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: One riddle Brownell dumpers can't figure out...
Mar 1, 2015, 7:52 PM
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How does a great X and O coach lose every year to a mid major? It isn't a talent issue with that level. It is either unable to motivate players or poor coaching.
Brownell has lost 11 games to mid major programs in his 5 seasons here. For comparison, Purnell lost 3 in his 7 seasons.
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Trainer [25]
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Re: One riddle Brownell dumpers can't figure out...
Mar 1, 2015, 8:26 PM
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Still no one has answered your question so I will. We at Indiana trade Crean for BB. And if we need to throw in some cash to make the deal happen, we will. When BB has more to sell to recruits TNetters would figure out- too late- how good he is.
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CU Guru [1134]
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Based on "personnel" we are consistently over acheiving,
Mar 1, 2015, 8:29 PM
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per the preseason "experts". Last couple of years we have or will finish 3 to 5 slots higher than predicted? Now one can argue that he should make sure we have more talent, but that takes time. Has he had enough time, hard to say. Losing KJ hurt this year. I guess the best gauge is are we upgrading each year - bringing in more talent than we are losing. I would yes, but maybe not by a large margin. OP was a better recruiter, BB a better coach. I don't think we as fans have much choice but to be ALL IN at least for the next two years, and then we will see.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: One riddle Brownell dumpers can't figure out...
Mar 1, 2015, 9:21 PM
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The OP has no freakin' clue if he thinks BB can flat out coach, so it's really hard to even make a suggestion to such an outrageous claim about BB's coaching ability.
Having said that - and this will do absolutely no freaking good, but Greg Marshall and Mark Few are a couple of names I'd go after. I wanted Rick Pitino years ago, but CLEMSON refuses to go after quality coaches that can actually win games. They prefer to use the shotgun approach and shoot into the dark and hope they hit something. CLEMSON Admins basically suck at their job, and it won't change due to how they run their business. The OP does not understand this either, so he's basically asking a rhetorical question.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: One riddle Brownell dumpers can't figure out...
Mar 1, 2015, 9:50 PM
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What measure do you use to determine "...sure can coach"?
Since 2010 we're 40-44 in the ACC, that's a .463 winning percentage.
He's a nice man, but he just hasn't figured out how to win in this conference.
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All-In [43996]
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Brownell has the best ACC winning percentage in Clemson basketball history.
Mar 1, 2015, 11:58 PM
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Hilarious that you criticize him for not figuring out how to win in the ACC! If you feel that way about him, what did you think about every other Clemson basketball coach since they didn't do this well?
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Asst Coach [702]
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winthrop didn't need him
Mar 1, 2015, 9:57 PM
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Hmmmmm
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CU Guru [1893]
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Tommy Amaker - Harvard
Mar 2, 2015, 8:27 AM
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I hate to sound racist, but I believe Clemson needs an African-American basketball coach to be able to recruit. Also, Amaker has proven that he can coach while at Harvard.
I like Brownell. But I am afraid he has his limits, both coaching and certainly recruiting. How can you allow 5 points underneath the basket simply because your players cannot inbound the ball? I give BB two more years to make the Big Dance.
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CU Guru [1146]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 858
Joined: 10/7/09
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Thank you! An ACTUAL coach suggestion.
Mar 2, 2015, 8:59 AM
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And not that terrible of a suggestion.
He has succeeded quite well at Harvard but once again, it would be a "gamble" because although Brownell was only at Wright State and UNC-W, I'd say it's more competitive than the Ivy League.
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CU Guru [1146]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 858
Joined: 10/7/09
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What team was picked to finish second to last in the ACC
Mar 2, 2015, 9:00 AM
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last year and blew those pre-season expectations out of the water?
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Replies: 69
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