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All-In [47795]
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CU Medallion [60023]
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Re: United_Methodist_Net
Apr 2, 2019, 3:34 PM
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And I will leave mine and go to the more Conservative one in the next town over
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All-In [47795]
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why?***
Apr 2, 2019, 3:35 PM
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CU Medallion [60023]
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Re: why?***
Apr 2, 2019, 3:53 PM
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I do not want to be a part of a church that will ordain gay ministers.
I don’t care who comes to the Church and wants to help serve. But ordaining LGBTwhatever people shouldn’t be allowed.
That’s all I got to say on that one.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: why?***
Apr 2, 2019, 3:59 PM
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Your current minister is free of sin?
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Oculus Spirit [81884]
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That doesn't surprise me in the slightest.***
Apr 2, 2019, 4:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: why?*** ] |
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CU Guru [1878]
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Bigots gonna bigot***
Apr 3, 2019, 11:14 AM
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All-TigerNet [12098]
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There’s a name for Methodists like you
Apr 2, 2019, 3:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: United_Methodist_Net ] |
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They’re called Baptists.
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CU Medallion [60023]
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Re: There’s a name for Methodists like you
Apr 2, 2019, 3:51 PM
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Furthest thing from that my man. That’s laughable.
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All-In [28802]
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Seems like you've got it backwards
Apr 2, 2019, 5:18 PM
[ in reply to There’s a name for Methodists like you ] |
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He's the real Methodist. The word for Methodists like you is "Unitarian" or "Episcopalian."
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All-In [47795]
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you're smarter than that cam.***
Apr 2, 2019, 5:25 PM
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All-In [47795]
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Wesley followed a time-tested approach:
Apr 2, 2019, 3:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: United_Methodist_Net ] |
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"In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; and in all things, charity."
are you suggesting that a relegation of gays to second class status in the church is one of the essentials? to me, the One Church plan was quintessential methodist, something Wesley would have recognized and endorsed.
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All-In [31887]
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I don't think not allowing to be ordained if living...
Apr 2, 2019, 4:09 PM
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homosexual lifestyle equates to 2nd class status.
As has been discussed ad nauseum, it simply comes down to if one believes homosexual activity is a sin or not. I wish the discussion within the UMC would stay focused on that, as I think it would have been more fruitful and productive. Everything else is just noise.
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Legend [15215]
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Obviously homosexual activity is a sin, but so is pride
Apr 2, 2019, 4:12 PM
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and assortment of daily struggles.
That being said, I think clergy should be held to higher standards. One of those would be fighting against sin instead of actively living in sin.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Obviously homosexual activity is a sin, but so is pride
Apr 2, 2019, 4:16 PM
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Everyone actively lives in sin
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Legend [15215]
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Agree. But I think there's a difference
Apr 2, 2019, 4:21 PM
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in the guy who says screw it, I'm just gonna be prideful or an adulterer or whatever instead of saying... God help me with my desire to cheat on my wife.
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All-In [47795]
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Heisman Winner [137849]
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I didn't know that.
Apr 2, 2019, 4:27 PM
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Is that really true?
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Legend [15215]
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All-In [47795]
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75% of American UMC delegates to the General Conference
Apr 2, 2019, 4:31 PM
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voted for the One Church Plan which would have allowed the ordination of Gay Clergy. However, the UMC is a worldwide denomination and vote from Africa and Asia counterbalanced the American and European votes. The vote was nearly 50-50 but the "traditional" plan one out.
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All-In [47795]
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won out***
Apr 2, 2019, 4:32 PM
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Legend [15215]
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All-In [31887]
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I think it's a misinterpretation to say that those...
Apr 3, 2019, 8:04 AM
[ in reply to 75% of American UMC delegates to the General Conference ] |
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supporting the One Church Plan by default did not believe homosexual activity is a sin.
The One Church Plan essentially left the issue of actively gay ministers up to the individual conferences and same-sex marriages up to individual churches and ministers.
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Oculus Spirit [97697]
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Heisman Winner [137849]
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"Living in sin". The implication is that homosexuality is
Apr 2, 2019, 4:26 PM
[ in reply to Obviously homosexual activity is a sin, but so is pride ] |
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100% a choice, and it's an actionable sin. So, say you think about gay sex all day, but you never S a D. Verdict? NOT GAY. You S that D one time though...no clergy/ordainment for you.
Such a strange way to dissect a naturally (generally speaking) occurring phenomenon. You're not gay until you do something gay.
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Legend [15215]
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Re: "Living in sin". The implication is that homosexuality is
Apr 2, 2019, 4:31 PM
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Everything in life is a choice. If I'm a pastor, I'm prob not supposed to commit adultery even though i may really really want to.
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Heisman Winner [137849]
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Did you choose to be heterosexual?***
Apr 2, 2019, 4:32 PM
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Legend [15215]
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I chose to marry a woman
Apr 2, 2019, 4:40 PM
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Everyone is born into sin, right? We just have different struggles.
I guess it boils down to what was said earlier. If homosexuality isn't a sin, then a gay pastor is ok.
