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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 9:18 AM
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Still butt hurt that we didn't get Zion. With him, we are easily a top 10 team.
We would have at the very least beaten Duke, UNC, NC State, and Miami. Also probably would have gone the entire out of conference schedule unscathed. People would be singing Brownell's praises but instead, people are calling his head.
An argument could be said that it's Brownell's fault that we didn't get him. My argument to that is that us out recruiting duke in basketball is equivalent to Duke out recruiting us in football.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 9:24 AM
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Zion is a once in a generation player. I don't blame CBB for not getting him. I would have been surprised if we did land him over Duke.
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Legend [18133]
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"Over Duke?"
Mar 6, 2019, 1:21 PM
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IIRC, Duke wasn't considered a possibility for his services. Shocked everyone when he signed with them. That's either stealthy or filthy recruiting.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: "Over Duke?"
Mar 7, 2019, 8:29 AM
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Didnt shock me a bit. Just because it wasnt hyped up by recruiting services didnt mean much to me. I would have been more surprised if we would have landed him.
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Orange Blooded [2877]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 9:28 AM
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I’m not sure any coach could of convinced them out of all three playing together at dookie. I think we need a new life in the program but wouldn’t agree we can put Zion on BB.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 9:45 AM
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I don't think any reasonable person would blame Brownell for not getting Zion. It just sucks because we are so close, and our season would be drastically different.
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Legend [17757]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 9:48 AM
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Correct. Zion coming here would have been the equivalent of TLaw going to play for Cutcliffe.
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All-American [567]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 5:40 PM
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At least Coach Cut has coach elite QBs.
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110%er [6095]
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I don’t think Clemson basketball is as far away from a
Mar 6, 2019, 5:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career ] |
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National Championship as Duke is from a National Championship in football. One guy in football isn’t going to move the needle nearly as much as one guy in basketball.
We could have been a contender with Zion. As good as TLaw is, he could be QB at Duke and they wouldn’t sniff a Championship in football.
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110%er [8221]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 9:48 AM
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well played.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 9:56 AM
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This isn’t a top 10 team with Zion let’s keep this discussion grounded in reality.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 10:06 AM
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Remember that for much of the season Virginia Tech was borderline top 10.
We beat them without their best player and obviously we didn't have Zion.
I believe he would have meant at least as much to us as their star meant to them.
It's not that far fetched to believe we could have flirted with the top 10 with a healthy Zion.
Look how much his injury is affecting a Duke team that looked nearly unstoppable with him.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 10:18 AM
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The problem is Zion would limit ET’s usage so he wouldn’t be a pure addition. And also VT was a top 10 team because they had played a joke schedule. Without Robinson they are barely a 2nd weekend team.
Zion worked well for Duke because they didn’t have a dominant big man that they were trying to feed down low like ET. We also don’t have reliable outside shooters like DeVoe last year that he’d be able to kick to.
I think we could be a top 25 team with him but still wouldn’t be a team that would compete for a final four.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 10:35 AM
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I wouldn't guarantee that we would be top 10 or even top 20, but it isn't crazy to think it would have been possible.
Unfortunately, it's all message bored what ifs at this point.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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He made the right decision
Mar 6, 2019, 10:39 AM
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If he wanted to position himself as advantageously as possible as a “brand” to rack up endorsement money after his one year and gain as much notoriety as possible, Duke was the right call.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: He made the right decision
Mar 6, 2019, 10:50 AM
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Agreed
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 10:43 AM
[ in reply to Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career ] |
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I'm fairly certain that we would have won the following games w/ Zion.
Nebraska - Lost by 2
Creighton - Lost by 5
Duke - Lost by 20
Syracuse - Lost by 8
NC State - Lost by buzzer beater
Miami - Lost by buzzer beater
Louisville - Lost by 1
UNC - Lost by 2
Right now we are 17-12.
Let's just say that we still lost 2 of the games above. That would mean that we would be 23-6. If we were 23-6, we would be a top 10 team.
I'm not even counting the losses to FSU, Mississippi State, Virginia, etc.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Possibly
Mar 6, 2019, 10:58 AM
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But Zion’s game doesn’t match how this team is built. Reed, Thomas, and Mitchell all need a good number of looks to be effective so plugging Zion in there reduces their touches so you can’t just say “putting Zion in this team increases scoring by 20 points”. His game is getting to the basket so you’d have to get Thomas out of there which is what he does best. Also takes the ball out of 2 and 4’s hands who are streaky and need to get into a rhythm. And again we don’t have reliable outside shooters.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Re: Possibly
Mar 6, 2019, 11:02 AM
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Also meant to add you can’t really scheme to take him away in the Duke lineup because Barrett is almost just as good. There’d be nobody else on our team that someone would really worry about going off for 35+ to beat you if you limit Zion.
