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All-In [43992]
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I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions.
Feb 13, 2018, 9:41 PM
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Clemson accepts roughly 65% in-state and 35% out of state students each year. This ratio has been present for decades, and has not changed. Yet all I hear is how Clemson has abandoned qualified in-state students.
Clemson not only still accepts roughly the same percentage of in-state students, but accepts MORE than it used to. In case you haven't been paying attention, Clemson has increased enrollment by several thousand students over the past decade.
The reality is that Clemson receives a record number of applications each year. More applications, from more highly qualified students, means that an acceptance letter from Clemson is going to be harder to get. This is a good thing for Clemson University.
Although Clemson is a public university, it is NOT obligated to accept students from South Carolina just because those students are smart, have good GPAs, have high test scores, or are Clemson legacies. While those attributes are desirable, there are likely many other students with that profile. When it comes down to it, an applicant with a 1300 SAT and 4.0 GPA whose parents went to Clemson is going to have a tough time getting in when competing against another Clemson legacy who has a 1400 SAT, 4.2 GPA, and parents who may or may not have attended Clemson.
Posts about how Clemson is "losing its way" or somehow not honoring its founding principles are ridiculous. If your child didn't get into Clemson, I'm truly sorry. I know it must be frustrating. But Clemson isn't for everyone. I'm confident if your son or daughter is truly intelligent and accomplished, and really wants a Clemson degree, he or she will make it happen even if a Clemson acceptance was not offered the first time around. As mentioned, the Bridge Program is frequently an option, and if not, then completing a year (or even a semester) at another school and transferring into Clemson is often an option.
I for one am proud of my Clemson degree, and hope that our fine university continues to attract the best and brightest, year after year.
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Scout Team [178]
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Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions.
Feb 13, 2018, 9:56 PM
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Agree 100%.
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CU Guru [1259]
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Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions.
Feb 14, 2018, 11:14 AM
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You are spot on agree 100%. The only difference in now and the past is the huge increase of applicants. With a large increase in applicants is going to result in a larger number of people not being accepted. Nothing has changed except the number of ppl applying for enrollment at Clemson. This has created what ppl view as clemson forgetting it's roots, when couldn't be more false. You can argue that the atheletic department has started to be all about the money and starting to forget about the iptay members that have been members for decades for newer more wealthy bandwagon donors since we went to the first title game in 15. I have noticed a big increase in the athletic department forgetting it's roots. I remember when they were raising money for the west endzone us donors that have been around for generations helped raise that money, and keep in mind this was during the Bowden days when we weren't winning titles and ACC 3 years in a row. Now they have seem to forget about us lifetime donors. Had the worst experience ever applying for bowl tickets this past year and I know A LOT of people that had the same problems. Only thing I'm disappointed in clemson about is how the athletic department has treated some long time donors for new bandwagon money! Just my honest thought I love clemson to death been to every home game since I was a baby and bleed orange and purple but feel the need to bring the issue up not that most will care ??. Go Tigers!!!
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All-American [598]
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Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions.
Feb 13, 2018, 10:50 PM
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Just an honest question. Have you ever read Clemson's Charter of why the school was established?
It is pretty clear that it was established for the kids in rural SC. I am all for the school expanding. My dad played baseball in the 40's when Walter Cox was not only his professor but also his baseball coach if I am remembering correctly.
I just simply believe that any, and I express, "any" SC student who is qualified should be allowed into Clemson above any out of state student or foreign student. So when you say that Clemson is NOT obligated to accept students from SC, you might want to read the schools charter.
To the best of my knowledge the Charter has never changed and it is still the basis of the University. Again, it might have changed, but I am pretty sure it hasn't.
I do believe there will be a legal battle one day over this issue. It won't affect me, because both of my kids have graduated from college. They didn't have to go through Bridge either so this is not about Bridge for me.
The bottom line is that it is about money. Foreign money and out of state tuition.
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110%er [5927]
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times change
Feb 13, 2018, 10:59 PM
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and I for one think it is great that the kids from the rural towns that do get in get to experience the other cultures from around the country/world. If Clemson ONLY accepted SC kids then that means that Clemson is not a top 20 university.....hate to tell you. also, the sports wouldn't be what they are now.
I don't think some of you people understand that Clemson is a NATIONWIDE BRAND now! kids from all over the country and world want to come to Clemson, and that's just awesome to me
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All-American [598]
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Re: times change
Feb 13, 2018, 11:04 PM
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I'm not talking about taking on SC kids. Just that SC kids should have priority.
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All-Pro [661]
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Re: times change
Feb 14, 2018, 12:46 AM
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They do have priority. The test scores from SC students is, on average, below that of out of state students.
