Tiger Board Logo

Donor's Den General Leaderboards TNET coins™ POTD Hall of Fame Map FAQ
GIVE AN AWARD
Use your TNET coins™ to grant this post a special award!

W
50
Big Brain
90
Love it!
100
Cheers
100
Helpful
100
Made Me Smile
100
Great Idea!
150
Mind Blown
150
Caring
200
Flammable
200
Hear ye, hear ye
200
Bravo
250
Nom Nom Nom
250
Take My Coins
500
Ooo, Shiny!
700
Treasured Post!
1000

YOUR BALANCE
Mickey Plyler's Blog: Crossroads
storage This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic
Replies: 25
| visibility 1

Mickey Plyler's Blog: Crossroads


May 13, 2013, 11:35 AM

Crossroads

Crossroads
There has been a lot of change and turnover at Clemson in the last few months. The president and provost are moving on and we already have a new athletic director in place.

Change is hard for some but many welcome new ideas and new energy. I think Clemson is at a crossroads


Full Story »


flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Ask school guidance counselors if you want the truth


May 13, 2013, 11:58 AM

Your "insider" sounds like a Gamecock. I am friends with several HS guidance counselors and they tell me the opposite - at least as far as the really bright students are concerned. They have seen a growing trend of kids that might have gone out of state to UNC or elsewhere wanting to stay in SC and go to Clemson. This appears to be even more the case the better the HS.

My biggest concern is the President. Many on here have bashed Barker but the fact was he was a Clemson man. Those are hard to find at that level - most university presidents and looking for the next job.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Ask school guidance counselors if you want the truth


May 13, 2013, 3:16 PM

I've bashed Barker. The rigging the US News results reflects very badly on him. Very disappointing he would feel that is appropriate.

badge-donor-05yr.jpgringofhonor-74tiger.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Maybe Clemson should offer more scholorships...


May 14, 2013, 8:39 AM [ in reply to Ask school guidance counselors if you want the truth ]

...to in-state students and support the locals a little more. I hate to say it, but USuC tends to give more schollies than our own beloved CU.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Mickey Plyler's Blog: Crossroads


May 13, 2013, 12:37 PM

I think your guidance counselor argument is true but it actually supports what Mickey is saying. Clemson is getting the "elite" students but the "elite" are far less numerous in population. A lot of SC kids that could have gotten into Clemson in the past cannot now as the acadmemics have gotten stronger. This kind of elite status turns off a lot of the non-alumni potential fan base from what I have seen and heard.

Mickey is exactly right in the past Clemson was the school of the common man but now that has changed. Also Clemson controlled the rural areas of the State when agriculture was so important to the state's economy but now with the population growth the power is coming from the city areas.

Clemson better find that middle ground in its quest to be a top national university to one serving the needs of South Carolina or it will lose the common man. I deal with the Legislature all the time, and that is what they are hearing is that Clemson is too worried about its national ranking and not SC kids. That may not be true but that is the message they are getting. Better just be glad for now Harvey Peeler is there to hold the line; and Wilkins with his connections still in the House or esle we would be dealing with a big time chicken controlled Legislature.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Agree and disagree


May 13, 2013, 1:18 PM

On the one hand I have to agree that Clemson needs to be careful not to be seen as elitist. However, they also can and should differentiate from USuC and this is one way. That is why I really like the Bridge program.

I think they also need to work on relationships at the state house. I think USuC grads with law degrees are the ones howling about national rankings when in reality it just kills them because Clemson is better than their school.

The truth is that Clemson still is for "every man" if they really want it. Can you slack off in high school and get 800 on the SAT and get in? No but a lot of fairly average students through hard work do get in.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Agree and disagree


May 13, 2013, 4:45 PM

Some of us have diplomas from Clemson and USC law and we are not howling about rankings-My blood runs orange and I feel we are putting too much emphahsis on the grad schools and resaerch and not enough on the undergraduate education the students are receiving. Secondly, I do feel our university should place more emphasis on admitting and educating students who are from this state and will stay in SC after graduation to improve this state. Many times B students are being overlooked in an effort to reach top 25 status.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

It is true that I am one of the elite. I am a Clemson grad.


May 13, 2013, 1:34 PM

Remember the line about standing tall and saying , "I went to Clemson". We don't need to be sorry for being great. If a high school student considers going to the state school in Columbia, I don't want that student at Clemson........it has to be in your blood!

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

WHY MUST YOU WRITE THIS CR@P?


May 13, 2013, 1:52 PM

Every single time you write stuff like this, USC fans send it to me saying, "see..even your own website admits we're THE university of SC." Come on Mickey... stop giving them this type of ammo ;)

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

LOL Mickey, the only thing SCAR has passed Clemson in


May 13, 2013, 2:09 PM

is handing out diplomas. Sure, their sports teams are on a roll right now, but the reason it may be more of a school of "choice" now is because Clemson has become very selective. I was the only kid of my "generation" in my extended family to get into Clemson. The rest went to USuC Upstate, Winthrop, and yes, USuC-Central. All had applied to Clemson.

