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All-In [42139]
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So help a brother out on all this education stuff.
Feb 8, 2017, 3:43 PM
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I see some of you cheering the idea of abolishing the Dept. of Ed. Okay. Cool. So then what's the point of even having DeVos and also lauding this:
People praise her for the promise of school choice. But her plan will cost the federal government $20 billion. That doesn't seem like fiscal conservatism. Plus, it will cost an additional $100 billion from the states (2 bil per state but hey, y'all can do that math... right?). Where are the states coming up with that money? So if that's the case and you like that idea, then how come people also want her to...
Give states and local governments more control over education? That's not really giving them more control if the feds are forcing a voucher program on them. Obviously cutting the Dept. of Ed would give them that control, but that eliminates DeVos's plan to create "school choice" initiatives. In fact, she's now pretty much lost all her power to do that.
Sooooo... what's the goal here? Am I missing some key Common Core math equation here?
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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It is really simple. Public education is a monopoly.
Feb 8, 2017, 3:45 PM
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Competition drives up quality and drives down cost.
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CU Medallion [56062]
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Public education is not a business.***
Feb 8, 2017, 3:48 PM
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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It holds a monopoly on education.***
Feb 8, 2017, 3:50 PM
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All-In [42139]
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True. What we need are some private options.
Feb 8, 2017, 3:52 PM
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You know, like private schools or something that people could choose to attend.
Oh.
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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And the parents should not have to pay twice.***
Feb 8, 2017, 3:54 PM
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All-In [42139]
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Pay for what twice?***
Feb 8, 2017, 3:58 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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It's the same half-brained argument I hear from the
Feb 8, 2017, 4:07 PM
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retirees out on Lake Murray who oppose any bond referendum for school improvements or new school construction. Their taxes shouldn't pay for something they don't use, etc.
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All-In [42139]
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I wonder if the "pay for it twice" folks are cool with...
Feb 8, 2017, 4:10 PM
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People without children getting to opt out of paying those taxes?
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All-In [38514]
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Or toll roads...***
Feb 8, 2017, 4:11 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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Re: I'm okay with that
Feb 8, 2017, 4:14 PM
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In fact, the more kids you have, the more you should have to pay in taxes...not less.
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All-In [42139]
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Them breeders cursing at you right now.***
Feb 8, 2017, 4:17 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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don't care***
Feb 8, 2017, 4:24 PM
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All-In [42139]
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Suh-weet!
Feb 8, 2017, 4:14 PM
[ in reply to I'm okay with that*** ] |
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I'm opposed to military intervention where it isn't needed, like Iraq. I have no use for it. Can I have that money back?
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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I haven't seen Iraq bombs separated on my property taxes.
Feb 8, 2017, 4:23 PM
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Is that a new thing?
Because "school board operating" and "school board bonds (566-1829)" are itemized as 63.0% of my property tax bill on my house.
It'd be pretty easy to itemize that.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Again, just do what the Lake Murray folks do, leave trash,
Feb 8, 2017, 4:26 PM
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old toilets and bathtubs, and other random furniture along your property line out by the road in an effort to lower their property values.
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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That would be a proper Gamecock thing to do.
Feb 8, 2017, 4:29 PM
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It won't matter here. Have you seen home prices in the old village in Mt Pleasant? Parts of that ARE a ghetto.
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Oculus Spirit [79428]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Do you quit educating the all children of illegal immigrants
Feb 8, 2017, 4:39 PM
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or just the one's that aren't citizens themselves?
If you cut off education to undocumented students, between state, federal, and local governments, the total savings would be around $6.5 billion. Or, a savings between state, federal and local governments of 0.009%
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Oculus Spirit [79428]
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All of the children of illegal immigrants
Feb 8, 2017, 4:43 PM
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Dejar la escuela's amigos. Tienen que pagar para jugar.
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Rock Defender [53]
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So citizens as well? It would likely cost more in legal
Feb 8, 2017, 4:48 PM
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expenses than any savings achieved by implementing this program.
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Oculus Spirit [79428]
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Long term, I doubt it. Maybe do away with the whole anchor
Feb 8, 2017, 4:56 PM
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baby concept. You know, don't reward people for breaking the law type of stuff.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Good luck with that.***
Feb 8, 2017, 5:02 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79428]
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Yeah, makes too much sense. We'll just keep up this game
Feb 8, 2017, 5:07 PM
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until we run out of money, I know.
