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Orange Blooded [4365]
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CU Guru [1061]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 18, 2019, 10:07 AM
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All one can do is play the cards that they are dealt.
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All-TigerNet [11244]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 18, 2019, 9:33 PM
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Yeah, do it like Gawga and fold on a straight flush.
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Legend [16472]
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Get better, win your league, and get in the top 4.***
Dec 18, 2019, 10:10 AM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Get better, win your league, and get in the top 4.***
Dec 18, 2019, 10:38 AM
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I think the point is that it is hard to get better, win your league when all of the best talent is going to the existing champions.
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110%er [7169]
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That's an excuse. Period.
Dec 18, 2019, 10:51 AM
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Hire the right coaches. Recruit talent to fit your scheme, not stars.
Exhibit A. Clemson with Dabo was not an over night success.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: That's an excuse. Period.
Dec 18, 2019, 4:30 PM
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How many Clemson stories in the last 20 years ? 50 years??
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Legend [16472]
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They have turned bowl games into participation trophies. If
Dec 18, 2019, 10:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: Get better, win your league, and get in the top 4.*** ] |
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you increase the playoff size, then it's just another game that the top 4 have to play and risk injuries. Go to 8, then 9 and 10 whine "what about me?", then it's 16? Where does it stop? Stop the whining, put together a good team, develop your players, and win your league.
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Orange Blooded [2563]
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Re: Get better, win your league, and get in the top 4.***
Dec 18, 2019, 11:06 AM
[ in reply to Re: Get better, win your league, and get in the top 4.*** ] |
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Yea, I don't think I like that argument. We have never been a traditional blue blood and we don't have some rich history - it took a lot of work and many years of grinding away to get to where we're at. This is the first year LSU has been in - they've been behind Bama and Auburn for years. Utah almost got in - it's their own fault they didn't make it. Win with who you have - coach them up.
The Bernie mentality "it's too hard! It's not my fault!!" ideology is permeating into every facet of our lives.. ugh.
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Hall of Famer [24687]
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"Bernie mentality"...? Really?***
Dec 18, 2019, 11:38 PM
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Legend [17786]
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All-In [39020]
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It's supposed to be hard.
Dec 19, 2019, 2:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: Get better, win your league, and get in the top 4.*** ] |
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It's not like Clemson had an easy path and now we're pulling the ladder up behind us. It took a lot of time and effort to build Clemson to its current status. I don't remember Alabama, Ohio State and Oklahoma talking about trying to spread the wealth to Clemson.
Now we need to make it easier for other teams to compete by...letting more undeserving teams into the playoff to determine the national champion? No thanks.
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Team Captain [473]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 18, 2019, 10:14 AM
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Lets really think about it though. Outside of these five teams you still have the same 4-5 ankle biters (Florida, Texas, A&M, etc.) with decent recruiting numbers every year. Would have the same issue just with slightly more teams.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 18, 2019, 10:41 AM
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Maybe, but there would be a little bit more movement and a bit more of a chance for new programs to get in there and maybe get on a little run. This year Oregon, Baylor, Wisconsin
It wouldn't solve it but it might make it better.
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Orange Blooded [2030]
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Wow! High School athletes want to play
Dec 18, 2019, 10:15 AM
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for winning College teams and not teams like Minnesota that won the national championship three years in a row in the 1930's. Who would have thought.
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All-In [40872]
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LSU is a 1 and done like UGa was***
Dec 18, 2019, 10:16 AM
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110%er [5572]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 18, 2019, 10:24 AM
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It seems the more things change the more they stay the same, to a degree. IN every era College football has been run by an oligarchy of teams. The difference now is that our Tigers are part of the oligarchy.
Is the 4-team CFP broke? I don't know, but up 'till now the 2 best teams have played for the NC every year. An 8-team playoff might make some happy, but it won't change who wins the national championship.
Dabo/Clemson was winning 10+ games a year before we ever sniffed anything close to a #1 class. Good look to who think that recruiting rankings win you championships. Just ask UGA, FSU, etc..
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 18, 2019, 10:43 AM
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I don't think an 8 team CFP would necessarily get us a better champion, but it might help us get a healthier college football competition overall.
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All-TigerNet [11244]
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Re: Remember when
Dec 18, 2019, 9:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: Here's an interesting article ] |
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it was Nebraska, USC (the real one), Texas. Sun don't shine on the same dog's ayze...
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110%er [7110]
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How can teams “hoard” talent when...
