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Hall of Famer [20538]
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For the Gamecocks who insist Clemson is cheating....
Nov 29, 2017, 9:24 AM
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...let's put that to the acid test, shall we?
In 2015-2016, Clemson finished 14-1, ACC Champs, won the Orange Bowl and opening-round playoff aagainst Oklahoma, and lost to Alabama in the National Championship Game. On the field: the clear #2 in the nation. Our recruiting class in 2016 per Rivals.com: #6 overall, four spots below our on-the-field performance. We also signed 22 guys that year.
In 2016-2017, Clemson again finsihed 14-1, ACC Champs, won the Fiesta Bowl (31-0!) against Ohio State, and then beat Alabama in the National Championship Game. On the field we were the clear #1 in the nation. Our recruiting class in 2017 per Rivals.com: #22 overall. We also signed just 14 guys this past year.
In 2017-2018, thus far, Clemson is 11-1, is playing for the ACC title once again, and is presently ranked #1 in the nation per the Playoff Committee. Our current recruiting class? It stands at #34 overall per Rivals.com, and has just 11 guys currently committed.
This "Clemson is recruiting at an elite level" stuff is garbage, actually. Clemson's actually recruiting far below where you'd expect a team that keeps playing for national championships and may actually be in the process of displacing Alabama as college football's superpower. Both in terms of star ratings, and numbers. Only Stanford approaches Clemson in terms of number of players signed/committed the last 3 years (they signed 39 to our 36 2016-2017, and have just 10 committed this year)...the bottom line is that Clemson is signing the smallest, most selective classes in the country...and those guys are staying in the program until they graduate or depart for the NFL. (Or both.)
We don't have exceptional recruiting. We aren't marching an army of 5-stars in from every corner of the US. We haven't approached Alabama or even FSU in terms of recruiting rankings over the last three years. In fact, Dabo has had only two recruiting classes the recruitniks really rated highly: his 2011 class ranked #8 overall (and we signed 29 guys that year, a major abnormality for us), and the 2015 class, which Rivals.com ranked fourth overall (and again we signed 25 guys, again a major abnormality.) The other years - modest rankings (averaging about 13th-14th overall, pretty consistently), and usually modest numbers as well.
What we actually have is exceptional evaluation, exceptional retention, and exceptional player development. We seemingly hit on most every kid we take. Our "hit rate" is actually nothing short of sensational. We hit on 5-stars; we hit on 3-star developmental prospects; we hit on walk-ons. Go through our lengthy list of recent NFL draftees and you'll see kids from every spectrum of the recruiting rankings.
As ever, bottom line is, we aren't winning National Signing Day. We're just winning most every other day.
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CU Guru [1676]
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Re: For the Gamecocks who insist Clemson is cheating....
Nov 29, 2017, 9:27 AM
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I think that is the definition of recruiting at an elite level
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All-In [30775]
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Wait... you think they say that stuff because it's true?
Nov 29, 2017, 9:27 AM
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They say it because they can't say anything else. Too hard for them to just take a loss and move on. They certainly weren't
questioning Dabo's recruiting ethics during the 5peat.
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Hall of Famer [23108]
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As I've told many Clucking Gamehens
Nov 29, 2017, 9:34 AM
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If Clemson was cheating, enough $$$$ would have been found for DW4 to stay for Clemson to be marching over everyone back to the NC this year.
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Oculus Spirit [80179]
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to add to that, the team does a great job at buying into
Nov 29, 2017, 9:44 AM
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what Dabo tells them. They believe in his vision and except for a miscue every once in a while he has them motivated just about every game.
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Varsity [217]
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Re: For the Gamecocks who insist Clemson is cheating....
Nov 29, 2017, 9:53 AM
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Culture eats strategy for breakfast, lunch and dinner...
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Using Rivals overall ranking on any class not "signing" 20
Nov 29, 2017, 10:00 AM
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is lacking.
Their total points ranking takes into account the top 20 recruits from each class - they also provide an average which helps "normalize" schools that take less than 20 as Clemson did in 2017 & may again this cycle.
2015 4th overall
2016 6th overall
2017 4th average
2018 5th average current
That's good stuff.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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that's an elite level.. I don't care what
Nov 29, 2017, 12:40 PM
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quozzel or GWPTiger® says
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Orange Blooded [2702]
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I don’t often disagree with you Q, but...
