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Legend [15778]
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I'm listening...
Jun 5, 2020, 10:33 AM
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All-In [25850]
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Re: I'm listening...
Jun 5, 2020, 10:39 AM
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Nope. All Lives Matter. Period.
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Standout [304]
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Re: I'm listening...
Jun 5, 2020, 10:54 AM
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Nope. Black Lives Matter.
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Recruit [97]
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Re: I'm listening...
Jun 5, 2020, 4:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: I'm listening... ] |
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So by definition you of "All" you support the following lives as well?
Syrian refugees?
LGBTQ community?
Poor people on food stamps or some sort of assistance?
Muslims?
People of different faith then you?
Before you say all lives matter, maybe you should look up the definition of "all", it's towards the beginning on the book ...
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CU Guru [1109]
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a helpful graphic
Jun 5, 2020, 11:06 AM
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it seems to do a good job of explaining the heart of Black Lives Matter. But I'll challenge you a bit on the language in it that says "black lives are viewed as expendable by police and the government that employs them."
according to the Washington Post's fatal force database, there were 15 black unarmed people killed by police in 2019. There were 25 white unarmed people killed by police in that same year. I know whites make up a larger percentage of the population, and these numbers are still skewed against black people given percentage of total population, but those numbers don't quite fit the narrative that "black lives are viewed as expendable by police and the government that employs them."
Unpopular opinion, I know. I, like the vast majority of America, support reform on police powers and aggressively pursuing cases of policy brutality, especially in the black community. The MN cop should be behind bars for a long time. But when the rhetoric suggests an extreme disparity in fatal force that isn't fully supported by the statistics, we run the risk of alienating the people we might be hoping to convince.
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All-In [39020]
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Police brutality against blacks is a huge problem in every
Jun 5, 2020, 11:16 AM
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way...except statistically.
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Orange Blooded [3134]
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You realize that logic won't prevail in hypersensitive times
Jun 5, 2020, 11:17 AM
[ in reply to a helpful graphic ] |
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that we have in this moment.
You have to step in line with the BLM movement or be labeled as "part of the problem".
There is no discussion anymore.
Sadly, people willing to discuss this with logic will remain silent and won't engage in any conversations.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I don't think that is true...
Jun 5, 2020, 11:20 AM
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I have been able to have very substantive and friendly discussions by simply listening. I haven't had to hide who I was or what I believed.
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All-In [39020]
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If you're just listening it's not a discussion it's a sermon***
Jun 5, 2020, 11:20 AM
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All-In [27366]
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Walk-On [119]
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Re: If they really feel this way, then why didn't the march for
Jun 5, 2020, 12:07 PM
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Police reform and being against police brutality helps us all. No need to deflect.
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All-In [39020]
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All lower class lives are treated as expendable by police
Jun 5, 2020, 11:14 AM
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just nobody gives a #### about white people being murdered by cops because it can't be used to spark racial divide and gain political power.
Same reason the only black lives that matter are those taken by police. No tears for David Dorn or the other four black people killed in these riots.
I'm not about to fight for people who wouldn't fight for me. Doesn't work that way.
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Walk-On [119]
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Re: All lower class lives are treated as expendable by police
Jun 5, 2020, 12:08 PM
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Just because there’s no social media cry for support doesn’t mean there’s no empathy for David Dorn. No need to deflect.
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Legend [16470]
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When the movement kills others and doesn't seem to care
Jun 5, 2020, 4:21 PM
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that is extremely hypocritical and they lose credibility. Police must use reason and be prosecuted when they perform acts like in MN. Likewise those protesting said act must do so with reason or they lose the ability to inform and influence others.
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CU Guru [1522]
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Re: I'm listening...
Jun 5, 2020, 11:19 AM
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As Seegs wrote, your graphic does a good job of explaining the heart of Black Lives Matter. So as someone who truly believes all lives matter including black lives. How would YOU feel about a sign/slogan "Black Lives Matter too"? Also how do you think the larger black population would feed about that slogan?
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110%er [8194]
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Re: I'm listening...
Jun 5, 2020, 11:22 AM
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Am I supposed to just ignore that panel 6 is based upon false data, and is based upon a political narrative meant to manipulate and energize a particular segment of voters. I really struggle with the whole opinion vs facts thing, just no fun at parties.
