|
Replies: 70
| visibility 1
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
OK CDef, let's end the Welfare state
May 5, 2015, 3:27 PM
|
|
You're elected president and you decide to end the "welfare state". Luckily, you have a super majority in the congress and a conservative supreme court, so you are good to implement your plan without any obstruction.
Now, I'm not sure what all you put in the "welfare state" category, but let's start with the basics.
Welfare
Subsidized Housing
Subsidized Food
You decide to get rid of these 3 things (you have some sort of scaling back plan I'm sure, I don't think you want to just cut these things off, but maybe you do, I don't know).
How are you going to handle the fallout?
|
|
|
|
 |
CU Medallion [73569]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 78044
Joined: 11/30/98
|
how bout first make them work if they get money
May 5, 2015, 3:29 PM
|
|
that'd be called racist I'm sure.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
No, no problem with that, but where are the jobs coming from
May 5, 2015, 3:31 PM
|
|
You're going to have an influx of unskilled workers, generally in highly concentrated locations. It's nice to say "make them work" but you're going to have to find some jobs for them. Also, white people have "ghettos" as well, they're called trailer parks, it's not like black people are the only ones involved in the welfare state.
Message was edited by: drewtigeralum03®
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [79429]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63272
Joined: 10/30/05
|
Maybe they could come from the millions of people here
May 5, 2015, 3:51 PM
|
|
illegally who would be forced out after the border was secured and immigration laws enforced?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18021]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
|
the ones that businesses illegally pay off the books?
May 5, 2015, 3:53 PM
|
|
and have the same businesses be made to pay at least minimum wage too? I think you'd have some push back.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [79429]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63272
Joined: 10/30/05
|
Well, since we're making hard choices here
May 5, 2015, 3:57 PM
|
|
Yes, those. Make it too risky to hire, impose crippling fines and maybe even criminal charges (yeah, I said it) for those who knowingly hire illegals. Couple that with actually enforcing immigration law like every other country in the world, and they'd leave. There would be push back at first from both sides of the isle, I'm sure, but we'd all be better off in the end.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
Ok, say you do that
May 5, 2015, 3:59 PM
|
|
Most of the jobs you created are in agriculture and possibly construction. How are you going to get the people to the jobs?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [79429]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63272
Joined: 10/30/05
|
I dunno, how are they going to get themselves there?
May 5, 2015, 4:08 PM
|
|
I think the point is to make people less dependent. Heaven forbid they not be able to stay within the 3 block radius they are accustomed to, may actually have to move to an area with a lower cost of living, too. I know a guy who just bought a pickup for $300. Someone may have to give up their iphone for a car, but so sorry.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
Ok they moved to a more rural location
May 5, 2015, 4:22 PM
|
|
They came up with first and last months rent, a moving van, a $300 dollar pick up, and secured a job picking apples, because that's the job we freed up when we kicked out the immigrants. What happens when it's not apple season?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [79429]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63272
Joined: 10/30/05
|
Don't try to pretend getting rid of the how ever many
May 5, 2015, 4:28 PM
|
|
millions of people here illegally wouldn't make a huge difference in job availability for actual citizens, I know that's what your hinting at. I'm not going to pretend I've got a ####### road map planned out for every individual, but the reality is the status quo isn't sustainable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
Undocumented immigrants generally take undocumented jobs
May 5, 2015, 4:31 PM
|
|
You find undocumented workers in the Home Depot parking lot, not working in Home Depot. We're talking unskilled manual labor. I'll expand to restaurant work as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [79429]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63272
Joined: 10/30/05
|
Undocumented doesn't mean they don't exist or aren't
May 5, 2015, 4:34 PM
|
|
necessary. I'm not quite sure what this reply is even supposed to mean. Are you insinuating the demand for these jobs will disappear if we make them 'documented'? Aren't we always talking about how the poor lack job skills, etc.? Seems to me a large vacancy in the unskilled manual labor market might be a good thing for poor Americans. Or would that be asking too much of them?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
No I totally agree
May 5, 2015, 4:36 PM
|
|
I just think you're overestimating these jobs. We're generally talking seasonal jobs that generally pay under minimum wage. Also, yes, some of these jobs will disappear when the employers are forced to do things like pay minimum wage and provide, at a minimum, workers comp coverage for their workers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [79429]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63272
Joined: 10/30/05
|
Well, we've got millions of people risking a lot to come
May 5, 2015, 4:50 PM
|
|
here illegally and do those jobs, perhaps you are underestimating them? Like it or not, you're not going to be able to do much of anything for the poor here until you tackle the illegal immigration problem. Until that happens, things will only get worse for the U.S. citizen as our focus on them gets diluted by the never ending influx of illegals.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1599]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3020
Joined: 1/30/05
|
"Undocumented Immigrants" is a misnomer
May 6, 2015, 8:16 AM
[ in reply to Undocumented doesn't mean they don't exist or aren't ] |
|
Plenty of these immigrants have documentation. It may be counterfeit or someone else's identity, but plenty have documentation. These poor souls have to live in the shadows until we give them a SS# and a voter registration card. Then, they can work for wages that are below the subsidy line thus being a burden on the tax payer and the healthcare system. See, democrats have the solution...just make them citizens.
