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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Trump - Fascist?
Jun 23, 2020, 9:50 AM
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I keep hearing in the media/leftist psycho's on twitter/posters on the ole tigernet calling Trump a fascist.
Can you please explain to me what Trump has done since he has been in office that would make him a fascist?
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Uh oh...here we go...
Jun 23, 2020, 9:56 AM
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13 points of racism coming soon
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All-In [38096]
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No, you misunderstood. I called him a "Fahggott"
Jun 23, 2020, 9:58 AM
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thanks.
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All-In [42000]
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Oh, I'm always happy to oblige
Jun 23, 2020, 10:18 AM
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And yep, franc, I'm gonna whip out the 14 Points of Fascism. If you disagree with any of them, I'll go more in depth.
In short, Trump embraces nationalistic, big government (which one of the key reasons why he and his supporters are NOT conservatives), ultra right-wing authoritarian control. I argue he is an accidental fascist; he doesn't know really that he embraces this ideology and it's not intentional. But he's one nonetheless.
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Disagree? Moving on.
2. Disdain for Recognition of Human Rights
His treatment of immigrants, particularly with the family separation policy (yes, I understand this started under Clinton but Trump is the first to weaponize it and use it as a punitive tactic), his ordering of the attack on protesters, and his affinity for brutal dictators are just some of the examples.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
Immigrants. Media. Antifa. China. Democrats.
4. Supremacy of the Military
Need I explain?
5. Rampant Sexism
We already know Trump embraced rampant sexism before taking office. He's continued it with comments since. Again, not sure I need to elaborate.
6. Controlled Mass Media
This is one Trump hasn't really accomplished because of our laws (not counting Fox and OAN), but he has attempted early stages of it with attacks on the free press, restrictions on journalists and press conferences, and most recently, talking of executing journalists. For a fascist government to be successful, the previous press must be eliminated and a new government-controlled one created. Trump would do this if he could.
7. Obsession with National Security
Again, don't think I have to elaborate.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
Trump's odd service to evangelism highlights this, especially since Trump isn't even a Christian. This is one where Trump might actually know what he's doing along the lines of fascism. He knows Christianity is the most dominant force in America, thus he intertwines it to solidify control.
9. Corporate Power is Protected
Hasn't he taken massive steps to boost corporate power and control since taking office?
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
I don't know Trump has actually done this, but I welcome any evidence from other posters.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Trump has pushed a strong anti-intellectual movement as have his supporters, and attacking intellectuals, highly-educated people, and embracing the idea that somehow those with less education possess more of a grasp on reality and common sense has been a staple of his rise to power. That's exactly who he targeted in the primary and the general election, and Hillary stupidly fell into it by flexing her elitism.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Again, doesn't need explanation.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Of course, this is the one where Trumpies will stick their fingers in their ears and refuse to hear, or scream "But Obamas!" all day long. Aside from the rampant nepotism and putting his family members in places of power where they don't belong, the amount of corruption, politicizing of specific offices/departments and attempts in the military, the amount of wasted taxpayer money on golf for him and trips for his kids, the pardons of despicable people, the money his family has made off the office, etc. The list goes on and on. He will go down as one of the most--if not the most--corrupt president in history.
14. Fraudulent Elections
TBD...
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All-In [38096]
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Re: Oh, I'm always happy to oblige
Jun 23, 2020, 10:24 AM
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Oh, I'm always happy to oblige
Jun 23, 2020, 11:10 AM
[ in reply to Oh, I'm always happy to oblige ] |
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1. America First. I agree with this. We need to take care of our own before we start becoming charities to other countries. We have enough of our own problems that need to be addressed. Anyone with half a brain can see this.
2. LOL. He enforced the law that was put in place long before he was president. I guess this makes Obama part fascist as well. And ordering the attack on protesters? Please show me the national guard attacking peaceful protesters. He did call the national guard to stop the riots. I agree with this as well.
