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110%er [7971]
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GOAT?
May 6, 2018, 10:34 PM
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Just curious.
Greatest NBA player of all time. [Results]
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Wilt |
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Jordan |
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Kobe |
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Lebron |
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Other |
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CU Guru [1273]
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Candidates for "other"...
May 6, 2018, 11:16 PM
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- Kareem
- Bill Russell
- Oscar Robertson
- Alex English
- Moses Malone
- Larry Bird
- Etc., etc., etc....
but probably in the final analysis, I would have to say Jordan.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Alex English?????????????????????????????????
May 7, 2018, 9:07 AM
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Careful with the fentanyl...its dangerous stuff.....:~)
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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All-TigerNet [10904]
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In his prime, Wilt dominated like no one else ever has
May 6, 2018, 11:27 PM
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Just didn't always have the best players around him.
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Orange Blooded [2819]
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No Kareem? That's my vote.
May 6, 2018, 11:29 PM
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Nm
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Kareem gets my vote too and I grew up a HUGE Celtics fan***
May 7, 2018, 9:05 AM
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110%er [6280]
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Re: GOAT?
May 7, 2018, 12:18 AM
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Lebron is imo but Magic should be on the list I believe.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: GOAT?
May 7, 2018, 12:23 AM
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Being only 25 I am just curious as to how much comp the Bulls had. Did any team compare to the Warriors lately or the Spurs a few years back? Jordan is without a doubt the greatest of his time and Lebron of his time. Different game and different styles so it is hard to say. Lebron can do things Jordan couldn't and Jordan could do things Lebron cannot. Both are special talents and we should be thankful.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Well the Bulls were the Warriors of that era
May 7, 2018, 12:37 PM
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Especially the 2nd run from 96-98. That team was stacked and full of perfect role players to fit around Jordan not to mention Scotty Pippen who was a HOFer in his own right.
Earlier on in Jordan's career there were some really, really good teams that blocked him from making the finals. In the East you had the Bird Celtics and later the Bad Boy Pistons, and out West was the Showtime Lakers. As the Celtics and Lakers aged the Pistons emerged. Those 3 teams combined to win 10/11 titles from 1980-1990. Jordan outlasted them though and the Bulls became a dynasty in 1991 winning 6 of the next 8 titles with the 2 losses coming in the years that MJ "retired" and played minor league baseball. At their peak, all of those teams were at least comparable to the Warriors.
As for the teams Jordan beat, they weren't on that level, but all of them were very good teams and had at least 1 HOFer. In 1991 he beat the Lakers although they were really at the end of their run at that point and Magic was about to retire. In 1992 he beat a really well balanced Blazers team led by Clyde Drexler. In 1993 they beat a stacked Suns teams that won 62 games, led the league in scoring at 113/game and featured Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson, and Dan Majerle. That team was a lot of fun to watch.
During the 2nd 3-peat he beat a really fun Sonics team that won 64 games behind Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton. That team could really score too, but were also pretty nasty defensively. Shawn Kemp was awesome. And then of course he beat the Jazz twice at the end. Jordan stopped both Carl Malone and John Stockton from winning titles. Those Jazz teams were really good and won 64 and 62 games, respectively.
None of those teams took the Bulls past 6 games.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Well the Bulls were the Warriors of that era
May 7, 2018, 12:48 PM
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Awesome post!! Thank you.
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CU Guru [1453]
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Re: Well the Bulls were the Warriors of that era
May 8, 2018, 12:02 AM
[ in reply to Well the Bulls were the Warriors of that era ] |
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You took me down memory lane. I loved NBA during that era growing up. I rarely watch it these days unless a game 6 or 7 play off. You know your stuff too!
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Legend [16132]
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The Blazers, Suns and Sonics were all loaded and at their
May 7, 2018, 4:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: GOAT? ] |
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peak
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All-Conference [439]
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Re: GOAT?
May 7, 2018, 5:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: GOAT? ] |
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Those 90s Knicks teams were really good. Couldn't get past Chicago.
