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Letterman [256]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 382
Joined: 4/15/14
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For people worried about Covid “death” totals data
Apr 9, 2020, 5:14 PM
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I fill out death certificates as part of my job - thankfully, not many these days, but if we get a surge in the coming weeks, I likely will again.
The general process is that you First identify the most direct, acute cause of death - say “acute respiratory failure due to Covid 19 infection” on the top line, followed by all directly contributing underlying factors “asthma” or “congestive heart failure” or “lung cancer”. What this means is technically Covid is identified as the cause of death when appropriate, but the “preexisting conditions” are also noted. People recognize that if a person with a terrible heart and Lungs dies with Covid pneumonia, it’s different than when a person who’s otherwise completely healthy dies from Covid pneumonia, however both technically contribute to death totals, same as the flu “deaths”.
You can rest assured, the “liberals” don’t tell doctors what to write, nor do “conservatives” - we simply use best clinical judgement related to the patients condition. This comes into play when people are referring to the CDC guidelines to attribute Covid as a cause of death in a case in which the patient was never able to be tested for it - Covid has a recognizable syndrome of effects, as do many other diseases, plus some common sense mixed in - as in if grandpa’s live-in son had tested positive for Covid, then grandpa quickly and suddenly dies of respiratory failure at home - you can put two and two together if it makes sense, you know. For what it’s worth, when we do our jobs, there is very little thought of the “politics” of things - were just trying to get stuff accurate and help people. When the data is presented in the media by political figures of course, statistics can certainly be skewed - “lies, #### lies, and statistics” as they say. However, there is no mass conspiracy to either inflate Covid numbers or deflate them
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CU Medallion [56587]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 11/12/04
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Re: For people worried about Covid “death” totals data
Apr 9, 2020, 5:57 PM
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This is exactly what a co-conspirator would say. Well done. The Star Chamber cabal will be pleased.
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Varsity [244]
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Re: For people worried about Covid “death” totals data
Apr 9, 2020, 6:16 PM
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Tiger swimmer What a pitiful mind. The Chinese did it, the WHO did it, the liberals did it, the media did it, the Russians did it (except for donald), the #### hole countries did it, the Muslims did it, minorities did it, the Jews did it, the gays did it, etc etc. What a horrible way to live. Totally with out fault.
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CU Medallion [56587]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: For people worried about Covid “death” totals data
Apr 9, 2020, 9:53 PM
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it must suck to be you.
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110%er [6321]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5009
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Re: For people worried about Covid “death” totals data
Apr 9, 2020, 10:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: For people worried about Covid “death” totals data ] |
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So, do you believe in the biology of gender?
Do you believe that grown men should be using the women's rest room?
Do you believe that open borders is the way to go for a country?
Do you believe that it's okay to sell baby body parts?
Do you believe it's okay for government to take 70% or more of a person's earnings as tax?
Socialists...
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Heisman Winner [111187]
TigerPulse: 100%
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it is a shame you even had to post that
Apr 9, 2020, 6:01 PM
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but these conspiracies are little more than cover for our Federal government botching the response, most notably the white house downplaying the outbreak when they should have been shutting down air travel from Europe and employing a massive testing program.
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Orange Blooded [3195]
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Re: it is a shame you even had to post that
Apr 9, 2020, 6:12 PM
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i beg to differ on botched response.Had the leaders in New York been more proactive,the country as a whole would be in better shape.I’m sure they would do a lot of things better in hindsight.
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Heisman Winner [111187]
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Re: it is a shame you even had to post that
Apr 9, 2020, 6:18 PM
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Agree, they were late in their response, but still acted more quickly than most states. Had air travel been suspended from Europe, they would not be in this mess. Shutting down Travel from China saved California, but did little else for the rest of the country. And we still do not have adequate testing, 3 months after the fact.
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Orange Blooded [3195]
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Re: it is a shame you even had to post that
Apr 9, 2020, 6:22 PM
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I’m sure Trump would have done that quicker in hindsight.And had Cuomo called and suggested it,probably been done sooner.I’m not bashing Cuomo,but he didn’t see it either.
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Heisman Winner [111187]
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I have absolutely no doubt he would have.
Apr 9, 2020, 6:32 PM
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and plenty of blame to go all around, I am not just pointing the finger at one man. But he is the leader of this country and there was a month where he seemed more interested in being a cheeleader and keeping the markets from dipping than he was taking the advice from some very good scientists in his administration.
