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YOUR BALANCE
We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...
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We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 26, 2020, 10:06 PM

....in my worst nightmare.

1. OL is worse than it was last year. I did not think that was possible.
2. James Blackman, for whatever reason, is clueless.
3. Jordan Travis, his backup, cannot throw the ball well enough to be a QB on a HS JV team.

The defense is the strength of the team only because the offense is horrible.

Norvell's job is a lot harder than I thought it would be, a whole heckuva lot harder.

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You're right. I used to enjoy watching FSU lose. Now it


Sep 26, 2020, 10:08 PM

just makes me sad.

#bad

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 26, 2020, 10:10 PM

Bro, not gonna lie, it’s bottom line, but that means up is the only way to go.

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But, truly, how??


Sep 26, 2020, 10:10 PM

It boggles the mind how there could possibly be sustained underachievement in Tallahassee - do you think it’s still Jimbo’s culture skidmarks or ineptitude in coaching technicalities?

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GO TIGERS


Re: But, truly, how??


Sep 26, 2020, 10:26 PM

I have no evidence to prove this, but it feels like there is something deep-deep in the program. Almost like something has been covered up that lingers.

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Re: But, truly, how??


Sep 27, 2020, 4:53 PM

FSU problems started at the top.

One guy, Andy Miller was the CEO of Seminole Boosters Inc for 40 some odd years. At various times he has been indentified as the most powerful person with respect to FSU athetics. Seminole Boosters had operated independently of FSU Athletic Department, raised money and then spent it where they wanted to spend it. Miller raised a lot of money for FSU, but Jimbo Fisher's boss, the AD could not independently get done what the football program wanted done. Miller is the guy behind bricking up the outside of Doak Campbell. It looks nice at a distance. Inside it's all structural steel and tacky.
Notably when Miller retired a couple of years ago, Seminole Booster was repositioned much closer to the AD. Most people think having one head coach, one Athletic Director and one President/Chancellor is the way to go. Jimbo get a lot of blame for leaving FSU, but he left because he could not get things done to support the program

The AD who hired Willie Taggart made the worst hire possible, and then immediately moved to NCAA headquarters. So FSU has suffered from bad Athletic Leadership.

The President/Chancellor of FSU is a career politician from Florida State government. He knew very little about higher education or University life in general. His bio reports his experience as Lawyer, state legislator, lobbyist, business man....and now President of FSU ??? John Thrasher, the President, talking about his job once said,~"Being President of FSU is like being Mayor of a town were every resident is under the age of 21."

The current AD, hired by Thrasher, is also a career politician whose only qualification for being an AD is that he knew John Thrasher. Early on in the job he said it took him about a year to get what all the acronyms meant and to understand what people were working on.

So the school suffers badly from being in the State Capitol and the political winds that blow to and fro.

FSU spent much of the latter years of Bowden's career there doing nothing, thinking anyone could come into the power Bowden had built and be successful for a long long time. They were wrong.

People talk about Jimbo's toxic culture but Bowden had a lot of silliness going on during his watch. Some of his wins were taken away because of NCAA violation under Bowden. Does everyone remember 1988, the year of the 'Seminole Rap'? Noles were preseason number 1, so instead of getting ready for Miami, they made a video. Then opened the season losing to Miami. The next year the Noles lost their first two games. BOTH of those teams were plenty good enough to win a Natty, but cockiness cost them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUoP9vxGTFA&ab_channel=rakontur

The Noles had a great dynastic run at the top of the sport. But they have always had issues, then Bowden coached too long. Jimbo had a nice run and got another Natty of course, but left the Noles largely because of the politics of FSU

Why are they bad? A long history of poor leadership led to Jimbo walking and the program crashing. Will they come back strong? I dunno. Once upon a time the Sunshine State had Florida, Miami and FSU.
Now Central Florida grabs some talent, USF wants good college ball in Tampa and LOTS of pretty good coaches from inside and outside the state recruit the state well.

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Re: But, truly, how??


Sep 27, 2020, 5:01 PM

In the last 5 years Flordia, Miami, UCF and USF all have had better records than FSU. Over 5 years the Noles have been the 5th best team in Florida. Recruits have short memories, so things may be hard to fix in Tallahassee.

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Re: But, truly, how??


Sep 27, 2020, 9:45 PM [ in reply to Re: But, truly, how?? ]

The influence of politicians makes a lot of sense to me. I think the Chickens suffer some of those same political issues.

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when you don't have a President, Board, Booster club


Sep 27, 2020, 12:30 PM [ in reply to But, truly, how?? ]

Coach, AD all rowing in same direction, it happens. We lived it a while.