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CU Guru [1453]
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Re: GOAT?
May 8, 2018, 12:04 AM
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Starks, Oakley, Mason, Ewing, etc!!!!
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110%er [7159]
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dude..... the Pistons, the Lakers, the Trailblazers,
May 8, 2018, 8:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: GOAT? ] |
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the Celtics, and even the Hawks had some good teams. Now theres like 3 teams that are good every year and its boring.
The game was much tougher back then and guys like Curry and Durant would be so beat up and frustrated they wouldn't be able to just sit outside and shoot 3's. They'd make them drive and Rick Mahorn and Bill Laimbeer would lay a forearm underneath their nose. Today's competition is monotonous, predictable, and safeguarded to protect the money makers. Its not the way basketball was and should be like it was played in the 80's and 90's.
I miss having those dynasties of teams that stuck together and didn't team up with each other but stay with who they came in with. Free Agency and money corrupted and destroyed the team aspect of the NBA and i've can't really get interested long enough to sustain being a fan of it.
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110%er [7159]
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the Knicks..you're right I forgot them and don't know how i
May 8, 2018, 8:34 AM
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did.
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Legend [17596]
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Most unstoppable? Wilt Chamberlain
May 7, 2018, 1:14 AM
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Not close. Russell and Jordan were greater champions due to better teams and Wilt's selfishness but no one could stop Wilt.
Chamberlain's Point and Rebound Averages for the First Nine Seasons
1959-60: Points: 37.6 Rebounds: 27.6 (Rookie Season, Won ROY and MVP)
1960-61: Points: 38.4 Rebounds: 27.2
1961-62: Points: 50.4 Rebounds: 25.7
1963-64: Points: 44.8 Rebounds: 24.3
1964-65: Points: 36.9 Rebounds: 22.3
1965-66: Points: 34.7 Rebounds: 22.9 (MVP)
1966-67: Points: 33.5 Rebounds: 24.6 (MVP)
1967-68: Points: 24.3 Rebounds: 23.8 (MVP and Led the League in Assists with 8.6)
Only player in NBA history to score more than 4,000 (4029) points in a season (50.4 PPG in the 1961-62 season) while also averaging 25.7 RPG that year (2052 total rebounds)
Led the league in scoring seven years in a row. He was league’s top rebounder in 11 of his 14 seasons.
"You obviously never saw Wilt Chamberlain play who undoubtedly was the greatest scorer this game has ever known. When did MJ ever average 50.4 points per game plus 25.7 rebounds? (Wilt in the 1962 season when blocked shot statistics were not kept). We will never accurately know how many shots Wilt blocked. Oh, by the way in 1967 and 68, Wilt was a league leader in assists. Did MJ ever score 100 points in a game? How many times did MJ score more than 60 points in a game? MJ led the league in scoring in consecutive seasons for 10 years but he did this in an NBA that eventually expanded into 30 teams vs. when Wilt played and there were only 8 teams."
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in an open letter to Scottie Pippen after Scottie Pippen referred to Michael Jordan and Lebron James as the greatest scorer and greatest player, respectively.
"When challenged, Wilt could do almost anything he wanted. In 1961 a new star named Walt Bellamy came into the league. Bellamy was 6-foot-11, and was scoring 30 points a game. First time they played against each other, they met at half court. Bellamy said, 'Hello, Mr. Chamberlain. I'm Walter Bellamy.' Chamberlain reached for Bellamy's hand and said, "Hello, Walter. You won't get a shot off in the first half." Wilt then blocked Bellamy's first nine shots. At the start of the second half Wilt said to Bellamy, 'Okay, Walter. Now you can play.'"
In Denver, Nugget Coach Dan Issel said, "As I grew up, Wilt the Stilt was the player. Just the things he was able to do. I guess one year they told him he couldn't make as much money as he wanted because he couldn't pass the ball, so he went out and led the league in assists. "Watching Wilt, you always kind of got the idea he was just playing with people. That he was on cruise control and still 10 times better than anybody else that was playing at that time."
