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So the BofT has removed Calhoun from the Honors College
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So the BofT has removed Calhoun from the Honors College


Jun 12, 2020, 2:35 PM

Does renaming things solve the problem? NO.

They have asked to rename Tillman Hall. If that goes through I will discontinue giving to the University.

I am in no way racist, but I am adamantly against this new trend to re-write history.

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Re: So the BofT ahs removed Calhoun from the Honors College


Jun 12, 2020, 2:36 PM

Which part of history are they going to rewrite?

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The part where Elmer Fudd had a firearm***


Jun 12, 2020, 4:31 PM



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The history still exists. It's all there in books.


Jun 12, 2020, 2:39 PM

Were you getting your history from the names of buildings? If you read and know even a little about Ben Tillman, you should be ok with having his name and association removed from Clemson University forever. Ben Tillman will always exist in history for whoever wants to read about him. If you're so proud of him that you stop giving to Clemson because they disassociated with him, then I imagine Clemson can live without your funds anyway.

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It's not just Clemson, it's nationwide.


Jun 12, 2020, 2:47 PM

VA wants to remove the RE Lee statue. Pelosi wants any confederate statues removed from DC. All in the name of BLM because they are "offended". Bless their hearts.

Well I'm offended they want to disrespect history. I'm offended that there are Obama statues. Tear them down. How about the Clinton Library. He was a known sexist that committed adultery. How about changing the name of anything with Clinton on it. Oh, that doesn't fit the liberal agenda, I get it.

####, BLM even defaced Lincoln statues. Anybody would know he did more for blacks than any other president. He was a republican, BTW.

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If you feel strongly about those Clinton and Obama statues


Jun 12, 2020, 2:50 PM

You should try to move your government to act on it. There's nothing wrong with that.

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"Move your government to act on it" by


Jun 12, 2020, 3:10 PM



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No, I would recommend writing your Congressman.


Jun 12, 2020, 3:12 PM

The things you are talking about are illegal, so I would not recommend those actions.

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Yet that is what the "activists" and "peaceful protesters"


Jun 12, 2020, 3:16 PM



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Uh, no.


Jun 12, 2020, 4:00 PM

I think all illegal actions should not be done.

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I strongly, strongly recommend you disregard BLM,


Jun 12, 2020, 2:52 PM [ in reply to It's not just Clemson, it's nationwide. ]

and have some actual conversations with black people not associated with BLM. And since you're such an advocate of history, I also strongly recommend you research when particular statues and monuments were erected, and see if you can find any correlation to political events in those years/eras. If you're choosing to willfully ignore the fundamental reason behind almost all of these monuments, that says a good bit about where you are on this.

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Will they be removing Thomas Jefferson's statue as well


Jun 12, 2020, 4:32 PM [ in reply to It's not just Clemson, it's nationwide. ]

I know he didn't fight to keep slavery but he did own 600 slaves. I guess that's different.

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Didn’t know there was a Thomas Jefferson statue in Clemson.***


Jun 12, 2020, 4:57 PM



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I was referencing the comment about Pelosi having the


Jun 12, 2020, 4:59 PM

confederate statues removed from DC

Try to keep up

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Does it solve what problem?


Jun 12, 2020, 2:41 PM

I don't understand why people say that changing names of things "re-writes history". That makes no sense to me.

Do you think that because Calhoun's name is erased from a college's name, it will also be magically erased from history books?

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are you ok with removing Jesus from all bibles?***


Jun 12, 2020, 2:52 PM



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That makes no sense.


Jun 12, 2020, 2:53 PM

That's like asking if I'm in favor of taking pudding out of the number eight.

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why doesnt it make sense to you?***


Jun 12, 2020, 2:55 PM



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Jesus is the Bible, and the Bible is Jesus.


Jun 12, 2020, 2:56 PM

You can't remove Jesus from a Bible any more than you can remove water from ice.

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the bible has lots of other stuff in there besides Jesus


Jun 12, 2020, 2:58 PM

the bible isnt Jesus

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We disagree on that.


Jun 12, 2020, 2:59 PM

John 1:1-14

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Why would you disagree with removing his name?


Jun 12, 2020, 3:01 PM

History would still be alive and remember him, correct?

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I didn't say I was against "removing his name"


Jun 12, 2020, 3:04 PM

I said there was no such thing as "removing His name".

I should also note, because this may not be understood, that I do not personally advocate for removing Calhoun's or Tillman's name from anything. I have no problem with things being named after them.

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you're not against removing Jesus' name from Bibles?***


Jun 12, 2020, 3:06 PM



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That's impossible thing to do.


Jun 12, 2020, 3:11 PM

So I am neither for nor against this theoretical action.

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You argue like a wife...


Jun 12, 2020, 3:04 PM [ in reply to Why would you disagree with removing his name? ]

you start with a ridiculously dumb premise and then try to trap someone into arguing offshoots of the ridiculous premise.

Not my wife, she argues like a saint. Other people's wives, I mean.