I think most of us refused to accept this, we did not want to believe it was possible in this country. And truth be told, Americans do not trust authority, nor the media. That does not help either.
And It is up to us now to do our part.
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Orange Blooded [4959]
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Re: I have absolutely no doubt he would have.
Apr 10, 2020, 12:14 AM
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So no good scientists in the administration had differing views and advice for Trump than the ones you say he should have listened to?
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110%er [6095]
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Bingo on the trust issue. 3 years of trying to remove a
Apr 10, 2020, 7:32 AM
[ in reply to I have absolutely no doubt he would have. ] |
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President by any means necessary hurt trust, delayed necessary action. The testing seems to have been botched early by CDC bureaucratic processes which they eventually relaxed. Lack of testing is still a problem and I don’t know why.
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Orange Blooded [2862]
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Re: it is a shame you even had to post that
Apr 9, 2020, 6:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: it is a shame you even had to post that ] |
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Data coming out of China showed this to be a very SARS-like virus (per Dr Birx) in terms of R-nought (transmission).
The WHO believed China when it said on January 14th that there was little evidence of human-to-human transmission. That was a tremendous blunder.
The CDC and FDA were very uncoordinated and botched the testing response in the US. There were private companies making tests, but the CDC put a stop to it. But at least the CDC didn't drop the ball on health justice efforts, or diversity and inclusion.
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Legend [17215]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14172
Joined: 12/14/98
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Research from Mt Sinai tracks NY outbreak
Apr 9, 2020, 8:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: it is a shame you even had to post that ] |
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to Europe based on virus minor genetic mutations .
So the China travel ban was largely ineffective _ may have helped CA?
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Legend [15492]
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Re: it is a shame you even had to post that
Apr 10, 2020, 11:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: it is a shame you even had to post that ] |
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i beg to differ on botched response.Had the leaders in New York been more proactive,the country as a whole would be in better shape.I’m sure they would do a lot of things better in hindsight.
Twice the number of deaths have occurred outside of New York.
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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Re: it is a shame you even had to post that
Apr 10, 2020, 1:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: it is a shame you even had to post that ] |
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so, to be clear, the "leaders in New York" needed to be more proactive. Not the guys in Washington who got briefed about covid 19 back in November by the Pentagon, using surveillance photos of Wuhan.
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Orange Blooded [3195]
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Re: it is a shame you even had to post that
Apr 10, 2020, 1:59 PM
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Pentagon debunked this story.You can choose to believe them or another source.
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Hall of Famer [22926]
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Joined: 12/2/00
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Your job sounds terrible
Apr 9, 2020, 6:04 PM
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Hope you can somehow leave the mental anguish at the job site
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All-In [25850]
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Re: Your job sounds terrible
Apr 9, 2020, 6:21 PM
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All politicians are guilty, both Dems and Repubs.
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Legend [17748]
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This gives me better context into lightbulb's daily death totals updates
Apr 9, 2020, 6:25 PM
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Just a little over three weeks ago he was at 50.
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Orange Blooded [3507]
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Oh Oh me me!!!
Apr 9, 2020, 6:28 PM
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My fave part was when Cuomo poofed those solar panels he spent the vent money on into actual vents. It was amazing. What a hero.
And which is it? Is Trump a xenophobe for stopping travel....or did he not stop travel soon enough? The MSM can't make up their minds on this one.
Message was edited by: TigerFanX2000®
Message was edited by: TigerFanX2000®
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All-In [43977]
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Great point.
Apr 9, 2020, 8:23 PM
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I remember Trump getting blasted by the media for “overreacting” and being “racist” for restricting travel. Now they are saying he underestimated the severity and didn’t stop travel soon enough. Ridiculous.
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Legend [18407]
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Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/20/13
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Re: Great point.
Apr 9, 2020, 9:30 PM
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Come on judge. He's botched this from the get... And that's coming from a combination of appearances on fox. He's a total embarrassment unless you're a racist Nazi. The way he acts is not fitting for the most powerful office in the world.
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Orange Blooded [3195]
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Re: Great point.
Apr 9, 2020, 10:18 PM
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Why do you keep this up?If you think Biden is going to win or Cuomo is riding to the rescue,then your not paying attention?Hate to see you consumed with hate for another four.
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Legend [18407]
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Re: Great point.
Apr 10, 2020, 8:54 AM
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Find a post where I keep it up. Find a post where I ever said I wanted biden or Cuomo as pres. Find a post where I said I'm hated for the last 4 years...