Message was edited by: tigertrain®


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Re: when you don't have a President, Board, Booster club


Sep 27, 2020, 12:46 PM

I mean deeper.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 26, 2020, 10:11 PM

It really is a stunning drop for the Seminoles.

I'm old enough to remember thinking I just hope I live long enough to see my Tigers beat FSU again.

ACC really needs the Noles to be a force again. Shocking how far that FSU has fallen. Really no excuse. Hope your boys turn it around sooner than later.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 26, 2020, 10:22 PM

The good news is FSU is surrounded by high school talent. If Norvell was the right hire, he can turn it around relatively quickly.

Contrast this with another former elite who now is bad -Nebraska. There is no obvious path to Nebraska to attract top talent because no one under the age of 25 thinks of them as a national brand. And they no longer play Texas teams so the recruiting ground is cut off for them.

FSU has none of these structural problems. They just need the right coaches and it’s too soon to judge Norvell and his staff.

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Miami looks 'better'... It can happen.***


Sep 26, 2020, 10:25 PM



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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 26, 2020, 10:26 PM

It’s sad Brent but I do believe Travis is the key for y’all. I know he has had a banged up shoulder prior to coming into this game but running him like this won’t help.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 26, 2020, 10:27 PM

Bret it started when you went away from this jersey




And went to this different color with too much going on



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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 8:28 AM

Didn't FSU win the Natty wearing the new revised uniform? I like them, team sucks but they look sharp getting creamed.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 6:45 PM

No they won the Natty in the top uniform and got blown out by Oregon in the semifinals in the bottom uniform. I’ve never thought the color matched the previous jersey.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 26, 2020, 10:30 PM

Bret, since FSU was #### bent to fire/release Bowden and hire Jimbo which worked out well for a few years, where did it all go wrong? HC marital issues? Jameis' impact on self-respecting recruits and their mothers? Other? Appreciate your perspective ...

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 5:33 PM

It was sorta like the perfect storm.

It probably started when Bobby demanded that the school allow him to promote Jeff (Tommy and Terry's little brother) to OC. That was a disaster. Jeff finally resigned (after a 31-0 loss to Wake in the year we went 6-6 and won the Emerald Nuts Bowl).

When Jeff left, Terry convinced Bobby to hire Jimbo as OC. Jimbo was the HC in waiting. Bobby and Jimbo hit it and worked together professionally. But, they are two completely different personalities and have totally different values. When Bobby retired (forced to retire) Jimbo was given the keys to the Cadillac. He drove it well for a few years. Then he decided that he and his agent, Jimmy Sexton, would use his success to get more money from FSU. He flirted with LSU for two consecutive years and used that leverage to get raises and extension.

When aTm blew the huge 4th quarter lead against UCLA (Kevin Sumlin coaching) aTm and Jimmy Sexton started serious negotiations and by the end of September they had hammered out a deal. They just coluldn't announce it that early in the season.

So, Jimbo basically quit on the team. He pulled coaches off the recruiting trail.

When he left, the AD had done virtually no work on hiring his replacement and took about 3 hours (exaggeration) to hire Willie Taggart. Taggart was the ultimate cheerleader. "We're Florida State!" The problem was he couldn't coach.

So, when Norvell was hired, the culture was toxic. And, it obviously is even worse than we thought. The "leader" on defense, Marvin Lewis, spent more time in the off season calling Norvell a liar and showing what a "social justice champion" he was than he did preparing for the season. Same with our best receiver, Tammarion Terry.

I would not be surprised if both announce in the next day or two that they are opting out of the rest of the season to prepare for the NFL draft.

Our recruiting has suffered the past 3 years at least. We have no QB, other than two true freshmen that Norvell recruited capable of playing in the MAC, much less the ACC.

We allegedly have some talent on defense, but they are totally clueless. I hope it is not because these coaches are no better than we had the last two years under Taggart.

So, ling sotry short. We are reaping the whirlwind of what we sewed for several years.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 9:10 PM

That’s the kind of deep I’m talking about. It’s crazy to see a program tumble like that, but FSU is down not out. There is too much history there to not be able to bring it back to life.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 28, 2020, 9:46 AM [ in reply to Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ... ]

Yeah, that sounds like a fellow FSU friend/alum take as well. (FYI - father went to FSU - had too much fun and had to graduate elsewhere). Half of the problem was a shaky internal culture that detonated with Jimbo's disillusion and wondering ways. But hey, winning always covers up the issues.

I think FSU gave-up on Willy to fast. Yeah, I don't think he would have panned out but pulling up the stakes so fast hurt the program as much as Jimbo did. Willie, which not a 10 win coach would have at least spent 4 years cleaning up. Rather it is FSU making a bad decision and then making another rash bad decision. I think that will limit your coaching pool for a very, very long time. Very, very few coaches can both win and clean up a program out of the gate.

