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YOUR BALANCE
So the ACC has been garbage this season, but theres a chance
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So the ACC has been garbage this season, but theres a chance


Nov 14, 2018, 7:12 AM

to salvage a little respect going into the prime season for making ACC network deals with providers.

A few long shots like GT beating UGA and PITT losing out, but here is how I see the best case scenario.

https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2018/11/guest-post-best-case-for-acc-111418.html

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Mississippi Tiger --------- Clemson University - 8 Time National Football Champions - 1900, 1906, 1948, 1950, 1981, 1983, 2016, 2018


As soon as you referred to the ACC as “we”...


Nov 14, 2018, 7:19 AM

I was out. Plus IMO it’s better for the league to finish with as many highly ranked teams as possible which does not mean BC losing out. With losses in front of them and winning out, Cuse and BC can easily finish top 12-15. NC state winning out likely gets them ranked top 25. FSU clawing mediocrity out of the jaws of ineptitude does nothing for no one. At this point, f*ck VT and Miami.

Cuse making a NY6 bowl outweighs FSU or VT going to Shreveport or Mobile or some other destination nobody wants to go to.

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Re: As soon as you referred to the ACC as “we”...


Nov 14, 2018, 7:26 AM

The WE refers to all the schools and the collective money deal with ESPN. As much as any of us hate it, how WE perform affects how much money WE make. The WE is not a reference to seeing other ACC teams as equal to Clemson from a fan perspective and riding their coattails in a down year like a scrub chicken fan. The term "mutually assured destruction" applies here. Just to be clear


To your points. BC has 2 games left. One is vs Cuse. Cuse needs to win that game. Its unlikely for BC to be ranked after that regardless, but i could be wrong. In an ideal scenario, FSU beats UF (which is also still garbage) and makes a Bowl. Trading one loss from an unranked team for another team to go to a bowl is the best choice. Just my opinion.

Fing VTech and Miami doesn't fit into the parameters of this post

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Mississippi Tiger --------- Clemson University - 8 Time National Football Champions - 1900, 1906, 1948, 1950, 1981, 1983, 2016, 2018


At this point


Nov 14, 2018, 7:31 AM

The only OOC win that would move the needle is GT over UGA. UF bad, coots stink, Kentucky in a downward spiral. The destruction has already been mutually assured.

But the network won’t rely as much on FB as the SEC network does. ACC has much stronger Olympic sports and as long as we’re in the league, national eyeballs will tune in.

Let’s not kid ourselves though, the league is launching a network about 5 years past the peak of the market. I’d love to hear anyone’s input who thinks this comes close to SEC or B1G network $ and it has nothing to do with anything on the field.

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Re: At this point


Nov 14, 2018, 7:41 AM

Mutually assured destruction refers to the monetary ties of ACC members. Like it or not our TV revenue goes as the conference revenue goes. Our ESPN contract is 80 Football and 20 Basketball and everything else. We won't make as much as the SEC in football. Thats the point. ACC football needs to be better and it has been better. In 2016 it was the best. AND WE picked a bad year to fall off the wagon.

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Mississippi Tiger --------- Clemson University - 8 Time National Football Champions - 1900, 1906, 1948, 1950, 1981, 1983, 2016, 2018


The damage has been done at this point in the season


Nov 14, 2018, 7:52 AM

You think FSU beating our 3rd highest ranked team and a bad UF team to make the toilet bowl helps the league’s relevance?

I understand the point you’re trying to make but it’s just not a good or correct one. It’s better for the league to have teams in bowls that people will actually watch which means having your higher ranked teams win out to improve their rankings. And FSU/VT/Miami all missing a bowl in the same year doesn’t hurt the league significantly more than all of them going 6-6.

It’s just bad logic

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Re: The damage has been done at this point in the season


Nov 14, 2018, 8:00 AM

I'll agree to disagree. I think its hard to put teams on TV that have no games left. Or to talk about their game that isn't happening. the ACC has set records for the most bowl teams in recent years. Football moves the needle. WE need teams playing in games and fanbases with a smidge of hope at this point. I could be wrong. We'll see how it plays out. If BC does win vs FSU and Cuse wins out, then Hopefully BC will still be ranked going into their bowl.