This little run by SCAR will be over soon, and all these Burgundy flags and t-shirts will disappear. I remember in the 90s when Clemson was dominating South Carolina in all 3 major sports for years. SCAR did not go away. Neither will we.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Mickey Plyler's Blog: Crossroads


May 13, 2013, 2:48 PM

The top student in my high school class was not accepted to Clemson in 1972! Her SAT was too low. She went to another school for a year, made 4.0 like she did in HS then transferred to Clemson, where I think she made one B and graduated near the top of her class.
Point is Clemson has been an elite school for a long time and unless Clemson increases the enrollment it will continue to be!
Recruiting has no direct correlation with how elite the school is. Standford is doing pretty well, Vanderbilt and Duke are improving. I think if we can keep Morris and Venables a couple of more years we might have another 4peat on the gamecocks.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

The point here is that Clemson needs to do a better job


May 13, 2013, 3:03 PM

attracting the blue collar students of the state--the hard workers--the folk who may not score a bazillion on the SAT but will out work you for a degree and succeed despite what you think of them. That was many of the students of my Clemson generation.

GO TIGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: The point here is that Clemson needs to do a better job


May 13, 2013, 4:12 PM

When was your generation? My friend was the best student I ever met. Always worked hard and made excellent grades. But she was not admitted in 1972.
You must be really old before Clemson admitted women?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Your generation vs Mine ?


May 13, 2013, 9:32 PM

Go check the records ...... Look at the diversity since 1962!

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


The admissions "formula" has changed since 1972


May 14, 2013, 9:12 AM [ in reply to The point here is that Clemson needs to do a better job ]

I don't know the exact formula and they tweak it every year but I was privy to it a few years ago. The following is what they use in order of importance:

Class rank percentile adjusted for the High School*
SAT/ACT
Grades
Extra Curricular/Legacies

* This weighted much more than SAT because it is believed to be a measure of effort. The instate schools are tiered and some out of state because it much easier to be in the top 10% of your class in a "bad" school like Marion High School than it is at Dutch Fork HS.

I do know this - if you want it bad enough you CAN get in. Do as well as possibile in HS, go the Bridge route or go the Tech-transfer route. I know lots of kids that didn't get in the traditional way but were able to graduate from Clemson.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Mickey Plyler's Blog: Crossroads


May 13, 2013, 3:15 PM

I disagree that Clemson was for the common "man" and Scar wasn't simply because we have traditionally been a smaller school while they have had close to 20k students for a long time. They have been the common school if anything while we were getting ag focused people as well as engineers architects and the like.
I will agree however that because the focus in our state seems to be moving away from agriculture that it would seem that they are more of the school of choice at the moment. I do not want ag to take a back seat however because I think there are dynamic things happening in ag and if our leadership sees that and move us into those fields that we will be as strong as ever.

2024 orange level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I am a senior in high school this year


May 13, 2013, 3:26 PM

And I can tell you this article is pretty accurate. Lots of people at my who have grown up loving clemson aren't even applying there now because they think they have no chance of getting in and don't want "to be an idiot" and go to the bridge program. I know plenty of my friends that go to the bridge program and LOVE IT. I believe it really is an issue that needs to be addressed. I got into the packaging science program with 4.0 and 1190 on the SAT without the writing.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: I am a senior in high school this year


May 13, 2013, 4:17 PM

There are limits on certain majors, i am not sure what they are but I have heard there are. 30 years ago when i went they weeded out a lot freshman out of those programs pretty quickly. I think the only thing that has changed is now the weeding is done up front. during admissions.

Several of my friends from high school did not make it past their freshman year.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I would never want Clemson to have SC's admission standards


May 13, 2013, 4:27 PM

there were a ton of kids at my high school who got into Sakerlina who completely shocked me. I was amazed that some of these kids got into ANY 4 year institution, much less a school that I felt (at the time) to be fairly reputable.

I saw a pretty good chunk of those kids not make it past their first year at South Carolina, either transferring to other schools or failing out completely.

I much prefer Clemson's policy of admitting kids who have all of the tools to graduate and providing a route to Clemson for those who may be more borderline students through the Bridge program.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Mickey Plyler's Blog: Crossroads


May 13, 2013, 5:49 PM

I find Mickey's observations to be very accurate. I have two relatives who are SC high School coaches and they agree that S. Carolina is now the school of choice among the majority of the students at their high schools. Both of them are Clemson grads by the way. The bridge program only exists because of Top 20. We are building new dorms on campus to house the bridge program but they will still be in bridge. The composition of our student body has changed. A much smaller percentage are true sports fans. They go to football for tailgating. They don't go to much of anything else. With this trend, we will lose our reputation for being a tough place to play within the next 10 to 15 years. I would like to see us increase in state enrollment from 65% to 75% of the student body. And don't count the bridge numbers in that!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I want to be like them?


