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Hall of Famer [22387]
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New Littlejohn doesn't yield attendance POP all expected.
Mar 12, 2017, 1:11 PM
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The attendance at the newly remodeled facility dropped below 2015 level.
From the Sapakoff article: The Tigers with a 7,541 average were 11th in the ACC in home attendance (ahead of Virginia Tech, Miami, Georgia Tech and Boston College).
From the NCAA.Org website: Clemson per home game attendance for 2014-2015 was 7,635.
How much money would a full facility bring into the Clemson Athletic Department along with the increased money from the league if we were to make the NCAA Tournament and win a game or two?
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Legend [19687]
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Enough to cover 3.5 million for sure***
Mar 12, 2017, 1:15 PM
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Then why would DRad keep him? There is no good reason
Mar 12, 2017, 1:18 PM
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to do it. Regardless of whether or not DRad screwed the pooch on the buyout, wouldn't the President and the Board have some say so over the proper path forward? Surely, Drad can't make the decision in a selfish vacuum.
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All-In [48078]
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Maybe CBB has us on the rise. It seems like recruiting..
Mar 12, 2017, 1:20 PM
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is improving. It will be interesting to see what we do next year. If we go by the last 7 years than I agree there is no reason to keep him. They must believe we are on the verge of getting better. Maybe we are? I think it all comes down to the class following the one we will have coming in, which seems like it ma be solid.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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He's not a good enough coach to get the most out of whatever
Mar 12, 2017, 1:30 PM
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talent he recruits and he's not a good recruiter. Yes, relative to our previous classes, he has a theoretically better class, but, as we are seeing with Devoe, Hudson, Grantham and Legendin, there are no guarantees of improving performance. None of the returning players are good defensive players. Somebody(s) is going to transfer out. Hard to see how we get better next year unless the freshmen are dramatically better than any classes he's had before.
The last 7 years of futility are bad by even low Clemson standards suggesting that hopes of consistent success under this guy is a water tortured pipe dream.
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All-In [44045]
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Not good enough to get the most out of his talent?!?
Mar 12, 2017, 1:34 PM
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Do you really think his teams have had a lot of talent? The fact is that we have less talent than almost all of the teams in the conference. The fact that we are competitive with the rest of the ACC is a testament to the coaching job Brownell has done.
Recruiting has been a much bigger issue for him during his tenure than coaching or maximizing talent have. And because he seems to be upgrading the talent level, and now has facilities which give him a more level playing field when hosting recruits, the hope is that we can get over the hump. I do not think this is unreasonable.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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No, his team does not have "a lot of talent." Duh. That's
Mar 12, 2017, 1:39 PM
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a major part of his problem. He just doesn't have the coaching ability to get the most out of whatever talent he manages to recruit.
We were not competitive in the ACC. We were 6 and 12.
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Legend [16732]
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Re: He's not a good enough coach to get the most out of whatever
Mar 12, 2017, 2:22 PM
[ in reply to He's not a good enough coach to get the most out of whatever ] |
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I agree.
Not an X and O guy
Not a recruiter
We always seem top have players with hype transfer out
Brad is the hampster in the treadmill going nowhere
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All-In [44045]
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Maybe they are looking at all aspects of the program
Mar 12, 2017, 1:30 PM
[ in reply to Then why would DRad keep him? There is no good reason ] |
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Competitiveness: improved in 2016-2017 (we were competitive in 30 of 32 games, and had a chance to win 10 or 11 of those with under a minute left)
Graduation rate: the best it's been in recent memory
Team GPA: the best it's been in recent memory
Off-the-court issues: none
Cheating or accusations of cheating: none
Represents Clemson University well: yes
Regarding wins, I believe DRad and the administration feel that there are encouraging signs in terms of being extremely competitive despite being the less talented team most games. Despite the talent disadvantage, they see improved talent level through transfers and the incoming 2017 class. We can assume that the new facilities are already paying dividends, as are Brownell's steadily improving relationships with high school coaches.
I also believe that the administration feels that it would be a risk to bring in a new coach with a new system, and that those risks outweigh the risk of giving Brownell another year or two. They must think we are close to turning the corner; otherwise, I do not think they would keep him.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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All of those are Larry Shyatt-esque measurements of
Mar 12, 2017, 1:35 PM
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success. If that is all they can point to, then it just reinforces the argument that it's time to move on.
It feels like he is being evaluated as though this is his first year and not his seventh.
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All-In [44045]
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You can't even compare Larry Shyatt to Brad Brownell.
Mar 12, 2017, 1:50 PM
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We routinely finished in the bottom two of the ACC every year under Shyatt. The 8-9 play-in game was called the Larry Shyatt Invitational for a reason.
Brownell's average ACC finish during his 7 years is 8th out of 15 teams. That is a middle-of-the-pack team. Our performance under Brownell is night and day compared to Shyatt.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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ACC went to 15 teams for the 2014-2015 season.***
Mar 12, 2017, 2:00 PM
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CU Medallion [58411]
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All-In [44045]
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It's not about excuses.
