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I’m gonna step on some toes with this post
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I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 10:24 AM

If you call yourself a Christian but find that you are angry at the NFL protesters it may be time to do some soul searching....

Jesus didn’t command us to be patriotic, but he did command us to love and RESPECT each other.

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 10:27 AM

I don't see much love and respect from the protestors

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The Clemson - Georgia Tech game was played in Clemson


Oct 30, 2017, 10:29 AM

Saturday night despite someone claiming the weather would be so bad the game should be moved to Atlanta.

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 10:30 AM

Clemson is playing for its 3rd straight Atlantic title Sat , so who cares.

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 10:31 AM

My father was buried under that American flag. Where's the love and respect there?

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Love and respect from my end. WWII vet?***


Oct 30, 2017, 10:45 AM



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There's something in these hills.


Boom!


Oct 30, 2017, 10:57 AM [ in reply to Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post ]

Find another way to protest #####! Use your millions for something worthwhile and more effective.

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By the way, whoever TDd you is a loser


Oct 30, 2017, 10:59 AM [ in reply to Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post ]

and a complete asshat. I'm guessing it was jflop?

Why don't they show who's doing the TDing? Makes no sense.

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Those with no argument hide behind anonymity.***


Oct 30, 2017, 11:03 AM



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There's something in these hills.


Re: By the way, whoever TDd you is a loser


Oct 30, 2017, 12:29 PM [ in reply to By the way, whoever TDd you is a loser ]

I gave you a TD because you can come up with a better term than asshat.

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 12:00 PM [ in reply to Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post ]

Talking about looking to be offended....

Their protest has nothing to do with the military.

A bigger way to disrespect people like your father would be to shut down the freedom of speech that they fought for.

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 10:31 AM

Protest divides.

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Yup! Especially on this issue.


Oct 30, 2017, 10:56 AM

Not to mention their RIDICULOUS and IGNORANT mode of protest.

Poor, oppressed millionaires. Waaahh..

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 12:02 PM [ in reply to Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post ]

No..... division is caused when the president attacks people exercising their right as citizens and then later in the day tweets about protecting the constitution when it comes to guns.....

Not to mention he’s the only one in all this that has DIRECTLY disrespected a veteran.

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Can you tell me where Christ, The Apostle Paul or...


Oct 30, 2017, 10:31 AM

any of our Christian heroes were involved in politics? If you can then I will start posting on our P&R forum again.

Yes, I did some soul searching, Hop. It became clear to me that getting bogged down in politics, which is a secular concern and is therefor an encumberment God doesn't will me to bear.




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Re: Can you tell me where Christ, The Apostle Paul or...


Oct 30, 2017, 11:16 AM

Jesus pointed out a lot of injustices in society. While I think the protesters are being a bit shortsighted we both know there have been officers that have gotten away with murder.

It doesn’t have to be all political in P&R. There is an R in there after all. ;)

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I'm pretty tired


Oct 30, 2017, 10:32 AM

of worrying about offending people. I'm pretty tired of the, "if you disagree with me, then you hate me" snowflake attitude. I'm tired of the disingenuous "debates", if you can call them debates. I'm tired of people who somehow think they have a miraculous gift of knowing others' motivations/intentions.
I'm tired of posts like this showing up in the wrong forms....

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Re: I'm pretty tired


Oct 30, 2017, 10:36 AM

Try a vacation to rest up a bit and get your joy back!

We all need to be refreshed.

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We keep getting better & better everyday, in every way!
“The only disability is a bad Attitude” Dabo Swinney!!
Let’s Go Tigers!


I dunno. I'm not an expert on what stance jesus


Oct 30, 2017, 10:35 AM

Would think of wealthy, grown men acting like 16 yr old girls.

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Geville Tiger on Clemson football , "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 10:39 AM

Disagreeing with a form of protest does not equate to hating or not loving someone.

My personal contention and issue is not with their intent or motives, but with the method. It's counterproductive, distracting, and does nothing to focus attention on the issue they want to address. Rather, it focuses attention on themselves.

I have nothing against the people involved, other than sad for them and much of these younger generations that they have no real understanding of history or how to affect real, positive change.

It is very possible to dislike a policy or an action without disliking the person doing it. Big difference.

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 12:06 PM

Good for you. More people need to take your approach instead of attacking the protesters because that’s what is happening.