Darrall Imhoff, who as a 6-foot-10 rookie center for the New York Knicks had the misfortune of guarding Chamberlain during his 100-point game in 1962, said, "I spent 12 years in his armpits, and I always carried that 100-point game on my shoulders. "After I got my third foul, I said to one of the officials, Willy Smith, 'Why don't you just give him 100 points and we'll all go home?' Well, we did." Two nights later, at Madison Square Garden, Chamberlain tried to go for the century mark again. But Imhoff 'held' him to 54 points. The fans gave Imhoff a standing ovation. "He was an amazing, strong man," Imhoff said. "I always said the greatest record he ever held wasn't 100 points, but his 55 rebounds against Bill Russell. Those two players changed the whole game of basketball. The game just took an entire step up to the next level."
"The greatest play I've ever seen was one of the last games of the 1966-67 season and were playing Baltimore. We [Philadelphia] were going for the best record in NBA history. There was a play earlier in the game where Gus Johnson had dunked one over Wilt. Gus was a very strong player. I weighed 220 pounds, and with one hand Gus could push me out of the lane. The man was a physical specimen [6-foot-6, 230 pounds], all muscle. He loved to dunk and was a very colorful player. When he slammed it on Wilt, he really threw it down, and you could tell that Wilt didn't like it one bit.
Later in the game, Gus was out on the fast break, and the only man between him and the basket was Wilt. He was goin to dunk on Wilt--again. Gus cupped the ball and took off--he had a perfect angle for a slam. Wilt went up and with one hand he grabbed the ball--cleanly! Then he took the ball and shoved it right back into Gus, drilling Gus into the floor with the basketball.
Gus was flattened and they carried him out. It turned out that Gus Johnson was the only player in NBA history to suffer a dislocated shoulder from a blocked shot."
"One-on-one he [Wilt] would've murdered Russell and everyone. But playing five-on-five, Wilt was consigned to a specific role because of his ability to score so easily, whereas the Celtics fit Russell into their team concept better."
--Red Holzman, A View form the Bench, p. 78
"I still remember the time when one of our strongest men, Gene Conley, decided to fight Chamberlain for the ball. He grabbed it and hung on and Chamberlain just lifted him and ball right up towards the rim." -- Bill Russell Go up For Glory, p.126.
"When I coached the San Francisco Warriors, I thought Al Attles was the fastest guy on our team--by far. We used to gamble a lot--which player could jump the highest and run the fastest. So I set up a series of races, baseline to baseline. In the finals, it was Wilt and Al Attles and Wilt just blew past him. I'm convinced that Wilt Chamberlain is one of the greatest all-around athletes the world has ever seen." --Alex Hannum,
“After I played him for the first time, I said 'Let's see. He's four or five inches taller. He's 40 or 50 pounds heavier. His vertical leap is at least as good as mine. He can get up and down the floor as well as I can. And he's smart. The real problem with all this is I have to show up.'”
--Bill Russell, on Wilt Chamberlain
Of note is the fact Wilt scored 62 points in a game against Russell on January 14, 1962 in Boston, and scored more than 50 points against him in six other games. The most points Russell ever scored against Wilt? 37. Also, Russell only scored more than 30 against Wilt two other times.
Many don’t know it, but Wilt used to lift weights with Arnold Schwarzenegger and got his bench press up to over 500 lbs. He has been credited by many as having been able to bench as much as 500 pounds even during his college days, but there are not very many credible sources for this. He was a world class track and field star during those days though, competing in the 440, shot put, broad jump, and high jump.
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Legend [16779]
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Bill Russell's
May 7, 2018, 7:21 AM
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Humility and sense of humor are classic. I wish there was more of 'him' in sports today.
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110%er [6280]
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All-In [48078]
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I am biased to Jordan, but it's between....
May 7, 2018, 7:25 AM
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Jordan and Lebron and nobody else should be mentioned in the conversation.