Nov 29, 2017, 10:09 AM
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We recruit at a very high level. The facts you are putting out are the issue. Recruiting sites are a very poor judge of talent. Not only that, but the way they calculate the rankings is whack. Like signing 35 guys 3 star guys counts the same as a 20 guy 4 star class.
It all comes back to the evaluation process you mentioned. We get great players who fit the system, on and off the field. That’s why we don’t miss. These kids are the hard workers. The ones that don’t flunk out of school. The ones willing to accept coaching. It’s all part of trying to be “the best”.
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110%er [8244]
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Recruiting sites
Nov 29, 2017, 10:26 AM
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are just like the same so-called college football experts
that would say DW4 was the best player yet not vote for
him to receive the Heisman
or the ones who put our Tigers on up-set alert vs the coots/cockerels
Go back and look at the AP & Coaches poles 1st week 2017 where are the
top 20 teams now
One who had our Tigers on up-set alert said Monday if Dabo had not
put the brakes on the score could have been 50+ to 0
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Orange Blooded [2594]
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Re: For the Gamecocks who insist Clemson is cheating....
Nov 29, 2017, 10:14 AM
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Clemson recruits character and potential. They have a awesome ability to find the hidden gems.
GO TIGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Legend [16489]
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There you go being logical again. Not going to work with
Nov 29, 2017, 10:17 AM
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the target audience for you post!
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110%er [6858]
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Recruiting rankings are bunk
Nov 29, 2017, 10:32 AM
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Our classes dont rank high because we havent been taking many players over the last several classes. Sort the rankings by average star rating and its a whole new story.
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Starter [375]
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Re: For the Gamecocks who insist Clemson is cheating....
Nov 29, 2017, 10:52 AM
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agree with your overall point, but rivals recruiting rankings are garbage. 24/7 and espn consistently have us ranked higher every year. Rivals places too much emphasis on the number of commits, not the quality.
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All-In [42119]
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They don't want to admit, either...
Nov 29, 2017, 11:35 AM
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That during that five year run with Spurrier, they were one of the worst cheaters in college football, and the NCAA proved it. Their recruiting magically went downhill when the NCAA told em to cut it out.
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CU Guru [1163]
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if they want to see cheating, then look at their basketball program
Nov 29, 2017, 11:37 AM
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It gets me that they think that Clemson is cheating because we have had some on the field success lately. Okay. Does that mean that their women’s basketball team is cheating (like their men)? Stupid trolls
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110%er [5461]
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And Clemson's recruits are also from good families...
Nov 29, 2017, 12:28 PM
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...that are least likely to solicit or accept money.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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But, but, we got that church building us a training
Nov 29, 2017, 12:42 PM
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facility, and Venables buying everyone trucks!
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CU Guru [1237]
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Re: For the Gamecocks who insist Clemson is cheating....
Nov 29, 2017, 12:47 PM
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What a great post; factual and right on the money!
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110%er [5072]
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Re: For the Gamecocks who insist Clemson is cheating....
Nov 29, 2017, 1:05 PM
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I think it's natural to want to try and downplay the success of your rival. That ranked team your rival just beat...they were overrated anyway. That 5 star recruit your rival just got...he's overrated, and not as good as the 3 star player you got at the same position. That other game your rival just won...they got some lucky calls, and the other team dropped a bunch of passes.
We all do that sort of thing, but eventually you have to tip your hat, or you just sound like an idiot. A guy I went to high school with is still posting on FB about how Clemson benefits from playing in the ACC, and not having to play more than 1-2 good teams per year. If you point out to him that even outside of the ACC during this run of success, Clemson has beaten Georgia, LSU, Ohio State twice, Auburn 4 times, Oklahoma twice, ND, and that they beat Alabama once and played them right down to the final play another time, he makes excuses that many of those teams were overrated, or that it's not that hard for Clemson to get up for only 1-2 games per year.
He of course won't admit that the SEC is horrible right now. I've also never liked accusing other programs of cheating. I hate seeing it even from our fanbase when a recruit picks someone else over us. Sure, maybe sometimes something went on behind the scenes, but there are other good programs as well, and good recruiters on other staffs too. I've just always thought it makes someone sound childish when they react by saying someone else cheated unless there is actual proof to go along with it.
