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Legend [16320]
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Last thread for me today, sorry if German
Jan 3, 2018, 9:27 AM
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First time on the board since the game, and every reference I heard to Clemson on the radio yesterday while driving home was basically as a foot note. For long stretches of time you might have thought Bama had played an intrasquad game.
My question is, how huge was the early drop by Cain in terms of momentum and team confidence? Not intended as a bashing post, as Cain later made some big plays that were equally as good as this one was bad. But from my perspective, that play could have had a big impact on the remainder of the game. It would have been a first down at least, potentially much more, and very easily could have led to points. As I recall, we did not have a single first down in the first quarter.
On a side note, does Cain come back, and should he? Put me down for “I hope so” and “he needs to”?
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1st Rounder [618]
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Re: Last thread for me today, sorry if German
Jan 3, 2018, 9:33 AM
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I honestly think this was the play of the game. That drop resulted in a 3rd straight 3 and out, the defense had to get right back on the field, bama had great field position and then scored their only offensive touchdown of the game. A first down + some yards would have gone a long way in helping us offensively and with field position.
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CU Guru [1838]
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They had 2 Pass TDs
Jan 3, 2018, 12:20 PM
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One to the DL that had the pick & one to Ridley. But your point is valid nevertheless.
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Hall of Famer [23095]
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After the game,before the NCG,
Jan 3, 2018, 9:36 AM
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it's all about the 2 teams in the game.
Cain ? Does he get passed by by Overton,Higgins and maybe even Kendrick if he returns ?
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CU Medallion [51250]
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Really good point
Jan 3, 2018, 9:40 AM
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had posted before I saw this. Being the 3rd or maybe 4th in receiving rotation does nothing for his stock.
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CU Medallion [51250]
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I'm with you on Cain
Jan 3, 2018, 9:36 AM
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coming back. He needs the kind of year he is easily capable of to improve his draft stock ie, Mike Williams 17M signing bonus. His drop was big, but in my opinion the fumble recovery deep in Bammer land at the start of the 2nd and not moving in for a TD was a backbreaker. JMHO
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Legend [16320]
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Agree. That was demoralizing.***
Jan 3, 2018, 9:42 AM
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110%er [7088]
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Agreed. First half was not good...
Jan 3, 2018, 3:42 PM
[ in reply to I'm with you on Cain ] |
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but we were still in it. After the failure to capitalize on the gift at the beginning of the second half, it was pretty clear our offense just wasn’t ready to play. OL played on roller skates all night and Bryant looked timid. He’s fragile sometimes. Seems like he’s easily rattled and lacks some confidence... the confidence needed to come back and beat a good team. QB competition needs to be WIDE OPEN in the spring.
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Heisman Winner [108388]
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It was a disheartening drop for fans, but good teams...
Jan 3, 2018, 9:38 AM
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good players, put that stuff behind them and it appears Cain did.
The 50/50 ball he didn't come down with was another big play. He's a great WR, he had some drops this year for sure, but will only get better. This was just his 3rd year at the position and I don't believe he's built or physically/mentally "ready" to man the 9 full-time, certainly not in the mold of MW, so I don't expect him to see that spot in the pros, which may go into his decision.
He showed up this year at 6'1" 190, probably more suited for the 2/5 at this and the next level. He was a great change up behind MW as they used him more to take the top off or in the screen game. This year they tried to get him to become more of the 50/50 jump ball guy as well and he spent too much time "hand fencing", not enough time using his body to create the separation and then high pointing. MW's basketball skills were mad on the football field as I expect the taller Tee and DO to refine those and bring them to the field as well.
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All-Pro [682]
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Re: It was a disheartening drop for fans, but good teams...
Jan 3, 2018, 9:50 AM
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Deion was a decent receiver not great.He dropped more catchable balls than he should have .No where close to MW ability’s
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Heisman Winner [108388]
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He is great and he's not MW, not remotely including...
Jan 3, 2018, 9:56 AM
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giving up 3-4 inches and 30+ pounds; those trying to compare the 2, other than the position they manned, are off target.
MW showed up at Clemson as a WR, DC showed up to Clemson as a QB committed to play WR. His only WR experience was some 7 on 7 work.
He's learning, still settling and all the while playing in a spot that's the most difficult WR position to play on Clemson's team.
The kid is loaded with talent/promise, put him at the 2 or the 5 and he's immediately different, but the experience at 9 was needed. It's not just about catching the ball either.
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Heisman Winner [131737]
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Oculus Spirit [82752]
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Yea, played last year at 210 lbs. I was
Jan 3, 2018, 10:10 AM
[ in reply to It was a disheartening drop for fans, but good teams... ] |
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concerned in August when I first read he had reported at 190. He stated it increased his speed but it had to hurt his strength for going up for 50/50 balls.
