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Topic: Not going to lie, I really hate our offensive philosophy
Replies: 72   Last Post: Sep 11, 2018 12:37 PM by: CM Shack
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Replies: 72  

Not going to lie, I really hate our offensive philosophy

[26]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 11:38 AM
 

I don’t care for all the RPOs and I wish we could just run our 3-4 solid running backs down team’s throats. I also can’t stand how we never run the ball twice in a row. We could get 4-5 yards easy on first down, and then throw the next two plays. The coaches wanna talk about not being efficient? Well how about set up some 3rd and shorts with the running game. There is NO reason why Etienne shouldn’t get 15-20 carries a game and Choice/Feaster get 5-10 each. This is why elite RB’s like Zamir White and D’Andre Swift chose UGA over us. We simply haven’t utilized the RBs effectively over the last two years since Gallman has left. Maybe it’s because of the OL and Caldwell??? The coaches are just quick to get away from the running game and it’s annoying.

Don’t even get me started on all of the screens and sideline throws. We have no threat over the middle of the field, or at least we don’t even try to throw anything there. Everything is to the sidelines (which are harder throws) and it’s almost like they don’t trust KB and TLaw over the middle.

The overly cautious gameplan makes games closer than they should be and I really can’t pinpoint why the coaches just want to survive these games rather than attack. I also can’t figure out if it’s because the offense is overly complicated and the QBs aren’t executing or it’s because it’s overly simple and defenses are just beating us/it’s not effective.

All in all, we keep winning and we should all be happy with that—and I certainly am. But this style of offense won’t work against Bama or UGA. Heck, it barely worked against Auburn last year and now A&M. I too put blame on KB and the OL last year after the Sugar Bowl but now I’m really starting to think it’s the coaches holding these guys back, not the players themselves.

End of rant. I’m still proud to be a Clemson Tiger and love this team—wearing my orange today in the office. I just think the coaches need to take a look in the mirror and be held accountable, that’s all. KB and TLaw made some great throws Saturday night but the coaches still want to keep them on a leash.

2019 student level member

Agreed. It would be different if we were winning, but...

[19]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 11:40 AM
 

I don't understand why we are sticking with something that just doesn't seem to work.

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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


The offense works against teams we’re more talented than.

[5]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 11:46 AM
 

Teams that can narrow that gap like Auburn, A&M, Bama, etc. make it a lot tougher. My point is that the philosophy doesn’t seem to create mismatches and utilize our talent (Etienne, Higgins, Rodgers, Renfrow) in unique ways. It’s all kinda bland and whatever.

Not saying Elliott, Scott and Dabo should pull an 180 on the offense and re-do everything because you’re right, it does work. But schematically it’s going to be very very tough to be talented teams the way things are now.

2019 student level member

We beat every team on your list of teams it doesn’t work against.

[9]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 12:26 PM
 

Literally, Every. Single. Team.




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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: We beat every team on your list of teams it doesn’t work on.

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 12:30 PM
 

If not for the fumble at the 1 we would have scored 35 points against A&M. That isn't a working offense???


If not for a fumble, A&M scores 34, is that a working D?***

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 12:37 PM
 




The fumble our D forced?

[4]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 12:43 PM
 

Or our fumble that their D had absolutely nothing to do with?




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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


It was a controversial call, we got lucky on it***

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:03 PM
 




I'm not sure how we got lucky on it

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:37 PM
 

The ref had a great angle to see it and made the correct call. SEC officials reviewed it. Call stands.

Their receiver was stupid for trying to stretch the ball like he did.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: I'm not sure how we got lucky on it

[3]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:51 PM
 

It went directly over the pylon which means about half of it crossed the plane of the goal line before it went out of bounds.

Touchback...plain and simple.

Pylon cams don't lie.


Re: I'm not sure how we got lucky on it

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 4:25 PM
 

Angles can. I am glad we got the call. There was definitely not ondesputible evidence to overturn the call on the field.


If it had been ruled out at the 2, does it get overturned

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 3:03 PM
 

after a review?


Nope.***

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 3:10 PM
 



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my point exactly***

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 3:49 PM
 




Re: If not for a fumble, A&M scores 34, is that a working D?***

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:04 PM
 

Did I say the D played good???


The Offense went scorless the last quarter and you seem to

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:10 PM
 

think they played fine, I'm trying to get a baseline


Re: The Offense went scorless the last quarter and you seem to

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 3:47 PM
 

I didn't like the play calling in the 4th quarter but we were a yard away from 35 points. 35 points should beat anybody we play or it is on our D. Especially with no turnovers.


Re: If not for a fumble, A&M scores 34, is that a working D?***

[5]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:23 PM
 

Stay on topic ! We're ironing out the offense over here !
C'mon , CM Shack !

