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CU Medallion [60043]
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Yesterday Bernie posts........bwahahahah
Feb 24, 2020, 1:26 PM
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"Education should be a right for all. We must make all public colleges tuition free and cancel all student debt"
That is the highest level of pandering and the highest level of straight idiocy on the Dem ticket. I think he beat Pocahontas at this point.
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Oculus Spirit [97719]
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Ahhh yes, a right. Got to be a right to coerce
Feb 24, 2020, 1:36 PM
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equal protection. Healthcare I would have expected to be higher on his list. Once that's a "right" then everyone has to have equal healthcare. So no private insurance or private healthcare can be tolerated. We must all have equally ###### healthcare.
Same applies to education.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Yesterday Bernie posts........bwahahahah
Feb 24, 2020, 1:36 PM
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Pandering probably. Anyway, he also wants to get rid of all weed convictions on record. That would be cool if Trump did something that bold. Would he ever?
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Imo, simple possession and use of pot should never have...
Feb 24, 2020, 1:49 PM
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become illegal. It was one of our government's most miserable mistakes regarding drugs. I'm ok with locking up dealers if they want stupid high prices but government should never meddle in a man's personal business.
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Lot o points [155906]
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Today, free college from Uncle Sugar
Feb 24, 2020, 1:41 PM
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Tomorrow, mandatory career pathing from uncle Sugar based on how you perform on mandatory aptitude testing.
There's a reason Marx viewed Socialism as a mere rest stop on the highway to Communism.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Conservatives have been licking their chops for...
Feb 24, 2020, 1:46 PM
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nearly a century to run against a communist. Imo, a real socialist is close enough.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Here's what I can't square...If you were someone concerned
Feb 24, 2020, 1:57 PM
[ in reply to Today, free college from Uncle Sugar ] |
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about the President of an entity (In this case Trump) being a Russian asset, WWIII provocateur, and capable of all sorts of other nefarious deeds....Would you then want to put that entity in control of your health insurance? Or any thing else that was highly critical? What if he decided brown people couldn't have insurance? What if he colluded to deny it to them??
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Re: Yesterday Bernie posts........bwahahahah
Feb 24, 2020, 1:43 PM
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ARTICLE 121. Citizens of the U.S.S.R. have the right to education.
This right is ensured by universal, compulsory elementary education; by education, including higher education, being free of charge; by the system of state stipends for the overwhelming majority of students in the universities and colleges; by instruction in schools being conducted in the native language, and by the organization in the factories, state farms, machine and tractor stations and collective farms of free vocational, technical and agronomic training for the working people.
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Legend [19945]
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It doesn't need to be free. Just make it as cheap as when
Feb 24, 2020, 1:46 PM
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Boomers went to college so I can pay my tuition with a part-time summer job like they did.
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All-In [46825]
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Even I have a hard time stretching it to free
Feb 24, 2020, 1:50 PM
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should it cost what it costs to get a 4 year college degree? Absolutely not. I think everybody can agree college tuition has gotten outrageous.
Community colleges and tech schools? Free.
If 4 year public universities like Clemson are made free then we really need to increase the rigor of who can and can't get in.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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Woah woah. It’s a right! Everybody gets equal***
Feb 24, 2020, 2:15 PM
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All-In [26968]
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I disagree with the Senator on this topic.
Feb 24, 2020, 1:55 PM
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Even if it's arguable that education is a right, that doesn't mean that any and all education is a right that the government must guarantee. I don't think a college education is a right of an individual.
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110%er [7207]
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I don't hear anyone across the aisle offering solutions.
Feb 24, 2020, 2:02 PM
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You don't have to agree with the progressives, but don't say that student debt isn't a problem.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Stop loaning money to people who can't pay it back.
Feb 24, 2020, 2:06 PM
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It's way too simple.
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110%er [7207]
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Re: Stop loaning money to people who can't pay it back.
Feb 24, 2020, 2:18 PM
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Do you think loan default is a problem? And not the tuition cost bubble? Or kids being unable to buy houses because of their loan payments? Or how dismal the job market is without a four year degree?
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Mostly gov going spend crazy on tuition...
Feb 24, 2020, 5:20 PM
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causing the bubble. I also think colleges are dumbed down to attract many who would not have qualified for college work 30 years ago. Demand is high and price follows demand.
Yes, loan default is a problem to everyone who defaults on their loan. Why would anyone lend money for a house to people struggling to pay their student loans? What makes people think they can or should buy a house when their income isn't sufficient to pay for it? That's just life.
The jobs market hasn't been this good since the 1960s.
Imo, the biggest problem with education is that it's not a real education. It's just a degree, a piece of paper which is respected less because there are so many floating around.
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Rock Defender [53]
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110%er [7207]
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Re: Seriously
Feb 24, 2020, 2:36 PM
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Why stop at high school? Why not cut em off at 3rd grade? After preschool?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Because at 18 you're considered an adult
Feb 24, 2020, 2:42 PM
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110%er [7207]
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Re: Because at 18 you're considered an adult
Feb 24, 2020, 2:48 PM
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Does the government pay for everything for anyone under 18? I don't have kids so I'd prefer if we kicked all these kids off the government teat and my property taxes can go down.