All this is right up there with the few South Carolina fans who still claim Dabo isn't a good coach. I always respond by telling them they must really think Clemson is a very special place then since we're doing all of this winning with a bad coach. Just imagine how great we'd be with someone who knew what they were doing.
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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We are recruiting on an elite level. We just don't have
Nov 29, 2017, 1:09 PM
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enough spots to sign enough to be ranked as elite.
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All-TigerNet [12270]
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so what you're saying is, dabo and company selectively
Nov 29, 2017, 1:16 PM
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recruit young men who have the potential to excel not only on the field but in the classroom also, then develop them into outstanding student/athletes, right? that is a rarity in college football now days.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: For the Gamecocks who insist Clemson is cheating....
Nov 29, 2017, 1:18 PM
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They also don't want to admit that our coaches are great recruiters. The most famous recruit Dabo got as an assistant was CJ Spiller. I think most on here have heard the story of how Dabo got Spiller to write down on one of his business cards that he promised to make an official visit to Clemson, and how Dabo still has that card framed in his office. That seems so simple of course, but my point is that really seemed to make a connection with Spiller, and they are still great friends to this day. I'm not saying Spiller would come out and say Dabo paid him if he had, but that story paints a picture of a great recruiting pitch by Dabo, and I don't think any person would listen to Spiller talk about his recruitment and think anything illegal happened.
I spoke with a dad of a recent former Clemson player who I'm not going to name. I forget the details of how or why, but basically in the offseason some of our players were in Florida for some sort of camp, and some South Carolina players were present as well. Jeff Scott who wasn't part of the camp came by just to visit his players, and the dad spoke of how genuine the relationship between Scott and his players were. He said they hugged, smiled, and joked around. The dad said that once Scott left, some of the South Carolina players came over to the Clemson players and they couldn't believe that Scott had taken the time to come see them.
The Clemson players told them that their coaches did that sort of thing all the time, and the South Carolina players said their coaches never did anything like that, and they were impressed that the Clemson coaches cared so much. Granted, that was with the previous coaching staff at South Carolina, but it further shows the level of committment our coaches have to their players. I'm sure the players share these feelings with recruits, and the recruits see it for themselves when they visit.
Now you're seeing Dabo and our coaching staff adding championships and big wins to their resume to go along with their great recruiting. Before we often saw recruits taking a chance on us based on how much they liked our coaches, the environment, school, etc... but we also saw some recruits not quite pulling the trigger on us even though they felt that way because they choose a place they felt gave them a better chance at winning a NC. Now our coaches are adding big wins, conference titles, national title game appearances, and a national championship to their resumes, and anyone who is surprised at the recruiting kicking up yet another notch is either completely blind, or completely stupid.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: For the Gamecocks who insist Clemson is cheating....
Nov 29, 2017, 1:30 PM
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One more post, and I'm sorry for the multiple long posts. I'm amazed at how much our coaches get out of their players. Of course you're always going to have some players that don't pan out for whatever reason, but I've never witnessed a team that gets the most out of the majority of their talent the way this staff does. We've seen countless examples of 3 star players being key players for us, and we've rarely seen 4 or 5 star players turn into busts for us. For the most part, even the 5 star guys who don't quite live up to a 5 star ranking, are still guys who play really well for us, and aren't just complete busts.
Not to take a shot at Bowden, but it seemed like we always had several players on our team that barely did anything, and you'd be surprised to remember they were once a 4 star player. It's also amazing how we constantly have many 4 or 5 star players who don't get very much player time early on such as Higgins this season due to our depth, and it never seems to turn into an issue with players complaining about playing time, or impacting morale. I'm sure someone like Higgins was expecting to come in and play a lot right away, and he probably would have at a lot of places. Yet, if he were unhappy about it we never knew, and now it's looking as if he's going to be a huge part of our playoff push.
Heck, someone like Watson could easily of had a me first attitude, and been upset over not getting to stay in games to pad his stats for the Heisman the way Jackson was. Our coaches do a wonderful job of finding the right guys, and selling them on team first. You can tell our players enjoy each other. I've seen announcers multiple times speak of how impressed they were late in games where we're winning by a lot with our backups in, over how our starting players were excited seeing the backups making plays, and how the starters were the first ones to greet the backups on the sidelines to congratulate them.
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