Dec 18, 2019, 10:42 AM
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it’s the PLAYERS who choose the teams they play for? I haven’t read the article but I smell a classic capitalism vs. socialism fairness discussion there.
It is VERY possible to move up into the elite level; Dabo Swinney has proven that’s beyond any doubt. We were quite average 10 years ago; with players like Spiller, Sammy Watkins and Tajh Boyd we moved up into the top 15. Bring in Deshaun Watson and a lot of high character, hard working talent that became elite level players (Power Rangers) and you win. Win, win, win. Get the potential out of very good players. Then one day you wake up and guess what - YOU’RE ELITE!!
Consistency on the coaching staff, a healthy culture that GREATLY adds to the ability to realize the full potential of these players as athletes AND as men, and some good fortune along the way regarding injuries... all these things lead to the main prerequisite to joining the elite - VICTORY.
I’ll be interested to see how it goes for uga in future recruiting if they don’t win more when it counts. If they keep screwing the pooch in big games, I suspect Kirby’s draw as a recruiter will wane and Clemson will be able to raid the state of Georgia even more than we do now. We’ve already taken the best two QB’s to come out of the state in the last decade.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: How can teams “hoard” talent when...
Dec 18, 2019, 11:00 AM
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I am not talking about fairness. I am talking about healthy competition. That is the essence of capitalism. The benefits of capitalism occur when there is healthy competition throughout the market. Monopolies and oligarchies reduce that healthy competition and thus the benefits of capitalism.
I recognize and am extremely grateful for our rise to elite status, but I think we also need to recognize that dominance reduces the health of the others. The ACC is not on a down cycle because of some astrological anomaly. The more dominant Clemson is the more difficult it is for other ACC teams to be very good. It benefits us but in the long run it doesn't benefit the game.
Also, let's all recognize how rare it is for a school to rise to such an elite status. How many excellent things had to fall into place over an extended period of time for this to have happened at Clemson (Thanks Dabo, BV, Taj, Sammy, DW, TL, ETN, and dozens of others)
I don't want to ever give up our place on the top of the mountain, but i also don't want to see the mountain become hollowed out and collapse.
The NFL is the most popular sport in the country because it has found ways to be somewhat balanced and competitive. Many team's fan can start the season with a reasonable hope to win a championship. NCAA football cannot do those things, but increasing the health of the competition can only be a good thing for football.
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110%er [7110]
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Ok, so your remedy to this malady in...
Dec 18, 2019, 11:13 AM
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the upper echelons of college football is... what? An eight-team playoff? A college football draft?
At some point you have to accept the fact that the cream rises to the top. The best coaches who get the most out of their recruits and win games will continue to attract top talent. It doesn’t last forever. Ask Nebraska. Ask Tennessee. Ask Florida. Ask Penn State. All those schools were amongst the elite in the past; now they aren’t.
“All glory is fleeting”. “Patton”
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110%er [7169]
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You lost me at the ACC is down because of Clemson's dominance.
Dec 18, 2019, 11:14 AM
[ in reply to Re: How can teams “hoard” talent when... ] |
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That is so far from a true statement that I'm curious how one can come up with it.
I'll use the much hated SEC as a counter argument. Not only is Alabama at the top, but there are at any given time no less than 4 other teams in that conference who are legit contenders.
ACC's issue? Presidents and AD not wanting to commit the necessary funds for the correct center pieces in their football program. Coaches. We are regarded as a basketball conference, deservedly so. But you start improving the coaching in football and change the narrative, recruits will come to those programs.
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Hall of Famer [21205]
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You got things wrong.
Dec 18, 2019, 8:32 PM
[ in reply to Re: How can teams “hoard” talent when... ] |
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Socialism, oligarchies, and monopolies are instances where there is no choice. Capitalism is having competition by allowing choices. These recruits get to CHOOSE which school they want to go to. Clemson/Dabo has done it right and we are the hot school because of what has been built. The time will come when someone else is it... and it will still be more like a capitalist.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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They can’t “hoard” it ... they sign it, but can’t keep it.
Dec 18, 2019, 11:23 AM
[ in reply to How can teams “hoard” talent when... ] |
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Witness Joe Burrow, Jalen Hurts, and Justin Fields.
The transfer portal will eliminate he ability to “hoard” talent.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: They can’t “hoard” it ... they sign it, but can’t keep it.
Dec 18, 2019, 4:35 PM
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Remember when the "bluebloods could give out unlimited scholarships and a few rich teams dominated everything. Then the NCAA lower it to 85 scholarships and that led to better competition.