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Oculus Spirit [81884]
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The question is, did you choose to be sexually attracted to
Apr 2, 2019, 4:46 PM
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women vs. men?
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Legend [15215]
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Re: The question is, did you choose to be sexually attracted to
Apr 2, 2019, 4:48 PM
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No, but why is that relevant?
I think people are absolutely born gay
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Heisman Winner [137849]
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Then how could it possibly be a sin?
Apr 2, 2019, 4:56 PM
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Isn't that kinda what we're driving at here?
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Legend [15215]
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Re: Then how could it possibly be a sin?
Apr 2, 2019, 5:10 PM
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I think we are born into sin. I think some people are always gonna struggle with certain sins.
I think it's in timothy and Corinthians maybe.
Whatever. Who knows. In reality, who cares. I would just go to another church because I'd want my pastor to be married so that he could relate more to my issues.
But if someone wants to go to a church led by a gay man or woman than whatever I guess. Different strokes.
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Oculus Spirit [81884]
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Do you think a same-sex marriage doesn't have the same
Apr 3, 2019, 11:23 AM
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relatable marriage issues as you?
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All-In [47746]
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Oculus Spirit [81884]
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All-In [47795]
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but that's not what the so-called "traditional" plan
Apr 2, 2019, 4:19 PM
[ in reply to I don't think not allowing to be ordained if living... ] |
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contemplates. Under that plan, most of the clergy in the UMC today would not be ordained. You don't have to take my word for it. Listen to Rev. Adam Hamilton - a name I'm sure you'll recognize. He's a centrist, not a lefty and these are his exact words. Adam Hamilton, the pastor of the largest UMC congregation in the US would not be ordained today under the "traditional" plan.
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All-In [31887]
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come on....
Apr 3, 2019, 8:42 AM
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"Under that plan, most of the clergy in the UMC today would not be ordained."
How so?
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Oculus Spirit [83066]
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All-In [49026]
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All-In [47795]
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Lot o points [155775]
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Leave us Presbyterians out of it.
Apr 2, 2019, 9:46 PM
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We aren’t taking marching orders from Laos and Botswana.
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Oculus Spirit [83066]
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I grew up a Calvinist as well.***
Apr 3, 2019, 8:11 AM
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Legend [15215]
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A gay pastor? I guess if it was the
Apr 2, 2019, 4:09 PM
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male in the relationship, then potentially. If it was the receiver of the relationship, that sounds like a bad idea.
But seriously, I don't know, I guess we all live in sin. Is sexual sin worse than pride, gossip, etc? I don't know. I think a murderer can become a pastor, but maybe after repentance. But then a lot pastors struggle with pride, so I guess you could struggle with being gay.
Then I guess the question becomes, is struggling with being gay different than living a lifestyle of being gay in the eyes of God? I think probably so. Confusing stuff.
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Oculus Spirit [81024]
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so much baggage to carry around***
Apr 2, 2019, 4:28 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93647]
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I don't believe that...
Apr 2, 2019, 5:17 PM
[ in reply to A gay pastor? I guess if it was the ] |
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God thinks any less of a gay lifestyle than he does a man who is married to his second wife. I'm not stabbing at those who are on #2, #3 or any other number. I was married to my second wife 3 months short of 30 years so I am not guiltless.
Anyone who believes God 'looks down,' on gays might want to remove the mote from their eye so they can see to start removing the mote from some who is gay. Now, Christ had some strong discouragements for the Pharisees. All of it was about their self righteousness.
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All-In [28802]
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Centrist= Liberal, by the way
Apr 2, 2019, 5:16 PM
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The "centrist" position isn't to support heresy
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All-In [47795]
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that's simply not true in Methodism
Apr 2, 2019, 5:24 PM
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"In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; and in all things, charity."
For most Methodists - especially the centrist - the issue is "non-essential" and hence unity with the left and the right is the preferred approach.
As for heresy, what percentage of professing Southern Baptists have been divorced? Jesus had quite a bit to say about divorce as I'm sure you're aware. And, I'm sure you're equally aware he had absolutely nothing to say about homosexuality.
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All-TigerNet [11173]
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Very much not the case in the UMC. Our conservatives
Apr 2, 2019, 5:55 PM
[ in reply to Centrist= Liberal, by the way ] |
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are considered to be just that; conservative. They seem to be more influenced by politics and culture than Wesleyan doctrine.
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Oculus Spirit [93647]
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Not my church, not my concern.
Apr 2, 2019, 5:38 PM
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God is the only one I agree with.
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Lot o points [155775]
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I only went to a Methodist church once. It was lame.
Apr 2, 2019, 9:44 PM
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Of course that was 4th grade, and I went with a friend, and the Lutheran church another friend went to would let you wear shorts so it seemed a lot cooler.
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110%er [5622]
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Re: United_Methodist_Net
Apr 3, 2019, 2:56 PM
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I would say that the Southern Methodist Church will be growing rapidly in the very near future.
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CU Guru [1669]
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Re: United_Methodist_Net
Apr 3, 2019, 4:42 PM
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Enough on this topic. I have been a Methodist over 65 years. but it is time to move on and let your light shine.
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