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110%er [7459]
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They are virtually the same based on
Feb 14, 2018, 9:17 AM
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Info from the university on another post. ACT range is exactly the same - SAT is 10 points different I believe.
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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Head Coach [765]
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Re: Lol dude that was literally 2 centuries ago
Feb 14, 2018, 8:39 AM
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so was the constitution, declaration of independence and the bill of rights. Should we change those as well?
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110%er [7459]
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exactly- not sure what the charter says
Feb 14, 2018, 9:22 AM
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Or what if anything can be changed in it. Times change- doesn’t equate to legality. I remember the formation was largely based on TGCs Will. The land could be restricted to such covenants for eternity. You can’t just up and change things because some or even a majority think things should be different now.
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110%er [6692]
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You've heard of Amendments right? The Constitution has been
Feb 14, 2018, 9:22 AM
[ in reply to Re: Lol dude that was literally 2 centuries ago ] |
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changed since it was first drafted 230 years ago.
Also, you should probably look up laws from back then, you know, the women can't own land, men have to own property to vote, and that type of thing.
Really kills any argument you're trying to make.
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110%er [6320]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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The Constitution has been amended how many times now?
Feb 14, 2018, 9:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: Lol dude that was literally 2 centuries ago ] |
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It is a living, breathing document.
The first 10 Amendments are referred to as the Bill of Rights, so that's pretty much static.
And When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. Any people/persons can exercise a Declaration of Independence, it's more a Dear John letter such as the Articles of Secession.
And really, not all men[womens not even a consideration] were Created Equal in those days, so its vision, scope and inclusivity has been amended where some that had been marginalized have now been wrapped in its swaddlings.
I'm on your side though, as change is not always for the betterment of mankind. New Coke & the Cadillac Cimmaron immediately come to mind.
Anyway, a lot of passion around a place many, many people love and with love, there's usually pain that oft times accompanies it in equal severity.
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110%er [6692]
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Another item to think about with the original charter,
Feb 14, 2018, 9:36 AM
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is that when Clemson opened wasn't it an all-white, all-male school? Think that's changed for sure since the late 1800's.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Yes, the world has changed, but that does not mean...
Feb 14, 2018, 9:43 AM
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every change is good, or OK or for the betterment or that everything else has to change with it or because of it.
I know you understand.
Take each as their own thing and each of their own degree.
Anyway, I don't usually get involved in this as I love the human race, but I hate people[not you] and merely wanted to remind our friend above that those things he said haven't change, in fact have in ways where possible and perhaps for the betterment.
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110%er [6692]
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Absolutely, there are certainly good and bad changes, and
Feb 14, 2018, 10:28 AM
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for the most part when a change is enacted we do not know if it will be for better or for worse.
I was simply pointing out that some people are doing the age ole trick of using certain items of a document as ammo for their points while leaving out the items that do not help them in said debate.
I agree with you that the human race is an amazing species, but people, not so much.
Hope you're doing well today, dsp.
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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110%er [6692]
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Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions.
Feb 14, 2018, 10:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions. ] |
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I google searched for Clemson's charter, but found nothing. I did find T.G. Clemson's will, however, and in 1883 of course he was making a school for rural South Carolinian's, how many do you think were gonna travel out of state in those times?
It was also created as an agriculture & mechanical school, military, and was originally and all-white all-male school. Do you agree that it is good that we have more than A&M, isn't solely military, and now incorporates females and people of color? Because those items certainly weren't in his will, because you cannot predict the future or know what will happen.
What legal battle can you have? There are limited spots for many applicants, both in and out of state. More in state students are accepted (by a wide margin), therefore you have no legal ground to stand on.
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Legend [15730]
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Every year, the same stuff. Can you link the charter?
Feb 14, 2018, 10:15 AM
[ in reply to Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions. ] |
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I don’t know it but will gladly read it.
I know that TGC wanted an Ag school. I also know that that was circa the mid-1880s and I know that the current year is 2018.
Nowhere in his will can I find that he demand that the college serve only, or even predominantly, SC students.
I know that there were six public colleges in SC when Clemson was founded. After Clemson’s founding there have been an additional 25 public institutions offering associate education in trades, or bachelor’s degrees, master’s degrees and PhDs. Those 25 institutions currently enroll over 125,000 students.
Clemson, in my opinion, serves SC better than any other institution in the state. That mission has altered slightly through the years, for the betterment of the citizens of SC.