I'm just stating facts from his own network. If you're going to make a statement, back it up.
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Orange Blooded [3195]
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Re: Great point.
Apr 10, 2020, 12:39 PM
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Did not say you hated him for last four.If I inferred that you will hate him when he is re-elected,then my apologies.
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Legend [18407]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 10/20/13
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Re: Great point.
Apr 10, 2020, 8:58 AM
[ in reply to Re: Great point. ] |
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Oh, and if I'm not correct, why is my senator now telling him to get a grip and back off.
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Orange Blooded [3507]
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Joined: 9/27/14
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Amazing that people "thumbs down" facts. All one has to do
Apr 9, 2020, 9:51 PM
[ in reply to Great point. ] |
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go back and watch them when this all started. They were falling all over each other to get the 1st story out that Trump is a "Xenophobe" and hates Chinese people......
Meanwhile Italy's prez holds a "hug a Chinese person day" as a jab at Trump with the thousands of Chinese workers and their families in Northern Italy. Pelosi tours Chinatown in SF while Congress is waiting for her to get back so they can vote on a relief package. This all actually happened folks.
BTW I have a friend who lives in Lyme Connecticut (from where Lyme disease is named) and he is demanding that Lyme disease be renamed.The scientists must hate people from Lyme Connecticut.
Message was edited by: TigerFanX2000®
Message was edited by: TigerFanX2000®
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CU Guru [1669]
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Joined: 11/20/07
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Re: Great point.
Apr 10, 2020, 12:56 AM
[ in reply to Great point. ] |
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Excellent point judge. That’s a fact that those with an “agenda” conveniently forget. He was absolutely roasted at the end of January for halting travel to/from China, etc.
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Orange Blooded [3706]
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He didn't halt travel from China
Apr 10, 2020, 8:10 PM
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He stopped Chinese nationals from traveling directly from China to the US. Our citizens got a pass to come home and there were many work around to get to the US from China.
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All-American [587]
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Re: Great point.
Apr 10, 2020, 1:40 PM
[ in reply to Great point. ] |
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Care to provide a link where multiple media outlets were calling Trump racist for restricting "some" air travel from China, even after other countries had already done it (Spain and Australia)?
If anyone called him racist, it was likely because he restricted travel from Chinese citizens, but allowed 40,000 American citizens travel to and from China after he placed those restrictions--as if American citizens were incapable of bringing back the virus.
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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Re: Great point.
Apr 10, 2020, 1:49 PM
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He can't. How do I know? Because I just wandered over to Snopes, which has a whole article devoted to this fantasy of the administration's. Turns out nobody in congress has said one word about the travel ban, which wasn't actually a travel ban anyway.
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Athletic Dir [881]
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They never really stopped travel from China or Europe
Apr 9, 2020, 8:33 PM
[ in reply to Oh Oh me me!!! ] |
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There are far fewer flights now, but they are still arriving:
One flight from Hong Kong is due at LAX today at 1921 local. Another is due at Dulles at 2135. Plenty from Europe (though mostly London and Reykjavik from what I see)
They restricted travel by Chinese nationals and then some European nationals, but there were so many exemptions. Unfortunately, we believe most of the carriers were US citizens and residents returning from overseas.
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Oculus Spirit [97632]
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Cause of death is never just covid, I wouldn't think
Apr 9, 2020, 9:18 PM
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Just like the cause of death is never HIV. It's pneumonia, respiratory failure. It's heart failure. Myocardial infarction. Aortic dissection. Renal failure, stroke, pulmonary embolism, anurism, whatever. There's probably a dozen or more causes of death linked to covid. Doctors know when covid causes whatever else that technically kills someone. Lot of heart attacks with covid.
Those next lines down "secondary to" is where covid comes into play.
I don't fill them out, but I've seen thousands of death certificates. Very good point you make.
I imagine a typical cause of death would be heart attack, secondary to covid, secondary to atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. Or respiratory failure, secondary to covid, secondary to copd or asthma. That's how I imagine it would read. I'm sure I'll see some eventually. I'd be surprised to see covid on the top line.
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Orange Blooded [4997]
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Re: For people worried about Covid “death” totals data
Apr 9, 2020, 9:29 PM
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Listening to an interview this morning with the physician from I believe Minnesota who happened to be voted "Top Physician of the Year" in that state whatever that means. He had a different take that yours. Basically that the someone in the Government is directing them to label a death as Covid related rather thats what actually killed them or not. As long as they were diagnosed with it.