Mar 12, 2017, 1:52 PM
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But it is about offering explanations as to why he hasn't gotten it done.
In years 1-6, with the disadvantages Brownell has had, he is showing up to a gun fight with a knife. It was not until year 7 that he has had anything close to a level playing field. I have no idea that the newfound administrative support and new facilities will result in his success, but in the same vain, you don't now that they won't.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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The argument for keeping him is an excuse based one.
Mar 12, 2017, 2:03 PM
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That is a simple fact.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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It's not about being fair to Brownell, either.
Mar 12, 2017, 3:14 PM
[ in reply to It's not about excuses. ] |
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It's about doing what is needed to have a better basketball program at Clemson. You're right, neither of us knows whether or not the new facilities will result in success for Brownell, but after 6 straight years of coming up short, there has got to be some reason, based on his recent record, to think that will change, and pinning it on an incoming freshman class that is not rated much higher than some he's had in the past is not it, nor are all of the close losses. In fact, it could very well be argued that those things are good cause to move in another direction right away.
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Trainer [31]
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Re: New Littlejohn doesn't yield attendance POP all expected.
Mar 12, 2017, 1:39 PM
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The revenue per seat is significantly higher than previous years because of premium seats. Therefore, total revenue was higher. Student attendance was also up over previous.
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All-TigerNet [14470]
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Re: New Littlejohn doesn't yield attendance POP all expected.
Mar 12, 2017, 1:40 PM
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there you go with facts again.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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How did you like my facts?
Mar 12, 2017, 1:42 PM
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There I go with facts again.
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All-TigerNet [14470]
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Re: How did you like my facts?
Mar 12, 2017, 1:46 PM
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we got it. you dont like coach. it is like groundhog day every day with you. same old same old. guess what he is coming back. why not try and get behind the program. you dont have to like the guy.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Why don't you try to get behind the program instead
Mar 12, 2017, 1:55 PM
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of the sycophantic relationship with a coach who is not getting the job done?
I am simply posting facts, now that our season is over, that have not been discussed on this board before. Like them or not, they are what they are.
Why would I not speak out if I think we have been making a huge mistake in keeping this guy around?
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All-In [44045]
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The administration has only been behind the program
Mar 12, 2017, 1:58 PM
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for the past year or two. Why is giving our coaching staff another year or two under this newfound support so unreasonable to you?
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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I've explained it. The rationale is far clearer for removal
Mar 12, 2017, 2:02 PM
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than retention. We can't continue to ignore the evidence that the last 7 years of futility has produced.
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All-TigerNet [14470]
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Re: I've explained it. The rationale is far clearer for removal
Mar 12, 2017, 2:03 PM
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groundhog day
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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That is an apt description of every one of our 15 losses
Mar 12, 2017, 2:06 PM
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this year.
We lost 15 games this year. Let that sink in. Best talent for a Brownell team since the players Oliver Purnell left him.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: How did you like my facts?
Mar 12, 2017, 1:53 PM
[ in reply to How did you like my facts? ] |
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We got another Leggett/Bowden situation. The only difference here is both those coaches had some athletic capital to save them for a while. Brownell has none. No titles! One NCAA bid! Poor recruiter! Drad kept Leggett and Bowden too long. He's doing the same with Brownell.
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All-In [44045]
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How can you say he is a poor recruiter
Mar 12, 2017, 1:57 PM
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when all he had to sell for the first six years was a crappy basketball history, inconsistent administrative support, and poor facilities?
He was able to sign his best recruiting class this year, and those guys only got to see the architectural drawings for most of their recruitment. It isn't unreasonable to expect recruiting to improve even more now that high school players can see the completed facilities.
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Legend [19687]
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: DRAd had nothing to do with keeping Bowden
Mar 12, 2017, 2:25 PM
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My bad!
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Legend [17287]
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So DRad must have been the shadow AD during Bowden's tenure
Mar 12, 2017, 1:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: How did you like my facts? ] |
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I suspect collusion with Ga Tech!
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Commissioner [919]
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Re: So DRad must have been the shadow AD during Bowden's tenure
Mar 12, 2017, 5:08 PM
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They might have sold 7,541 average tickets to games but some of those attendance numbers from game by game are no where close to reality.
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110%er [5009]
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Re: How did you like my facts?
Mar 12, 2017, 5:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: How did you like my facts? ] |
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DRad should have also fired Frank Howard during some of those .500 seasons. Did you say Leggett, DRad was around for what, 2 of Leggett's 20 seasons here. DRad fired a legend when most AD's would have shied away from it.
Your acting as a child, whining about a decision made that u don't agree with. There is no guarantee a coach better than Brownell is willing to come here, you have no idea what has went on behind the scenes that led DRad to this decision.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: How did you like my facts?
Mar 12, 2017, 5:20 PM
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Times are different. With the advent of ESPN and especially the money, more college sports are on tv . Would subpar seasons by coaches be okay today? Probably not! I would give Drad more credit if he had fired Leggett one year earlier. Imagine one more year under Lee right now. What I'm hearing on here is to give Brownell more time . How much more time?
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