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post-not mine


Oct 30, 2017, 10:40 AM

they were blown off in an unfortunate mining accident. :)

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I thought you lost your toes in Korea to frostbite?


Oct 30, 2017, 10:42 AM

you old fart

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 10:41 AM

Don't really see this as a religious question, more of a First Amendment question.

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The first amendment protects everyone's right to protest.


Oct 30, 2017, 10:50 AM

Even if your protest makes no sense.

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There's something in these hills.


Re: The first amendment protects everyone's right to protest.


Oct 30, 2017, 10:58 AM

It protects against the government stopping your right to free speach. The first amendment does not protect you on the job. The owners/coach’s can bench them, withhold pay or fire them. If they tell the players that attitude or action will have a particular consequence and the player/players do it anyway the owners/coach’s have every legal right to punish them as they see fit

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Go Tigers! Once A Tiger Always A Tiger


Yeah, that's exactly what I said.


Oct 30, 2017, 11:05 AM

Individuals are protected from the fear of ending up in a gulag over protesting.

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There's something in these hills.


No. The 1st Amendment pertains to gov't limiting speech


Oct 30, 2017, 10:57 AM [ in reply to Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post ]

Not the private sector..

Sorry

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The Artist Formerly Known as "The FIGHTINGDABOS"


Respect others, attack oppression by wearing a Castro shirt?


Oct 30, 2017, 10:42 AM

It's clear that many feel that kneeling is an offense, lack of respect to those that fought and died to provide the very freedoms under which people in these United States live.

The Flag and Anthem are symbols, no more, of a Utopian ideal - what could be and what we hopefully strive to become.

Why crap on the Dream, the Symbols and the people that died valiantly in defense of it? That's reasonable as well and people are exercising their right to express their discontent.

Unfortunately for all and The Dream, governments and people are human, therefore flawed.

If you want to rally against the US Government and the monster it has become, I'll lead the way and start with the coup that overthrew the Articles of Confederation.

So much noise...

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 10:45 AM

No one seems to realize that the protest started by Kaepernick has nothing to do with the military or patriotism. Part of the superficial culture of the day just to see someone kneeling and make a bunch of assumptions without bothering to see the meaning or intent of their actions/statements.

Kind of like when Dabo go roasted last year for his rant about kneeling. Nobody actually bothered to listen to his statements, they just took a few one liners and looped it on ESPN.

Really, the good and the bad of it is that all you ######### get to have an opinion although you don't really deserve one. Luckily, we live in America, so you get to keep it. Just like players get to kneel during the anthem for whateverthehell reason they want to.

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 10:59 AM

Well you're actually wrong. Before taking his first knee Kaepernick sat on the bench during the anthem. His veteran teammate, Nate Boyer, was bothered by it and convinced him to kneel with his teammates rather than sit out the anthem all together, even though kneeling still bothered Boyer as he stated in interviews. Before taking his knee Kaepernick stated in press conferences that he would not respect a flag that stood for oppression. He wears a Che Guevara shirt. The kneeling was never even a protest at all until it became an issue. It began simply as a compromise between Kaepernick and Boyer as a lesser way of disrespecting the anthem.

These are your facts. You can go listen to the many interviews Boyer has done on the subject.

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 11:07 AM

No, no, not the facts!

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 1:32 PM [ in reply to Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post ]

> Well you're actually wrong. Before taking his first
> knee Kaepernick sat on the bench during the anthem.
> His veteran teammate, Nate Boyer, was bothered by it
> and convinced him to kneel with his teammates rather
> than sit out the anthem all together, even though
> kneeling still bothered Boyer as he stated in
> interviews. Before taking his knee Kaepernick stated
> in press conferences that he would not respect a flag
> that stood for oppression. He wears a Che Guevara
> shirt. The kneeling was never even a protest at all
> until it became an issue. It began simply as a
> compromise between Kaepernick and Boyer as a lesser
> way of disrespecting the anthem.
>
> These are your facts. You can go listen to the many
> interviews Boyer has done on the subject.

From Kaepernick:

(on his message to members of the military) "I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country. I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That's not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn't holding their end of the bargain up, as far as giving freedom and justice, liberty to everybody. That's something that's not happening. I've seen videos, I've seen circumstances where men and women that have been in the military have come back and been treated unjustly by the country they fought have for, and have been murdered by the country they fought for, on our land. That's not right."

