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YOUR BALANCE
I hate basketball season
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I hate basketball season


Feb 1, 2020, 10:16 PM

After every loss, the Brownell haters dismiss any success we've had and call for Brad's head.

And after every win, its Judge Keller in here acting like we should all kiss his feet for backing up Brownell.

Both sides make basketball season uncomfortable every year.

All I know is that I like watching this team play more than any Clemson team in recent memory. We aren't a top of the ACC team or program. Sometimes we'll beat teams we shouldn't and sometimes we'll lose to teams we shouldn't. Welcome to ACC basketball, where it is hard to win games.

Brownell has us recruiting at the highest level we've ever recruited at, playing fun basketball, and winning some big games. If we get an up-and-comer, they'll hop to the next best gig after any success. If we got rid of him, the best we could hope for is to sell our souls for someone like Bruce Pearl. Who is doing God knows what to win games in a much easier conference.

I'm cheering for this team no matter who the head coach is. If D.Rad and the powers that be decide it's time to make a change, then I'll trust them.

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Snowflake Basher........Out


Solid post.


Feb 1, 2020, 11:10 PM

I agree with all of your points.

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John Wooden could have coached us last night..


Feb 2, 2020, 8:22 AM

and we still would have lost to weak florist. We are way to inconsistent on offense.

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How do you keep Gamecocks out of your yard?
• Put up goal posts
What does a Gamecock grad call a Clemson Tiger grad in 2 years?
• Boss


Re: John Wooden could have coached us last night..


Feb 2, 2020, 9:01 AM

We have never been much to look at when it comes to basketball.

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Re: John Wooden could have coached us last night..


Feb 2, 2020, 12:05 PM [ in reply to John Wooden could have coached us last night.. ]

Please do not ever mention John Wooden (the wizard of westwood) and CLEMSON BBall in the same sentence. That is blasphemy in its purist form.

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Press Maravich to Bobby Roberts ... to Tate’s Locke


Feb 2, 2020, 10:42 AM

That’s how I recall the first time the Clemson establishment got impatient with mediocrity and actually decided to make a move to force Clemson basketball to rise to the level of the ACC elite.

Tates “recruited” Skip Wise, Stan Rome, Tree Rollins, Colon Abraham!! He built a winner.

Then three long years of NCAA probation.

Since then we’ve hired Bill Foster, Cliff Ellis, Rick Barnes, Larry Shyatt, Oliver Purnell.

We fired Foster, Ellis, and Shyatt and of course Barnes and Purnell, well they fired us.

Right now, we have a guy in Brownell who has given Clemson just enough that Clemson hasn’t quite wanted to fire him and of course, he also hasn’t walked out on Clemson.

Still, we seem eager to find the next Tate’s Locke.

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Agree. NCAA Basketball is all about paying players


Feb 2, 2020, 11:15 AM

The only way to get to the top quickly if you aren’t a blue blood is to shell out boatloads of cash. Auburn, LSU, Texas... they can tell you all about it.

I can’t support going in that direction because it puts a big black mark on our whole athletic department. I’m good with how Brownell has gone about his business and I think we are on the upswing. If Brownell starts to have more success here, he will certainly be more loyal due to the time he’s put in here.

I’m happy that we are now competing against the top programs in the ACC. Prospects will recognize that we absolutely can beat the UNC’s and Duke’s of the world.

This team losing to Wake is absolutely not as bad as our defending runner-up 2016 football team losing to Pittsburgh, yet nobody called for Dabo’s head then. People seem to think that winning in football and winning in basketball are similar. That’s simply not the case. Any team can have an off or on night in basketball and lose to a team that is in rhythm. It happens every single week to much better teams than ours.

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Snowflake Basher........Out


Re: Agree. NCAA Basketball is all about paying players


Feb 2, 2020, 1:38 PM

College basketball is in trouble from all the money tied to recruiting the last several years. It will suffer for awhile. Honest programs do not have a chance.

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Re: Press Maravich to Bobby Roberts ... to Tate’s Locke


Feb 2, 2020, 12:09 PM [ in reply to Press Maravich to Bobby Roberts ... to Tate’s Locke ]

I would come to the games and pay to watch another Skip Wise. He could literally travel with the ball, and looked so awesome doing it, that the refs could not even call the penalty. For those that missed the GOAT at CLEMSON, you have my sympathy.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 2, 2020, 10:57 AM

It says something about Clemson basketball, when we schedule the Spring game on Final Four weekend.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 2, 2020, 12:13 PM

So are you saying that ANY day during March Madness is available for us to schedule the Spring Game?