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Oculus Spirit [83073]
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Come on.***
May 7, 2018, 8:26 AM
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110%er [6280]
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Heisman Winner [134210]
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All-TigerNet [10904]
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He never lost a championship, WHEN he made it to the finals
May 7, 2018, 8:46 AM
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He failed to make the finals 10 or 12 times in his career!
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Heisman Winner [134210]
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Re: He never lost a championship, WHEN he made it to the finals
May 7, 2018, 9:33 AM
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your point is true. But once he figured out how to get there, he never lost. May have won eight in a row if he didn't try baseball.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: I am biased to Jordan, but it's between....
May 7, 2018, 9:43 AM
[ in reply to Re: I am biased to Jordan, but it's between.... ] |
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Were the teams Jordan beat better than the ones LBJ has played and were Jordans teams better than LBJs?
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All-In [48078]
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I think Jordan beat better teams, but I think Lebron...
May 7, 2018, 10:02 AM
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did some amazing things with weak supporting casts. Although the East has sucked generally while Lebron has been in the East and his road to the Finals is general easier.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: I think Jordan beat better teams, but I think Lebron...
May 7, 2018, 10:32 AM
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What teams has Jordan beat that were better than the Warriors? Just wondering I didn't watch as I was too young then.
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110%er [7723]
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Nobody. The Warriors would have smashed them.
May 7, 2018, 11:59 AM
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Steph and Durant might both be in the Top 5 ever. They are definitely 2 of the most unstoppable offensive forces to ever walk this planet.
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All-In [48078]
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Durant wasn't there yer, so i would go...
May 7, 2018, 4:25 PM
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You think those teams were better than the Spurs?
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Legend [16132]
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Better than the Spurs team that choked away Game 6***
May 7, 2018, 5:06 PM
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Better than the Spurs team that choked away Game 6***
May 7, 2018, 5:21 PM
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Idk it is so hard to compare teams from different eras. It is amazing what Jordan and James have done and I respect them and all the greats
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Legend [16132]
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Kawhi was a 2 year vet and Duncan was playing on one leg***
May 7, 2018, 5:26 PM
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110%er [7159]
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I'll say Lebron is the most physically gifted player i've
May 8, 2018, 8:41 AM
[ in reply to I am biased to Jordan, but it's between.... ] |
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seen. I mean he's 6-8, 275 and is fast. But those are physical traits that create his dominance today. Skill wise he's probably more in the top 20. He's just big and fast so he can drive past and jump over people. His shot is average and ball handling is average. But he can rebound well, pass well, and out physical people. Kinda like Wilt did in his heyday. Not sure he's the best ever because of skillset more like physical dominance.
But if he had to go against the Pistons or the Knicks back in the day they'd have him so flustered and beat up he'd probably quit.
Jordan, Isaiah, kareem, Magic, Bird and even Dominique to an extent were basketball players. Not the biggest, strongest, fastest but got more results than anyone else and can/could play with anyone today, yesterday or tomorrow.
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Oculus Spirit [83073]
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Jordan. Russell #2***
May 7, 2018, 8:25 AM
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Jordan. Russell #2
May 7, 2018, 10:14 AM
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I wouldn't have Russell in my top 10 as far as who I really think is better. I would take Kevin Durant over him. Moses Malone would have probably even thrown Russell around at the 5 position. Maybe that is a stretch, but it wouldn't surprise me. He played against weak talent generally and an era of the NBA with weaker talent. Bob Hurley would probably be Bob Cousy back then. Russell would be a PF today and would be nothing like he was back then. He played mainly against white guys. If we are going by champnships etc, then of course he is there, but realistically he isn't a top 2 player and probably not even close. ANthony Davis is probably way better..
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All-In [48078]
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Kind of like how Sammy Watkins will more than...
May 7, 2018, 10:17 AM
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never likely make the NFL HOF, is probably a much better player than HOP WR Crazy Legs Hirsch.
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Legend [16132]
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Sammy won't make the HOF because he can't stay healthy
May 7, 2018, 5:10 PM
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long enough produce like a HOFer
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Oculus Spirit [83073]
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Well, yea, but there are many guards today who
May 7, 2018, 10:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: Jordan. Russell #2 ] |
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better than Jordan physically because of difference in eras.