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DB23


I'm amphibious, I can iron in either direction***

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:32 PM
 




They make a pill for a non-working D***

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 4:11 PM
 



2019 orange level member

Re: We beat every team on your list of teams it doesn’t work on.

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 7:26 PM
 

No ,14 first downs is not good at all
Our D got wore out and hung out to dry


Re: We beat every team on your list of teams it doesn’t work against.

[3]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:23 PM
 


Literally, Every. Single. Team.





You're so ready to settle just for winning?

Clearly winning doesn't have enough 'tang' to it.

We need winning of a different, more better flavor to it.

This is why I don't tnet much any more....not enough tang to it.


You'd have a point if that's what was said***

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 8:15 PM
 




Re: Agreed. It would be different if we were winning, but...

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:20 PM
 

Hand-Off U , baby !
GT ain't gonna like this .

2019 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

DB23


We defeated the mighty powerhouse TAMU, how dare anyone

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 4:06 PM
 

complain about something that is so obvious?

2019 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Wow - STUNNER you are jumping in here. Haven't missed

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 6:37 PM
 

you one bit.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

where were you Friday night?

[3]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 11:42 AM
 

if there coaches read this Friday, clemson could have avoided the loss.

thanks alot.


Re: Not going to lie, I really hate our offensive philosophy

[3]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 11:42 AM
 

Valid points. We're winning, but you are always thinking about improvement. It's the competitive internal drive to get better. Anyone who has competed in their life for anything gets it!!


Re: Not going to lie, I really hate our offensive philosophy

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 11:47 AM
 

It blows my mind when all these people say, "yeah, but we're winning ", but when we can't beat Alabama or whoever, they're the first to say " we should do this or that ". Everyone knows it's early in the year , but this is when we set the tone and perfect the execution. This is when we must prepare for the coming storm. Not after the fact.


Only ten games left

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:16 PM
 

how can they do it in so short a time?


C'Mon Striper - 13 games left ! ! ! !***

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 6:38 PM
 



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You talkin' about Florence , or nah ??***

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:26 PM
 



2019 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

DB23


Re: Not going to lie, I really hate our offensive philosophy

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 11:45 AM
 

And I say, Amen, brother.


We dont have a RUN IT DOWN THE THROAT o-line.....***

[4]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 11:45 AM
 




possibly

[3]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 11:49 AM
 

That’s why I said I’m confused that if the cause of the issue is Caldwell, the OL itself, or the play-calling. Etienne getting only 8 carries in a big game when he’s averaging 5.5 a carry and Choice getting 3 carries when he averaged 9 yards a carry is abysmal. I think we can run the ball more.

2019 student level member

Re: We dont have a RUN IT DOWN THE THROAT o-line.....***

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 11:51 AM
 

ETN averaged 7.3 ypc and Feaster averaged 6.5 ypc last year. That works for me.

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I want to make opposing Defensive Lines gag***

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 12:36 PM
 



2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

You should never chalk up to conspiracy what you can reliably attribute to stupidity. Because stupidity is a much more powerful force in the course of human events.


Guess there is consensus that we're Cycling out!***

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 11:47 AM
 



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Re: Not going to lie, I really hate our offensive philosophy

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 11:59 AM
 

Can we just schedule small schools and not have to deal with all of those schools with decent players? For some reason, those schools seem to bring their "A" game to us, and it just ain't fair. And the refs should start calling penalties on our opponents, and stop calling penalties on our team. That would solve most of our problems.


Re: Not going to lie, I really hate our offensive philosophy

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 12:07 PM
 

And I'm thinking this is a backward looking thought.


So you're saying it worked against Auburn last year? The same Auburn who beat Georgia and Bama on back to back weekends last year?

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Here's how I look at it...

[3]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 12:21 PM
 

I love smashmouth. But elite college teams are basically semi-pro teams. That is, a lot of those players will BE pro in a year or less. Elite athletes maxed out for speed and size. The pros know what works at that level, with those types of athletes, so you need an offense like the pros run. You're just not going to push 300+ lb bodies up and down the field all game. We couldn't do it to TAMU and they couldn't do it to us. So we BOTH gave up on the run game. That leaves you with short and longer passes, which unfortunately are not KB's forte. But ultimately, you've got to have a pro style vertical pass game to beat elite teams. Dabo knows it. That's why he got TL. Saban knows it. That's why he got TUA. Smart knows it. That's why he got Fromm. Lesser teams can be manhandled, but when everyone is elite, it's all about match-ups and schemes, just like the pros. So, we run our scripted stuff to see what they've got, then we exploit them however we can. And at the higher levels, that's not smashmouth all game. As much as we might hate to admit it, OTHER teams have great athletes too.