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lol, that is funny BC


Jun 12, 2020, 3:09 PM

I'm purposely mimicing what PROD does every time he posts.
He does the stupid act and then just asks questions. What do you mean by..... Why....? Does it really mean...?

So thank you for pointing that out. Exactly what i was trying to do here. You helped me out more than you can imagine

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MIC drop on the Prod.***


Jun 12, 2020, 3:10 PM



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LOL


Jun 12, 2020, 3:19 PM

<###### src='https://gfycat.com/ifr/BowedRareCutworm' frameborder='0' scrolling='no' allowfullscreen width='640' height='519'>

via Gfycat



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Except you're not at all doing what he does...


Jun 12, 2020, 3:11 PM [ in reply to lol, that is funny BC ]

he doesn't start off with the dumbest analogy in the history of mankind and then try to get people to argue about the particulars. He literally just asks questions. Usually in a linear fashion.

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It's too late. He's already claimed himself the winner.***


Jun 12, 2020, 3:13 PM



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There's no winning or losing.


Jun 12, 2020, 3:14 PM

We're exchanging ideas, hopefully learning more from each other along the way.

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blah blah, stick to your pudding and number eights


Jun 12, 2020, 3:27 PM

;)

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can I ask what flavor pudding??


Jun 12, 2020, 4:14 PM

I feel like it's important

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It's Prod...


Jun 12, 2020, 4:26 PM

so vanilla, of course ;)

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I see what you're saying, but it's hilarious how wrong


Jun 12, 2020, 4:30 PM

that is. I've never had vanilla pudding in my life. But I eat a chocolate pudding cup almost every day of my life. Don't ask me why. I've brought the same exact lunch to work every day for probably five years now.

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this is, quite possibly, the


Jun 12, 2020, 4:32 PM

least surprised I've ever been in my entire life.



that said, I could handle having a pudding cup a day. I might actually go see if we've got any

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I'm telling you man. It's comforting.***


Jun 12, 2020, 4:33 PM



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Sure, but have you had...


Jun 12, 2020, 5:20 PM



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Everybody knows that 7 ate 9


Jun 12, 2020, 4:51 PM [ in reply to I see what you're saying, but it's hilarious how wrong ]

Surely there's some pudding in there somewhere.


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Re: It's too late. He's already claimed himself the winner.***


Jun 12, 2020, 3:27 PM [ in reply to It's too late. He's already claimed himself the winner.*** ]



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Because Tillman ain't Jesus and the Bible ain't


Jun 12, 2020, 2:57 PM [ in reply to why doesnt it make sense to you?*** ]

a clock tower in Clemson owned by a publicly funded University. Your analogy is possibly the worst attempt at arguing by analogy that has ever occurred on this web site and perhaps anywhere in the world at any point in the history of mankind. It's literally completely nonsensical.

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That's why it's brilliant. You can't argue against it.


Jun 12, 2020, 2:58 PM

Unless you like pudding in your number eight as Prod would say.

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A more effective argument would have been...


Jun 12, 2020, 3:22 PM [ in reply to Because Tillman ain't Jesus and the Bible ain't ]

"Are you in favor of removing Jesus' name from _____" some other document, any document besides a Bible.

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Lulz.***


Jun 12, 2020, 4:09 PM [ in reply to are you ok with removing Jesus from all bibles?*** ]



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Old Testament worked okay***


Jun 12, 2020, 4:48 PM [ in reply to are you ok with removing Jesus from all bibles?*** ]



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the college was possible because calhoun land***


Jun 12, 2020, 7:03 PM [ in reply to Does it solve what problem? ]



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Re: So the BofT ahs removed Calhoun from the Honors College


Jun 12, 2020, 2:43 PM

I don’t know where all the white hooded dudes with pitchforks are going to gather now that the place of worship has been defaced [/sarcasm for the dolts]


Changing the name to Old Main should really help with racial disparity, poverty, income inequality, etc in the U.S.




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It doesn't automatically help those things, but if you want


Jun 12, 2020, 2:45 PM

to argue that systemic racism doesn't exist, but Old Main Hall was renamed Tillman Hall after a virulent racist in the midst of the Civil Rights movement and desegregation, well...that don't add up so much, now does it?

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Re: It doesn't automatically help those things, but if you want


Jun 12, 2020, 3:00 PM

I’d say that’s a good example of systemic racism during the civil war...but not now. I’m guessing the vast majority didn’t even know or associate Calhoun or Tillman with racism. I’m sure for modern students, those places/names meant something else to them entirely. And now when they question why a part of their ow history has to change, they’re deemed proponents of racism? Mind blown...

We may want to look at changing our last names btw...historical ties to racism and all.

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Strawman.


Jun 12, 2020, 2:46 PM [ in reply to Re: So the BofT ahs removed Calhoun from the Honors College ]

No one thinks it will help with "racial disparity, poverty, income inequality, etc in the U.S.". That's ridiculous.

It will help with the issue of Tillman hall being named after Ben Tillman. That's the problem it will solve. And it looks like it's a big enough problem to do it.

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And when did this problem arise?