But seriously, can someone explain what that scheme is all about? It's just to get voters, isn't it.
Message was edited by: hleapha®
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
You can't vote if you're not a citizen
May 6, 2015, 10:25 AM
|
|
HTH
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1599]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3020
Joined: 1/30/05
|
That was part of my round-about question
May 6, 2015, 1:42 PM
|
|
Is Obama's proposal to give the illegal and/or undocumented immigrants full citizenship?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
Dreamers or whatever
May 6, 2015, 1:58 PM
|
|
Get to stay and get a path to citizenship. They get a SS card, but not citizenship.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [73569]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 78044
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
Hold up now
May 5, 2015, 3:57 PM
|
|
You're talking about federal jobs? Increasing the federal government is probably not going to fly with your conservative colleagues. Also, keep in mind that most of these people don't have easy access to transportation, and when you cut off their welfare checks, most of the close businesses shut down because they were the recipients of the welfare checks. Also, you've cut subsidized housing, so you're going to have to pay these people enough to afford rent, so they probably can't stay in the city.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [79429]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63272
Joined: 10/30/05
|
Devils advocate here
May 5, 2015, 4:01 PM
|
|
Maybe cutting the subsidized housing would incentivize couples, particularly those having babies, to stay together. Going to be hard raising those 4 chitlins own your own when you gotta pay rent too...Might think twice about having another one, too.
Of course, I have witnessed two Clemson educated individuals get a $600 puppy when neither of them had housing and one of them was unemployed, so who knows w tf people will do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
Maybe that works for some
May 5, 2015, 4:06 PM
|
|
What are you going to do with the people that can't stay together, or maybe, you know, the other parent is in jail, which isn't that uncommon. What are you going to do with woman raising 2 kids because the father is locked up or just gone? Again, this is more of a poor problem across the board, and not just a black problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [79429]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63272
Joined: 10/30/05
|
Thank you for reiterating that this is not just a black
May 5, 2015, 4:12 PM
|
|
problem, I'm not sure where I referenced anyones race.
You know, you can't make the world perfect for everyone. Ending the drug war would help tremendously with many those problems, but so would incentivizing some sense of family and community.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
I agree, you can't make the world perfect for everyone
May 5, 2015, 4:14 PM
|
|
The question becomes, in a civilized society, what level of poverty are you comfortable with?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [79429]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63272
Joined: 10/30/05
|
Certainly not Africa style poverty
May 5, 2015, 4:21 PM
|
|
But I'm not too worried about the people with smart phones and premium T.V.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12897
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: Hold up now
May 5, 2015, 4:04 PM
[ in reply to Hold up now ] |
|
Is it really increasing the federal government to pay someone to work instead of paying them to sit at home?
There is always ditches that need digging, trash pick up, etc..something in return for the paycheck a person is already getting
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [56067]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 31637
Joined: 8/27/02
|
What about all the people on disability?
May 5, 2015, 4:06 PM
|
|
The federal government spends more money each year on cash payments for disabled former workers than it spends on food stamps and welfare combined.
http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [79429]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63272
Joined: 10/30/05
|
No doubt people mooch off of disability like crazy***
May 5, 2015, 4:13 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
You'e going to have to pay them a good bit to dig
May 5, 2015, 4:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Hold up now ] |
|
I mean, they're going to have to cover rent, food, transportation to and from the ditch digging site, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18021]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
|
Not if they're in jail already...