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Congrats, you've passed the RobertN scale in that every post
Feb 8, 2017, 4:50 PM
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is a troll.
I also saw my pole got taken down. I think the lunge was in about 80% agreement concerning your misery.
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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Ain't that something***
Feb 8, 2017, 4:53 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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And I like how you'ev bought into the "undocumented" thing
Feb 8, 2017, 4:55 PM
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Just saying "undocumented" doesn't change that it's against federal law.
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Rock Defender [53]
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In that same post I also used the term illegal immigrant.
Feb 8, 2017, 4:59 PM
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Was just using the shorthand. Unbunch your britches.
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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Yeah, I'm mad.
Feb 8, 2017, 5:03 PM
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I think I'll start a "pole".
lulz
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All-In [38514]
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I don't use the military, I shouldn't be taxed for that.***
Feb 8, 2017, 4:15 PM
[ in reply to I'm okay with that*** ] |
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Oculus Spirit [79428]
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All-In [38514]
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All-In [42139]
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Yeah, I don't think you're getting the question.
Feb 8, 2017, 3:49 PM
[ in reply to It is really simple. Public education is a monopoly. ] |
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Do you want the states and local govs to have more power, thus either extremely limiting or eliminating the Dept of Ed?
Or are you calling for a national voucher program forced by the feds that will cost taxpayers billions?
Which one is it?
Hint: Only one of these answers is the conservative one.
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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If the feds regulate and fund the schools, the schools
Feb 8, 2017, 3:51 PM
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will be no different than we now have.
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All-In [42139]
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Soooo...
Feb 8, 2017, 3:52 PM
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That puts you in the "more power to states and locals" camp, correct? Less Dept of Ed?
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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The closer you can get to the people, the better.***
Feb 8, 2017, 3:55 PM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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am i the only one in umerica that doesn't give on
Feb 8, 2017, 3:46 PM
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#### over Devos or DoE? or anything related to any of it?
it just seems like the outrage of the day that always fizzles until the next outrage comes up.
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Oculus Spirit [79428]
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Try paying property taxes in Anderson county and then
Feb 8, 2017, 3:49 PM
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reading the local news. It's like sheet, if that ain't money NOT well spent, I dunno what is.
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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Well, yeah. You have to pay the property taxes for schools,
Feb 8, 2017, 3:53 PM
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and if you want your child to go to private school, you have to pay again for that.
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Oculus Spirit [79428]
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Fully understand, my point was more about the fact that I
Feb 8, 2017, 3:56 PM
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don't feel like I'm getting a very good ROI when the kid whose education I'm funding is breaking into my garage.
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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Crap, man. The gov't NEVER gives you a good ROI.***
Feb 8, 2017, 3:59 PM
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All-In [42139]
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All-In [38514]
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Bingo!!!***
Feb 8, 2017, 4:09 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79428]
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Some say education solves these types of problems
Feb 8, 2017, 4:10 PM
[ in reply to I guess the schools are supposed to fix that... ] |
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Probably more complicated than that, my comment was more in jest....But I do feel like I pay a shitton of money to help educate some hopeless souls.
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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You are paying for some expensive baby sitting.***
Feb 9, 2017, 8:04 AM
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Orange Blooded [3516]
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All-In [42139]
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All-In [38514]
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She's going to put God back in schools.
Feb 8, 2017, 3:49 PM
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Based upon a scientific study of my Buddybook feed.
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All-In [28802]
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Going to end public edu and turn us into Christian Iran
Feb 8, 2017, 4:13 PM
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Based upon my Facebook feed.
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All-In [38514]
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So we have the same feed?
Feb 8, 2017, 4:50 PM
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Seems to be a 50/50 split on whether people are for or against.
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All-In [28802]
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Mine is 99% against
Feb 8, 2017, 4:56 PM
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I'm afraid to call down the wrath of liberal Facebook Ctulhu if I so much as make a qualified defense of DeVos. Just about every comment I've seen about Jeff Sessions just assumes he's a racist. It's crazy.
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Legend [15748]
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I like the idea of abolishing the DoED so I'll chime in.
Feb 8, 2017, 3:49 PM
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I haven't paid an ounce of attention to the Sec of Ed drama. I don't know what her policies are. I agree that the elimination of the Department and resultant elimination of her position would make her proposals irrelevant.