3. Uhhh what? So him pointing out that China is killing us on trade deals? Him pointing out that Coronavirus came from China? Him building a wall to deter ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION? Him Calling MS-13 members animals? Him attacking democrats that tried to frame and put his entire family in jail? and are you serious with Antifa? They are domestic terrorists. That doesn't make one a fascist
4. Supremacy of Military? I guess every president except for Obama are part fascist. We have had the greatest military in the world for a long time.
5. Sexism. I mean he has made some nasty comments no doubt. But he has also put women in very powerful positions. I asked since he has been in office. And I don't see rampant sexism since he has been president.
6. Controlled Mass Media: He has not done this at all. The last figure that I saw was 96% of the media is negative about Trump. Are you saying him bashing the mainstream media is trying to control it? Pointing out "he could do it if he could" is just dumb.
7. Obsession with national security: I mean, if you don't have security of your nation, then you have no nation. Think this is also a very dumb point.
8. Religion and Govt. are intertwined: I just don't see this but could be wrong. Are you talking about the "photo op"?
9. Corporate Power is protected: Every other president is part fascist then. He has not given any more power to corporations that I'm aware of. I do know that wage growth for middle class has grown more than the rich.
10. Labor Power Suppressed: NO
11. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts: No disdain for the arts. He talks crap to people. That's what he does. This doesn't make him a fascist.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment: I have to agree with him there. People that commit crimes should be punished. LOL. He's also done prison reform, police reform, etc.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Now this is just funny. There is absolutely nothing wrong or fascist about giving his family positions of power. But it's funny that you have adamantly defended Hunter Biden. Par for the course though. Wasted taxpayer money on things he likes to do? Every president does this. Also, his net worth has significantly decreased since he has been president.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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We are all fascist.
Jun 23, 2020, 11:23 AM
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Cat and his two cohorts here have the magic which allow them to shove a square peg into a round hole. It come from playing with Legos.
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All-In [42000]
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You've been a staunch supporter of such fascist ideology.***
Jun 23, 2020, 11:33 AM
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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What's your point, Cat?
Jun 24, 2020, 10:05 AM
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You don't believe I support fascist behavior and we are the exact two here who know that.
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All-In [42000]
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The more you give Trump a free pass on everything...
Jun 24, 2020, 11:36 AM
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The more you try to defend and justify all he says and does, the more you endorse it.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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So without lifting more than a finger I'v become a fascist?
Jun 24, 2020, 1:01 PM
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Do you even think about what you post here?
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All-In [42000]
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Do you blindly support Trump and his actions?
Jun 24, 2020, 4:51 PM
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You've said in the past you would. And while that doesn't make you a fascist, it makes you someone who is blindly excusing the behavior.
No grown man should blindly support any politician. Ever.
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All-In [42000]
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Herein lies the problem...
Jun 23, 2020, 11:36 AM
[ in reply to Re: Oh, I'm always happy to oblige ] |
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As Hemingway said in For Whom the Bell Tolls about Americans and fascism, "There are many who do not know they are fascists but will find it out when the time comes."
You excuse, defend, and justify the behavior. No American will ever come out and say, "Man, I love fascism! Let's do that!" You'll just be fed the ideology and embrace it because you are part of that mob it appeals to.
So not only is Trump one, but it appears you may be as well.
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110%er [5476]
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Re: Herein lies the problem...
Jun 23, 2020, 9:46 PM
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Allow me, to make a few observations about you and your fellow comrades. Your bible is the Communist Manifesto and your religion is Marxism.
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All-In [42000]
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Re: Herein lies the problem...
Jun 24, 2020, 12:20 AM
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Ah, the old either/or fallacy.
Sorry, bruh. I don't have a Bible. Except maybe the Constitution. Which, I know, Trump and his folks don't really like.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Oh, I'm always happy to oblige
Jun 23, 2020, 1:27 PM
[ in reply to Oh, I'm always happy to oblige ] |
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My point here is that it's easy to throw around the word "fascist" to pretty much anybody. Obama held fascist beliefs. You hold fascist fascist beliefs.
I could show you examples with every single president for every single one of these bullet points below....
