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Topic: This will not be a popular opinion
Replies: 52   Last Post: Jun 6, 2019 2:21 PM by: Clemalum07®
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Replies: 52  

This will not be a popular opinion

[8]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 6:20 PM
    Reply

But if you can’t see or defend the problems associated with our baseman’s basketball programs, then you too, are a part of the problem.

Monte is clueless. Want proof? Watch the games, you will see. His managing of baseball 101 is laughable.

Brownlee is the biggest fraud who’s ever coached in the ACC. This clown loses every close game. Want proof? Watch the games.


We deserve better and if you can’t see it, you’re a part of the problem.


lets talk who to hire before fire***


Posted: Jun 2, 2019 6:26 PM
    Reply




Re: lets talk who to hire before fire***

[2]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 6:57 PM
    Reply

Offer the Duke Coach 600k he will be here tomorrow.
Duke is well Coached has over achieved the last 2 years.
They play gritty good fundamental baseball and the pitching staff is always solid.
They were 1 game from the CWS last season and lost most of the key players from that team and had a decent year this season.
They will be hard to beat next season


Actually still playing.

[1]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 7:03 PM
    Reply

Are in winners round in Morgantown. A&M has to beat them twice to eliminate them from another super regional.


Re: Actually still playing.

[1]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 7:09 PM
    Reply

They lost a ton from last years team and got better as the year has gone on .
A sign of good Coaching.
We are the opposite, our players are better before they get here . After a full season here they forget how to play baseball.


already hired their pitching coach***


Posted: Jun 3, 2019 7:51 AM
    Reply




Half of the Clemson fanbase defended Tommy Bowden

[3]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 6:27 PM
    Reply

up until Dabo beat LSU in the Peach Bowl. The fear of getting worse overrides the hope of getting better for some people.

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Ora

Re: This will not be a popular opinion

[1]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 6:50 PM
    Reply

I bet you are an emotional guy!


“our baseman’s basketball programs...”?***

[4]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 6:52 PM
    Reply

null




2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


It’s how the kids these days say

[2]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 7:06 PM
    Reply

“our baseman’s basketball program”

military_donation.jpg

Re: It’s how the kids these days say


Posted: Jun 2, 2019 7:15 PM
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Samir says, “yes, this is harrible..”

2019 white level member

You wouldn't understand because you don't

[1]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 9:26 PM
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speak cluckonics.


You are keerect, it's not a popular opinion. If Brownell

[1]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 7:18 PM
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gets 9+ years, Monte deserves more than 4. I don't think there are many coaches out there who would have taken this team much further than we went, with this same pitching staff. We need some better quality arms. Think back, when did we last have a pitcher who was considered elite? Not good, ELITE. It's been awhile. We get back some arms that were lost before the season even began for next year, I will wait and see.

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Re: You are keerect, it's not a popular opinion. If Brownell


Posted: Jun 2, 2019 7:41 PM
    Reply

Well our baseball program has a history of being elite which is not the case with basketball, so I wouldn’t say a baseball manager deserves the same amount of years as our basketball coach.

In terms of the pitching, who exactly is in charge of getting good pitchers on our roster?


Our football program is elite...

[3]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 8:22 PM
    Reply

Our baseball program has a history of being good.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Our baseball program has been much better than it is.

[2]
Posted: Jun 3, 2019 7:54 AM
    Reply

Good, bad, indifferent or some/sum of any points in between.

Elite probably too strong a word without the Omaha hardware.

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Agreed.***

[1]
Posted: Jun 3, 2019 8:29 AM
    Reply



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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Let me get this straight.

[5]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 7:25 PM
    Reply

You want to fire a coach after just four years here who has made the NCAAs every year and represents our school well, in a sport that loses money every year?

I want to win too, but firing a coach this early in his tenure in a sport which really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of college athletics is just ludicrous.

He deserves another 2-3 years in my book, and if he hasn't gotten us to Omaha by then, I'll agree that it's time to go in a different direction.

2019 white level member

Re: Let me get this straight.

[1]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 7:51 PM
    Reply

I bet the people working for you LOVE you because no matter how many times they screw up they don’t have to worry about getting fired.....Go Tigers!!!!!!!