Now with the emphasis on the CFP, maybe they should lower it again - say, 75 per school.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Orange Blooded [4086]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 18, 2019, 10:44 AM
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Until a team that deserves consideration for being the national champion gets left out, there isn't much reason to go to 8 teams except money.
There are only 3 teams that really deserve to be considered this year and there hasn't been a year when a really deserving team was left out.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 18, 2019, 11:06 AM
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If your only goal is to decide the champion, then the 4 team CFP has worked well.
However, if you want to find the champion AND promote a more healthy competition throughout college football, then an 8 team CFP might help you do both. I don't see where it interferes with the choosing of the champion, but it gives more teams a real chance of getting in the playoff - which helps increase competition throughout the year, including recruitment.
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Orange Blooded [2563]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 18, 2019, 11:11 AM
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The original argument of the playoff was to ensure there wasn't a 3-way tie for #1/2 and that some team wasn't left out. I don't remember ever reading about making sure it's more democratic or it'd be nice if everyone got a ribbon. With every expansion, it's only going to lead to more expansion talk.
Bump it to 8 and see what happens.. 3-4 years down the road, the teams ranked in the #10-15 range will be b1tching about how it's not fair they don't get a shot to prove they can be National Champions (with their 9-3 records).. then it goes to 16 teams and all of a sudden the #25 team is complaining that they're ranked and only going to the Gator Bowl or some bs..
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 18, 2019, 4:37 PM
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I don't think you are hearing my argument. Going to 8 might make competition better overall - regular season, conference championships, recruiting, etc.
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Legend [16058]
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No thanks...It would be the SEC and Big 10 with multiple...
Dec 18, 2019, 4:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Here's an interesting article ] |
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teams (2-3) every year with the ACC, Big 12, and Pac 12 with single participants. This of course leaves these conferences continuing to be at a competitive disadvantage. You think the Sugar Bowl is going to pick 1 loss Clemson over 2 loss Bama? Nah. The 4 team playoff is doing exactly what it was made to do. Pick the #1 team in college football.
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Legend [16226]
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I'm for 8 as a means to better regular seasons.
Dec 18, 2019, 5:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: Here's an interesting article ] |
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Replacing the CCGs (5 games) with a quarterfinal round (4 games) would allow getting rid of divisions and thus greater diversity in conference scheduling. Think of replacing annual games vs Wake, Syracuse, BC, and Louisville with a rotation of Pitt, UNC, Va Tech, UVA, Miami, etc. more often. There's no way to build any kind of meaningful rivalries with half our league when we only play once every 6 years.
If Power 5 leagues have their champ in as an auto, it would also contribute to better out of conference scheduling, another boost to regular season schedules and home and home series.
As for the rest of it - Oklahoma has been in 3 CFP's without being a regular in the Top 5 recruiting classes. And if a Clemson can climb the mountain, so can any other Power 5 program that sets their mind to it.
Go Tigers.
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MVP [533]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 19, 2019, 3:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: Here's an interesting article ] |
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TS's definition of "healthy"? This thread has the feel of an elaborate troll job.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 18, 2019, 11:14 AM
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Disagree.
A disproportionate talent "hoarding" always existed, that is what "blue blood programs" do. The difference is that a lot more attention goes into the recruiting process (nationally). OSU, USC, Mich, ND, Bama and Texas has always done it, we just have a news cycle that makes it much more apparent. The other difference is that the media does not pick a champion, which made the blue blood's job easier as the media darling. Now the on-field performance matters more which might not match the media cycle.
Realistically, any top 15 recruiting program has a legitimate shot at the CFP. Clemson did not break into the party with #1 classes and in 2010, no on beyond WCS a few others thought a NC was plausible. It was a grind and build process. It took 2+ title runs (15/16) for us to really break through because before that it was not just getting stars but getting the right players too. We had to find and target the transcendent players like DW4.
An 8 team playoff would not help. It would only make the media blue bloods job easier. Because who would be add? The same darlings that were beat out: the same Alabama, Georgia, Oregon, Ped State, Florida and Wisconsin that are normally already there. It would not get NC State more 5* it would not make UCF path easier. You would still have and likely have more "blue bloods" and that would make Clemson's 15 road tougher as then hoarding talent and depth would be a lot more important.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 18, 2019, 4:45 PM
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I agree that elite schools have always recruited better, but if you read the article they pointed out out how that tendency has gotten worse sine we entered the CFP era - I think thy said that 37% more 5 star recruits signed with the top 4 teams than before CFP.