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Legend [15778]
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You're free to ignore/believe anything you want...
Jun 5, 2020, 11:29 AM
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Do you really believe that black/white people are treated the same by the police?
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CU Guru [1548]
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I really want mandatory audio/video installed on all police
Jun 5, 2020, 11:56 AM
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Do I think that blacks are treated differently by police than whites. Yes, but not to the extent the press and political organization would have us to believe. Now I have a question for you. Do you believe that, in general, and for whatever reason, that blacks are a little more belligerent and noncompliant to arrest than the average population? How a person who has been detained gets treated by police has a lot to do with the demeaner and actions of the detainee. When I was in the process of first getting my drivers license, my father taught me to treat the police with respect, comply with any reasonable request, no sudden moves, and to bite my tongue even if the police say something that I think is out of line. He said that I/we could take action after the fact if the police were out of line. I add that I think the average belligerence and non compliance of blacks plays against blacks in their treatment by police. I don't think that this should be done, but I understand why.
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Legend [15778]
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I agree with AV...and I'll take it a step further, I'd like
Jun 5, 2020, 12:36 PM
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to see a non-lethal approach be the first approach to a criminal stop. With the knowledge that we possess there has to be a way to incapacitate other than with a fire arm. Granted there will be times when the only force is and should be lethal.
Having black friends, many professionals, who have personal stories of the way they or their kids have been treated, makes me believe that the press is not blowing this out of proportion. It's something as a white person I've never encountered and truthfully never really acknowledged.
No I don't believe that black people are more belligerent and/or non-compliant when arrested. I think in general, that they may be less so due to being scared to death. I also don't believe that the majority of police are racist or bad.
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CU Guru [1548]
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Re: I agree with AV...and I'll take it a step further, I'd like
Jun 5, 2020, 1:25 PM
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Belligerence/non-compliance by ANYBODY would be exposed by mandatory audio/video installed on ALL police. My white butt was indeed railroaded by police in my own hometown once. I had license plates from 2 states away and had not lived in the area for about 10 years. I maintained my composure even knowing that I was being railroaded. A week later, I had an unnecessary arrest record and the police involved had desk duty for about half of a year. Further, my home town police made a rule that police could no longer moonlight as security in bars.
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Orange Blooded [3134]
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Jesus said:
Jun 5, 2020, 11:29 AM
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1 Peter 4:8: “Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins."
John 15:12: “My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you."
Jesus said for you, me, everyone, to love one another. end of story...
I know that this movement is about the senseless killings of black men, women and children.
In order to understand why there is a resistance to the BLM, then you have to understand it from a white person's perspective. White people only hear the emphasis of the word "black". That implies that white lives don't matter.
BLM would go farther into the white community to say that All Lives Matter... unfortunately both sides will dig in their heals.
No real change is going to happen until All are included.
Americans want PEACE AND JUSTICE. You can have both. You can condemn the police killing AND condemn the rioting at the same time.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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brilliant!!!
Jun 5, 2020, 11:36 AM
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This is so right...
The question is, who is going to take the first step?
"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." Romans 12:18
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Orange Blooded [3134]
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Everyone should meet together in the middle. It IS time for
Jun 5, 2020, 11:50 AM
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change. For everyone.
The optimist in me says there is a chance.
The pessimist in me says "good luck with that".
Of course my ancestry is native american. Some may say I'm mostly white. I'm at the age where I don't really care what you think about me. I'm trying to be the best me I can be. I have friends of all races.
I'm American. I want PEACE and JUSTICE.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I agree we need to meet in the middle...
Jun 5, 2020, 11:58 AM
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but realistically, that won't happen until somebody let's down their guard and humbles themselves. It is acknowledging the experience of someone else, not necessarily agreeing with it.
I saw meme somewhere of two people standing on either side of a number on the ground. One side saw a 6. The other side saw a 9. Both were correct.
I see so many people say they treat people how they treat them. I think that is a step too late.
“But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.Do to others as you would have them do to you." Luke 6:27-31.
if we handled arguments in our marriages the way we handle this issue, we would all be in trouble.
