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All-In [30788]
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If osu makes it in the playoff over a, the committee
Nov 29, 2016, 11:53 AM
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Is outright stating that conference championships don't mean jack. We are stepping back to the bcs days were polls pick the teams.
The acc, big, pac, and sec should just dump their champ game. Save their team the unnecessary physical punishment of a useless game.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Do you think OSU is one of the top 4 teams
Nov 29, 2016, 11:59 AM
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without taking conference championships into consideration?
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110%er [5627]
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I say no .... USC is better than them right now
Nov 29, 2016, 12:04 PM
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As well as Bamer, Clemson, Wash ... Penn St beat them head to head, so there is that too
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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You can't just say right now, you have to look at the
Nov 29, 2016, 12:10 PM
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entire season. USC's wins and losses do not stack up against OSU's wins and one loss. This isn't college basketball where you can suck the first month of the season and play well towards the end of the season and make the tournament. USC has 2 very good wins over Colorado and Washington, but the losses to Bama, Stanford and Utah sunk their season. PSU does have the head to head over OSU, but are they a better team?
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110%er [5627]
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Well I was answering your question as to if OSU is one
Nov 29, 2016, 12:14 PM
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of the top 4 teams. I know you have to take into account whole season .. but I think USC is better than them. Anyway, I just think the inconsistencies in OSU offense does not make them one of the top four teams. I hope they get there and we get to stomp a mud hole in them !!
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Don't get me wrong, it would be way more entertaining
Nov 29, 2016, 12:23 PM
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if OSU didn't make it because the butthurt from their fans would be a lot like the crying fetal positioned Hillary supporters on election night. And who wouldn't want to see that? But when I look at who I truly believe are the top 4 teams in college football, I rank it as Bama, Clemson, OSU and Washington...in that order.
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CU Medallion [60215]
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Penn St just wore out a team that Ohio St edged by 1
Nov 29, 2016, 3:44 PM
[ in reply to You can't just say right now, you have to look at the ] |
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the week before (Mich State). 17-16 vs. 45-12. I'd say Penn State has an argument.
It's "best" vs "most deserving".
if you take "best" literally, it would be the best 4 teams RIGHT NOW, not in Sept. The 4 teams you would NOT want to play this coming Saturday. Who would those 4 be?
Bama
Clemson
Who else is crushing people right now? Is anybody afraid of how Ohio State or Michigan is playing right now? They both limped across the finish line.
like it or not, So Cal (USC) would be on the short list of "best teams" at this moment.
That's why "most deserving" is the way to go - the entire season (with Championships) counts.
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1st Rounder [617]
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Re: Penn St just wore out a team that Ohio St edged by 1
Nov 29, 2016, 5:21 PM
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That OSU-MSU was a road game for the Bucks and the weather was god-awful. Having said that, D'Antonio seems to have Urban figured out.
PSU got MSU at home and were actually losing at the half.
The problem with "right now" is that it's a convenient timeframe with no definition. Is right now who looked best in practice today? The last game only? The last month? It's cherry picking. It's like saying listening to an SC fan saying the ##### are better than Clemson because they've won 5 of the last 8.
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110%er [6136]
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All-In [30788]
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No i dont. Can you imagine if the greenbay
Nov 29, 2016, 12:20 PM
[ in reply to Do you think OSU is one of the top 4 teams ] |
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Packers won their division but didn't get into the playoffs because a group of people thought the 4th place Eagles were a better team?
Southern cal and penn state are probably the hottest teams...right now. At this point. A month ago it was louisville.
Who what were is better, tougher...who cares?
The flaw in the history of the nc has been in using polls, popular opinion , people and computer POLLS. We want the 4 best teams is flawed reasoning. Alabama is the only team that didn't struggle at times. Every other team, including osu has been up and down. Who is to say they are top 4? Bunch of polls that change week to week? Right now I'd say there is bama and then probably 6-8 other teams that are equal.
Eliminate all that nonsense... Send conference champs. Every team, good, bad, or in between has a chance to win their conference. You slip up, oh well. No more whining about sos. Or polls.. or eye test. Conference bias..yadda yadda yada
you win conference. .you're in.
The regular season determines the conference champ....the playoff determines which conference champ is the national champion.
Playoff committee should only need to pick where the teams play and at most 1 at large to give nd and the w michigans of the world a shot.
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Orange Blooded [2877]
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Re: No i dont. Can you imagine if the greenbay
Nov 29, 2016, 12:26 PM
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I don't buy that because too many good teams have injuries, bad officiating, all kinds of problems that would lead to a terrible playoff game. I mean does anyone want to see Colorado possibly play Oklahoma. Talk about a snooze fest
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All-In [30788]
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That's all just football
Nov 29, 2016, 12:48 PM
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Bad luck..bad timing.
I would watch Colorado play Oklahoma just as soon as I would watch bam a play osu.