Is the Black Lives Matter movement fascist?
The movement certainly has a disdain for recognition of human rights. BLM beat up counter protesters, forcefully remove statues, shut down businesses, and try to cancel anybody that doesn't believe exactly like as the movement believes.
The Movement identifies enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. You know making cops and white people villains.
Obsession w/ national security. Since Chaz was an autonomous zone, I recognize them as Chaz. The first thing they did was build barriers and regulate entry. Chaz is definitely fascist. They had armed guards.
I could go on and on.
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All-In [42000]
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Re: Oh, I'm always happy to oblige
Jun 23, 2020, 2:55 PM
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Meh, Obama? Like what? He's a poor example here, and a poor "But Obama" attempt. We can call him a lot of things, including a bad president, but he didn't embrace fascist ideology.
I gladly welcome you to point out the fascist beliefs I embrace.
Is BLM fascist? No. They aren't embracing a governmental system. They're just a cause. And you can point to any destruction caused by their organization, but that doesn't fit the definition either. Beating up people makes you a violent idiot, not necessarily a fascist. Removing a statue isn't violating a human right. Fascism isn't a form of government that calls for any of that stuff anyway.
You have a poor understanding of the ideology as you're just cherry-picking any little thing you don't like and calling it fascist. None of those things represent a governing, socio-economic ideology that embraces the tenets of fascism.
Trump has echoed and acted upon a playbook similar to past fascist leaders in history. He has thankfully been unsuccessful in creating this in America, but he's pushed it.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Oh, I'm always happy to oblige
Jun 23, 2020, 3:31 PM
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Not quite. I used your own definitions or examples to show you that you can spin movements and all groups of people into fascist ideologies.
You know this....
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110%er [5641]
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what a joke - your head is up someone's
Jun 23, 2020, 1:42 PM
[ in reply to Oh, I'm always happy to oblige ] |
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rear if that is an objective assessment.
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Libs are anti-American, so if being pro-American makes Trump a Nationalist, then I concede this one.
2. Disdain for Recognition of Human Rights
Immigrants? Really? The libs regard keeping LAW AND ORDER as being anti-human rights. Libs regard not giving people free iPhone 12s and free college as anit-human rights. Give me a break. If you/libs really gave a rats a$$ about human rights, you'd be driving to Chicago right now to save a dozen blacks from being murdered again this weekend.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
Who is killing people? Not conservatives, democrats are. Six cops killed since G Floyd thanks to calls from BLM. Who is chanting "kill cops" - the libs are. Who killed the CHAZ/CHOP dude - libs did. Who is destroying private property - libs are. Who is not enforcing laws and protecting private citizens - democratic leaders of all the miserable big cities.
Trump is being attacked. You are mistaking protecting yourself for something it isn't.
Listing China here shows significant ignorance. Militarily and economically China is the No 1 international threat. They have been illegally stealing our IP for decades and openly practicing unfair trade. They are highly advanced in some military tech areas. Sheesh.
4. Supremacy of the Military
Really, Trump is leading supremacy of the military say, like Hitler did, creating his own military branch to conduct genocide? I mean, I should not even be responding to stupid claims like this. All Trump has done is put DoD funding where it has been traditionally. That's it. And, removed troops from overseas.
Even though he should have done so, he hasn't been "taking over" any cities with the national guard or military. He hasn't changed the fundamental structure of gov't and placed military people in civilian positions, for example.
5. Rampant Sexism
Fake news. You own Harvey Weinstein and Matt Lauer and the other hollywood elites who are "friends" with A-listers and get a pass. Libs are the ones redefining words every day to ensure the maximum number of people can claim themselves a victim of something.
6. Controlled Mass Media
This response is pathetic and lame. Please admit it, the MSM is in the tank for libs and has been for decades. You say "Trump would do it if he could," but the democrats HAVE ALREADY DONE IT!!!
YOU ARE ADMITTING THE POINT AGAINST YOURSELF when you say "For a fascist government to be successful, the previous press must be eliminated and a new government-controlled one created."