“The media painted this as I’m anti-American, anti-men-and-women of the military and that’s not the case at all,’’ Kaepernick said, USA Today reports. “I realize that men and women of the military go out and sacrifice their lives and put themselves in harm’s way for my freedom of speech and my freedoms in this country and my freedom to take a seat or take a knee so I have the utmost respect for them."

"Once again, I’m not anti-American,’’ he said again later that evening. “I love America.”

I'm sure you'll ignore these facts, because you didn't spend 30 seconds seeing what Kaepernick actually said on the topic.

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 2:06 PM

It doesn't matter what he said. His actions speak the loudest. And his actions are to choose the very moment the anthem is playing for his protest as opposed to the other 178 minutes he could choose.

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 2:58 PM

> It doesn't matter what he said.

Figured as much - ignore the facts that don't fit your narrative and blindly assume his protest is about what you want it to be about.

His protest is about racial injustice from targeting of African Americans by police, and unfair treatment of minorities in the judicial system. This has to do with government in our country, which is represented by the Flag of the United States of America.

Someone else could protest the military or its involvement in other countries (Vietnam protests, for example) by peacefully kneeling during the National Anthem, and that too would fall under the government which is represented by the Flag of the United States of America. However, Kaepernick has already stated what he is protesting and why. It has nothing to do with the Military, but it does have to do with our country. You choose to ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative.

THOSE are the facts.

As my old Clemson professor used to say, there are two types of people in the world:

1) Tigers - independent, dominant, hunters, thinkers, free
2) Sheep - dependent, subordinate, prey, ignorant, slaves

You're choosing to be a sheep and have your "facts" spoon fed to you rather than doing any critical thinking or research for yourself. However, I still believe in you. Now believe in yourself and form your own opinions after doing research on the topic. Become a Tiger.

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 3:00 PM

I know what his protest is about. We're not arguing about what the protest is about. The argument is whether or not the protest is meant to ALSO disrespect the national anthem and flag and it absolutely does. The facts I gave you prove that.

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 4:31 PM

> The argument is
> whether or not the protest is meant to ALSO
> disrespect the national anthem and flag and it
> absolutely does. The facts I gave you prove that.

What does disrespect the flag mean? Please explain. A flag is a flag. It sounds like disrespect the flag means (to you) disrespecting the country and people who fought for our freedoms, which Kaepernick has clearly stated is not the intent. See quotes above.

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 11:15 AM [ in reply to Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post ]

Almost everyone protesting has a different reason for protesting . For the most part they are not even together on the reason of the protest. It’s more like my brotha is protesting so I am and it goes from there. If these players really feel they need to make a change and stance while on the job they need to step up and refuse that nasty money from those racist owners, hell they can walk off of the job and use those degrees they have to get a job where they are appreciated

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Go Tigers! Once A Tiger Always A Tiger


As far as I'm concerned their protests are pointless.


Oct 30, 2017, 10:49 AM

Until I hear a definitive reason (not vague empty phrases centered around the word "issues") I'm going to assume they're upset people can't break the law and get away with it.

Start following the law and "police brutality" disappears. Start teaching children at an early age about love and respect for all and eventually racism disappears.

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There's something in these hills.


First Amendment right...


Oct 30, 2017, 10:53 AM

Christianity and religion have nothing to do with it. There are Christians/religious people who are on both sides of the argument.

Exercising your 1st Amendment right like this is no different then exercising your 2nd Amendment right to own a gun.

At the end of the day, there's no right or wrong view. Listen to people, respect their opinions, and move on.

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Re: First Amendment right...Incorrect


Oct 30, 2017, 11:26 AM

"Exercising your 1st Amendment right like this is no different then exercising your 2nd Amendment right to own a gun."

The statement by itself is correct. The situation it applies to is incorrect. One has both rights. One's first amendment right is in the PUBLIC forum on one's own time at one's own cost and with one's own risk of consequences. "Free speech" works both ways - one can have an opinion and can criticized for it as well.

"Free speech" in the PRIVATE sector while an EMPLOYEE can, and usually does, cost one's job (as it should regardless of the opinion). It is the absolute incorrect forum for doing so. Furthermore, these players who wish to exercise their "free speech" while being paid to ENTERTAIN precisely those people who pay their enormous salaries while the players insult the symbolism of the ENTIRE country and the principles for which it stands is completely hypocritical and misplaced. The fans elevated these celebrities to their status and lifestyle and the players complain about it. It doesn't get much worse than that. The players play for 1. the fans, 2. their owner, 3. their teammates, and 4. the NFL.