The problem is we don't have an offensive philosophy, we

[4]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 12:35 PM
 

just run plays...We don't run tempo and force people to adjust to us, we don't target weakness, we just run plays...I'm not even sure we have a game plan going into it...That's why our QB has more rushing attempts than completions and our star RB can't get double digit rushing attempts...Watson hid a lot of coaching flaws, they aren't hidden anymore.


Co-coordinators, co-quarterbacks, no identity...

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 4:16 PM
 

not coincidence

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Re: Not going to lie, I really hate our offensive philosophy

[6]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 12:39 PM
 

AFAIC, this is the flow chart for offense at the beginning of the game -

1.Throw a WR screen.

2. Did you throw a screen last play? If so, run a zone read.

3. Did you run a zone read last play? If so, throw a WR screen.

4. Is it 3rd down and more than 5 yards? If so throw it down field. If not, run a zone read or throw a WR screen.

5. Repeat steps 1. through 4. until it looks like the game is in real jeopardy.

6. Are we in danger of losing the game? If yes, plays other than 1. and 2. are allowed.


Re: Not going to lie, I really hate our offensive philosophy

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 3:33 PM
 

You forgot the QB dive on 3rd and 2 or less

2019 purple level member

Lulz. HIRE PAUL JOHNSON.***

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:02 PM
 



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What offensive philosophy?!?

[8]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:08 PM
 

Honestly, we don't seem to have an offensive philosophy anymore. We run about four plays, and hope that our players can out-athlete the other team's players. When we do anything different, it's a boneheaded trick play like we ran with Hunter and Kelly against A&M.

I don't think our offense needs a dramatic overhaul, but we do need to mix things up a bit. There is no excuse for Etienne not to get more carries. There is also no excuse not to throw over the middle to WRs and TEs. We have WAY too many weapons not to utilize them.

Yes, we have won games with this offensive strategy, but I would argue that we have won very few of those games as a result of this offensive strategy. There is a huge difference. When counted on to make plays against good defenses, our offense typically falls short.

And yes, before anyone says anything, I am happy that we won and am able to appreciate the victory. But I also see the train wreck that's coming later in the year if we don't make some offensive changes now.

2019 white level member

Is does look like we run the Mack Brown philosophy...Try to

[3]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:12 PM
 

outrecruit poor coaching


Re: Not going to lie, I really hate our offensive philosophy

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:17 PM
 

Your plan is based on us having an O line that can run block. Honestly I don’t think that is the case. Over the last number of years we only consistently run the ball well when the QB is a big part of the run game


Then it's a recruiting issue or coaching issue.

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:19 PM
 

Neither one is acceptable at this point in our program's evolution.

2019 white level member

Re: Then it's a recruiting issue or coaching issue.

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 4:54 PM
 

With the wealth of talent we have our offense should be much better. I agree Watson covered up a ton of flaws .We have ZR1 talent and are driving it like a station wagon.I love Oklahoma's offense I would think that's how we should look.


A quarter of our offense should NOT be QB runs though***

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:21 PM
 




Dang man. I’m just gonna enjoy the season and appreciate the success.

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 1:27 PM
 

So glad I’ve been a Clemson fan since birth (the 70s) and have a lot more perspective than the bandwagoners.

2019 white level member

I was born into a Clemson family.

[3]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 3:06 PM
 

Only school I applied to as well. My blood runs orange deeper than anyone on this board and I’ll always call it as I see it with the team. Trust me, I’m thankful of all the success we’ve had recently and it certainly beats the Bowden years but you can only get away with so much running an inefficient offense. We should be fine the rest of the season but once we get to the postseason, I fear another bad outing like the one we saw against Bama.

Again, I love the team and coaches but once you get complacent with success, you get beat. I’d like to see a fresher approach to the play calling.

2019 student level member

People here can't take any criticism. So they'll try to

[3]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 4:09 PM
 

drown you out with mockery and personal attacks.

But stay strong, you're right. Our offensive strategy has been pretty bad for a long time now. The only difference from now and 10 years ago is that we have a great defense and a boatload of 4 and 5 star athletes that can make big plays and out-talent the other team.

The only difference between now and 2 years ago is that we don't have the best Quarterback ever in our history to bail us out and overcome the bad playcalling.

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Stay strong?

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 6:51 PM
 

??

2019 white level member

Fair enough.


Posted: Sep 10, 2018 6:50 PM
 

But I’ll choose to keep enjoying it.

2019 white level member

Re: I was born into a Clemson family.

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 9:02 PM
 

WOW. your blood runs deeper than anyone's on this board? that's a pretty strong statement. when rick barnes was hired here, he was asked if he could catch UNC and duke by 'out working" them. he said (and i paraphrase) 'its not fair for me to say i'll work harder than coach smith and coach K because i don't know how hard they work. but i will say, they won't work any harder than i will." to say your blood "runs deeper" is not fair to a lot of folks who dearly love Clemson and have supported it thru thick and thin. do you love Clemson as much? very possibly. but "more"? i doubt it.