I think FSU just pulled in two coaches to "stop the bleeding" and there isn't a first aid station - worse they ripped an underwhelming bandaid before really lining up their next solution. I don't think that Norvell will pull them upright again - and I don't think he was the right pick. He might need MORE time to work than Taggert. Norvell just kept the machine rolling that Fuente built. Fuente can build a program built I think he is fighting his own legacy issues. Norvell has not had to face a situation whereby the players are basically claiming "no confidence" publicly, and had Taggert been around, he might be improving things this year into next.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 26, 2020, 10:48 PM

When Blackmon is still the best QB you can roll out there you know it’s gonna be tough sledding.

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man I hate you had to make that post, but it's true...


Sep 26, 2020, 11:10 PM

I can't believe my eyes on FSU - its bad man, no other way to say it -

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 26, 2020, 11:14 PM

Yeah ... you’re right bud...I hate it for y’all and you...but yeah...it’s really really really bad...I for one hope y’all get it back sooner rather than later!!! God bless brother!!!

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 26, 2020, 11:26 PM

This FSU team is the Tommy West teams of Clemson

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Bret, my friend, I think it may be time to call an exorcist


Sep 26, 2020, 11:32 PM

to get rid of the Jimbo Fisher Poltergeist.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 26, 2020, 11:42 PM

FSU has to get better at the qb position. Last year Miami was horrible and now they look like a top 10 team with the addition of King. Howell decommiting on signing day royally screwed you guys.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 7:37 AM

Tons of respect for FSU program and I love going to Tally for games, but man this is a tear down then rebuild job. So many issues.

I wonder if FSU players start to opt out for the season. Might be the best thing - “addition by subtraction.”

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 8:41 PM

I would not be surprised if Marvin Wilson and Tamarrion Terry opt out tomorrow.

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I suspect that the longer this drought goes on, the more


Sep 27, 2020, 8:15 AM

praise that will ultimately be bestowed upon the Bobby Bowden era. I wonder if the opinion might now be that the decline at the end of his tenure was Bimbo stealing the team from him?

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It only takes a short time for a program to implode,


Sep 27, 2020, 8:19 AM

and years to build it back. The ACC needs a strong FSU.

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"Dabo crushed my soul." --- Classof09


Bret - hate it for you. You’re a good un ..... but I hope


Sep 27, 2020, 8:22 AM

the semiholes lose every game they ever play by at least 50 points.

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Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


Re: Bret - hate it for you. You’re a good un ..... but I hope


Sep 27, 2020, 8:43 PM

I understand your sentiment and do not take it personally. I feel the same way about Florida and Notre Dame. (And Alabama except when they are playing Florida or Notre Dame.)

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 8:31 AM

FSU sold its soul for a Natty. Jumbo, Jamis and all the others you tolerated in the name of just win. It’s a shame as Bobby Bowden was an honorable man who had class. All you had to do was pick a successor who also had class but you chose a different route and it is costing you dearly

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 8:31 AM

FSU sold its soul for a Natty. Jumbo, Jamis and all the others you tolerated in the name of just win. It’s a shame as Bobby Bowden was an honorable man who had class. All you had to do was pick a successor who also had class but you chose a different route and it is costing you dearly

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 8:31 AM

FSU sold its soul for a Natty. Jumbo, Jamis and all the others you tolerated in the name of just win. It’s a shame as Bobby Bowden was an honorable man who had class. All you had to do was pick a successor who also had class but you chose a different route and it is costing you dearly

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 8:31 AM

FSU sold its soul for a Natty. Jumbo, Jamis and all the others you tolerated in the name of just win. It’s a shame as Bobby Bowden was an honorable man who had class. All you had to do was pick a successor who also had class but you chose a different route and it is costing you dearly

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 8:32 AM

FSU sold its soul for a Natty. Jumbo, Jamis and all the others you tolerated in the name of just win. It’s a shame as Bobby Bowden was an honorable man who had class. All you had to do was pick a successor who also had class but you chose a different route and it is costing you dearly

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As I've said before... FSU has a culture problem


Sep 27, 2020, 8:36 AM

that is now a full fledged locker room problem. Jimbo Fisher created a cancerous program (entitlement and "anything goes") whose only remedy is a complete culture change.

Taggart saw the rot but was unable (or incapable) to excise it in his limited tenure. We will never know if Taggart was capable of fixing the FSU culture but one thing is for sure - firing him did not solve their problems.