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Legend [16472]
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Agree with most of your points. Most of the frustration
Feb 13, 2018, 11:00 PM
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that I have seen stems from how late Clemson communicates relative to the majority of students relative to other schools. Have seen numerous instances of this with friends from Clemson that now live in other states. Competing schools (such as Texas Tech, A&M, Georgia, Auburn) are sending acceptance letters and scholarship offers in November and December. Clemson leaves folks in the financial quandary of in-state tuition with scholarships looking for answers versus crickets until February. Clemson is accepting more students at roughly the same in/out ratios, but they have pushed their calendar way back, causing folks issues.
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Standout [340]
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Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions.
Feb 13, 2018, 11:09 PM
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The out of state percentage goes up to almost 40% when you look at who actually enrolls. I think the problem most people have is that there are OOS kids getting in to Clemson with scores less than that of in state kids that do not get in. Its never going to be perfect but I think the OOS ratio needs to lean closer to the 20% number. I found an article a few years ago and if you compare us to surrounding state schools we are easily on the high end for % OOS kids. People can talk about how the Clemson brand is expanding, more people want to come here etc. The reason we have 40% OOS is due to tuition. Our academic institutions have become bloated on the never ending stream of student loan money. There is zero pressure to control costs. I am afraid it will catch up to us sooner or later.
Message was edited by: Macrotiger
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All-Pro [661]
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Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions.
Feb 14, 2018, 12:47 AM
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You are wrong, out of state students on average have better test scores than the in state students. And the same goes for out of state acceptances vs. in state acceptances.
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110%er [7459]
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The 2017 Clemson admissions presentation
Feb 14, 2018, 9:42 AM
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Is posted on this board. The ACT mid 50 range for in and out of state is the same. The SAT range I believe is only 10 points different. Based on those #s being virtually the same, I’m sure there are some out of staters getting in over some in state kids w the same. Those in state are likely bridged.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions.
Feb 14, 2018, 9:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions. ] |
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Clemson can in no way effect who enrolls, they can control admissions, they are still admitting in state students at double the amount of out of state students.
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Legend [15730]
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CU Guru [1431]
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Re: Clemson’s out of state admissions percentage is lower than
Feb 14, 2018, 1:39 PM
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The Citadel is required, by law, to have no less that 51% of the student body comprised of in state students.
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Legend [15730]
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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It's quite simple, actually....
Feb 14, 2018, 7:58 AM
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All these butthurt parents can't possibly wrap their heads around the fact that there might have been candidates out there who were more qualified thantheir perfect little snowflakes
These crybaby parents are becoming insufferable
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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That's not nice...***
Feb 14, 2018, 9:10 AM
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All-Conference [405]
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Re: That's not nice...***
Feb 14, 2018, 9:35 AM
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In state student tuition is subsidized by the state. Budgeting dictates 65% in state enrollment due to state funding. It's all economics and not about favoritism for out of state students over an equally qualified in state student.
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All-In [30766]
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That's not true. The latest #s are 59% in state enrollment***
Feb 14, 2018, 10:57 AM
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110%er [6692]
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Re: That's not true. The latest #s are 59% in state enrollment***
Feb 14, 2018, 5:12 PM
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**For the Fall 2017 freshmen class
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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No, it's not
Feb 14, 2018, 10:18 AM
[ in reply to That's not nice...*** ] |
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The truth hurts sometimes. I don't like to be the bearer of bad news, but alas....
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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You are one of the good ones, but it's your truth...
Feb 14, 2018, 10:28 AM
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some share in it based on certain reasons/criteria, but not all share in it based on others.
Happy Valentine's Day '13.
I don't see a day soon where mankind is immune to disappointment. I understand the frustration in those dealing with others inability to come to grips with it in a timely and/or understanding fashion - based on what it is some might believe to be their truth.
I admire your verve[s].
So shines a good deed in a weary world...
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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True indeed
Feb 14, 2018, 10:42 AM
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My humble opinion is just that - mine and my own, and I know I can't/shouldn't speak for everybody
For some reason, the recent outcry against the University, admissions office, bridge program, & President has rubbed me the wrong way.
Clemson is a great place, but unfortunately, cannot accept all those who apply.....some unfortunate folks are going to be turned away...Clemson has to draw the line somewhere...
To which I say, "Is this Clemson's fault? Is this the President's fault? Or maybe, just maybe, your child perhaps just didn't make the cut?"
I guess I'm not one who favors making excuses and pointing fingers over personal shortcomings
Happy V-day to you and yours, DSP!
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Nothing wrong with that '13, it's yours to have and to hold.
Feb 14, 2018, 10:55 AM
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Salutations.
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Orange Blooded [2293]
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Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions.