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All-In [48078]
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CU Guru [1679]
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 1:00 PM
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Lock for top 10 with him without question.
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All-Conference [441]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 5:49 PM
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Reed would be getting more open looks and less pressure.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 10:41 AM
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We are watching people go to jail based on dirty recruiting in the NCAA. Zion has been named in the reports and it would surprise me, based on the affiliation, if something did not change hands for Duke to land him. I believe Brownell is running a clean program and hope that we don't find out otherwise. If that means we miss out on a recruit so be it. Until the NCAA takes some action, it is hard to judge Brownell against the schools/coaches included in the investigation.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 10:59 AM
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IF there are ever any penalties handed down for all of this dirty recruiting, will Brownell still be in Clemson to have a chance to make a jump in recruiting without having to deal with the current obstacles?
I think that's a big "if" because I'm not sure the NCAA will do much to the coaches.
If the guilty coaches stay in coaching, they will just find new ways to cheat to get players.
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Starter [354]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 12:03 PM
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Records over the last 3 years in ACC games decided by 3 points or less
UVA 4-4
ND 4-5
GT 4-5
Pitt 2-6
U of L 1-4
BC 1-5
Clem 1-13
This is why Brownell needs to go and we need fresh blood. When was the last time you saw him draw up a play to win a game or get a much needed bucket? I can't remember one. Zion isn't affecting Brownell's career. Brownell's offensive mind and scheme is affecting his career. He doesn't have one.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 1:04 PM
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The Louisville game this season.
We made an amazing comeback in under a minute that fell just short. Ball tipped at the buzzer kept us from a win.
Is your opinion that Brownell did not draw up any of those scoring plays?
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 2:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career ] |
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This is why you need to look inside the stats instead of taking them at face value.... Yes the numbers look bad, but in most cases the team that we lost to was just flat out better than us.
Would you say it's hard to close games out against teams that have more talent than you? or on the road vs. at home??
So of the 13 games that we lost, 6 of them were against ranked teams...
Of the 13 games that we lost, 8 were on the road....
Of the 13 games that we lost, 11 of them were eventually NCAA tournament teams.
16-17
#19 FSU (3 seed in tourney)
VT (9 seed in tourney)
@ #18 Duke (2 seed in tourney)
Syracuse
@ VT (9 Seed in tourney)
#14 UNC (1 seed and national champ)
17-18
@ NC State (9 seed in tourney)
@ FSU (9 seed in tourney)
@ Syracuse (11 seed in tourney)
18-19
@ #21 NC State
@ Miami
@ #16 Louisville
#5 UNC
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 3:03 PM
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One could actually argue that over the last 3 years, we have over-achieved based on our talent...
Recruiting is also on Brownell, but he hasn't had a whole lot to work with for the majority of his time at Clemson. His first 6 years, he had the worst administrative support (still near the bottom), worst facilities (Middle of the pack now), and worst tradition (still worst)
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 4:31 PM
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To extrapolate the OP's logic on Zion a little further, if CLEMSON had recruited the 5 best one-and-done players in the country, we would have been #1 and would easily win the ACCCG and the NC.
Uh- okay. 
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Crazy how one player's recruitment could affect a career
Mar 6, 2019, 4:41 PM
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Correct... I can tell that you really understood my point.
Was every recruiting service reporting that the top 5 one and done players were virtually a lock to Clemson?
You definitely aren't comparing apples to oranges or anything. Very insightful post, you fool.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Orange Blooded [2758]
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My two cents thoughts. Though I would have loved to
Mar 6, 2019, 5:59 PM
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have gotten him, and though I thought we had him, put yourself in his shoes. Go to Clemson and become the same one year legend like Skip Wise, or go to Duke with the other two best freshmen in the nation and have the opportunity to get a National Championship ring. In addition, and I have no way of verifying this, but I once read where he grew up a Duke basketball fan.
I agree with another comment that was posted, “Zion coming to Clemson would have almost been equivalent to Trevor going to Duke.” At least he will be a one and done.
I did hear a funny comment today that said Duke’s Senior Night honored a tall skill kid and a walk on.
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