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Mascot [16]
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Re: GOAT?
May 7, 2018, 8:54 AM
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All of these are great players but a GOAT is an all-around player with leadership qualities. Therefore, my list is to compare Lebron, Kobe, and Michael from inception to 30 years old since they finished school [or not] and entered the NBA at different ages. Of the major 9 offensive and defensive categories we all mostly use: 1] Lebron led 3 catagories 2] Kobe tied for one category 3] ..and Michael led in or tied in 6 categories. Lebron falls woefully short on defense, by comparison as the other two have been on a record tying 9 all-defensive teams. Michael averaged 5 and 7 more ppg respectively and more steals.Lebron's winning categories?: 1] One more minute per game than Michael 2]one more rebound per game than Michael 3] 1 more assist per game than Michael. A quick check here shows non superlatives in the various other players although they are great players. One final comment about M.J. is that he had the fire in his belly for the big game and the bid play. Kobe was similar in that respect. Lebron does sometimes but, sometimes it appears that he mentally disappears, particularly on defense. For BASKETBALL, I LIKE MIKE!
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110%er [7159]
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just think if Micheal was 6'-8" and 275 lbs...
May 8, 2018, 8:45 AM
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Jordan was average size wise. Lebron is a freak of nature size wise. But Jordan was a freak of nature skill wise while Lebron is more on the average size. He dominates b/c he's just bigger than those who end up guarding him.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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I don't know about all defensive team selections, but
May 8, 2018, 9:03 AM
[ in reply to Re: GOAT? ] |
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in terms of actual defensive abilities i would take Lebron in his prime over Kobe in his prime any day. Lebron's defense has really fallen off in recent years, but there was a time he could guard all 5 positions on the court and do it well. That's an extremely valuable asset to have on the team.
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All-In [40100]
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Hard for me to go against Jordan but grew up in that era.
May 7, 2018, 9:27 AM
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He was just magnificent made others better around him. Just won and his game winning shot percentage had to be off the charts.
Now, I will admit slow to the Lebron backing. Impressive human being. But had a chance to watch the first half last playoff game and that game winning shot was just unbelievable. I now get why he’s in the discussion and yes I realize I was slow to get there. Anyone reading this who hasn’t seen the shot he took with one second to win that last playoff game needs to watch it.
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All-In [44032]
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Wilt, and it isn't even close.
May 7, 2018, 10:54 AM
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I would put Kareem #2, and Jordan #3. LeBron can make a case for #3 ahead of Jordan though.
Jordan is the answer most will give, because everyone saw him play. Not only that, but Jordan came through during the time when endorsement deals skyrocketed. He became the face of the NBA (as well as of Nike, McDonald's, etc.). Don't get me wrong, he was a great player, but his performances and entire body of work don't compare to Wilt's.
Everyone is quick to dismiss Wilt's stats, saying "the game was different then." Yes, it was. But averaging 50 points and 25 rebounds in a season, and probably a dozen blocks as well (if they kept track of them then) is insane. Would he put up those numbers today? Probably not on a consistent basis, but you can rest assured that he would've more than held his own against guys like Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, etc. Heck, he put up huge numbers against Bill Russell, who is widely considered to be the best defensive player in NBA history. So for me, the idea that Wilt never played against any decent competition is unfair. He was just that good that he made the guys he played against seem that inferior.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Well it's definitely not Kobe
May 7, 2018, 11:46 AM
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I think it's Jordan #1 and Lebron #2 for me. Kobe would be around 10th on my list. Too many other great players who's game i liked more than Kobe's. Duncan, Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Bird, etc.
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All-In [28363]
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mj
May 7, 2018, 11:48 AM
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and its not close
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110%er [7723]
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Lebron would beat MJ 1v1
May 7, 2018, 12:04 PM
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And it might not be fair.
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All-In [28363]
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Re: Lebron would beat MJ 1v1
May 7, 2018, 12:21 PM
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now maybe - mj was the best because not only was the best offensive player but he was the best defender in the league. he is the best of all time and the only one close is kobe. lebron is great - but he is no michael.
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110%er [7723]
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LOL
May 7, 2018, 12:38 PM
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He wasn't even the best defender on his team.
Kobe was one of the worst defenders in the league during his career. Lebron is the only player in the history of the game that can guard all 5 positions.
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All-In [28363]
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Re: LOL
May 7, 2018, 12:55 PM
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mike - the real 23
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110%er [7723]
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Re: LOL
May 7, 2018, 1:00 PM
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Pippen was a better defender than MJ.
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All-In [28363]
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Re: LOL
May 7, 2018, 1:14 PM
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Michael Jordan is one of four players to have won both an MVP and a Defensive Player of the Year award in their career - end quote.
fun fact - lebron not on that list
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110%er [7723]
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Re: LOL
May 7, 2018, 1:19 PM
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Popularity awards aside, Pippen is widely considered a better defender than Michael. He was always the one matched up against the other team's best player.
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Legend [16132]
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he shut down Magic in 91***
May 7, 2018, 5:14 PM
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110%er [6280]
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Re: LOL
May 7, 2018, 2:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: LOL ] |
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So if KD, Kobe, Steph, Magic, Larry, etc. had the ball with under 10 seconds to go you would rather have MJ on them than LBJ??
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All-In [28363]
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Re: LOL
May 7, 2018, 3:17 PM
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uh..yeah
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110%er [6280]
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Re: LOL
May 7, 2018, 4:27 PM
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No way lol. Maybe on Curry bout MJ could not stop KD.
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All-In [28363]
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Re: LOL
May 7, 2018, 4:43 PM
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ok
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All-In [28363]
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Re: LOL
May 7, 2018, 4:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: LOL ] |
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mike can be compared to no one. end of sentence.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: LOL
May 7, 2018, 7:41 PM
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Agreed and same goes for Lebron. They are too different but people will always debate who is better because they are both greats of their time in the same sport.
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Legend [16132]
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Shane Battier and Tony Allen did it, why can't MJ?***
May 7, 2018, 5:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: LOL ] |
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Shane Battier and Tony Allen did it, why can't MJ?***
May 7, 2018, 6:20 PM
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Are you talking about KD? He averaged 30 ppg against the heat in the finals.
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Legend [16132]
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Pippen was the best perimeter defender I have ever seen,
May 7, 2018, 5:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: LOL ] |
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Kawhi has shown glimpses, but Pip was the one-man full court press
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Legend [16132]
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Pippen was a better defender than Jordan***
May 7, 2018, 5:11 PM
[ in reply to LOL ] |
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Lebron would beat MJ 1v1
May 7, 2018, 12:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: Lebron would beat MJ 1v1 ] |
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Lebron would deff beat MJ and Kobe 1v1 imo but NBA isn't 1v1 so idk if that is how you can compare who is better.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Probably, but that doesn't really prove anything at all
May 7, 2018, 3:37 PM
[ in reply to Lebron would beat MJ 1v1 ] |
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The NBA isn't a 1v1 league.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Probably, but that doesn't really prove anything at all
May 7, 2018, 4:29 PM
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Yea that is what I was saying. Most of these players are so different it is hard to compare.
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Legend [16132]
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Nope, LeBron is too mentally weak to take Jordan 1 on 1,
May 7, 2018, 5:08 PM
[ in reply to Lebron would beat MJ 1v1 ] |
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Jordan would get into his head and it would be over
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Nope, LeBron is too mentally weak to take Jordan 1 on 1,
May 7, 2018, 6:36 PM
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Please explain how he is mentally weak.
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Orange Blooded [4964]
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LeBron - He's on pace for a 30K 10K 10K career
May 7, 2018, 12:07 PM
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and poised to unseat Kareem Abdul-Jabbar as the all-time scoring leader.
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110%er [7723]
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Lebron would be the best player at any era.