May 13, 2013, 8:10 PM

Noooooooooooo!

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


I can't relate AT ALL to what you said, Mickey.


May 13, 2013, 8:35 PM

Clemson should be the best it can be. Clemson is a state school, but that clearly means something different to you than it does to me. I believe that Clemson should accept the best and brightest. It should be easier for a SC resident to get in, compared to someone from out of state. But Clemson is under no obligation to accept someone just because they are from SC.

Just so you know, Clemson historically accepts 2/3 of its students from in state and 1/3 from out of state. This proportion has been maintained as Clemson has improved in the academic rankings over the years. Thus, Clemson is getting more applications from the best and brightest, and can accept a higher caliber of student. That is a very good thing!

You want us to get the best football recruits. Why not the best students?!?

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: I can't relate AT ALL to what you said, Mickey.


May 14, 2013, 9:06 AM

Engineers, Nurses, Doctors, Architects, Landscape Architects, Teachers, Business = Clemson

Lawyers, Music Directors, English Professors, Teachers, Journalist, Business = SC

I have a sister that is a lawyer (SC Law), a sister that is an English teacher (Masters in Teaching/English from SC), and I am an Electrical Engineer (Clemson 01).
Both Sisters got their undergrad from PC.

IMHO Clemson better prepares students (as undergrads) for a career, but has to be more selective. SC graduates students who then need a masters or higher level education for a more lucrative career.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

More "don't get too smart" posts from Plyler.


May 14, 2013, 9:04 AM

Honestly.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

null


Re: Mickey Plyler's Blog: Crossroads


May 15, 2013, 12:52 PM

This article is totally accurate! As my name suggests I graduated from Clemson in 2003 in engineering.

I was one of the "smart kids" in high school. I did recieve more scholarship money to go to the USuC. But I chose Clemson bc it was a great place to go to school and it was in my blood.

You have to admit though that ever since Barker has been there he has been trying to turn Clemson into the Duke of SC. Yeah we want to have good academic standards, but we dont want to be Duke. You ever met a Duke grad? Do you really want to hang out with them?

The point is that Clemson is wonderful bc of the people who have and will go there, and I bet most of you didnt make 4.0's and 1600's on your SAT's. So let's keep Clemson's history in mind when we go forward and forget about trying to make it Duke. Clemson is wonderful just like it is.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Mickey Plyler's Blog: Crossroads


May 15, 2013, 1:09 PM

Plyler is almost dead wrong about most things in his column. He laments what he sees as the decline of Clemson in his eyes as the 'go to school' of SC. As others have pointed out, he'd just wrong about that. We continue to attract many of the best students in the state and many great students from outside the state. That's good and it's similar to what we've been doing for decades. Back in 1968 when I enrolled, we attracted many of the best students from the state, and we declined to admit marginal students just because Daddy went to Clemson. Most folks from my era can name the names of would be students who scored too low or did not have the grades to get into school. That's what makes Clemson a better school, by any measure, than most other schools. We should never change that approach.

In the article he compared the state of Virginia to SC and said in Virginia, UVa got too uppity and VT became the go to school in the state.

That is just wrong too. VT has had a good football program under Beamer, but the school has LOST ground academically in my lifetime. UVa has always been a good school and in my lifetime it became more recognized as a good school, even while it was dramatically raising it's athletic profile. Yep, VT has been better in football than UVa over the past 15 years. Otherwise, his assertion that VT has become the higher profile go to school in the state is just stupid.

Clemson remains the school of choice in SC for good students and it has dramatically raised it's academic and athletic profile in my lifetime. Specifically over the past 35 years, we have gone from the backwoods to nearly front and center nationally academically and athletically. When I started school, NO ONE ranked us as a top 30 school. And NO ONE thought of us as a top football program 40 years ago either. Anyone can verify this by comparing our records versus the better teams in the country before 1975 or so.

As far as blue collar kids.....Clemson has always been the school for smart kids, from any background. And it's always been the school in the state than many could not attend because of grades or much more often, work ethic. Almost any child of almost any Clemson graduate can gain admission to Clemson by working hard. You can't start that hard work in the 12th grade, but that should be obvious. If a person is not a hard worker in high school, Clemson should be out of reach. Sorry but that is the way it is and it has been like that for a long time.

There are more good students in SC than there once were. You gotta work harder and be better to get into CU now than in the 60s. Anyone apologizing or regretting that fact is just wrong AND they are not doing any good service to the school OR to the kids of the classes we ought to admit next year and the next year and so on forever.

Yep, SC is at a high point athletically right now. That does attract a gaggle of lightweight hangers on. And it even attracts some good students. But it's always been like that. In the late 60s, early 70s, when SC was better than Clemson in basketball and football, they were also more popular. So we gotta win more games.

Otherwise, Plyler is just dead wrong in his crossroads column.

That's my take.

Harley

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Replies: 25
| visibility 1
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic