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Topic: Getting a definition of success for Tiger basketball is like
Replies: 21   Last Post: Mar 6, 2020 7:29 PM by: lthom022®
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Getting a definition of success for Tiger basketball is like

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Mar 6, 2020 10:41 AM
 

getting a definition of gun control. There is no consensus. Here is mine. Would love to see others. "If you don't reach for the sky you will never get off the ground."


Top half of acc every year
NCAA tourney most years
NIT if not in NCAA’s
and i don’t think it is unreasonable to expect to be better than most of the 100++ teams out there, therefore in the top 25 of rankings every year

2020 white level member

Re: Getting a definition of success for Tiger basketball is like

[2]
Posted: Mar 6, 2020 10:45 AM
 

reasonable goals. I dont know what we are reaching for but it seems to screw up our jump shots and ft's

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Success is


Posted: Mar 6, 2020 10:55 AM
 

Being a Clemson man. It’s really that simple. It’s not about wins and loses. It’s about being a part of something great.

GO TIGERS.


Re: To quote and old joke- Success is


Posted: Mar 6, 2020 11:33 AM
 

fleeting and Fleet is an enema

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Re: Getting a definition of success for Tiger basketball is like


Posted: Mar 6, 2020 10:58 AM
 

Reaching is a foul in basketball, so we have stopped to avoid foul trouble.


Moving the goals up has to make shots harder from


Posted: Mar 6, 2020 5:17 PM
 

just about any spot on the floor. Maybe that's been our problem all along.

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Re: Getting a definition of success for Tiger basketball is like

[4]
Posted: Mar 6, 2020 10:57 AM
 

Just a few comments on your expectations.

In reference to #1 and #2:

In most years the ACC gets 7 or 8 teams in the NCAAT.

If you expect top half every year but NCAA just in most years, those things don't line up because top half gets you in the NCAAT every season until this year when we may actually finish top half and still not make it.

NIT if not in NCAAT is a very reasonable expectation that I agree with.

#4: While being in the top 25 definitely requires being better than most teams in the country, there are lots and lots of teams that are better than "most of the 100++" that are not ranked and we are one of those teams.

By your set of expectations, and with a win tonight, we will likely achieve 3 of your 4 expectations with making the NCAAT the only box not checked which by your own admission shouldn't be expected every season.

Do you consider this year to be positive year for the program or not?


2013-2014 we finished in the top half of the conference and

[1]
Posted: Mar 6, 2020 11:14 AM
 

didn't get in. That's the only year I can remember.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: 2013-2014 we finished in the top half of the conference and

[1]
Posted: Mar 6, 2020 11:21 AM
 

Last year we finished tied for 8th and would have had a really strong argument for getting into the NCAAT with a win in any number of our close losses.

I think much of this season's frustrations come from falling so short of last season's expectations.

Brownell should have been rebuilding this season while coming off of back to back NCAATs.

Instead the narrative is that, "BB is about to miss the tournament AGAIN".


That's a very good point

[2]
Posted: Mar 6, 2020 11:33 AM
 

And I still think that if we don't collapse in the 2nd half against NCSU in the ACCT we would've made the NCAA Tournament.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


The ACC is getting 3-4 teams in this year***


Posted: Mar 6, 2020 12:43 PM
 




Re: Getting a definition of success for Tiger basketball is like


Posted: Mar 6, 2020 3:45 PM
 

This year is reasonably good relative to the expectations for the year. I do not think it is good relative to what should be expected of D-1 major nationally known institution.
Re: my 1 and 2 you are right. I guess I was not thinking and talking mathematically. Thanks for checking in.

2020 white level member

MINIMUM of NCAA tournament 50% of the time.


Posted: Mar 6, 2020 11:31 AM
 

The clock starts in year two. No coach gets more than one "throw away" year at the beginning of their tenure.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: MINIMUM of NCAA tournament 50% of the time.

[1]
Posted: Mar 6, 2020 11:38 AM
 

The problem with starting that clock in year two is shown perfectly by the situation that Brownell had when coming in.

In his first season, he had enough good players left to make the NCAAT but OP's entire recruiting class bailed and a few key leftovers transferred.

He then spent years 2 and 3 with a team filled mostly with freshmen and sophomores who had no chance of competing with the juniors and seniors in the ACC.

This isn't always how things work in a coaching change, but that's how it happened to Brownell.

This is in no way a defense of what he did in years 4-7, but your desire for immediate success is not always a reality no matter how good the coach may be.


BB inherited a guaranteed NCAA Tournament Team that

[2]
Posted: Mar 6, 2020 11:43 AM
 

had been to 3 straight after 2 straight NIT appearances - a steady improvement every year.

All Brad had to do was use that success and the guarantee of his first team being an NCAA Tournament team as a springboard to good recruiting.

But, alas, he could not get it done.

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Yeah but facilities, which did not prevent us from 3

[2]
Posted: Mar 6, 2020 2:41 PM
 

straight NCAA appearances, all of a sudden deteriorated overnight to the point that they became an insurmountable obstacle.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


That wasn’t a guaranteed NCAA Tournament team.

[1]
Posted: Mar 6, 2020 5:39 PM
 

And did you not read the post you responded to? It wasn’t nearly as straightforward as you suggest.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Maybe you misunterstood me. I'm not saying that he'd

[1]
Posted: Mar 6, 2020 2:37 PM
 

have to make the tournament in year two, but year two would have to count as part of the record upon which he is evaluated and judged. In other words, when evaluating coach's performance, you couldn't say (like so many do with Brownell) that the first 7 years don't count, they can't be held against him. That is a steaming pile of crap. Instead, we would say that year one can be a throw away; we won't judge any coach on their first year, but in year 4 or 5, when we look back to evaluate the coach, it's totally fair to say "we didn't really improve much in year 2 or 3, and we still haven't made the NCAA tournament". Somehow, Brownell is exempt from that.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Gun control is easy... everyone with an AR


Posted: Mar 6, 2020 11:39 AM
 

Should hold it with both hands while shooting.

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Re: Gun control is easy... everyone with an AR

[1]
Posted: Mar 6, 2020 6:15 PM
 

I have two and refuse to put one down just to shoot the other.

2020 white level member

Sounds good to me.***


Posted: Mar 6, 2020 2:42 PM
 




Re: Getting a definition of success for Tiger basketball is like


Posted: Mar 6, 2020 7:29 PM
 

This is getting really interesting. None of my fellow tneters have offered up their definition of success like I did. Kinda like getting a definition of middle class or rich.
I am positive many of you have some parameters in mind. Love to hear yours?? i might then adjust mine.

2020 white level member

Replies: 21  

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