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Replies: 30
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Legend [15863]
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INSTEAD of playing conf champ games .... WHY NOT just take
Dec 4, 2019, 3:44 PM
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the CURRENT 8 highest ranked teams
and start playoff NOW.
the first round would give the 4 for next 2 games.
let the 2 sec teams play ....
Give Clemson OHIO st
then the next 4
you can just name the conf champs as you wish .....
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Because all you do is shift the argument
Dec 4, 2019, 3:51 PM
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Then everyone would be complaining about Wisconsin getting in over Florida and Penn State.
Here's my solution:
-Play the conference championship games this weekend
-Create a group of people who select the 4 best teams in the country
-The 4 best teams are announced after the conference championship games
-In the semi-final game, the 1 seed plays the 4 seed, while the 2 seed plays the 3 seed
-Then the winner of each game plays in the national championship game
That seems like a perfect solution to me.
Message was edited by: GWPTiger®
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All-In [37023]
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Re: Because all you do is shift the argument
Dec 4, 2019, 3:54 PM
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CU Medallion [56756]
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Re: Because all you do is shift the argument
Dec 4, 2019, 4:26 PM
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Stolen from Larry Culpepper.
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Legend [15212]
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I would make one EASY change to our current system:
Dec 4, 2019, 3:57 PM
[ in reply to Because all you do is shift the argument ] |
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**Conference champions will be considered first when compared to a team whose # of losses is equal to or greater.
A team like Bama a few years ago would still get in because other conference champs had 2 losses. But a team like LSU (if it loses to UGA) would not get in over another 1 loss conference champion Oklahoma or Utah this year.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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And I think that's a problem
Dec 4, 2019, 4:03 PM
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LSU should be in over Oklahoma whether or not LSU wins the SECCG, in my opinion. A loss to #4 Georgia should not be as penalizing as a loss to unranked Kansas State. While Utah's loss was to a ranked USC team, their wins don't compare to LSU's wins.
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CU Medallion [55306]
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Re: And I think that's a problem
Dec 4, 2019, 5:14 PM
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So how should a Notre Dame team be treated, they play no championship game and they never have. IMO, no non conference team should be in a championship game where conference championship help decide who plays for the NC. Tough Tttty said the kitty bc they have made their choice not to take their FB into a conference bc of the money, but they bring their other sports into a conference for a share of the money. ND should be made to choose, the NBC money or a chance to play for a NC, and they shouldn't ever be allowed to have it both ways... With ND playing 12 games a season, and set back and wait to see how it falls with a conference team that is playing 13 games isn't fair and it shouldn't be tolerated in no way shape or form. Play in a conference championship, or play for the NBC cash, choose one or the other, never both!!!
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Well, if they go 12-0 against a quality schedule
Dec 4, 2019, 5:33 PM
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then they get in if the committee determines they are one of the 4 best teams in the country. It's not that difficult.
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All-TigerNet [10805]
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Re: And I think that's a problem
Dec 5, 2019, 4:02 PM
[ in reply to And I think that's a problem ] |
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Yes, but a loss to a team that lost to Uof6C should be eliminated every time. I still don't know how UGA is even #4.
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Legend [16227]
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A non conference champ complaining about an 8 seed
Dec 4, 2019, 4:17 PM
[ in reply to Because all you do is shift the argument ] |
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doesn't quite carry the merit. Somebody's fans will complain about any system that involves subjective rankings if they're left out. Would much rather see us ditch divisions, go regular season champs, and replace the 5 CCG's with 4 quarterfinal games - top 4 hosting.
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CU Medallion [56756]
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Re: A non conference champ complaining about an 8 seed
Dec 4, 2019, 4:30 PM
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Plus if we are ever out of the top 4 we’d get to visit some historic stadiums like the Horseshoe or the Big House that we don’t get to now. Then hope for UCLA, USC, Hawaii to get good.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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So what do you do if you ditch divisions, go regular
Dec 4, 2019, 4:56 PM
[ in reply to A non conference champ complaining about an 8 seed ] |
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season champs and there are ties for first place where the teams didn't play head to head? Also, how do you determine who the top 4 hosting will be? Which 8 conferences do you allow into the playoffs and which ones do you exclude, and how do you determine those?