I’m all for big goals and high expectations, but

[2]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 8:19 PM
    Reply

the truth is that we haven’t been a baseball power in a long time. I believe we can get back there, but four years into Monte’s tenure is too soon to demand a change.

Baseball on the college level is broken. Many top signees decide to go pro instead of coming to college. Plus, some schools circumvent the scholarship limit by giving players academic scholarships from their endowments. The playing field isn’t level.

These aren’t excuses. I believe we should still see our program recruit well, and improve throughout the course of the season. We shouldn’t lose to Jacksonville State in anything. But some people here are overreacting.

At the end of the day, it’s just baseball and it loses money every year.

2019 white level member

Re: I’m all for big goals and high expectations, but

[1]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 8:23 PM
    Reply

That last statement about “ at the end of the day it’s just baseball and it loses money “.... is a disgrace.

You’re a disgrace.

I’ve never encountered anyone on message board that I dislike anymore than you. I think you’re a fool and EVERYTHING that isn’t Clemson.

You’re a fool.


Thanks, I’m honored.***


Posted: Jun 2, 2019 8:50 PM
    Reply



2019 white level member

Re: Thanks, I’m honored.***

[1]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 11:24 PM
    Reply

You are a disgrace for thinking baseball loses money and is insignificant. Tell me, where is all this money being lost? 11 scholarships a year? Baseball had a perfect 1.000 apr... Lots of great kids that will make a huge impact on society.

I call that a win. Not a disgrace!

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Tell him how you really feel***


Posted: Jun 3, 2019 8:44 AM
    Reply



2019 white level member

Re: I’m all for big goals and high expectations, but

[1]
Posted: Jun 3, 2019 7:30 PM
    Reply

What's wrong with stating a fact? FYE 2018 baseball only had revenues of $1,998,787 and expenses of $3,620,802 for a loss of about 1.62 Million. Like it or not baseball is not a major college sport.

https://clemsontigers.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/EADA-2018.pdf

2019 student level member

Re: I’m all for big goals and high expectations, but


Posted: Jun 3, 2019 8:04 PM
    Reply

You’re right, I’m not privy to all the financial issues and how the numbers are crunched but I believe you missed my point in that any sport that produces 20 youngsters that score perfect on the APR will contribute way more than just the raw gross losses.

Taking jk approach, then any academic scholarship is a waste of time because it cost the university money.

Btw- there’s a ton of people that think baseball is a major sport. We drew more people for baseball attendance than b-ball. More people attend baseball games at ole miss and LSU than they attend b-ball.

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Re: I’m all for big goals and high expectations, but

[1]
Posted: Jun 3, 2019 11:41 PM
    Reply

I'm not saying that college baseball is a waste of time, because it's really the last form of playing the game for passion and not as a career. With that being said, conferences dont sign TV deals for college baseball, and it doesnt have a large following outside of a select few schools. Even in a down year that our basketball team underachieved average home attendance was higher (7,015) than the DKS all time attendance record (6,524).

2019 student level member

college baseball is broken? there's a lot of teams that are

[3]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 8:51 PM
    Reply

doing a better job than we are... I'm sick of hearing excuses for Brad and Monte.

It's always the environment around us, tough ACC schedule.. etc. etc. There's no excuse to have losing cultures in both of these programs.

Look at our women's basketball team.. We made a million excuses for them too and finally we hired a winner. Her players are gritty, tough and confident. Just like Dabo's. Players take on the personality of their coaches.. We are BLOWING it. They are never going to be profitable.. JUST WIN ######

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Re: Let me get this straight.

[4]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 8:59 PM
    Reply

This is a complete logical fallacy. We fired a Hall of Famer would went to 11 Super Regionals and 6 College World Series in 17 seasons because one 5 year stretch without either was too much to give him a vote of confidence. Now, the coach who inherited a great crop of players and brand new facilities that Leggett personally raised the funds for deserves more? We fired Leggett on the premise that everything is in place for Clemson to be an elite baseball program and that his failure to advance from 2011-2015 was solely his responsibility. Lee should be held to no less a standard. And, if it’s “just baseball”. This is a contract year for Lee anyway. He only has 3 seasons left on his contract. Since most athletic departments have been duped into believing coaches have to have 4 years on their contract, we’re at the point where we invest even more money in Lee And tie ourselves to him further despite him not doing what he was brought in to do. Financially, it would pretty much be a wash to let him go.