May 7, 2018, 12:14 PM
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Michael would have a very difficult time playing in this current league due to more advanced defensive schemes, much more athletic defenders, and a longer 3-point line. The only advantage to playing in this time is the lack of hand-checking... but how can anybody say that Lebron wouldn't have benefited massively from a more physical game. He is the most physical player in the entire league.
Lebron also didn't take time off to rest his body and has faced much better players in their PRIME. MJ managed to avoid basically all of the elite players in the finals during their prime.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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I'm a Lebron fan, but that's not even the issue here
May 7, 2018, 3:32 PM
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Your MJ argument is just bad. To say that the player widely acknowledged as the GOAT would have a "very difficult time playing in this current league" is just ridiculous.
1) Even if MJ from the early to mid 90s came back right now, completely unchanged, he would be a darn good player. If you watched him play I'm not sure how you could say otherwise.
2) Do you not think a play of that caliber could adapt his game? Hell he did it during his own career. As his athleticism slowly dwindled he developed a different game focused more on back-to-the-basket play and that unstoppable turnaround jumper. Something tells me he would've figured out a way to play in this current era of basketball.
3) If MJ played today he would have access to the same advancements in fitness, diet, medicine, etc that modern players have. That's one thing that bugs me about the argument that all greats from previous eras would suck now because they were too skinny or whatever. Those guys would probably just have 20 more lbs of muscle if they played today.
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All-In [48078]
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Moreover, the defense was tougher when Jordan played.****
May 7, 2018, 4:39 PM
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All-In [28363]
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exactly^^***
May 7, 2018, 4:44 PM
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Legend [16132]
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### are you talking about? LeBron just did a victory lap for
May 7, 2018, 5:21 PM
[ in reply to Lebron would be the best player at any era. ] |
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playing an entire season...His first...EVER...He takes time off all the time...Every time MJ took the court, he played his hardest because he wanted to put on a show for the fans, most of whom would only see him once in person....LeBron can't hold his jock on that
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Orange Blooded [2877]
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This needs to be broken down per position
May 7, 2018, 12:16 PM
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It’s Like comparing
Brett Favre
Adrian Peterson
Jerry Rice
Ronnie Lott
And Reggie White to each other
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110%er [6280]
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Re: This needs to be broken down per position
May 7, 2018, 12:55 PM
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I was thinking the same thing. Lebron can play all the positions tho. Magic maybe as well.
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All-Conference [439]
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Re: This needs to be broken down per position
May 7, 2018, 5:20 PM
[ in reply to This needs to be broken down per position ] |
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I argued that point with a friend of mine once. It's not the same as comparing football players. For one, there's only 5 positions instead of the 11-ish you have in football if you go with OL, DE, LB, etc. And unlike football, every player on a basketball court plays both offense and defense and has the ability to do everything that shows up on a stat sheet. It's much easier to say that Player X is the best overall basketball player of all time than saying that Player Y is the best overall football player of all time because football is much more specialized.
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All-Pro [658]
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Re: GOAT?
May 7, 2018, 12:18 PM
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Lew Alcinder
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CU Medallion [55734]
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Hate to say it but I am starting to lean toward Lebron.***
May 7, 2018, 12:22 PM
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Hall of Famer [24966]
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Kobe shouldn't be in that list
May 7, 2018, 12:28 PM
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he is on a 2nd tier. he was a transitional star between MJ and Lebron
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Orange Blooded [3650]
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Re: GOAT? MJ even though he went to a classless university***
May 7, 2018, 2:42 PM
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All-In [44032]
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Let's look at player efficiency rating.
May 7, 2018, 3:09 PM
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Player efficiency rating (PER) looks at loads of statistics and metrics. Here are the all-time best players according to this:
1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. David Robinson
5. Wilt Chamberlain
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html
PER isn't a perfect metric, but it's pretty fascinating. From the developer:
"The PER sums up all of a player's positive accomplishments, subtracts the negative accomplishments, and returns a per-minute rating of a player's performance."
Pretty fascinating way to look at player performance. David Robinson is probably the guy in the top 5 who many here are surprised to see, but the guy was a force on both ends. If his supporting cast had been better (pre-Duncan), he probably would've won at least one if not several more rings (he has two, thanks to Duncan).
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All-Conference [439]
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Re: Let's look at player efficiency rating.
May 7, 2018, 5:15 PM
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Granted, a lot of it has to do with just sheer size, but I can only imagine the numbers Shaq would've put up if he'd had a Jordan/Bryant level attitude. From the mid 90s to the mid 2000s, the only person that could stop Shaq from scoring whenever he wanted was Shaq.
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110%er [6280]
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All-In [44032]
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I couldn't stand him, but Shaq is absolutely a top 5 center.
May 8, 2018, 9:43 PM
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I don't see how anyone could keep him off that list.
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All-Conference [439]
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Re: GOAT?
May 7, 2018, 5:13 PM
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Wish we could've seen the numbers McGrady would've had if his body hadn't broken down. Kobe rates him as the toughest defensive assignment he ever had.
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All-TigerNet [11188]
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Re: GOAT?
May 7, 2018, 5:18 PM
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People forget that Jordan would have won eight straight championships, had his father not been murdered. He accomplished this by staying in Chicago, and not by moving to another team and stacking the deck with elite players at their respective positions.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: GOAT?
May 8, 2018, 7:51 AM
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Take away Jordan and Lebron and most of the Bulls teams were better than the Heat teams. So I don't understand what you are trying to say. He Cleveland was anything like Chicago in the 90s I highly doubt Lebron would have ever left.
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Oculus Spirit [93658]
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Piston Pete made basketball what it is today.
May 7, 2018, 9:35 PM
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He did the stuff everybody is doing when no one was doing it. Byrd is my favorite player. He played hurt, laid on the floor during timeouts and half time to get his back ready to play when the clock started again. I've seen him shoot and hit shots after being knocked down and falling as far as two feet from the hardwood. I Magic Johnson was almost unstoppable. Kirk Rambis was another tough as leather guy.
The list of great players is too long for me to pick so I'll stick with Pistol.
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Legend [19944]
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Cool so a bunch of white guys, thanks for sharing
May 8, 2018, 12:07 AM
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BTW it's Pistol Pete, not Piston Pete.
Bird, not Byrd.
And Kurt Rambis, not Kirk.
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Hall of Famer [23693]
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HAHAHAHAHA! You sure made HIM look foolish.
May 8, 2018, 8:22 AM
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BTW, I’m a little unclear on when Magic Johnson turned white.
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Legend [19944]
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Re: HAHAHAHAHA! You sure made HIM look foolish.
May 8, 2018, 10:17 AM
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No, I simply pointed out what would be obvious to most: a list that is 75% white when the NBA itself is 75% black.
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Oculus Spirit [93658]
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The thread starter listed all black players.
May 9, 2018, 5:00 PM
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I had to look back to check because I named off some that weren't on the list including Magic, who by the way I spelled correctly. You're suggesting I'm a racist or something for not listing a black player ignores the fact that I had just read the OP without taking note of skin color.
Your PC sensitivity so distracted you that you missed my point, brother. The point is that picking the greatest all time is nearly impossible so I listed just a scrap sample of my favorites. I happened to follow the lakers and celtics for a period in the 1980s. I heard the names and saw some games but I've cared as much about the NBA as I do about watching grass grow since.
I have no issue with you calling me a racist but it might be to your benefit to take my comments and consider that I'm replying to someone who has posted something that relates to context of my post. It makes you appear to lack comprehension when you go off on a tangent with no point of intersection.
I appreciate you pointing out my spelling errors thought I doubt you'd understand why I can't spell. If you like I'd share the story of my full blooded Cherokee great grandmother teach me to memorize the spelling of words when I was 4 years old. She wasn't hooked on phonics, I reckon.
My favorite athlete all time is Jim Thorpe. Now you can remove all doubt about me being a racist cause I am. Watch your wig, casper.
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