May 5, 2015, 4:09 PM
|
|
which, some think, is why prisons populations have continued to rise. Cheap labor.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18021]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
|
Doesn't TANF already require work?***
May 5, 2015, 4:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: Hold up now ] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42151]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38236
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Ninety-one percent of people on welfare
May 5, 2015, 4:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: Hold up now ] |
|
Are either employed, elderly, or disabled.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
Sorry, those guys are going to have to figure it out
May 5, 2015, 4:13 PM
|
|
We're going with the notion that the "welfare state" is the reason for poverty, so we can't really start making exceptions for people, because in a sense, that would be causing them to remain poor.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42151]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38236
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Here's your scary stat for the day
May 5, 2015, 4:22 PM
|
|
As more Baby Boomers hit retirement, this will get worse. One economic expert has predicted that salaries need to increase by 35 percent or welfare programs need to decline by 23 percent, or we could be heading towards some real economic hurt.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
Baby Boomers should have saved more money
May 5, 2015, 4:25 PM
|
|
Instead of having nice shoes and premium T.V. They're just going to have to figure it out, or they're going to be in the street.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12897
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: Ninety-one percent of people on welfare
May 5, 2015, 4:25 PM
[ in reply to Ninety-one percent of people on welfare ] |
|
How much of the 91% that includes retirees referring to Medicaid or social security? Any?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42151]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38236
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Looks like
May 5, 2015, 4:31 PM
|
|
About 33 percent for SS and 12 percent to Medicaid.
More than half of all these benefits got to seniors. Most of the rest go to working households.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
Isn't medicaid part of the "welfare state"?
May 5, 2015, 4:33 PM
|
|
That probably needs to be eliminated as well. You can get all the money out of social security that you put in, and when that is gone, so is Social Security. We're not running a charity anymore.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42151]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38236
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Also appears federally that only
May 5, 2015, 4:35 PM
[ in reply to Looks like ] |
|
0.3 percent of it all goes to TANF. And about 7 percent to unemployment.
Again, just yanking those numbers straight from the budget.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [73569]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 78044
Joined: 11/30/98
|
you're already paying them to do nothing. Its not increasing
May 6, 2015, 9:34 AM
[ in reply to Hold up now ] |
|
anything
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [56067]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 31637
Joined: 8/27/02
|
How's this for an idea.
May 5, 2015, 3:59 PM
[ in reply to road crews, janitors, who knows ] |
|
Do away with most federal social programs for the poor and use the money to pay residents in impoverished communities to renovate, maintain, and police their own neighborhoods. They'll need a certain degree of mentoring and oversight, but it could work.
Of course that would mean government is the solution.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42151]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38236
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Not only are they not the only ones
May 5, 2015, 4:07 PM
[ in reply to No, no problem with that, but where are the jobs coming from ] |
|
But the percentage of white vs. black on welfare is about the same. It also depends on the state to see how much someone gets per hour. Like Hawaii, which pays a nice $17.50 an hour for welfare (source: U.S. Dept. of Commerce).
The Bureau of Labor Statistics also shows that welfare recipients use 77 percent of that money for the necessities of life, much higher than those who don't receive assistance.
Oh, another crazy statistic? Those on welfare to describe themselves as conservative are the same percentage as those who claim to be liberal (source: Pew).
But here's the stat that the anti-welfare people hate: 91 percent of people on welfare are either elderly, disabled, or employed (Census)
Of course there are people who leach the system. But not as many as folks think.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12269]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14009
Joined: 2/19/99
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [97711]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64855
Joined: 7/13/02
|
Thanks for asking. No one ever suggests anything
May 5, 2015, 4:54 PM
|
|
Here's what I would do as President...
Scale back environmental regulations that prevent the building of infrastructure improvements. Make it easier to build nuclear power plants. Make it once again feasible to have coal power, although the clean coal of the past 15 years. Increase the capital gains tax to equal your income tax bracket, even for long-term. Severely cut back corn and wheat subsidies. Keep crop insurance intact, but end the other $7 billion for corn, and $2 billion for wheat. HFCS will necessarily become as expensive as sugar, less will be used, and we save money treating obesity and diabetes in medicare and obesity will no longer be a disease of the poor. Ease water restrictions so dams can once again be built and California can store water. Secure the southern and northern borders, THEN I will deal with who is here already. I would change the retirement age to 69 for social security. I would audit disability cases in mass. I would end Obamacare altogether. Shorten the exclusivity period for prescription drug sales. Streamline FDA approval of new drugs. Enact tort reforms for medmal cases. Drug test food stamp and housing recipients. Require an ID to vote, nationwide. Pitch term limits to the people, support a flat tax rate for everyone which tapers as you near the poverty level to nil.
I can keep going...but I think this is a pretty ambitious start.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12897
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: Thanks for asking. No one ever suggests anything
May 5, 2015, 5:14 PM
|
|
This ^^^
I have no doubts that many companies have left the US because of regulations/taxes, etc. Bring many of those companies back by scaling back some regulations. (Manufacturing for example) I know a man personally that helped run a textile company here in the US, they're now in Mexico. (And it isn't just about wages...)
I know many on the far far left want to blame company owners for greed and place absolutely no blame whatsoever on a government that is making it harder to compete with competition etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
Honest Question
May 5, 2015, 5:25 PM
|
|
Are you for scaling back environmental regulations to the point where they are competitive with Mexico and 3rd world countries?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3717]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6086
Joined: 10/20/00
|
look, the quicker we destroy the environment
May 5, 2015, 5:28 PM
|
|
The quicker man will
A) Come up with a scientific solution to restore the environment
b) Come up with a way through science to get us off this rock and populate some other one
It's also why we need more climate change
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12897
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: Honest Question
May 5, 2015, 5:40 PM
[ in reply to Honest Question ] |
|
No.
But honest question...are you in favor of even more regulations/taxes/costs that make US companies less competitive?
I'm ok with regulations but not to the extent that it hurts US companies(that in turn gives Mexican, Chinese etc companies an advantage) there has to be some common sense involved.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18021]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
|
What regulations do we have that Chinese/Mexico don't?
May 5, 2015, 5:56 PM
|
|
and to what extent do we, the consumer, want those regulations in place? Too often the term "regulations" is a catchall for "bad" like "common sense" is a catchall for "whatever I think makes sense."
I'm not saying we don't probably have too many regulations, but I, on a basic level (this could be wrong) have assumed that our standards of quality and regulations are higher than China/Mexico. And that this has been demanded by the consumer (market force) through government action.
I've always understood that companies move mainly for financial reasons--namely wages and taxes. Regulations plays a role too, but to what degree I don't know.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12897
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: What regulations do we have that Chinese/Mexico don't?
May 5, 2015, 6:05 PM
|
|
Of course financials play a role but it isn't always because they don't want to pay $15 an hour in the US.
IF a direct competitor is producing the same product for half the price, selling it for half the price...does that not affect the US company? Sure does.
As far as regulations, the Federal Register has 80,000 pages. Take your pick. 
Someone asked above If I'm in favor of cutting regulations to that of Mexico and third world countries. The answer is no but I'm also not in favor of so many regulations/taxes that causes our economy to be no better than that of a third world country.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18021]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
|
So it's the number of regulations not the specific regs?
May 5, 2015, 7:15 PM
|
|
what if (statistically improbable as it seems) all 80k regulations make sense and are quality regulations, would that affect companies leaving? I'd probably say no, but does that mean the regulations aren't worth having?
What balance do we want in terms of economic liberalness for companies to produce their product versus the conservative safety and preservation we seek to protect individuals and the environment?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12897
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: So it's the number of regulations not the specific regs?
May 5, 2015, 7:30 PM
|
|
yeah its the number imho.
I'm not arguing that regulations are all bad. I'm arguing that they put US companies at a disadvantage versus a company operating in a nation with fewer regulations.