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110%er [5121]
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Re: I agree we need to meet in the middle...
Jun 5, 2020, 12:26 PM
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People are trying. The efforts are getting a bit overshadowed by the violence/looting and innumerable what-about-isms. People who are trying to empathize and want to help are being ostracized by those that prefer chaos and unfairness.
We have to accept that this is not “us vs them”, it’s really “us vs us”. We are all losing the battle right now and we all need to work toward winning, for all of us.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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yes! don't quit!***
Jun 5, 2020, 12:27 PM
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CU Guru [1204]
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Re: I'm listening...
Jun 5, 2020, 11:37 AM
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Yes, black lives matter. So, let us ban the abortion of unborn black babies. That would be a huge boost to the black population.
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110%er [6878]
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Re: I'm listening...
Jun 5, 2020, 11:56 AM
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Thank you for the post. It's a good explanation. But I feel the statement is better than the group using the name now that they have aligned themselves with antifa. Seriously, I'm trying to learn. Can you help me with that?
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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love that!
Jun 5, 2020, 11:59 AM
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I think the other way around...antifa and political groups have attached their own agendas to the movement.
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110%er [6878]
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Re: love that!
Jun 5, 2020, 12:08 PM
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Maybe that's true, haven't thought of it that way but why hasn't BLM tried to distance themselves. They seem to use each other. I'm sad. I'm in my 70s and I have personal and distinct memories about racism that the younger generation can't even imagine. Bless MLK Jr, he sacrificed so much.
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Legend [16470]
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And Dr. King was anti-violence and I believe would not be a
Jun 5, 2020, 4:24 PM
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fan of the current methods that the protesters sure don't seem inclined to stop or criticize. If they would join up with the police to stop the thugs they would end up together in the middle at a common position with the thugs imprisoned.
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Orange Blooded [3134]
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Do you realize that the BLM is soooooo close to gaining
Jun 5, 2020, 12:01 PM
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support from a HUGE percentage of the population???
I know it's semantics, but, change it to "ALL" and BLM will have the support of all 90+% of Americans.
HOWEVER, BLM needs to give up on defunding the police. Ain't never going to happen with most Americans.
PEACE AND JUSTICE
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110%er [5072]
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Re: Do you realize that the BLM is soooooo close to gaining
Jun 5, 2020, 12:55 PM
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I feel that would help some, but feel that many people who get caught up on “all lives matter” as a way to dismiss the movement would just find another reason to do so if it was worded differently.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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some definitely would...
Jun 5, 2020, 1:02 PM
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based on what I am reading on this board
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CU Guru [1254]
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I'm listening... Are we
Jun 5, 2020, 12:37 PM
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listening to Jesus Christ. He is the one that said All Lives matter. His death, resurrection, grace and mercy is for all of mankind that believeth in Him
and follow Him. A senseless death is without question horrible..
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110%er [5121]
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Re: I'm listening... Are we
Jun 5, 2020, 12:56 PM
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Yes, but...
There’s nothing wrong with showing empathy to our neighbors that are hurting right now. Some feel like society has decided that they don’t matter...that’s a horrible thing. We should desire to change that.
Jesus would fight for those that feel marginalized. He would go to the well at the time when only societal outcasts were allowed to be there and show them that they are loved. I’m sure you know the story I’m referencing. Why is it so hard for us to do the same? Why can’t we all just accept that people are hurting and declaring “all lives matter” is just making things worse? I feel confident that’s not what Jesus would do. He would go persue the one lost lamb, leaving the other 99 behind, no matter the color of the lamb.
There’s a lot of “Christians” that need to do some self reflection. There’s a lot of pastors that need to lead. It seems that the most vocal church goers that I know are the biggest bigots.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Re: I'm listening... Are we
Jun 5, 2020, 1:07 PM
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"There’s a lot of “Christians” that need to do some self reflection. There’s a lot of pastors that need to lead. It seems that the most vocal church goers that I know are the biggest bigots."
I think that is true, AND I think a lot of them aren't but do not realize how hurtful their responses are. As a Christian leader, I'm trying to help others understand that their reactions, the "whataboutisms" that I think you pointed out are as hurtful as if you said something explicitly racist.
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