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Mississippi Tiger --------- Clemson University - 8 Time National Football Champions - 1900, 1906, 1948, 1950, 1981, 1983, 2016, 2018


You still haven’t answered my question


Nov 14, 2018, 8:05 AM

Of how these 3 underachieving schools making middling bowls that nobody will go to or watch moves the needle on the network launching next year.

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Re: You still haven’t answered my question


Nov 14, 2018, 1:38 PM

By the total number of bowl teams and the perceived strength of the programs with the largest fanbases. This isn't just about network deals, but advertisers on said network. I'm not saying its substantial, but when you are behind every little bit helps. I don't see why you would think losing is just as good as winning.

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Mississippi Tiger --------- Clemson University - 8 Time National Football Champions - 1900, 1906, 1948, 1950, 1981, 1983, 2016, 2018


Why do you think 1 year of middling bowl participation


Nov 14, 2018, 4:06 PM

Moves the needle one way or the other? People are still going to watch FSU, VT, Miami next season. I’d argue them going to trash bowl games that draw sh!t ratings is actually looked upon worse by advertisers than if they never went. And those bowl payouts are so minuscule that Clemson wouldn’t see any of that money anyway. So like I said before, f*ck em

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FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 14, 2018, 1:41 PM [ in reply to At this point ]

Florida isn't great, but they certainly aren't bad (like FSU). Just going 2-2 in the ACC-SEC rivalry games to close the year would be a pretty big win for the conference.

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Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 14, 2018, 3:59 PM

For some reason I feel like FSU will beat Florida again this year, and I'm not ruling out Louisville against a very-overrated Kentucky (IMO).

As for the bowl teams issue, I agree I'd rather have two New Year's Six teams than 1 NY6 and 3 or 4 minor bowl teams - so if that means VT has to lose out in order for the ACC to benefit as a whole, I'm fine with that - but JUST THIS ONCE. Next year, the Coastal division sheriff returns with a revenge tour.

I do think it's good that all those TV viewers in Massachusetts, New York and Pennsylvania found out that they actually have ACC FOOTBALL teams in-state... maybe they'll sign up for the ACC Network channel in bigger numbers?

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Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 14, 2018, 4:20 PM

I have no ill will towards VT other than a certain recruit’s dad thinking Foster is better than Venables so I hope your bowl streak continues.

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Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 14, 2018, 4:10 PM [ in reply to FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal. ]

But what does that get the conference in the tv deal which is what the OP is arguing? If BC beats FSU then beats Cuse then they are likely in a NY6 bowl. Or if Cuse manages to beat ND then BC they’re definitely in the NY6. I’d argue to that would carry much more weight than wins over Kentucky or Florida especially if FSU loses this week and clinched bowl ineligibility.

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Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 14, 2018, 4:32 PM

Not sure when I argued for either or. The Most wins and most bowl teams is best. Winning matters. I'm not sure why you think winning makes no difference.

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Mississippi Tiger --------- Clemson University - 8 Time National Football Champions - 1900, 1906, 1948, 1950, 1981, 1983, 2016, 2018


Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 14, 2018, 4:40 PM

Show me that it makes a difference. What metrics are you using to prove there is a difference in the TV contract if the teams you mentioned make a bad bowl vs if they don’t? How much of a difference is it?

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Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 15, 2018, 7:25 AM

4+2=6

6>4

Proof: Winning is greater than losing

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Mississippi Tiger --------- Clemson University - 8 Time National Football Champions - 1900, 1906, 1948, 1950, 1981, 1983, 2016, 2018


Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 15, 2018, 9:02 AM

Still waiting on proof that that makes a difference in TV contracts and payouts. And how much of a difference it makes. Or are we just supposed to accept your opinions as fact?

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Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 15, 2018, 9:58 AM

Yes. The earth is round, the sky is blue and winning more certainly can't hurt. No I haven't prenegotiated the contract with my ESPN connection with the varying degrees of wins and losses and how that affects advertisers.