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 2, 2020, 12:29 PM

I still think that a very distant outside chance of making the Tournament, which is more than I expected coming into the year. Even in the unlikely event that happens, we would still have to make the second round to interfere with the game. Yeah, we are probably safe with about any Saturday.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 8:44 AM

If by “distant chance” you mean win the ACC tourney then sure. But mathematically we have almost 0 chance of making the tournament now (not what I would even call distant). We needed to go 7-3 in the back half of the conference schedule. We’ve started 0-2. We aren’t going 7-1 the rest of the way. Not sure even that would be enough now. I really don’t think Clemson fans pay enough attention to basketball to understand how truly wretched the ACC is this year. When I first projected 7-3 as a good shot at the NCAA most bracketologists were still projecting 5 ACC seeds. Now most are only projecting 3 ACC teams. Which would tie the lowest number of ACC teams and be the lowest percentage of teams since the tournament expanded to 64.

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Jstone D329 - “ It’s ok to want a coaching change”
Brownell @Clemson: 8 seasons ranked 50th or worse by Sports Reference’s SRS
1-29: Brad Brownell road record against ranked ACC opponents
142, 161, 294, 307, 293, 166, 225, 180, 260, 164, 141, 72, 68 - assist rankings amongst all D1 programs during Brownell's tenure


Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 2, 2020, 11:12 AM

Basketball season is barely a cup of ice water in the helll of football offseason.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 2, 2020, 12:10 PM

BBall season actually makes us anticipate bball season, which is pretty weird as I think about that.

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I would be okay with the "any success" scenario


Feb 2, 2020, 12:11 PM

associated with an up-and-comer before they got hired away somewhere else. Just saying.

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Re: I would be okay with the "any success" scenario


Feb 2, 2020, 12:16 PM

Not a BBall fan, so I don't know, but didn't Shaka Smart coach under CBB for awhile prior to leaving for a HC position and then he was successful? Maybe we had someone like that and simply had no clue how to evaluate some up-and-comer, so we let the wrong coach leave.

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Both Shaka Smart and Will Wade coached here


Feb 2, 2020, 3:06 PM

under Brad Brownell. Now they are very successful at Texas and LSU, respectively. However, the off-court dealings of Will Wade are widely known and I'm not sure it would be worth the eventual NCAA investigations to bring either back.

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Snowflake Basher........Out


Re: Both Shaka Smart and Will Wade coached here


Feb 2, 2020, 3:20 PM

Pretty sure Wade and Smart left before Brownell arrived.

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Re: Both Shaka Smart and Will Wade coached here


Feb 6, 2020, 8:09 AM [ in reply to Both Shaka Smart and Will Wade coached here ]

gtriple® said:

under Brad Brownell. Now they are very successful at Texas and LSU, respectively. However, the off-court dealings of Will Wade are widely known and I'm not sure it would be worth the eventual NCAA investigations to bring either back.




The jury is still out on Shaka Smart as a head coach.

It's funny. Everyone wanted Will Wade or Shaka Smart. Will Wade has all sorts of issues off the court, and Shaka Smart is struggling big time at a perennial power in Texas.

From 1990 - 2014 (the year before Shaka got to Texas), The longhorns only missed the NCAA tourney 3 times.

Shaka has missed the tourney 2 out of 4 years and is probably going to miss the tourney this year. He has also had a losing record in conference 3 out of 4 years and is currently sitting at 2-4 this year.

Shaka sure might be available after this season if you all want him!

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Bottom line, Dabo has us spoiled***


Feb 2, 2020, 3:13 PM



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Another loss, another call for Brad's head.***


Feb 6, 2020, 7:40 AM



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Snowflake Basher........Out


Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 7:43 AM

We will finish under .500 for the season and I cant say its exciting watching us play. That said, I dont get bummed watching us play. My expectations are for next season.

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I don’t know - gtriple ... that is way too ...


Feb 6, 2020, 7:46 AM

... level-headed !! -<img border=">

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If people were as good as their obituary - and products were as good as advertised - this would truly be a wonderful world !!


Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 7:58 AM

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Except for the Judge Keller part. He is always very positive, but he doesn't seem condescending. When we win he makes posts talking about what a great game it was, but his other posts are only defending Brownell from the delusional haters.

I just don't understand the hate on here when we lose a hard fought game on the road to a team that is clearly better and favored in the game. People act like we should be winning every game.

Like, if you didn't go into yesterday's game knowing that it was going to be a low scoring ugly game, you either just don't watch Clemson Basketball, or you are a complete moron.

This basketball season has been fantastic. The results haven't been great, but this team is fun to watch and never gives up on any games. I very much look forward to every game that we have.

I said this before the season and it's materializing. I knew this season was going to be a struggle, but I wanted to see significant improvement with our young players. Well we are night and day difference from the beginning of the year. It's setting us up for a run next year.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 8:29 AM

I mostly agree with you. The only problem I had with last night (and most other b-ball games) is it seems Brad schemes to get Tevin Mack 3 point shots. Which makes no sense because Mack is over 60% inside the arc, and is an abysmal 3 point shooter(like the rest of the team). Other than that I think Brad does the best he can with what he has. I’m thinking about calling in to Tiger Calls on Monday and asking why he does this.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 12:03 PM


I mostly agree with you. The only problem I had with last night (and most other b-ball games) is it seems Brad schemes to get Tevin Mack 3 point shots. Which makes no sense because Mack is over 60% inside the arc, and is an abysmal 3 point shooter(like the rest of the team). Other than that I think Brad does the best he can with what he has. I’m thinking about calling in to Tiger Calls on Monday and asking why he does this.

this was about matchup.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 8:29 AM [ in reply to Re: I hate basketball season ]

I mostly agree with you. The only problem I had with last night (and most other b-ball games) is it seems Brad schemes to get Tevin Mack 3 point shots. Which makes no sense because Mack is over 60% inside the arc, and is an abysmal 3 point shooter(like the rest of the team). Other than that I think Brad does the best he can with what he has. I’m thinking about calling in to Tiger Calls on Monday and asking why he does this.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 8:01 AM

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gtriple®
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I hate basketball season [6]
Posted: Feb 1, 2020 10:16 PM
Reply

After every loss, the Brownell haters dismiss any success we've had and call for Brad's head.

And after every win, its Judge Keller in here acting like we should all kiss his feet for backing up Brownell.

Both sides make basketball season uncomfortable every year.

All I know is that I like watching this team play more than any Clemson team in recent memory. We aren't a top of the ACC team or program. Sometimes we'll beat teams we shouldn't and sometimes we'll lose to teams we shouldn't. Welcome to ACC basketball, where it is hard to win games.

Brownell has us recruiting at the highest level we've ever recruited at, playing fun basketball, and winning some big games. If we get an up-and-comer, they'll hop to the next best gig after any success. If we got rid of him, the best we could hope for is to sell our souls for someone like Bruce Pearl. Who is doing God knows what to win games in a much easier conference.

I'm cheering for this team no matter who the head coach is. If D.Rad and the powers that be decide it's time to make a change, then I'll trust them.


outstanding post. this team is around a .500 team. always was. now having baehre, hunter and hemenway and trapp healthy all year would have added to that total. they play very hard but with our lineup we have to hit 3's to open up the inside. next year with all those guys healthy and the addition of hall, the guy from canada and hall expectations should be very high. next year is ncaa or bust. no ncaa and i will lead the cry for coach to leave

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 8:04 AM

oh and i forgot nick honor. he would have been a very big help this year.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 8:04 AM

“Brownell has us recruiting at the highest level we've ever recruited at”

Not sure where you get this from. Oliver Purnell signed THREE classes that were ranked higher than Brownell’s 2020 group including the 15th ranked class in the nation in 2009.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 8:05 AM

DannyByGodFord

Posts: 188
Registered: 12/14/19
Re: I hate basketball season
Posted: Feb 6, 2020 8:04 AM

“Brownell has us recruiting at the highest level we've ever recruited at”

Not sure where you get this from. Oliver Purnell signed THREE classes that were ranked higher than Brownell’s 2020 group including the 15th ranked class in the nation in 2009.


lol dude you and op need to get a room and snuggle up.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 8:35 AM

I’m just stating a fact. It’s a lie to say we are recruiting better than ever.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 8:46 AM

And how did Brownell do with 3 years to coach that #15 class. A decade later should we maybe reevaluate whether those guys were busts or whether Brownell can’t develop players?