Jun 12, 2020, 2:57 PM

When a white cop murdered a black man in another state?

Where was the outcry prior? I know it’s been called in to question before, but did it take another incident to spark that discussion?

The sentiment is weak. It’s like apologizing to your wife after you beat her. It wouldn’t be a straw man if it wasn’t brought up in this exact instance. It takes a murder for this to become a headline? It’s like saying, ‘see, we’re not racist...we changed the name of these buildings.”

Pat yourself on the back. Injustice solved...

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People have been arguing about this on this board


Jun 12, 2020, 2:59 PM

for as long as I've been here, which is like 15 years. The argument didn't start this week.

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Re: People have been arguing about this on this board


Jun 12, 2020, 3:02 PM

I said that...and what other instances brought up those discussions? I think a banana was involved at one time...

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OK...and what prompted you to eat earlier today?


Jun 12, 2020, 3:05 PM

Because you got hungry. What's the problem with incidents motivating people to actions? That's how humans work.

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Re: OK...and what prompted you to eat earlier today?


Jun 12, 2020, 3:22 PM

Because it’s not an action. It’s exactly the opposite, it’s inaction. No problem is being solved...it’s a reactionary tactic to appease a small but vocal crowd who are probably mostly white. It’s disingenuous...and I see no end to this. Should we start researching all historical ties to every facet of our life? What about men who didn’t support women’s rights? Should all those misogynist be wiped from all buildings and monuments. If not, you’re a misogynistic jackaz. There’s literally a plethora of criticism that could be thrown at just about any historical figure.

I’d imagine many don’t because you’re romanticized with this charade of social justice. In time, when it goes further down the road, I’m guessing more of you will cross over here to the ‘dark side.’

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To be clear, I'm do not advocate for renaming anything.


Jun 12, 2020, 3:32 PM

I just also don't demonize people who do advocate for it. I have a "to each his own" outlook. If people don't like it, that's fine. If they do like it, that's fine.

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Re: To be clear, I'm do not advocate for renaming anything.


Jun 12, 2020, 3:40 PM

I don’t think that’s a bad way to be. But I think the opposing voices should be heard and not instantly dismissed or attributed to closet racism (none of which I’m suggesting you are doing but I do see it from others).

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I agree with that.***


Jun 12, 2020, 3:44 PM



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Re: thought that was the reason to rename to stop racism***


Jun 12, 2020, 5:59 PM [ in reply to Strawman. ]



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Name was changed TO Tillman in 46.


Jun 12, 2020, 2:43 PM

They've already "rewritten history".

Why is this just now becoming an issue? Seems the "trend" started almost 75 years ago.

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you need to "woke" up ;-)***


Jun 12, 2020, 2:45 PM



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It's crazy that we still live in an age where people say


Jun 12, 2020, 2:45 PM

"I'm not racist, but..."

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you're not an idiot, BUT***


Jun 12, 2020, 2:46 PM



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I like when someone does it in person...


Jun 12, 2020, 3:07 PM [ in reply to It's crazy that we still live in an age where people say ]

and looks around first to make sure there are no black people listening.

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Re: I like when someone does it in person...


Jun 12, 2020, 4:00 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LGEiIL1__s

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My neighbor did that


Jun 12, 2020, 4:56 PM [ in reply to I like when someone does it in person... ]

We were talking in our driveways. Nobody outside within 50 yards of us. He still looked over both shoulders before making a statement that a 'two families of Mexicans could live in our garage'.

Curious mix of complimenting the size of our newly built garage while still insulting folks. Ehh, old white dudes never let me down.

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I think you probably know I'm not in favor of most of this


Jun 12, 2020, 2:47 PM

renaming stuff. Having said that...when you read about Ben Tillman, it's pretty shocking even for the period. And if what I've read is true that we named it Tillman Hall in response to integration in other Universities, it bears some reasonable soul searching as to the name.

I don't know enough about Calhoun to comment.

In general, I think we'll find that a purity test calibrated to 2020 for influential people in our history is not the way to go. Imperfect men and women contributed a lot to this world. I don't even like the message - we only appreciate you if you were perfect. That's not the message we should have for historical figures or people today.

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null


That's a strawman, too.


Jun 12, 2020, 2:49 PM

"we only appreciate you if you were perfect". Who's arguing that?

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Calling this game a bit tight, ref.


Jun 12, 2020, 6:58 PM

It was hyperbole more than a straw man.

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null


I cannot see the affinity for any building name


Jun 12, 2020, 3:05 PM

but I can see how certain building names may offend people

Old Main was a good name

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Cat on a tin roof, dogs in a pile,
Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile!!!!


I'm fine with naming it that.


Jun 12, 2020, 3:10 PM

I'm not good with renaming Clemson, however.

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Lulz. How does it rewrite history?***


Jun 12, 2020, 4:08 PM



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Seriously? Your money, your call...


Jun 12, 2020, 4:40 PM

but if you will stop supporting Clemson because they change the name of a building BACK to the original name of the building, then...well....that sits pretty silly to me.

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