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED by the Democrats. The media is not controlled by gov't per se, but controlled by the left.
7. Obsession with National Security
Pulling troops back from overseas, out of Germany, etc. Trump thought about a military parade, but didn't do it.
Maybe I would concede if he had pushed for, say, a doubling of the DoD budget. But, he has not done that.
No obsession here.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
How is Trump solidifying control? That is silly. We have libs running around in every city doing what they want - law and order is gone but yet Trump is solidifying control???
9. Corporate Power is Protected
Trump has not taken massive steps to boost corporate power and control. But this is a problem with any Administration and in general with the federal gov't.
This is one reason gov't needs to be smaller...because it is inherently corruptable no matter who is in control.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
Trump has expressed desire for union members to have the freedom to choose NOT to be in a union. That could be used against him here, but it seems like a fair position.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
There are more fake PhDs out there than ever before, getting degrees in fake, made up fields. These are "internet intellectuals" and need to be called out as such. These people do not know how to think critically.
Intellectuals are by definition largely academia - who is academia - the left. How can you not see that? It's the left that owns the media - and the media will not cover disdain for itself.
Also, libs are the ones tearing down and ruining national art assets!
Of course Trump has disdain for the media because it is uniformly (well 95%) aligned against him. If you cannot admit that, you are not objective.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Again, following established law is being obsessed with crime and punishment? Clinton and Obama put more blacks behind bars than anyone in history, yet Trump is obsessed with crime and punishment?
Just because liberals pick and choose the laws to follow, does not mean those that follow all laws are "obsessed" with crime and punishment. Also, protecting the rights of peaceful citizens not to be attacked cannot be seen as being obsessed with crime and punishment.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Biden's son flies on Air Force 2 to Uraine and China. Is a drug addict loser, yet somehow becomes a millionaire due to his Ukrainian and Chinese "jobs." Really? Peter Strzok texting his mistress on a gov't phone about hating Trump when he is in charge of one of the FBI's investigations? And you claim Trump is the problem? Generating the entire Russian collusion hoax based on a fake Steele dossier that anyone who has a brain can read and know it is 100% fake from the outset. It is self-evident when you read the stupid thing. You probably are not aware Pelosi's son also has/had a Ukranian job. You can't make this crop up. AG Loretta Lynch meets with Bill Clinton privately on tarmac of an airport in an airplane - if that's not corruption in plain sight, then you have seriously clouded judgment. These are real corruption examples.
Obama's annual hip hop parties in Hawaii were ok, though.
14. Fraudulent Elections
How can elections be made more secure? How about voter ID? Case closed - you lose again.
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Legend [15730]
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Your obsession over this list is odd.
Jun 23, 2020, 2:26 PM
[ in reply to Oh, I'm always happy to oblige ] |
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Fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
Fascism: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fascism Definition of fascism | Dictionary.com Fascism definition, a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism. See more.
Aside from exalting nation, I would argue that Trump's opposition fits this definition more than he does.
Exalting race above the individual
Centralized Autocratic government [headed by a dictatorial leader] - I don't think either side calls for the second part.
Severe economic regimentation
Severe social regimentation
forcible suppression of opposition*
* Here, I feel confident that someone is going to point out Trump's call to quell riots and looters with his "opposition", and if you feel that urge, save it. Trump did not call for a forceful suppression of the protests, just the people damaging the cities and stealing property.
So, this list you consider your "Am I a fascist?" Bible is interesting, but ultimately useless. It's like saying my neighbor is a serial killer because they're uncomfortable socializing and quick to anger...when the real definition is "they killed a bunch of people."
By the way, I am enjoying the twist where you are now accusing people on the board of being fascists. That's stepping it up a notch.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Your obsession over this list is odd.
Jun 23, 2020, 2:30 PM
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And who is this cult-of-personality authoritarian leader the Dems are rallying under?
I'm not entirely certain Biden isn't that dead guy from Weekend At Bernie's the Dems are propping up.
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Legend [15730]
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I don't think there is one.
Jun 23, 2020, 2:39 PM
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Nor did I say there was, but I suspect you knew that.
What I said was that Trump's opposition ticks more of those boxes than he does. But again, I suspect you knew that.
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All-In [42000]
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Re: Your obsession over this list is odd.
Jun 23, 2020, 2:47 PM
[ in reply to Your obsession over this list is odd. ] |
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And what does posting the definitions do? I didn't argue Trump had been successful in implementing a fascist regime; I'm saying he fits the ideology. The "obsession" over the list is a mere litmus test of historical studies that find common threads between past fascist regimes, and a warning for leaders who embrace the same ideology.
Is this the first time I've accused some board members of that? I hardly think not. It highlights my point: no one is going to run around joyfully screaming they're a fascist. But when presented with the ideology and with it made clear their status will benefit them in this set up, many people will gladly embrace it. People like Mountaineers, 88, T3, etc.
They'll go to the grave claiming they oppose fascism while loving every ounce of its tenets.
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110%er [8885]
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All-In [42000]
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Let me also ask you this...
Jun 23, 2020, 2:56 PM
[ in reply to Your obsession over this list is odd. ] |
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What ideology of government would you argue Trump embraces? And you can't say conservative Republican since it's clearly not that.
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Legend [15730]
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Good question...pragmatic populist nationalist? I dunno...
Jun 23, 2020, 3:48 PM
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...I'm not a political scientist and not good at that sort of categorization. Not trying to blow off the question...just have to give it some thought. Perhaps some more savvy than I could weigh in.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Trump - Fascist?
Jun 23, 2020, 11:14 AM
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Since Trump is so fascist, which famous fascist in history does he most compare to?
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Hitler.
Jun 23, 2020, 11:19 AM
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Come on man, everyone knows Trump is just one tiny moustache short of being a NAZI.
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All-In [42000]
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Please. Trump is far closer to Mussolini.***
Jun 23, 2020, 11:36 AM
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Hitler.
Jun 23, 2020, 11:57 AM
[ in reply to Hitler. ] |
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He is not a Nazi. Nazis were a particularly insidious - and thankfully thus-far unique - political mutation. They called themselves "National Socialists" and had some socialistic riffs like social credit programs and give-aways but those programs were Orwellian "1984"-type populistic riffs, designed to appeal to and manipulate the masses into doing what the overlords wanted. In some ways it was a direct response to Communism, which idealized the community over the individual...whereas the Nazis were all about individual will.
The Nazis - at least the Nazi leadership - were Nietzscheans, adherents of the philosophy of Frederick Neitzsche. Put in a nutshell, Nietzcheans believe that the human race subdivides itself naturally into masters and slaves, that the cream always rises to the top, and that masters - who were always Aryan - were inherently predatory by nature and thus beyond judgment of the "rabble" and that what we commonly regard as morality was in fact a set of false beliefs held by the underclasses to protect themselves against those with true power.
Stalin found out the difference the hard way. Stalin - a Communist - thought there could be peace between the USSR and Nazi Germany because the USSR was a Communist state, and the Nazi regime - publicly - was a "Socialist" state, just one step removed from Communism. What he didn't understand was that to Nietzscheans, "Socialism" was a farce, a placebo for the masses...and the Nazis' actual goal was to obtain living space for the Master Race...and the USSR had the territory they ultimately wanted. To obtain that the Nazis intended to "liquidate" the Slavs, who they considered subhuman.
Obviously, most of that doesn't apply to Trump. He isn't a Nazi.
He's a Fascist.
The difference really seems to be the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath. Trump isn't a psychopath - he's actually a coward, whereas a psychopath is fearless - but he is assuredly a sociopath, and has seemingly no morals or scruples whatsoever.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Hitler.
Jun 23, 2020, 3:15 PM
[ in reply to Hitler. ] |
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Wait! You lose. Whoever brings up the Nazi's online losses. Now you have to go to a corner for 15 minutes.
The internet has rules buddy!!