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Legend [16227]
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Considering conferences had been operating under this
Dec 5, 2019, 3:02 PM
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format for decades prior to CCG's (SEC, Big 10, Southern Conference, Pac 10), there is plenty of precedence.
If no head-to-head to determine a champion, next step is record against common opponents. After that you defer to the CFP rankings. Conferences did this with BCS rankings also when assigning to contracted bowls. The key is that the Power 5 conferences all agree to the same tie-breaker format for the purpose of earning that conference's automatic berth. A conference could elect to name co-champions if that's what suits them, but only one would claim the auto berth per the agreed-upon tie-breaker formula.
This year, Utah would gain the edge over Oregon via that same approach. They each have 8-1 conference records, no head-to-head, and their common opponent record is also equal (USC / AZ St as losses to one or the other). CFP has Utah ranked higher, so there you go. Pretty clear cut also.
In 2017, Miami would have claimed the auto berth over Clemson (Syracuse in common, and we didn't play Pitt that year). However, Clemson would likely still have entered the CFP as the #1 seed as an at-large, as we were #1 heading into the ACCCG against Miami (#7 at the time). USC would have moved up from the 10 spot to an 8 seed as Pac 12 champ, bumping Ohio State (#8) out. We would have hosted USC, Auburn would host #7 Miami. UGA would have played @ OK, Bama would have played @ Wisconsin if you go by the CFP the week leading into the CCG's.
Power 5 conference champs get automatic berths. No auto berth for G5 conferences - that's where the 3 at-large opportunity is, ND included.
The Top 4 hosting would be based on CFP committee rankings / seedings, as the entire playoff formula is based today.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: Because all you do is shift the argument
Dec 4, 2019, 5:19 PM
[ in reply to Because all you do is shift the argument ] |
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Last year Notre Dame got in without having to play a Conference Championship game.
Care to tell us how that is fair?
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Sure, that's an easy one to answer
Dec 4, 2019, 5:32 PM
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they were determined to be one of the 4 best teams in the country. Year before that, Bama was determined to be one of the 4 best teams in the country without having to play a conference championship game, and they won a national championship. In 2015 Oklahoma got in without having to play a conference championship game.
Next question...
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Legend [15212]
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I'm not for the conventional playoff expansion, but I agree
Dec 4, 2019, 3:53 PM
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with you about just getting rid of these conference championship games and go ahead and have the first round of an 8 team playoff right now.
I could live with something like that with a stipulation that all 5 conferences must have a representative.
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Legend [15863]
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Yeah - right - why do we have play Virginia? just play the
Dec 4, 2019, 4:07 PM
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top 8 teams NOW.
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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My plan - (I believe conf champions should be rewarded)
Dec 4, 2019, 4:10 PM
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Only Conference champions get guaranteed to move forward. This takes out the resume/strength of schedule/ etc. win and you get considered. Yes, you might have a 7-4 team pull the big upset - well - the other team had the chance.
so - 10 conf champions.
I would then allow up to 2 at-large teams to be considered and added to the list - with the following qualification:
they must be ranked in the top 10 of the AP pole and no more than 1 at large per conference.
so - now we have a potential of 12 teams.
at this point - the committee will rank the teams.
the top 4 will play for the championship. So - while the 7-4 example above does get into the mix - they would not be chosen for the final 4.
To me - then - it really rewards the conference champions. It stops the nonsense of the SEC thinking they should get all 4 slots.
JMO anyway.
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Oculus Spirit [97675]
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They will be rewarded no matter what.
Dec 4, 2019, 4:28 PM
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If they're top 8 before the game, which most conference champions WILL ALREADY BE, they get a shot at the playoffs. As a kid, Clemson won the ACC and we marched right off to whatever bowl game we landed. That was our reward then. If you don't make the top 8, you go to a bowl. Honestly, if you're not in the top 8, you don't realistically have a chance.
Then three games decides the winner.
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Team Captain [473]
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Re: My plan - (I believe conf champions should be rewarded)
Dec 4, 2019, 4:40 PM
[ in reply to My plan - (I believe conf champions should be rewarded) ] |
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I like the outline here. I would propose all conferences go to 10 teams, play round robin like the big 12. Conference champs auto bid. 3 at large to figure out later.
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Legend [17248]
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WHY NOT have Finebaum chair a playoff committee of SEC ...