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You're right, our problems on offense revolve around

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 3:37 PM
 

philosophy and playcalling

2019 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Etienne's rushes were

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 4:15 PM
 

1Q
3 yards on 2nd and 11
-3 yards on 1st and 10
2Q
5 yards on 1st and 10
28 yards on 2nd and 10
3Q
3 yards on 1st and 10
2 yards on 1st and Goal/8
1 yard on 1st and Goal/1 TD
4Q
3 yards on 1st and 10


So he was successful on 3 of 8 runs. I had no problem seeing what the others had.

There is no problem with our philosophy. Do you enjoy the unprecedented recruiting success we are having at WR and QB? That's a direct result of the philosophy you have a problem with.

Are there things that bother me? Yes! But, do I think we need to scrap the whole thing just because a downhill offense like UGAs is better early in the year or at closing at games? Heck no. With our offensive philosophy, we are never out of a game until the final whistle with how quick we can score.

2019 orange level member

LOL at your measure of "success" on runs***

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 4:17 PM
 



2019 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

I would imagine it's how our coaches do as well.


Posted: Sep 10, 2018 4:20 PM
 

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2011/3/15/2050106/the-toolbox-offensive-success-rates

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb

https://www.krossover.com/articles/football-success-percentage-impact-and-explanation/

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/1/30/16944396/college-football-advanced-stats-individual-players-efficiency-explosiveness


Let me know if I can teach you anything else.

2019 orange level member

I sure hope not, but that would explain the horrible

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 4:27 PM
 

playcalling and abandoning the run without ever letting it get started.

LOL, statistics. People who use stats to make sporting decisions are really not very bright.

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Well rub some dirt on it and get back out there!

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 4:38 PM
 

(I don't really know what else to say if statistics aren't your thing.)

2019 orange level member

yes we had a ton of success when

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 5:56 PM
 

Dw4 was in there changing plays at the line. The playcalling wasn't as important when we had an extra coach on the field to identify and check into plays
.
We have had a steady decline in efficiency since dw4 left. We also get way too conservative when we get a lead under KB.

If we want to continue to be successful in recruiting top qbs and wrs the offensive coaches have got to step it up or get KB better at calling check plays on the field.

When KB is able to play aggresive and put pressure on the defesne hes a totally different player. We have to enable him to opem up the offense

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Re: Not going to lie, I really hate our offensive philosophy

[2]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 4:23 PM
 

They get paid a lot more than me so their opinion is much more valuable than mine. I hold to the old philosophy of run it till they stop you, then exploit the coverage with the pass until the defense gets honest, then run it down their throat again. Power run game eats clock and eats the opposing defense players energy. Pass heavy does not rest our offense.


I just don't like the RPO offense, I think its very limiting

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 6:32 PM
 

People think I'm calling for the coaches' heads or something but I'm not. I don't think its unfair of me to voice my opinion on something I don't like. I'm with you, I like a good power run game with play action pass.

2019 student level member

Re: I just don't like the RPO offense, I think its very limiting

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 7:23 PM
 

The rpo can produce big plays but we don't execute it well at all.

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Re: Not going to lie, I really hate our offensive philosophy

[3]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 6:06 PM
 

the same philosophy that ran KB 3 times and give it back to them for their final score.

2019 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Re: Not going to lie, I really hate our offensive philosophy

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 8:47 PM
 

Mean while back at the ranch quality opponents now have two tapes to watch. Last year's Bummer game and this year's ta&m. Which both are a road map on how to play us. We were very fortunate to come away with a win Saturday night.

2019 purple level member


Teams are stacking the box. Until we can make the difficult

[1]
Posted: Sep 10, 2018 8:27 PM
 

throws to open it up, we are limited by QB and Oline ability. Trevor maybe able to hit the throws necessary, but he is a true freshman with very little game experience and we still have to block for him. I have no faith in our ability to line up and ram it down any big time opponents throat. I haven’t seen us do that since the 80’s and even then, in big games it didn’t always work

2019 white level member

Football 101.... being able to run opens up the passing

[1]
Posted: Sep 11, 2018 7:45 AM
 

Then WRU would really shine.

The jumbo package says a lot.... it's worked less than half the time. But if the runs already established Saturday night, then that was the A&M backbreaker. BUT IT WASNT.

So we had to keep guys in there , more wear and tear , possible injuries, less experience for younger guys, etc. The enforcement of dominance opens up all sorts of positives.

With Etienne and Dixon's speed....where is the speed sweep to the corner when we need 2-3 yards, with the possible long gain as icing ?? We ran it once Saturday night....FOR A TD ...lol.

We should have put them down for good in the early 3rd quarter and gotten the youngun's some good PT.


I never want to see the jumbo package again***

[1]
Posted: Sep 11, 2018 12:37 PM
 




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