For instance, regulations that cause electric prices to go up in the US. I'm just giving an example here but let's say a company in the US spends $1,000,000 per year for electricity but the same company can pay $800,000 per year for the same amount of electricity in a foreign country. Does that not affect the company? (I'm not saying those numbers are correct, just giving a hypothetical)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18021]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
|
but if at that added cost to business there is an added
May 5, 2015, 10:44 PM
|
|
benefit to customers or citizens where do you draw that line? That balance is important and just blaming the number of regulations seems too black/white for a complex issue like the Economy which is already more art than science.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12897
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: but if at that added cost to business there is an added
May 6, 2015, 9:15 AM
|
|
Again, I don't think most regulations are "bad." Many benefit us (example cleaner air) and many benefit employees(example OSHA)
Again, my argument is that if it costs a company more here in the states versus a direct competitor in a foreign country, the US company is at a financial disadvantage.
Rather it's taxes, wages, regulations that add costs, it all affects the company.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
Lets take air quality/water quality for example
May 5, 2015, 6:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Honest Question ] |
|
Would you be OK with the US reducing the air quality/water quality regulations for factories in order to better compete with Mexico/China/3rd world? I work in environment/occupational safety and those to particular regs (in terms of environmental) separate us from other countries, but we also have significantly better air and water quality than those countries.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12897
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: Lets take air quality/water quality for example
May 5, 2015, 6:17 PM
|
|
I've said above that I'm not in favor of cutting environmental regulations. That would include air quality imho.
But as I also said, I'm not IN favor of so many regulations that in turn causes our economy to become no better than the economy of a third world country. (I don't have all the answers but I don't think anyone really does) but I think it's clear that regulations put US companies at a disadvantage.
Doesn't mean I disagree with a particular regulation just stating a FACT that it does put US companies at a disadvantage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12897
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: Lets take air quality/water quality for example
May 5, 2015, 6:19 PM
|
|
And I mean to point out regulations/taxes/costs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12897
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: Honest Question
May 5, 2015, 5:42 PM
[ in reply to Honest Question ] |
|
And to point out, ANYONE can see that our government is helping to create the environment that causes companies to go over seas or to Mexico. (It isn't all greed from company owners like some say)
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12897
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: Honest Question
May 5, 2015, 5:48 PM
|
|
And to also point out, environmental regulations aren't the only regulations.
The federal register that lists regulations is over 80,000 pages long. I'm sure anyone can read about Many regulations that could either be scaled back or cut altogether.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
Those 80,000 cover any number of industries though
May 5, 2015, 6:10 PM
|
|
Many are redundant from one industry to the next. Yes, there are a bunch of regulations, but they don't apply to every industry. Each industry has their own set of regs, therefore you should expect a bunch of regs, because there a bunch of different industries.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [97711]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64855
Joined: 7/13/02
|
We could scale back 80% of them, back to the 70's....
May 5, 2015, 9:01 PM
[ in reply to Honest Question ] |
|
and still be more environmentally friendly than Mexico.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
If that's the case
May 5, 2015, 10:10 PM
|
|
Wouldn't Mexico still have an advantage then?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [97711]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64855
Joined: 7/13/02
|
I have met with the owner of a sportswear company based in
May 5, 2015, 9:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: Thanks for asking. No one ever suggests anything ] |
|
SC once, working on a worker's comp claim. As i drove up to the company's offices in SC, I noticed they were in a nondescript building that was very small. Next door was a shuttered textile plant, but at first I didn't make the connection. Anyway, one of their employees, in California or somewhere, had an injury. Go in the office and there's a desk, receptionist area, and a hall with perhaps 3-4 offices, and a meeting room. I am told to wait in the meeting room. Guy comes in. He is the owner of the company. I think there were two or maybe three other "employees" in the building I was in. They leased half of it I think.
Anyway, guy comes in and I start the statement. This guy started this sportswear company decades ago. It was originally based in SC, at the shuttered plant next door. This was a rather large plant, and once housed 100 employees or more I'm sure. Owner tells me he now has 11 employees. I asked him what he does. His company makes t-shirts and shorts, and sweatshirts, kind of like Russell in Alabama, etc. They make the raw shirts and they are sent to customers who print things on the shirts, etc. They have customers in nearly all 50 states. I asked him how he manages to do this with 11 employees, one of whom was injured. He told me he only has 11 employees in the United States. He has several THOUSAND in Guatemala and Mexico, where he now has two plants and other facilities. His 11 employees are simply warehouse workers who load trucks for shipment. The shipping is done by a vendor. So the company's only domestic overhead are two warehouses, one in California and one on the east coast. Those two warehouse employ 11 workers who mainly drive forklifts and load semi-trucks with garments for shipping to customers.