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Jstone D329 - “ It’s ok to want a coaching change”
Brownell @Clemson: 8 seasons ranked 50th or worse by Sports Reference’s SRS
1-29: Brad Brownell road record against ranked ACC opponents
142, 161, 294, 307, 293, 166, 225, 180, 260, 164, 141, 72, 68 - assist rankings amongst all D1 programs during Brownell's tenure


Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 8:52 AM

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viztiz®
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Re: I hate basketball season
Posted: Feb 6, 2020 8:46 AM
Reply

And how did Brownell do with 3 years to coach that #15 class. A decade later should we maybe reevaluate whether those guys were busts or whether Brownell can’t develop players?


CALM DOWN VIZCOOT. BASEBALL WILL BE HERE SOON.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 9:15 AM [ in reply to Re: I hate basketball season ]

viztiz® said:

And how did Brownell do with 3 years to coach that #15 class. A decade later should we maybe reevaluate whether those guys were busts or whether Brownell can’t develop players?




Viztiz is still trying to figure out google to find an article that cited Baehre being a potential NBA player.

Are you really talking about the top 15 class that included Devin Booker, Milton Jennings, Noel Johnson, and Donte Hill?

Surely one of those studs at least made the NBA Development league right? Or are you saying that at least one of those players would have made the NBA if it wasn't for Brownell ruining their career?

I would take Brownell's first class of TJ Sapp, KJ McDaniels, Rod Hall, Bernard Sullivan, and Devin Coleman. At least there was one player that was better than average in that class.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 9:30 AM

I posted the actual google results. And, again, the one page you found was a quote from a Clemson coach. I wonder who coached Booker, Jennings, Johnson, and Hill? A decade in how many active players does Brownell have in the NBA? Maybe, just maybe, you should look at the guy making millions before throwing kids under the bus.

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Jstone D329 - “ It’s ok to want a coaching change”
Brownell @Clemson: 8 seasons ranked 50th or worse by Sports Reference’s SRS
1-29: Brad Brownell road record against ranked ACC opponents
142, 161, 294, 307, 293, 166, 225, 180, 260, 164, 141, 72, 68 - assist rankings amongst all D1 programs during Brownell's tenure


Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 9:39 AM

Well Brownell coached Noel Johnson and Donte Hill only for a season before they transferred.

This just goes to show you have no clue what you are talking about.

Throwing them under the bus? So you are saying if I want to talk about them, I have to lie? Devin Booker and Milton Jennings were both very average players for us. They were average in general. Not because Brownell is a bad coach.

2 players under Brownell have made NBA rosters. Grantham and McDaniels.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 11:43 AM

So an inability to develop OR keep players isn't Brownell's fault either?

Devin Booker and Milton Jennings can only be judged as "average" in hindsight. Who coached them? Oh yeah, not his fault. Nothing is.

re NBA: so the answer is zero. Zero active players in the NBA after a decade at an ACC program. Shyatt and Barnes put 1 player each in the NBA in half the time. Cliff Ellis put 3 times as many players in the same amount of time.

Perhaps you aren't aware of this: Clemson is the only school in the ACC without a single active player in the NBA. https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Atlantic-Coast-Conference/1/nba-players But that can't possibly be a reflection on our coach. Every single other school must just have better fans and facilities.

Brownell is mos def the best we can possibly hope to do.

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Jstone D329 - “ It’s ok to want a coaching change”
Brownell @Clemson: 8 seasons ranked 50th or worse by Sports Reference’s SRS
1-29: Brad Brownell road record against ranked ACC opponents
142, 161, 294, 307, 293, 166, 225, 180, 260, 164, 141, 72, 68 - assist rankings amongst all D1 programs during Brownell's tenure


Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 1:27 PM

viztiz® said:

So an inability to develop OR keep players isn't Brownell's fault either?

Devin Booker and Milton Jennings can only be judged as "average" in hindsight. Who coached them? Oh yeah, not his fault. Nothing is.

re NBA: so the answer is zero. Zero active players in the NBA after a decade at an ACC program. Shyatt and Barnes put 1 player each in the NBA in half the time. Cliff Ellis put 3 times as many players in the same amount of time.