If you're asking me to explain to you how winning more helps a school and conference make more money then just hang on. I'll also teach you how to walk and go to the potty by yourself.

yes, yes, you're still waiting.

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Mississippi Tiger --------- Clemson University - 8 Time National Football Champions - 1900, 1906, 1948, 1950, 1981, 1983, 2016, 2018


Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 15, 2018, 10:02 AM

Don’t try to be a #### to me because I questioned your notion that those teams being bowl eiligible one year makes a #### bit of difference when it comes to the money in the TV contract and you have no evidence to prove your point.

I gave your ###### blog it’s click which you were looking for so run along and try to peddle your garbage elsewhere.

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Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 15, 2018, 10:16 AM

You drop the f bomb in your very first reply and Im the *****? You've got a warped sense of decency. You have proven yourself to all reading with your moronic and belligerent statements. If you can't think for yourself then try FGF. and If you don't know how supply and demand works then try first grade. It's best to keep your mouth shut before you make it worse.

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Mississippi Tiger --------- Clemson University - 8 Time National Football Champions - 1900, 1906, 1948, 1950, 1981, 1983, 2016, 2018


Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 15, 2018, 10:25 AM

Heaven forbid anyone question the points you’re trying to make then you not be able to back them up with evidence.

You were the one coming with the personal attacks when I asked for proof to back up your assertions and the only thing you could come up with is “6>4”.

No research into what the TV contracts are actually based on, the affects of on-field performance vs the average in a given year, ad revenues based on bowl eligible teams, ad revenues and viewership by bowl game and the trends based on who is playing in them, nothing.

All you have is “6>4” so forgive me for not accepting your premise as fact and asking for some data to back up your claims.

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Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 15, 2018, 10:30 AM

Oh look you can think for yourself. Your progress in the recognition of the obvious is astounding grasshopper.

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Mississippi Tiger --------- Clemson University - 8 Time National Football Champions - 1900, 1906, 1948, 1950, 1981, 1983, 2016, 2018


Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 15, 2018, 10:38 AM

I can think for myself just fine. But don’t ask for thoughts on your blog if you can’t handle criticism of it when you have no evidence to back it up. And since you still haven’t shown any, I’m going to go out on a limb and say you don’t have any. But keep up all the personal attacks you want.

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Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 15, 2018, 10:50 AM

The personal attacker complaining about personal attacks. That's rich right there. You know our exchange was going pretty well until you demanded an answer to a question you didn't ask and challenged and assertion I didn't make. Your straw man is taking a beating though.

No, I don't have any proof that winning is better than losing. Generally, that falls in the self-evident category like believing you exist.

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Mississippi Tiger --------- Clemson University - 8 Time National Football Champions - 1900, 1906, 1948, 1950, 1981, 1983, 2016, 2018


Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 15, 2018, 10:59 AM

“As much as any of us hate it, how WE perform affects how much money WE make.”

That is an assertion that you made in your first response, my guy. I never said winning wasn’t important, I said having the better teams win was more important. You disagreed with me, which is fine, but then when I asked for proof to back up what you claim that this affect something our bottom line, you resorted to calling me dumb and “not being able to think for myself” when in reality all you wanted was for me to think the same way you do based on just your opinion that you’re trying to trot out as fact.

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Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 15, 2018, 11:37 AM

I have no interest you adopting my opinion as to which wins are better. however, it is asinine to say that wins don't matter to the bottom line. If every team in the ACC went 4-8 this season would that affect the distribution of the ACC network this year? Obviously so. So if fewer wins affect us negatively and Lots of wins affect us positively then incrementally more wins are better than fewer wins. Am I wrong about this? The moment you put "few wins" as bad and "lots of wins" as good for monetary gain then you've created a scale in which getting the most and best wins are important to monetary gain.

If you want to discuss which wins are better then let's do that. If you want to talk about in terms of conference reputation then that's fine too. I see it as one and the same. I'd like to hear your opinion. That was the point of the post.