I asked him why he closed the Greenwood plant and he was truly sad. He said he could not afford to make the shirts in the US anymore and his option, a decade ago, was to go out of business, or move manufacturing out of the US. He did the latter. He can make t-shirts $0.20 on the dollar in Guatemala and Mexico versus making them in Greenwood. He could not make the shirts in the US if he wanted to.
The guy injured was a forklift operator and it was a worker's comp claim. He explained to me that there is no worker's comp in Mexico or Guatemala. No OSHA, no regulations, no safety laws, and wages are far less. With what this guy will be paid by worker's comp alone, he could hire perhaps 20 employees in Guatemala.
When your employee options are someone who has food stamps, subsidized housing, medicaid, etc. in the US, or someone who will starve to death in Guatemala, he said we can't compete with that. ANd we can't. And we don't.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12897
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: I have met with the owner of a sportswear company based in
May 5, 2015, 9:52 PM
|
|
That's just plain greed. He should have continued paying his 100 employees 40 hours every week to sit around a warehouse 
I agree. As I said above, I know a man personally that helps run a textile mill. The mill is located somewhere in Mexico now. At one time his factory worked 7 days a week all year round to try and keep up with demand. I remember him telling me that at one time they had 700+ employees. Demand went down, they could no longer stay open in the US at US wages, paying US type electricity bills, etc and make any kind of profit. (Of course most mills were already operating on a pretty slim profit margin anyway) But we constantly hear it's about greed. there is simply no way that many companies aren't able to compete in the US.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12897
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: I have met with the owner of a sportswear company based in
May 5, 2015, 9:54 PM
|
|
Oh. And the answer to that..hey let's pile on even more regulations, force business to have even more costs, let's raise taxes..
And on and on it goes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31890]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37177
Joined: 11/22/03
|
Some good points and some federal over-reach....
May 5, 2015, 5:40 PM
[ in reply to Thanks for asking. No one ever suggests anything ] |
|
I like the relaxing of certain environmental regs, especially in regards to electricity generation.
I like the ending of subsidies. I would look at cutting back on most any ag subsidy. Start with everything back to 0 and then have to make a strong case to increase anything from there.
I do not agree with increase long-term cap gains rates. Why do you propose increasing it?
Retirement age increase...ok, but phased in so people about to retire aren't screwed.
Not sure about shortening exclusivity for new drugs. Would have to balance pricing impact versus reducing financial incentives for research for new drugs.
Don't agree with a federal voter ID requirement. In fact, I'm not sure that would be constitutional. Up to the states to control how people are registered to vote.
Ok with flat-tax...prefer "fair-tax"/federal sales tax.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [97711]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64855
Joined: 7/13/02
|
Actually, if I could seal the borders, I would not need
May 6, 2015, 7:59 AM
|
|
voter ID. But as the situation is now, it's more than necessary.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31890]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37177
Joined: 11/22/03
|
Just unconstitutional :) But you could push for all of....
May 6, 2015, 8:11 AM
|
|
states to do it and explain why the idea that it suppresses minority voting is absurd.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [97711]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64855
Joined: 7/13/02
|
You have to have ID to get a job, buy cigarettes, buy beer
May 6, 2015, 10:53 AM
|
|
receive insurance benefits, drive, go to college, get insurance, get OBAMACARE, get Medicaid, get a passport to travel, GET MARRIED, join the military, etc.
Why again is it unconstitutional to require it for voting?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31890]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37177
Joined: 11/22/03
|
It's not...it's just not a federal issue...it's a state...
May 6, 2015, 11:06 AM
|
|
issue.
The constitution gives the power to the state to determine who can vote in federal elections outside of abiding by the various amendments (3 I think) concerning race, sex, poll tax, etc...
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31890]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37177
Joined: 11/22/03
|
Let's define "welfare state" first...
May 5, 2015, 5:48 PM
|
|
when I hear that term used in political rhetoric, I don't hear "ending welfare of any kind", but rather reforming welfare so that it isn't a "state of being", but a temporary/transient situation to the greatest extent possible.
It's complicated as ####, as you need a reform of traditional welfare, improvement in the educational system, a change in culture, and economic reform to fuel the move of more people to being able to fully support themselves.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 70
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