If those were the expectations laid out for Monte when he was hired


Posted: Jun 2, 2019 9:11 PM
    Reply

then I agree, he has fallen short of them.

I believe we should be better than we have been recently. I just don’t think baseball justifies firing a likable, winning coach after four years. It’s a minor sport in comparison to football and basketball.

2019 white level member

Re: If those were the expectations laid out for Monte when he was hired


Posted: Jun 2, 2019 9:18 PM
    Reply

What does likability have to do with this? I assume you were solidly and vocally against Leggett’s firing, or did he fail the likeability test too. Because everyone thought he was perfectly likeable until SCar booted him from the post-season 3 seasons in a row. Nevermind that they played for 3 consecutive CWS championships and won 2 in that stretch.


My point is that he represents the program well.

[1]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 10:01 PM
    Reply

Seems like a nice guy who recruits good players who do well on and off the field.

That alone isn't worth keeping a guy, but I do believe it should earn a coach some grace. It would be easier to fire someone who is a huge jerk who runs a dirty program.

2019 white level member

Re: This will not be a popular opinion

[2]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 7:36 PM
    Reply

I don't want to fire Monte either, but he is going to have to start showing something in the next couple of years. I want our team to be competitive and I want to see players develop and improve from year to year. Someone can probably show me statistics to prove me wrong, but I have not seen a lot of improvement in Davidson, Green, Teodosio, Hall, and several others. I like how Wilkie has progressed, but he has always been a productive hitter as the season moves along. His defense is sometimes spectacular and sometimes not, but overall pretty solid. Byrd has gotten better, especially as a hitter.

I don't think I can name a single pitcher who has gotten better but can name at least five who have gotten worse. I don't know what Monte has to do, but doing the same thing over and over does not seem to be working.


How do you really feel!***


Posted: Jun 2, 2019 7:52 PM
    Reply




Needs to advance from a regional next year or needs to go

[2]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 8:33 PM
    Reply

This is Clemson baseball, and Monty was brought in to take us back to Omaha, not just make the NCAA tournament. End of discussion


Re: This will not be a popular opinion

[1]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 9:13 PM
    Reply

Should have hired Mazzey at WVU or Matt Lecroy whose a minor league coach with the Nationals. Both former Tigers and both would have jumped at the job


WOW!!!

[2]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 9:31 PM
    Reply

Another one of those that only comment when we lose in something and disappear when we win...

I would like to know how you felt during Dabo's first 3 years here...


Re: WOW!!!

[2]
Posted: Jun 2, 2019 10:59 PM
    Reply

Dabo showed significant positive changes, most notably in recruiting, in his earlier seasons. Dabo also took Clemson to the ACC championship 2 in his first 3 full seasons - something Bowden didn’t accomplish in a decade. Lee has not improved upon his predecessor worst seasons in any meaningful way.


Monte won the ACC in his first season ...

[1]
Posted: Jun 3, 2019 8:39 AM
    Reply

Clemson hadn’t won the ACC in quite a while.

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Re: Monte won the ACC in his first season ...


Posted: Jun 3, 2019 10:27 AM
    Reply

If you actually followed college baseball you would know how meaningless that is. If 11 Super Regionals and 6 CWS in 17 seasons bought Leggett no loyalty then what exactly has a coach who has never even been to the CWS in his career done to buy stronger loyalty?


Re: Monte won the ACC in his first season ...

[1]
Posted: Jun 3, 2019 4:41 PM
    Reply

Loyalty to Monte is not part of my statement.

You brought up winning the ACC title as a Clemson sports benchmark.

I just stated a fact.

I agree that simply winning the ACC baseball tournament in and of itself, is not a huge deal.

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Re: Monte won the ACC in his first season ...

[1]
Posted: Jun 3, 2019 5:12 PM
    Reply

And hosted 3 regionals, winning none of them. To get eliminated by a 4 seed is unacceptable. Since winning the ACC with JL's players, the program has plateaued and is now declining. It's obvious. Watch the games. ML can't coach and can't develop players. The program is simply headed in the wrong direction. The only question is how long does Clemson stay with him.


Re: Monte won the ACC in his first season ...