So if we want to pick back up at the 2nd or 3rd post in this thread. I would argue that FSU going 2 and 0 to finish the season giving fans (and more importantly executives) hope they aren't in for a lost decade with a win over their rival and bowl game does more for the conference marketing than BC going 1-1 (BC and Cuse play to end the season and its better for Cuse to win. We may disagree about that as well) and still finishing unranked at 8-4. FSU is the ACC's premier brand in terms of national eyeballs behind Clemson. FSU missing a bowl for the first time in a million years does not help our cause. IMO. I can't prove it. just like you can't prove the counter-argument you're about to make. So I'd be willing to trade one BC win for FSU not becoming a complete dumpster fire going into the most important money-making opportunity we'll have for 20 years.

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Mississippi Tiger --------- Clemson University - 8 Time National Football Champions - 1900, 1906, 1948, 1950, 1981, 1983, 2016, 2018


Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 15, 2018, 11:56 AM

Again, I understand the point you’re trying to make. In theory, the more success you have on the field is better when it’s proven out over the long run. Where we’re having the biggest disagreement is on the relative effect of FSU going to a bowl game this year which I’d be happy to debate more as I have the strongest opinions on them.

You say if they win out and make it to a bowl game (a severe statistical unlikelihood I might add) that will show that they aren’t in for a lost decade to use your own words. My side of the argument is that whether they go 0-2, 1-1, or 2-0 to finish the season, the season is going to be lost anyways and nobody is going to be pointing to them saying “hey look, they might have something over there”. People are still going to watch FSU regardless of their record this year which advertisers know.

Whether they are in for a lost decade remains to be seen, as I’m not that bleak on them but my hopes aren’t much higher. All the issues going on over there is a topic for a much longer and different debate. My point, and I might not have explained it as well as I’d like, is that advertisers/executives already know teams like Miami, VT, and FSU will draw eyeballs and if they are down probably won’t be remarkably bad for very long so these seasons could be written off as an anomaly. Therefore, I’d rather have our current highest ranked teams who don’t usually find themselves in this position to continue winning to give advertisers/execs hope that these programs are on the right track (which I believe they are). Which is why I said I would rather have Cuse if they beat ND win out or BC if they don’t beat ND win out to give the league the best chance possible at getting a smaller brand for the league in a NY6 game. I’m under the impression that a game like that would draw more eyeballs for the league than FSU playing Southern Miss in Shreveport again.

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Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 15, 2018, 12:23 PM

Again, I understand the point you’re trying to make. In theory, the more success you have on the field is better when it’s proven out over the long run. Where we’re having the biggest disagreement is on the relative effect of FSU going to a bowl game this year which I’d be happy to debate more as I have the strongest opinions on them.

You say if they win out and make it to a bowl game (a severe statistical unlikelihood I might add) that will show that they aren’t in for a lost decade to use your own words. My side of the argument is that whether they go 0-2, 1-1, or 2-0 to finish the season, the season is going to be lost anyways and nobody is going to be pointing to them saying “hey look, they might have something over there”. People are still going to watch FSU regardless of their record this year which advertisers know.


Yes, there are lots of statistical unlikelihoods in that post I was seeking the best possible outcome. I wasn't saying FSU wouldn't be in for a lost decade, it would just help the perception at this point in time. I mostly agree with your last statement, but the deals are being done this year. FSU's stadium being empty this year and last year are casting a lot of doubt. Many people will still watch but if the perception is that they are on somewhat of an upswing is better imo.

Whether they are in for a lost decade remains to be seen, as I’m not that bleak on them but my hopes aren’t much higher. All the issues going on over there is a topic for a much longer and different debate. My point, and I might not have explained it as well as I’d like, is that advertisers/executives already know teams like Miami, VT, and FSU will draw eyeballs and if they are down probably won’t be remarkably bad for very long so these seasons could be written off as an anomaly. Therefore, I’d rather have our current highest ranked teams who don’t usually find themselves in this position to continue winning to give advertisers/execs hope that these programs are on the right track (which I believe they are). Which is why I said I would rather have Cuse if they beat ND win out or BC if they don’t beat ND win out to give the league the best chance possible at getting a smaller brand for the league in a NY6 game. I’m under the impression that a game like that would draw more eyeballs for the league than FSU playing Southern Miss in Shreveport again.