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Hall of Famer [22348]
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I noticed that too. For a guy who wanted to go pro after
Jan 3, 2018, 10:15 AM
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the year, that seemed like a step in the wrong direction.
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Heisman Winner [108388]
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? It seemed a step in the wrong direction for the 9...
Jan 3, 2018, 10:23 AM
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it's probably a good step toward speed and a career at the next level.
It seemed a soft 210ish, so he's now at a point he can add good weight.
The avg WR in the NFL is ~6', 200 or so some numbers I've seen suggest? He won't play the 9 in a Clemson-centric offense.
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Hall of Famer [22348]
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Returning to your high school weight when you want to
Jan 3, 2018, 10:31 AM
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get to the pros seems like a step in the wrong direction. One would think putting on good muscle from the time you arrive on campus as an 18 year old would be a good thing. He wasn't overweight when he arrived, so it's not like he needed to trade bad weight for good.
Getting a tad faster is nice, though I didn't notice a speed improvement, but losing 20 pounds of muscle mass seems ill advised at best. It didn't pay off in production.
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Heisman Winner [108388]
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Hall of Famer [22348]
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Coach Scott let his wideout put on 20 pounds of fat?
Jan 3, 2018, 10:45 AM
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Cain was up to 197 in 2015. He played last year at 210. This past year he played at 192.
Returning to your 18 year old playing weight in your third year is not something most NFL bound players should be shooting for. Especially with the resources available to him from a strength and nutrition standpoint over the last 3 years.
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Heisman Winner [108388]
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Haha, there's a big difference between being soft and losing
Jan 3, 2018, 10:52 AM
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20 pounds of muscle mass. No where did I say it was all fat.
You can read, clearly the coaching staff and everyone was on board in this process, that includes the nutritionist and S & C.
This was planned, there is very little these kids do, relating to their position or on the football field, that is outside of the staff's doing or they find themselves as did Josh Watson, in the dog house. I use Josh because he's one of those Coach Brooks talked about "taking advice outside the program".
Deon's conditioning, speed and physical presence was targeted and is a positive step toward his future at the next level and his ability to play more so, than simply coming off the bench.
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Trainer [31]
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Re: Last thread for me today, sorry if German
Jan 3, 2018, 10:10 AM
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It was massive. And yes he caught a few passes but they didn’t affect momentum or KB’s confident positively nearly as much as that drop did negatively. He’s not a dependable player and I’ll honestly be VERY disappointed if he comes back. Give Tee room to shine
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Hall of Famer [22348]
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Cain gets too much blame for our small group of receivers
Jan 3, 2018, 10:15 AM
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this year. Hunter missed a couple too. The last few years we've had guys that were open even if they were covered. Look at Mike Williams and Jordan Leggett on the last drive last year for the championship. Look at the talented secondary for Ohio State last year. I thought they were the best secondary we played last year, but we consistently found ways to complete passes(and their offense died).
This year, our three starters were 184, 183, and 190 and our tight end wasn't the play maker we had the last three years. We were a better team when Tee Higgins emerged over the last few games. Tee Higgins injury in practice earlier in the week was bigger than the Cain drop.
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All-TigerNet [10526]
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Re: Cain gets too much blame for our small group of receivers
Jan 3, 2018, 11:47 AM
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I think you are right, but Tee has to work to be consistent. Showing up every other game will not work. I'm not bashing Tee, as I like everything about him, but consistency is something every young receiver has to learn. I remember what Mike Williams was like his freshman year .... made some great catches and plays and then for the next game or two you didn't even remember him playing. I think we do a great job of developing receivers, but they have to put in the work.
Cain really needs to come back next year and show improvement if he wants to play at the next level. I'm not sure at this point if he has impressed any professional scouts.
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Oculus Spirit [93152]
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It's football not chess.***
Jan 3, 2018, 11:21 AM
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Orange Blooded [2650]
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I really didn't think the drop made much of a difference
Jan 3, 2018, 11:37 AM
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Cain made some nice contested catches after that, and I thought Clemson was playing well until the interceptions. I feel like the drop might have even focused Cain and the team a little bit. I definitely didn't think it was a game-changer - we were driving with a chance to take the lead in the 3rd quarter after all.
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Trainer [31]
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Re: I really didn't think the drop made much of a difference
Jan 3, 2018, 12:08 PM
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It was most certainly a game changer. We’re an offense that typically needs to start well. And that killed that drive when we needed it. That one play didn’t lose us the game. Plenty of other plays to choose from to answer that question, but it was a huge drop and killed our spirit. It was clear we weren’t gonna be able to run it and we needed plays downfield early to keep the LBs honest. Instead we had KB stepping up into pressure the rest of the game
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Oculus Spirit [82752]
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