[1]
Posted: Jun 3, 2019 6:13 PM
    Reply

Well, if we’ve learned anything from this Brad Brownell situation, i would say Monte is going to be here a very very long time, unfortunately.


Re: Monte won the ACC in his first season ...

[2]
Posted: Jun 3, 2019 7:30 PM
    Reply

I mentioned it because someone tried to draw an equivalency between Coach Swinney's early years and Coach Lee's when there is no such equivalence. The ACC football championship is significant. You must win your division to get there. Something Bowden never did. The ACC baseball tournament is pool play nonsense designed by the coaches to minimize wear on their players. Coach Lee won after finishing the season 4th in the division. Coach Leggett only finished 4th once in his 10 years of division play. Coach Lee has done it twice in 4. That is regression.


Re: Monte won the ACC in his first season ...


Posted: Jun 6, 2019 2:21 PM
    Reply

Viztiz actively pulls for Monte to fail as a coach...

Just look at my signature for proof...

One more year until you pay up Viztiz.

2019 white level member

March 4th 2016- "Lee won't be here 4 years from today" - Viztiz


Re: WOW!!!

[1]
Posted: Jun 3, 2019 7:01 PM
    Reply

You do realize Dabo was on staff and already a lead recruiter under Bowden. I don’t disagree that he made improvements, but he was already doing that as a WR coach.

I disagree with the narrative that ML is underachieving. I think the program has a long way to go, but it’s more than ML.

2019 white level member

Re: WOW!!!

[2]
Posted: Jun 3, 2019 7:32 PM
    Reply

then you don't actually pay attention to Clemson baseball and just like to have opinions on message boards. As above, in a decade of divisional baseball play Leggett only finished 4th in the ACC once. Lee has done it twice in 4 years. That's definitely trending down.


Re: WOW!!!


Posted: Jun 3, 2019 7:46 PM
    Reply

Go on, what empirical data supports your argument?

Opinions are opinions, but don’t pretend yours is somehow more relevant than someone else’s.

2019 white level member

Everyone that posted in this thread need some facts

[1]
Posted: Jun 3, 2019 9:00 PM
    Reply

Viztiz, I think I understand what you’re trying to say... that leggett is a hof coach. Honestly, imo his firing was a snap decision by the AD based on the two coot n/c and the fact we lost to them in our best chance at a natty.

But I have to agree with bloodbOrange.... there’s more to it than just ML. Jack, as all coaches nowadays would be hard pressed to accomplish what he did in the last decade 00-09.

There’s a couple data that I’ll give you to show what else is going on. First- Monte has a different philosophy than JL. It takes time to make a drastic change like that. Fact

2, his recruit classes are trending upward. Fact.

3. We lost the “Clemson Fund “... I can’t explain exactly what it was but DRad is trying to get it back. I do know it was a creative way to get Monte more money for scholarships in baseball...

4. The 2009 rule changes that took several years to affect College Baseball. The article posted below explains what did and is happening through the eyes of some darn good baseball coaches like Corbin, LSU etc Fact:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_e0fd5b7d-935a-5e2d-b354-0b92d4feb23f.amp.html

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Re: Everyone that posted in this thread need some facts

[1]
Posted: Jun 3, 2019 9:14 PM
    Reply

K2, good post. Thank you. That was a good explanation and in so many words my opinion as well. I’m kind of like you both on JL in terms of his being dismissed, but I’d rather pursue the unknown with ML than knee jerk yet again.

2019 white level member

Re: Everyone that posted in this thread need some facts


Posted: Jun 3, 2019 11:20 PM
    Reply

No, thank you. That’s exactly what I was trying to say to everyone else is that you were stating fscts. I was a little long winded and should have just posted the article.

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Re: Everyone that posted in this thread need some facts

[1]
Posted: Jun 3, 2019 9:18 PM
    Reply

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2019/03/18/clemson-baseball-hurt-end-common-market-aid-coach-says/3139127002/

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Re: Everyone that posted in this thread need some facts

[1]
Posted: Jun 3, 2019 11:22 PM
    Reply

Thank you DSP. I keep calling it the Clemson fund but I never knew exactly what DRad was talking about when they interviewed him and asked him about this.

Really appreciate it.!!!!

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