Once clemson is out, it is all the same to me.
More important.....
Alll whining would stop. You don't see this kinda belly aching in true playoff systems because true playoff systems don't rely on people.
Your qb missed the biggest game and you lost....well that's a tough break. Everyone simply understands and moves on. The rules are established far in advance.
You're proposing that the nfl, nba, and all these other leagues should move to committee playoff systems to make them more entertaining. That may be true, but I think it would be a tragedy.
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Orange Blooded [2877]
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Re: That's all just football
Nov 29, 2016, 12:55 PM
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It's sports, where would the fun and involvement be for not this belly aching and arguing.
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All-In [30788]
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I can't argue with that
Nov 29, 2016, 1:54 PM
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I got nothing. If that is what fans want then this is certainly the playoff format they want.
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1st Rounder [617]
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Re: No i dont. Can you imagine if the greenbay
Nov 29, 2016, 12:30 PM
[ in reply to No i dont. Can you imagine if the greenbay ] |
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The problem with this is:
1. No one would schedule strong OOC games anymore. If that's not a factor, no reason to risk a loss there. We will have 3 boring preseason games every year.
2. The conference schedules are unbalanced. Michigan lost one division game, Ohio State lost one division game, Penn State lost one division game, all to each other. Michigan lost out because they lost to a crossover school that OSU didn't get to play. PSU avoided Wisconsin that both UM and OSU had to play.
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All-In [30788]
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Re: No i dont. Can you imagine if the greenbay
Nov 29, 2016, 12:57 PM
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1. Yes and no. The conferences could enact rules to keep that from hapening. But, even if they didn't and everyone scheduled cupcakes I would be ok with it....because it is fair. Every conference and team could do it.
I agree Fans would miss out on good games but that would be a small sacrafice to get a true playoff.
2. It is up to the conference to decide the best way to get their best team in the playoff. Not the playoff committee. The big decided to make wis or psu their champ.
I personally don't mind the division format. I also wouldn't mind if at the end of the season they simply chose the best 2 schools.
I am a big fan of conf. champ games because they essentially become the 1st rd of the playoffs.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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I get what you're saying, but your logic is flawed under a
Nov 29, 2016, 12:32 PM
[ in reply to No i dont. Can you imagine if the greenbay ] |
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4-team playoff. Let's say Clemson lost to Louisville by 1 but beat Pitt and all else stays the same. Clemson would still be sitting with one loss and Louisville would have 2 losses to Houston and Kentucky. They'd be playing for a conference championship against 3-loss VT who lost to GT and Cuse, 2 teams we destroyed and Tennessee who is obviously garbage. Would either of those teams be a better team than Clemson even though we technically had our shot to beat Louisville?
The Green Bay Packers metaphor is not a good one because there are so many teams in college football compared to only 32 in the NFL. And each conference team plays the other conference teams twice, home and away.
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1st Rounder [617]
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Re: I get what you're saying, but your logic is flawed under a
Nov 29, 2016, 12:55 PM
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Exactly. And let's take it to the extreme. Ohio State schedules Alabama, Clemson, and Washington as its OOC opponents and beats all 3 of them. Penn State schedules Arkansas Pine Bluff, Delaware St. and South Carolina and somehow manages to lose all 3 (the first 2 would be understandable).
Ohio State wins every Big 10 game but loses to Penn State. Penn State wins all of its Big 10 games but loses to Illinois.
Four really unforgivable losses, but they get to play in the Big 10 game and possibly for a national title. All the while OSU gets #### all for their season?
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CU Guru [1555]
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Nah, the Big 12 gets a team in, then.***
Nov 29, 2016, 1:39 PM
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All-In [30788]
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I got no problem with luisville
May 29, 2022, 4:18 PM
[ in reply to I get what you're saying, but your logic is flawed under a ] |
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Going to the champ game in that scenario and if they won going to the playoff.
The acc decided that either luisville or VT would represent the acc in the playoffs and 1 loss clemson would have to learn how to pound sand.
It would be up to Clemson and the acc to come up with a better format for choosing their rep.
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: No i dont. Can you imagine if the greenbay
Nov 29, 2016, 12:45 PM
[ in reply to No i dont. Can you imagine if the greenbay ] |
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So you're saying that strength of schedule shouldn't matter? Just schedule horrible non conference games? Or heck, schedule 4 top five teams in the non conference because if you lose them, it doesn't matter because if you win your conference you're in the playoff. You can go 0-4 in September, just make it an exhibition season? That makes no sense.
You can't just have conference champs automatically make a four team playoff. You have to weigh strength of schedule, have the eye test, and have some objectivity. If you take that away you're basically saying the regular season doesn't matter, as long as you win a few key games. You can lose 5 games, but as long as you win your conference, you're in.