Interestingly, the players who protest seem to wish to make the statements concerning themselves. If the players were truly interested in helping whatever situation the wish to "protest," which has morphed into "general oppression," "racism," and "police brutality," i.e., they don't even know themselves what they are protesting, they would have a unifying and clear message, not a divisive message and method, and then actually DO something to help, e.g., DeShaun Watson's generous gift to the cafeteria workers.

I completely agree with your last statement. However, there cannot be chaos in the workplace.

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Toes? You misspelled ####


Oct 30, 2017, 10:54 AM

LOL with your wackiness.

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Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 10:57 AM

If you call spitting in the eye of those who served this country in uniform a form of "protest", then you deserve the scorn you just earned. Jesus has nothing to do with this. That's just common sense.

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Screw Calford.


Re: I’m gonna step on some toes with this post


Oct 30, 2017, 10:57 AM

Reprove,rebuke, exhort.

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Maybe you should spend more time worrying about


Oct 30, 2017, 11:02 AM

this type of anger first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y3Cd9gnvlw

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Re: Maybe you should spend more time worrying about


Oct 30, 2017, 11:04 AM

Wow talk about a domestic terrorist, he definitely fits the bill

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Go Tigers! Once A Tiger Always A Tiger


What does that have to do with the NFL?*****


Oct 30, 2017, 11:22 AM [ in reply to Maybe you should spend more time worrying about ]



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Hey JHop!


Oct 30, 2017, 11:11 AM

As a non-Christian, I want to say that I regret I can only thumbs up this post once.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


I'm not much of a Christian, but are you basically


Oct 30, 2017, 11:19 AM

saying that it is unchristian to be angry at other people, and simply using the current event as an example?

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null


when you tell people you're going to step on their toes


Oct 30, 2017, 12:11 PM

It usually isn't comfortable.

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Okay. Thanks for that.***


Oct 30, 2017, 12:15 PM



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null


since when is it not ok to be angry as a Christian?


Oct 30, 2017, 11:46 AM

as a Christian, I am called to forgive. I am called to love. But its absolutely ridiculous to suggest nobody should be angry. Jesus got angry. Paul got angry. Peter, a disciple, got angry.

Being angry is a human emotion. What you do with that anger is what I'd be concerned with

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Yes, this hits on my question above. Either hop is saying


Oct 30, 2017, 11:57 AM

that Christians should never get angry at another person, in which case I would say that that's not my understanding but I'm surely not the expert...or he's specifically saying that getting angry at these protesters is unchristian, which I think is laughable but would like to hear the explanation.

Unfortunately, I think hop is just trolling to get a rise out of people.

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null


Re: Yes, this hits on my question above. Either hop is saying


Oct 30, 2017, 1:03 PM

Jesus’ anger was directed mainly at the Pharisees. I don’t think he’d be angry with Kaepernick, do you? He would probably kneel beside him and listen to what he had to say and show him that he cared, like he did with the writer of the gospel that the following verse is from.....

Matthew 5:22

But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

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I don't know what Jesus would do but the problem


Oct 30, 2017, 1:49 PM

with your argument is that you accept Kap's premise, which I don't. Then you have to assume Jesus supports painting 800,000 people as evil, and racist, and I don't think he would. What about Kap's anger at 800,000 people and an entire country. That is acceptable anger to Jesus? Like if I'm angry at Kap because he insulted 800,000 people who he's never met, smeared them, damaged their relationship with their community, made everyone less safe, and further fractured a country, is that LESS valid than Kap being angry at and verbally attacking nearly a million people and insulting a country of over 300 million when statistically it is absurd to say that cops consider it open season on minorities?

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null


Re: since when is it not ok to be angry as a Christian?


Oct 30, 2017, 1:19 PM [ in reply to since when is it not ok to be angry as a Christian? ]

And Peter was rebuked time and time again for his anger.

Jesus was angry at sin. Pointing to an injustice in society is not a sin. In fact Jesus did that a lot himself.

Paul talked extensively throughout his letters about humility and putting the thoughts and concerns of others above yourself.

Kaepernick claims to be a Christian btw....

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