My take is they've missed the mark with initial projected deaths and trying to justify the crash of the economy. Who knows, and I really mean that. The real answer is probably known by no one on Tigernet
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Orange Blooded [4997]
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Re: For people worried about Covid “death” totals data
Apr 9, 2020, 9:31 PM
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Sorry for the messy spellings, it's the Old Forester's fault
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Legend [18407]
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Re: For people worried about Covid “death” totals data
Apr 10, 2020, 9:08 AM
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I'd say if tigerrag does it for a living, he probably knows the truth. His post wasn't political, just merely the protocol they follow. I believe him.
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Orange Blooded [3507]
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If you go to the ER with a heart attack and die, and you
Apr 9, 2020, 10:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: For people worried about Covid “death” totals data ] |
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happen to be also asymptomatically positive for the virus, yes, that counts as a Covid death as well. That is the way they are counting it according to a Dr. friend of mine.
If that is true, then the numbers are completely and insanely skewed. Who's to say that 50 yr old who died of a heart attack would have also died from the virus. He could have recovered from the virus.
Message was edited by: TigerFanX2000®
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Legend [18407]
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Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/20/13
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Re: If you go to the ER with a heart attack and die, and you
Apr 10, 2020, 9:12 AM
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I'll trust the original poster who does it for a living instead of hearsay.
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All-American [587]
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All-American [587]
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Re: For people worried about Covid “death” totals data
Apr 10, 2020, 1:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: For people worried about Covid “death” totals data ] |
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Yes, this was directed because we have been undercounting COVID deaths for weeks due to poor testing. Prior to last week, if anyone died w/ COVID symptoms, but had not had a test to confirm COVID, then they were not counted as a COVID death.
Due to lack of testing, no post-mortem tests are being conducted.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: For people worried about Covid “death” totals data
Apr 9, 2020, 9:43 PM
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Ya'll need help if you think there is a conspiracy to increase / lower death statistics.
2000 was correct in his earlier post ....... "All politicians are guilty, both Dems and Repubs."
The 2020 election will be an IQ test. Hope we pass as a collective group, and yes we are one single group. We are Americans.
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CU Guru [1650]
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Legend [15492]
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Re: For people worried about Covid “death” totals data
Apr 10, 2020, 11:55 AM
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Other great headlines from dailyheadlines dot com:
BOMBSHELL: CDC WEBSITE TELLS HOSPITALS TO LIST COVID-19 AS CAUSE OF DEATH EVEN IF IT’S “ASSUMED TO HAVE CAUSED OR CONTRIBUTED TO DEATH (while showing the website from Johns Hopkins)
“SICK PUPPY” NANCY PELOSI PUSHES VOTE-BY-MAIL IN CREEPY VIDEO…TRUMP ANSWERS BACK IN A BIG WAY
ZOMBIES? CORONAVIRUS ALTERS BRAIN FUNCTION, MAKES SOME VICTIMS AGGRESSIVE, DISORIENTED (NOT SATIRE)
URGENT ALERT: FINANCIAL SYSTEM COLLAPSING AND MILITARY MARTIAL LAW PLANS LEAKED… DETAILS
DR. FAUCI LOWERS PROJECTIONS OF US CORONAVIRUS DEATHS TO 60K DUE TO SOCIAL DISTANCING, BUT SOME PEOPLE AREN’T BUYING IT…
That website is registered anonymously.
What s'matter, you're prescription to National Enquirer expire?
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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Re: For people worried about Covid “death” totals data
Apr 10, 2020, 1:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: For people worried about Covid “death” totals data ] |
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Yes, it's incredible how having everybody under virtual lockdown has led to fewer people dying in auto accidents, work-related accidents, homicides, etc.
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Orange Blooded [2397]
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Re: For people worried about Covid “death” totals data
Apr 10, 2020, 5:02 PM
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Thank you for posting that!
I saw a post on FB that said that any death, cancer, car wreck etc., would be attributed to corona per CSC guidance and that the "someone" wants the numbers inflated. Of course, that looked ridiculous, so I Googled CDC guidance on Codivd deaths and it took all of 30 seconds to find the pdf. Not being in the medical profession, I was not sure how to interpret the "top / bottom line" verbiage, but even a layman could conclude that original FB post was #########.
Now my soapbox: I wish people would please research something before they post it and realize that an opinion that isn't fact-based really isn't worth the bits spent posting it.
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50