Perhaps you aren't aware of this: Clemson is the only school in the ACC without a single active player in the NBA. https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Atlantic-Coast-Conference/1/nba-players
But that can't possibly be a reflection on our coach. Every single other school must just have better fans and facilities.

Brownell is mos def the best we can possibly hope to do.




So everything negative that happens to our program is Brownell's fault? Devin Booker and Milton Jennings were average basketball players. Devin Booker showed no emotion, and Milton Jennings couldn't shoot.

There are a lot more players that were developed under Brownell, then players that came in highly rated and ended up being busts.

Brownell's problem isn't coaching.. It's recruiting.

He doesn't have Dabo's flashy personality that everyone gravitates to. Up until 3 years ago, Clemson had the worst facilities, the worst administration support, and the worst tradition of any team in the ACC. Someone w/ Brad's personality isn't going to snag 5* recruits with that.

He needs a stable, consistent program to recruit to. He has slowly built that and now that he has facilities, recruiting has picked up. What don't you get about that?

Are you not slightly optimistic about next years team?

Did you not expect this year to be a down year?

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 5:25 PM

No, I’m not particularly excited about next year. I know that we’ll suck for the first half of the season. Claw our way back to the possibility of the NCAA. Then flush it away. It’s been the m.o. for 7 of 9 years. Now you say wait till next year for new recruits. Next year it will be they need a year in his system. Rinse and repeat. This has gone on more than long enough. We went to four straight NCAA tourneys with, according to you, the worst of everything in the ACC. Brownell didn’t just fail to uphold status quo - he frequently failed to make the NIT. 3 years into his improved facilities and recruiting he’s about to do it again.

To whatever extent we should have expected a down year this year, we should have expected more than a first round NIT exit last year. We have a large body of work to look at and it isn’t pretty.

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Jstone D329 - “ It’s ok to want a coaching change”
Brownell @Clemson: 8 seasons ranked 50th or worse by Sports Reference’s SRS
1-29: Brad Brownell road record against ranked ACC opponents
142, 161, 294, 307, 293, 166, 225, 180, 260, 164, 141, 72, 68 - assist rankings amongst all D1 programs during Brownell's tenure


Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 8:50 AM

gtriple® said:

After every loss, the Brownell haters dismiss any success we've had and call for Brad's head.

And after every win, its Judge Keller in here acting like we should all kiss his feet for backing up Brownell.

Both sides make basketball season uncomfortable every year.

All I know is that I like watching this team play more than any Clemson team in recent memory. We aren't a top of the ACC team or program. Sometimes we'll beat teams we shouldn't and sometimes we'll lose to teams we shouldn't. Welcome to ACC basketball, where it is hard to win games.

Brownell has us recruiting at the highest level we've ever recruited at, playing fun basketball, and winning some big games. If we get an up-and-comer, they'll hop to the next best gig after any success. If we got rid of him, the best we could hope for is to sell our souls for someone like Bruce Pearl. Who is doing God knows what to win games in a much easier conference.

I'm cheering for this team no matter who the head coach is. If D.Rad and the powers that be decide it's time to make a change, then I'll trust them.


I agree. I enjoyed my root canal more than watching them play last night. They keep my hopes up just enough to keep watching to the routine collapse and the games end. I should be used to this by now but I am not.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 8:55 AM

KIND OF FUNNY THAT THE UVA FANS LOVE THAT STYLE OF PLAY. THEY GOT NO PROBLEM WITH THEIR TEAM NOT SCORING 65 POINTS IN A GAME THIS YEAR. CERTAINLY NOTHING WRONG WITH WATCHING 2 TEAMS GET AFTER EACH OTHER. THE 2ND HALF WAS VERY ENTERTAINING. JUST MY OPINION.

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Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 11:44 AM

Because that style of play is really garnering similar returns at Clemson. Good point.

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Jstone D329 - “ It’s ok to want a coaching change”
Brownell @Clemson: 8 seasons ranked 50th or worse by Sports Reference’s SRS
1-29: Brad Brownell road record against ranked ACC opponents
142, 161, 294, 307, 293, 166, 225, 180, 260, 164, 141, 72, 68 - assist rankings amongst all D1 programs during Brownell's tenure


Re: I hate basketball season


Feb 6, 2020, 12:14 PM

Clearly, you are unaware that JK has no feet.

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Rinse and repeat***


Feb 9, 2020, 8:20 PM



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Snowflake Basher........Out


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