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All-In [42139]
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Okay...
Feb 8, 2017, 3:51 PM
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So that's why I don't get why the same people (not necessarily you) are hollering about more "choice," a national voucher program, etc.
They can't have both.
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Legend [15748]
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I don't understand. Just because they wouldn't have the federal
Feb 8, 2017, 3:56 PM
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government mandating or financing school programs doesn't mean that a state wouldn't decide to do it, right?
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All-In [42139]
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Well, yeah, they could.
Feb 8, 2017, 3:59 PM
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But DeVos wants a national system. But if we just put in the state's hands, they could call their own shots on it.
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Heisman Winner [137863]
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But what if a state goes off the reservation and
Feb 8, 2017, 4:12 PM
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continues to push public education with little to no Jesus in it?
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All-In [42139]
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God will smite them. It'll be cool. Just wait.***
Feb 8, 2017, 4:13 PM
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Oculus Spirit [83073]
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All-In [28802]
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None of that stuff requires a federal department***
Feb 8, 2017, 5:20 PM
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Oculus Spirit [83073]
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It does if the states don't take up the slack. You think SC
Feb 9, 2017, 8:56 AM
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would take up the slack?
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110%er [6155]
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Re: So help a brother out on all this education stuff.
Feb 8, 2017, 5:44 PM
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Education is not a power granted to the federal government in the Constitution. Per the 10th amendment, it should be completely under control of the States. The goal of any true conservative should be to shut the department of education down. Not sure what the goal is with the hiring of DeVos, but I'm sure she's a fine lady.
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All-In [31887]
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I do not support the feds forcing school choice...
Feb 8, 2017, 6:25 PM
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on the states. I support the feds not standing the way of a state choosing to offer school choice.
I also do not give credence to any reports that charter schools cost extra money to the feds/states, as it very much depends on how such schools are structured and how the funding/credits are structured.
I would like first get to the point of the fed funding to the states not coming with strings attached (which is basically the way the feds get away with legislating public education to the states since they really don't have the Constitutional power to do so outright on most issues). NCLB is a good example of that, since it didn't really "force" the states to do anything, but rather made federal funding dependent on complying.
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All-In [42139]
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Re: I do not support the feds forcing school choice...
Feb 8, 2017, 8:09 PM
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I support the feds not standing the way of a state choosing to offer school choice.
Agreed. But I also think this should be left to referendum if the plan is to scrap public ed and move to 100 percent choice. But I take strong issue with public monies going to private, Christian (or any religious) institution.
I also do not give credence to any reports that charter schools cost extra money to the feds/states, as it very much depends on how such schools are structured and how the funding/credits are structured.
I believe they've found that on the whole admin salaries are higher at charter schools and less on instruction. I think they receive the same funding as traditional schools.
NCLB is a good example of that, since it didn't really "force" the states to do anything, but rather made federal funding dependent on complying.
Agreed, and it pretty much held schools in poor areas hostage with funds, which caused many to fudge numbers.
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110%er [7657]
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Re: I do not support the feds forcing school choice...
Feb 9, 2017, 8:59 AM
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I agree with you on all of this. School choice in SC is a sore subject for me. Part of the school choice program is charter and magnet schools that except students who are in their district and then use a lottery program to fill the rest of their seats. I'm not sure how that qualifies as school choice. It's more like luck of the draw.
In CCSD, Charter and magnet schools have special programs (academic and arts), smaller classroom sizes, and higher paid teachers. If you're lucky, and your child's name is drawn, he/she can experience a better education. The rest of us remain status quo in our public schools. Tax payers pay millions more for school buses to support getting all of these children to their respective schools, some as far as 20+ miles away. Add to that, many school bus stops are in grocery store parking lots and therefore still require parent assistance to get their child there.
The people who are less likely to take advantage of this are people in poor communities who cannot or do not have the means to provide transportation. The people who are more likely, and do, are people in middle-class communities who already have access to good public schools but want their children to go to special schools.
I think there are also social implications with this structure as well. Middle-class children likely don't attend school with their neighbors and therefore are less likely to be social outside of school. Children who attend special schools are exposed to better programs, which to me seems to produce inequality in learning and therefore creates a social gap among children and their peers.
Just my 2 cents. I'm not for it.
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