Dec 4, 2019, 4:28 PM
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Network commentators and announce a National Champion after Signing Day and the spring games.
Wait .... isn’t that what they do now???
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Legend [17786]
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CFB regular season + CCGs are a playoff eliminator
Dec 4, 2019, 4:28 PM
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Like last year with UGA and Alabama in the SECCG, to a degree this year with LSU and UGA(since UGA is out if they lose), and Baylor/Oklahoma. These are essentially Play In Games. No need to eliminate that when thats the point
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Legend [16227]
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Baylor / Oklahoma may or may not be a play-in game.
Dec 4, 2019, 4:38 PM
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The SEC is likely a play-in for UGA, but if LSU loses they are very likely still in. Utah in the Pac-12 may or may not be a play-in game. The winner won't know if there's a real chance until after the SEC championship game.
The ACC game is a play-in for Clemson. A UVA win accomplishes nothing. The B1G game also - a Wisky win doesn't do squat for them and may or may not bump OSU out, likely not.
These games are like this every year, and too often involve rematches to boot, sometimes only weeks after the first game. Winning and losing - it's still up to a subjective review following.
Just let the regular season serve as a conference championship maker (no need for divisions - yay!), and let subjectivity come in for the 3 at-large spots based on overall season performance, plus seeding.
Letting the top 4 host, especially if this round is moved back a week to allow for better preparation for all involved, adds plenty of incentive to go the distance for the contenders and make sure every regular season game continues to be as special as they are today.
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Orange Blooded [2922]
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Yes...the current top 8 all play this weekend...
Dec 4, 2019, 4:43 PM
[ in reply to CFB regular season + CCGs are a playoff eliminator ] |
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Sure, two of them have games against ‘non-top 8’ teams...but they all have a chance this weekend to win their conference. It’s like having a 8 team playoff (although not technically since there are 10 teams involved)
I do think that the debate for the 4th spot if Oklahoma and Utah both win will be a difficult one. But the way to guarantee a spot is to win all your games. When you lose, even once, you then are at the mercy of things that you cannot control.
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Orange Blooded [2563]
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Re: INSTEAD of playing conf champ games .... WHY NOT just take
Dec 4, 2019, 4:42 PM
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You can't do that.. Let the 2 SEC teams play now?
But then how would we be ensured an all-SEC National Championship?
Oh wait - you mean a double elimination for SEC teams?
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Trainer [26]
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Re: INSTEAD of playing conf champ games .... WHY NOT just take
Dec 4, 2019, 5:27 PM
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I would propose the following:
- expand playoff to 8 teams
- Power 5 champs get automatic bids
- leave subjectivity with the 3 at-large bids (Strong Group of 5 teams or Power 5 teams that did not win conference
- seed 1 through 8
-play playoff games on campus (imagine Clemson/Ohio State in the valley or in Columbus)
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All-TigerNet [10343]
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Re: INSTEAD of playing conf champ games .... WHY NOT just take
Dec 4, 2019, 5:28 PM
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I say all Power 5 conference champs then any left undefeateds. and then pick whoever you want because it really doesn't matter anyway.
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All-TigerNet [10343]
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Re: INSTEAD of playing conf champ games .... WHY NOT just take
Dec 4, 2019, 5:27 PM
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That's basically what happened last year when UGAY lost to Bama then were still being talked into the playoff. These situations are worked out very easily. Win on the field and you don't have to worry about the committee picking you after a loss.
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Re: INSTEAD of playing conf champ games .... WHY NOT just take
Dec 4, 2019, 5:32 PM
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Moving the bubble from 4/5 to 8/9 not only fails to solve the problem, but actually magnifies it because you will have only 2-3 teams mad they are not included in the top 4, but 6-8 teams mad they are not included in the top 8 etc. The farther you kick the can down the street, the worse the total butthurt becomes.
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Legend [16227]
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That also translates into more fan bases tuned into games
Dec 4, 2019, 9:49 PM
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later in the season. A lot of thought is that playoff expansion would diminish the regular season. I don't see it. Essentially the OP's approach is just re-tooling the current post-season conference only games, eliminate one, and make that a quarterfinal weekend instead. At home that first round would be perfect. Less is more.
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Legend [15863]
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who's the wanker that has to thumb down? that you Finebum ?
Dec 4, 2019, 9:24 PM
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you can't just provide a better idea ?
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