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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CU Guru [1314]
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Re: Trump - Fascist?
Jun 23, 2020, 1:34 PM
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They call him a fascist because he defeated HeLLIARy Clinton and exposed Obama's corruption and destroyed his 'legacy'. You just don't do that in a democracy, according to Demoncrats!! After all, it was her turn and Obama, in spite of giving rise to Trump, wanted to be sainted!!
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Legend [16213]
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I consider Trump more of a fascist wannabe than an
Jun 23, 2020, 2:43 PM
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actual fascist. He's too incompetent, and mentally deficient, to bridge the distance. Our institutions, though in jeopardy, are still too strongly rooted for someone of his meager exploits to topple. He talks a good fascist game, but thankfully cannot walk the fascist walk.
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All-In [42000]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: I consider Trump more of a fascist wannabe than an
Jun 23, 2020, 2:49 PM
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That's why I call him an accidental fascist. He doesn't really get what he is nor is he actively trying to implement the system. He just happens harbor the ideology without knowing what it is.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Joined: 8/12/14
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Re: I consider Trump more of a fascist wannabe than an
Jun 23, 2020, 3:29 PM
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That's why I call him an accidental fascist. He doesn't really get what he is nor is he actively trying to implement the system. He just happens harbor the ideology without knowing what it is.
Man, you seem to know Trump more than he knows himself!
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Trump - Fascist?
Jun 23, 2020, 3:13 PM
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You have to remember my friend, those people who throw around words like that, usually don't understand them. No evidence that Trump is a fascist.
Most likely that was from some professor somewhere who never got over being a hippie.
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All-In [42000]
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Yeah... no, Felix.
Jun 24, 2020, 10:01 AM
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You're not usually completely off base, but you are here. There is plenty of evidence. Let me know if you would like articles instead of my own explanations.
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All-TigerNet [10149]
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Re: Trump - Fascist?
Jun 24, 2020, 5:20 PM
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He isn't a fascist. That narrative is the lefts defense for being communist. Pure and simple.
Their hope is that if anti-trumpers make up crap and say it often enough common folks will believe it.
Hitler was a socialist fascist.
Big ### difference.
The democrats today are closer to what Hitler was than Trump ever will be.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Trump - Fascist?
Jun 24, 2020, 5:49 PM
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Sorry, but you're using your definitions wrong. A "socialist" is a left-winger. A "fascist" is a right-wing authoritarian.
I wrote this above, but this revisionism drives me crazy. Hitler was far-right wing, far beyond simple Fascism, and one of the furthest and most dangerous leaders who has existed in recent times. It's gotten trendy among the modern Alt-Right to see that word "National Socialist" in the Nazi Party's description and proclaim, hey, that means the Nazis were left-wingers...no. Sorry. As I described above, the "Socialism" part was for the masses, a deliberate populist sales job by a guy who regarded himself as a puppetmaster of the rabble. I actually wrote a post above about how the Nazis were actually Nietzscheans, which is a particularly vicious philosophy written by a bored trust-fund baby (who thankfully died young) called Frederick Nietzsche who basically said it was the right of the strong to seize the earth and do whatever they wanted to whoever they wanted along the way, and that the rest of us were all just weak "rabble" - Nietzsche coined that word - who existed to be ruled by the predatory strong. Great philosophy.
That's the complete polar opposite of Communism. Communism is all about the good of the many over the needs of the individual. (That doesn't make Communism great, mind...Stalin actually killed more people than Hitler did, and Pol Pot and the Khymr Rouge in Cambodia killed two million themselves, so history's gold and bronze-medal genocides were both Communists.)
But Hitler was assuredly no Communist. Hitler did some time in the pokey after trying (and failing) to seize power in 1923 during his failed "Beer Hall Putsch"...during which time he wrote Mein Kempf and figured out how to better market what he was selling - hence the "Socialism" part of his party's name; he was actually utterly contemptuous of socialism.
Hitler also wasn't a "Fascist", either, any more than a goldfish is a barracuda. The Nazis were far worse.
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