Enter Norvell who should have, on day one, done a re-model of the FSU program similar in method as Satterfield did at Louisville. Unfortunately, Norvell appeared to slide into the job with a soft touch, avoiding a public cleansing of the program while focusing on the on-field "scheme". That might have worked but then Norvell did one of the worst things any coach can do - got caught and called out for lying by his players. Even though Norvell apologized and the players have supposedly "forgiven" him - he has a credibility problem which will make curing the FSU culture problem even more difficult. As the saying goes - "you never get a second chance to create a first impression". The easiest/quickest route to changing an organization is early in the tenure - not after one has created a headwind as Norvell has done.

At this point, it appears that FSU is a total rebuild - starting with the culture and working its way through the talent\recruiting\on field schemes. That is not a quick fix and the FSU faithful, (who thought it was good that they fire Willie Taggart at the 1.5 year mark) are now seeing that their problems are (and were) not just "coaching".

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Well said.


Sep 27, 2020, 11:36 AM

You hit the nail right on the head!

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 9:10 AM

I felt terrible watching that.

There's no solution. Blackman is shot. He has no confidence in his OL and he's terrified in the pocket...partly because he's so light, but mostly because he knows he's going to get drilled every single play. Your freshman, as you mentioned, can't throw. You have some good wideouts but that's no comfort when you don't have a QB who can deliver the ball to them.

Your DL - actually your front 6, since it looks like you guys were in a 3-3-5 - is terrible. Big, strong...but slow and unathletic. I actually like your DB's but that's the only strong unit on the team and without pressure from your front six even those guys get exposed.

What on Earth happened? The difference between your athletes and Miami's was night and day. On paper those guys shouldn't be that bad.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 9:24 AM

On paper the OL is that bad ...... and worse.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 9:12 AM

No doubt the moles have multiple problems, but it starts with the O Line. Look at their O Line recruiting for the past four years. They got no 5 stars, 3 or 4 four stars and the rest 3 stars. But then dig deeper and look at the position ranking of the 3 stars. A lot of them were / are very low 3 stars. We’re talking about guys that are 30th or 50th at their position and not in the top 400 or 500 players in the nation. Look at the list of other schools that have offered FSU OL recruits. It’s been this way for at least four years. They don’t have any substantial help coming in 2021. It’s very likely the OL is gonna stink in 2021 and possibly part of 2022 also. It doesn’t matter who you have at QB or who your coach is with this type of OL. The entire team, including the defense, collapses into the void where the OL is supposed to be. Not pretty. I feel bad for them, but unless they can coach up the OL like nobody has before, they’re in trouble for a couple more years.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 12:34 PM

Noles, not moles. Sorry for typo.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 9:23 AM

By the way they should name a few buildings after James Blackman. He’s gone through multiple head coaches, four OCs and no offensive of line. He should get a nobel peace prize and the presidential Medal of Honor.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 9:37 AM

Yeah this year you just want to try to find some improvement and have some sort of momentum/identity for going into next year. I think Norvell is a good coach... will take some patience though.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 9:53 AM

Anyone remember Al Golden's last game as Miami coach? They tried the same defensive strategy against DW4 as FSU did last night against King and, like then, it blew up in their faces. Don't allow anything up top and concede short to mid range.

This allowed the Canes to methodically march down the field with little resistance, chew up clock and exhaust the defense.

What I'm saying is coaching was a big part of the problem last night, not just culture and talent. FSU's offense is trash but their defense was misguided.

Their first step seems obvious: Recruit a legit QB and an O-line to protect him.

On defense, get a clue.

I'm sure culture remains an issue, but that wasn't their main problem last night IMO.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 10:20 AM

Jimbo Fisher is responsible for all this. He took a big OL chit on Bobby Bowden’s legacy.

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Is Blackman really the best you have? He’s been there


Sep 27, 2020, 10:26 AM

longer than Hunter was at Clemson.

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Re: Is Blackman really the best you have? He’s been there


Sep 27, 2020, 11:31 AM

Yes, blackman is the best QB at FSU. But that makes no difference. With the talent they have at OL, TLaw, DW4 and Tom Brady on the field at the same time could not lead them to wins. Sims or Howell could not rescue this situation in the next two years. Look at their OL recruiting. It is a disaster.

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Re: We, FSU, is worse than I ever dreamed ...


Sep 27, 2020, 11:38 AM

Maybe they need more crab legs in their diet

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That game was shocking...from a sheer talent standpoint


Sep 28, 2020, 9:23 AM

Miami is just not that much better than FSU. agree on the O-line....completely shocked about FSU D

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Re: That game was shocking...from a sheer talent standpoint


Sep 28, 2020, 9:52 AM

FSU OL talent is so bad there’s nothing to talk about with FSU until they get some OL dudes. Forget about the D, uniforms, culture, Jimbo, Willie, the BOT, etc. Nothing can / will happen until they get a D1 OL. I expect 3 wins this year and 4 or 5 next year.

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