This is not good for football. It makes recruiting too big a part of the picture. It reduces competition. The NFL understands this problem and they do some things to balance it out a bit. it is a big part of why they are so popular.
The NCAA can't do some of those things but the problem is similar. Perhaps, just perhaps an 8 team playoff might reduce the stagnation of this oligopoly a bit.
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Legend [16058]
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Its really just Bama and Clemson that have been every year..
Dec 18, 2019, 5:07 PM
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(Nearly) and both schools are in the midst of their greatest runs ever. 9 different other teams have made it. One of the teams in that article (LSU) has never made it and another (UGA) has only made it once.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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The bowls have definitely been devalued. Not seen as reward
Dec 18, 2019, 11:18 AM
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by players with NFL aspirations.
They’ve largely become like “participation trophies” ...
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: The bowls have definitely been devalued. Not seen as reward
Dec 18, 2019, 4:47 PM
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Yes, and we have been fortunate enough not to half to deal with that. We've been in the CFP every year. I wonder how they feel at schools with top 25 programs but no real hope of getting into the CFP.
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Orange Blooded [2922]
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The bowls were ‘de-valued’ long ago....
Dec 19, 2019, 6:28 AM
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Because they expanded them to have too many. Which is the problem of the playoff expansion idea.
I don’t see how right now is any different from the BCS era or any other previous era in regards to other bowls. The 4 team playoff has been right on for determining a champion. It keeps the urgency on the regular season and keeps a high standard for getting in. And, like every other era in college football, if you don’t play for the title, you go somewhere nice and play in a bowl game unless you are SCAR.
Bowls were more special when everyone did not go. They got greedy, expanded and diluted it. Let’s not do the same to the playoff.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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I agree with this with one exception ... biggest change is
Dec 19, 2019, 7:46 PM
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... today, unlike in years past, players are quitting on their teams and choosing to skip bowl games.
And not just the crappy Weedeater bowls.
There is talk of a load of Bama players opting out of the Citrus Bowl against Michigan.
I’m sure there are other examples as well.
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All-In [32587]
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From that article - we will have THE MOST
Dec 18, 2019, 11:24 AM
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playoff wins of ANY team - around midnight, December 28th.
alabama currently has (5) and we have (5). On the 28th, we will have SIX and be LEADING the pack !
From this lifetime Tiger fan - that is beyond hard to believe.
But I LOVE IT & WANT MORE, PLEASE ! ! ! !
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Orange Blooded [4896]
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One particularly good line
Dec 18, 2019, 2:18 PM
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"What would happen if an NFL team was getting six first-round picks a year? That’s Clemson, basically."
Very true. But as other commenters have pointed out, we didn't get where we are overnight. If we can do it any other school with the right coach and culture could get close (I started to say do it too but you can't make another Clemson).
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: One particularly good line
Dec 18, 2019, 4:50 PM
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Yeah, I thought that was a great analogy too.
How hard is it to pull a Clemson ? How fortunate does a program have to be ? How many times has it happened over the last 30 years ?
And would an 8 team playoff help make it just a little bit more likely.
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Recruit [79]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 18, 2019, 6:30 PM
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Two biased quotes from the article:
“ three of them (Clemson, LSU and Ohio State) are in this year’s playoff (along with Oklahoma) and Georgia and Alabama are regulars.”
“ “The lack of parity is the reason,” Farrell said. “Alabama and Clemson have won national titles, Ohio State has one and Georgia has been a play away. ”
One trip to the playoff does not make Georgia a “regular” and “a play away” = a loss, same as
Oregon. UGA is only as “elite” as Oregon, and arguably even less because Oregon also played for a BCS championship. UGA doesn’t deserve to keep being mentioned in the same category as Clemson, Bama, and OSU.
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MVP [533]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 19, 2019, 1:51 AM
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Weathervane fan, 85 ship limit 4 all. Still you're upset about our recruiting success despite our disadvantages. Surprise, you are also a fan of an 8 team playoff when we have made the cut every year but one & the next 5 years we look like a good bet. Hopefully you are a trolling fan of another team.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 19, 2019, 8:04 PM
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I am a Clemson fan and I still want to see a better, more competitive college football situation.
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All-In [38422]
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Re: Here's an interesting article
Dec 19, 2019, 7:54 PM
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UGA didn't get 6 .
We did though 
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