Yes, I agree with that assessment in your ND/CUSE scenario. But if you say Cuse beating ND is the best case scenario. Then the next answer is based on the first answer with the question being "is it better to have an 8-4 likely unranked (arguable) BC or a potentially 7-5 FSU coming off a win over top 25 rival, a bowl win, and a 3 game win streak after a horrible start." FSU would be considered surging at this point and the fan base activated (Maybe). It would also be the center of much 2019 talk simply based on the brand. one BC loss is worth FSU in a bowl for conference brand perception I think. I don't think FSU winning out will make a substantial difference. I just think its worth one BC loss. I can't prove that, Just my opinion. I could be wrong.

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Mississippi Tiger --------- Clemson University - 8 Time National Football Champions - 1900, 1906, 1948, 1950, 1981, 1983, 2016, 2018


Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 15, 2018, 12:55 PM

GT has several wins over Top 25 UGA teams the last few years in rivalry week and that hasn’t been of big help to the conference over the long run.

But to your point BC at 8-4 doesn’t move the needle any either. Without sounding like Debbie Downer none of it matters from spots 2-10 in this specific year. FSU is always going to be a media darling and will get hyped up in the preseason again next year because the narrative they’ll push is “we were installing a new system and the OL was so bad we couldn’t do anything anyway”. If your traditional powers aren’t going to be in the top 25, then let them sell that they’re going to have a rebuild in the offseason and come out much better.

I guess my overall point is that the goings on of this year in the middle of the pack aren’t going to drastically effect the TV dollars positively or negatively.

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Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 15, 2018, 1:22 PM

You might be right. Hopefully, Swoffie won't screw this one up (talk about statistical improbabilities).

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Mississippi Tiger --------- Clemson University - 8 Time National Football Champions - 1900, 1906, 1948, 1950, 1981, 1983, 2016, 2018


Re: FSU beating Florida would be a pretty big deal.


Nov 15, 2018, 1:37 PM

That we can both agree on

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As soon as you said "nothing for no one"


Nov 14, 2018, 7:30 AM [ in reply to As soon as you referred to the ACC as “we”... ]

I was out...

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The road goes on forever and the party never ends...


Re: So the ACC has been garbage this season, but theres a chance


Nov 14, 2018, 7:20 AM

ESPN's conference mantra has ruined my life.

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Re: So the ACC has been garbage this season, but theres a chance


Nov 14, 2018, 7:25 AM

You should try meditation , it's like medication but with a tee instead .


Message was edited by: Tigerdug23®


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DB23


Re: So the ACC has been garbage this season, but theres a chance


Nov 14, 2018, 7:26 AM

This is easily the dumbest thing I have ever read. Other than the OBVIOUS wins OOC half of your other choices are ludicrous.

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Re: So the ACC has been garbage this season, but theres a chance


Nov 14, 2018, 7:27 AM

Ok I'll bite. Let's hear an actual argument. I'm willing to be wrong

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Mississippi Tiger --------- Clemson University - 8 Time National Football Champions - 1900, 1906, 1948, 1950, 1981, 1983, 2016, 2018


I don't understand why you would want Pitt to lose out


Nov 14, 2018, 7:37 AM

They would strengthen Cuse's SoS. And they would end up with one more win than Virgina if they both win out.

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Re: I don't understand why you would want Pitt to lose out


Nov 14, 2018, 7:50 AM

Virginia is the team with the best record currently at 7-3 and by winning out would have the best record in the coastal at 9-3. Pitt could only get to 8-4 as they are currently at 6 -4. With a split of their last 2 games they would be the Coastal champ at 7-5 and even winning both they probably won't be ranked. they need to lose out for UVA to be champ.

Cuse lost to Pitt I'm pretty sure. But either way, if Cuse beats ND then the Pitt game won't matter anymore.

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Re: I don't understand why you would want Pitt to lose out


Nov 14, 2018, 7:56 AM [ in reply to I don't understand why you would want Pitt to lose out ]

Pitt already has 4 losses so they would not end up with more wins going into ACCCG. Out of all I would want BC to beat FSU. Rather have them ranked than FSU in a bowl!

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