Feb 14, 2018, 9:35 AM
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Thank the lord I went to Clemson when I did ('96-'00). I got accepted with a 3.6 GPA and a 1230 SAT! Homework wasn't my thing in highschool.  I caught it during the Tommy West days of football so maybe that helped. haha
Honestly, I thank God all the time for letting me get accepted to Clemson. Now that I see how difficult it is to get in...I'm even more thankful. Plus to see how much Clemson has grown/changed and the culture itself....I'm more proud today than I've ever been.
Just wish I could say I used my degree. All thoses countless hours going in and out of Sirrine Hall for Management and Marketing classes and end up in the Clinical Research field for the past 14 years. But hey...I'm not complaining!
Go Tigers
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CU Guru [1259]
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Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions.
Feb 14, 2018, 11:12 AM
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You are spot on agree 100%. The only difference in now and the past is the huge increase of applicants. With a large increase in applicants is going to result in a larger number of people not being accepted. Nothing has changed except the number of ppl applying for enrollment at Clemson. This has created what ppl view as clemson forgetting it's roots, when couldn't be more false. You can argue that the atheletic department has started to be all about the money and starting to forget about the iptay members that have been members for decades for newer more wealthy bandwagon donors since we went to the first title game in 15. I have noticed a big increase in the athletic department forgetting it's roots. I remember when they were raising money for the west endzone us donors that have been around for generations helped raise that money, and keep in mind this was during the Bowden days when we weren't winning titles and ACC 3 years in a row. Now they have seem to forget about us lifetime donors. Had the worst experience ever applying for bowl tickets this past year and I know A LOT of people that had the same problems. Only thing I'm disappointed in clemson about is how the athletic department has treated some long time donors for new bandwagon money! Just my honest thought I love clemson to death been to every home game since I was a baby and bleed orange and purple but feel the need to bring the issue up not that most will care ??. Go Tigers!!!
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Orange Blooded [3510]
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Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions.
Feb 14, 2018, 11:26 AM
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My biggest problem with the athletic side of things is how many "dead people" there are every Saturday in DV. I know multiple people who get tickets based on IPTAY membership for a person who has been dead for more than 20 years. If IPTAY would purge the folks who get tickets/priority based on a now deceased IPTAY members, then people would be able to move up and get the privileges they actually earned. By rule, IPTAY doesn't allow IPTAY points to transfer from one person to another but don't actually prevent it in kind.
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Orange Blooded [3545]
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Well said and perfectly explained***
Feb 14, 2018, 11:33 AM
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All-In [48078]
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It's just probably because....
Feb 14, 2018, 11:39 AM
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parents are shocked that their perfect child didn't get in. It was probably always a given in their minds that their child was off to attend Clemson right after high school. Now the parents have to tell other parents their perfect kid didn't get in. They also have to see their children bummed out. In the end their child will be able to graduate Clemson if they really have that as their goal. It's not that big of a deal. Its crying over spilled milk.
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All-Conference [414]
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Good post, I have a few random comments of my own on this
Feb 14, 2018, 12:42 PM
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1. I have a degree from Clemson, and I'm thankful that I do because I probably wouldn't get accepted these days.
2. I have 2 kids and always tell my kids to work hard and they'll get what they earn. For example, my son plays soccer and he's not that good at this point, so he sits on the bench a lot. Do I get up, run over to the coach and ask why he's not in the game? No, I tell him that he needs to keep practicing and he'll earn playing time.
3. Thanks for posting this in the Amphitheater. As a relative new comer to joining Tigernet (I've lurked around here for the last year or two) I don't understand what all these posts about the admissions are all about all of the sudden, and a lot of them get posted in the Football forum. What's that got to do with Football?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions.
Feb 14, 2018, 5:06 PM
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Clemson's charter requires the majority of students admitted to come from South Carolina.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions.
Feb 14, 2018, 5:13 PM
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Do you know where to get a copy of the Clemson Charter? I've looked but have found no such document.
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Rock Defender [53]
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I’m guessing they are referring to the will of
Feb 14, 2018, 8:45 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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You know after reading all of that, I understand
Feb 14, 2018, 9:01 PM
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Orange Blooded [4142]
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Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions.
Feb 14, 2018, 5:07 PM
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I think we should only accept students who will attend basketball and football games .
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110%er [7555]
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Posts: 8001
Joined: 6/8/05
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Re: I don't understand the frustration with Clemson admissions.
Feb 14, 2018, 8:18 PM
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agree with what you are saying......but even with those high SAT scores and GPAs you have to REALLY want it and apply yourself when you get to CLEMSON.....because I know of friends who did not do this when they got there and either took 6 or 7 years or just flunked out completely and did not graduate.....just saying.........Go Tigers!!!!!!
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