I think in 2012, Wisconsin lost 5 games but won the big 10 and got spanked in the rose bowl. In no world should that team play for a national championship.
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All-In [30788]
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The prob. With sos is that it is not too different
Nov 29, 2016, 2:09 PM
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From polls.. biased and subjective.
But to answer your question, no... I don't care about sos. Or october, or december.
Conference champs are in ..every1 else.
Out.. Makes perfect sense. Couldn't be more clear.
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Orange Blooded [2928]
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Re: No i dont. Can you imagine if the greenbay
Nov 29, 2016, 12:53 PM
[ in reply to No i dont. Can you imagine if the greenbay ] |
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I agree with this 100%. I want to see:
1) Big12 add teams and championship game
2) Playoff expand to 6-8 teams (5 conference champs, and 1-3 At-large)
3) If 6, Top two teams according to committee get 1st round playoff byes. If 8, top 4 teams get home field for first round of playoff
4) First round of playoff occurs 1 week after championship weekend, Second and third rounds would carry on as the playoff currently is played.
5) If 6-team playoff, put a disclaimer on the conference champ. Say they have to be in the top 16 or 20 or something so that you don't have a 1 hit wonder 4-5 loss champ in the playoff. This would then open up that spot to a 2nd at-large team.
Honestly, I would prefer a 4-team playoff, because it puts so much more emphasis on the regular season. That is one of my favorite things about college football, but as we currently stand with 5 conferences, it's too subjective. It's only a matter of time before we have 5 comparable 1-loss conference champs and someone gets left out.
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CU Guru [1555]
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I tend to agree with that line of thinking however, one way
Nov 29, 2016, 12:04 PM
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to look at it might be this:
Clemson and tOSU are one loss teams. Our one loss came to a team that could not win their division, their loss came to a more formidable opponent in PSU. So by virtue of our loss coming to Pitt and not Louisville, we get to play for our conference championship. Whereas if tOSU had lost to say Michigan State but beat PSU, they also would have played for their championship.
I know it is basically playing the "better loss" card, but I'm trying to say that we made our championship game by allowing our slip up against a weaker opponent than them.
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CU Guru [1207]
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Re: I tend to agree with that line of thinking however, one way
Nov 29, 2016, 12:15 PM
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Pitt beat Penn State.
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Orange Blooded [2877]
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Re: If osu makes it in the playoff over a, the committee
Nov 29, 2016, 12:18 PM
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They kinda don't mean anything do they; isn't that the point of the committee? Otherwise why not just make the playoff between conference champions every year as a rule?
If penn state or Wisconsin get it; they will get destroyed in the end.
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Legend [17773]
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Re: If osu makes it in the playoff over a, the committee
Nov 29, 2016, 12:51 PM
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Not a bad idea. SEC started the mess. Go back to smaller/regional conferences with a max of 9 or 10 teams and play a round robin. Do away with championship games and expand the playoffs.
Can't do it though because of the TV contracts though
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1st Rounder [617]
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Re: If osu makes it in the playoff over a, the committee
Nov 29, 2016, 1:01 PM
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Totally agree... it's always about money. Don't ever think it's not.
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110%er [7169]
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Seems a bit messier than it needs to be imo.
Nov 29, 2016, 1:41 PM
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This year proves, or at least is setting up to prove why the conference championship game is no longer valid. Alabama can basically sit all starters Saturday as they are in the playoffs win or lose. No doubt about it. Oh St will be in the final 4 although they are not being subjugated to that extra championship game.
A way to help with this would be to have super conferences,where there isn't any East/West,Atlantic/Coastal,etc.Play your games and at the end the winner of the most games in your conference is the champ. You know the same way Oklahoma is trying to make themselves relevant in the playoff argument.Now every conference,no matter how many teams would be set up that way.Fair is fair right?
Personally I would like to see 6 teams playoffs. The 5 big conference CHAMPS and 1 at large team (Wild Card). None of this 8 or 16 team playoffs because this is Football and it's ridiculous to have 16 teams and I just don't understand the desire for 8 teams.If you're not good enought to be ranked in the top 6 you don't deserve a shot at the National Championship! But 6 makes sense especially THIS YEAR!
GO TIGERS!!!
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Varsity [231]
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the purpose of the conference championship
Nov 29, 2016, 3:31 PM
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is to determine a conference champion (and make some money). That is all. Penn St winning Big10 championship means they are Big 10 champ. Determining a national champ is a separate thing. For one, conference championship completely ignores nonconference games (1/3 or 1/4 of the schedule). National championship playoff does not ignore this. I have a much longer rant on this in my head, but I'll wait and see if Penn St actually wins before bothering.
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Orange Blooded [2877]
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Re: If osu makes it in the playoff over a, the committee
Nov 29, 2016, 8:57 PM
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I'm pretty sure Kirby again just confirmed conference champs means jack...
Just sayin
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