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Lot o points [155906]
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Man, this is crap. I've typed two long responses to this
Feb 24, 2020, 2:23 PM
[ in reply to I don't hear anyone across the aisle offering solutions. ] |
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topic and t-net ate them both when I clicked "post message".
In a nutshell:
1) Reduce federal subsidies
2) Re-privatize student loans and get the fed. govt out of the lending game
3) Re-introduce HS-level vocational training
Glad to expand on any of the above if you're curious, but I don't trust this site at the moment so being brief.
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110%er [7207]
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T-Net ate my homework.
Feb 24, 2020, 2:31 PM
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While I don't think 3 specifically is a great solution, I don't like the idea of a child choosing a career so young and they already don't learn enough in k through 12, it's at least offering up an alternative to tracking and four year universities.
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Lot o points [155906]
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So the topic was reducing tuition costs, and I'm following
Feb 24, 2020, 2:45 PM
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the breadcrumbs in reverse.
NAFTA happened and over the next few years the US manufacturing sector (and it's associated good-paying blue collar jobs) dried up by quite a bit. By the middle to latter part of the same decade, the dot.com boom officially began as well.
In this same timeframe, presumably as a result of the above, HS vocational training all but dried up. Many kids who never would have gone to college, were now staring at college as their perceived requirement to get anywhere close to where they wanted to be.
Over the first 5 years or so of the aughts, the percent of any given graduating class attending post-college education ticked up by something like 10%. Demand for a college education increased, and colleges responded by thoroughly testing the limits of the supply/demand curve for the cost of a college education.
Bottom line, there are a ton of ways to make a really, really good "blue collar" living in this country, but at the educational level, we've almost made them a taboo topic. Not every kid wants or needs to go to college, and we shouldn't make college such an exclusive route to success for such a kid.
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110%er [7207]
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Re: So the topic was reducing tuition costs, and I'm following
Feb 24, 2020, 2:55 PM
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I prefer to blame the space race for when we decided to let the government tell us we weren't getting enough education and letting standardized tests determine our paths. I know it existed before then, but that seems to be when the college-prep route became prevalent.
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Lot o points [155906]
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Again, I thought we were talking about college education.
Feb 24, 2020, 2:57 PM
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It was an extremely reasonable $3k/year when I graduated in 1998 and didn't start spiking until the 2000's. Just trying to outline a big part of why.
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110%er [7207]
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Lot o points [155906]
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Bruh, I literally just spent a couple posts elaborating
Feb 24, 2020, 3:02 PM
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on the genesis of the current tuition bubble, and in the process directly addressed three of your four questions in that post you linked. Are you trolling?
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110%er [7207]
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Re: Bruh, I literally just spent a couple posts elaborating
Feb 24, 2020, 3:13 PM
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No, I keep trying to tell you that I half agree with you. The lack of alternatives is a big issue, but we have a service based economy so more shop class isn't going to keep those jobs filled. The same thing with tuition costs where sure demand is partly responsible for it, but so are lack of State funding and the fact that the aforementioned lack of alternatives means that colleges don't compete using price.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Guess where the "lack of state funding" comes from
Feb 24, 2020, 3:35 PM
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Lot o points [155906]
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That's old school thinking though, no offense.
Feb 24, 2020, 3:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: Bruh, I literally just spent a couple posts elaborating ] |
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Vocational training in 2020 doesn't have to equal small engine repair and wood shop. For instance, we should be teaching coding across the board in HS to any kid that wants it. Robotics, 3D printing, and CAD could also be much more prevalent in the HS curriculum.
As for state funding, there is some legitimate debate over whether it's as big a decline as has been reported across the board. Haven't made my mind up yet, but I do know that in almost every chart I've seen, tuition increases outpaced any amount of funding decreases, and that gap was more than made up for in 2008 when Pell Grants skyrocketed.
https://files.texaspolicy.com/uploads/2019/10/21124414/Gillen-The-Myth-of-State-Disinvestment-in-Higher-Education.pdf
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: That's old school thinking though, no offense.
Feb 24, 2020, 3:48 PM
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Lot o points [155906]
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I think you missed the biggest one though.
Feb 24, 2020, 3:58 PM
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Imagine what would happen to the price of housing if anyone could borrow ridiculous amounts of money for their mortgage, and creditworthiness was irrelevant to whether the loan was made? Wait, you don't have to imagine, just see the bubble leading up to 2008.
That's exactly what happened when the govt got into the student loan game, effectively eliminating private lenders (and their more cautious lending standards) from the industry. Now anyone can borrow amounts that previously seemed unimaginable, and if that's not enough, they'll give the parents a PLUS loan as well. The cost of education reacted exactly like the cost of housing did.
Biggest difference is that the borrower IS the secured collateral on the loan instead of a house, as they can't declare bankruptcy. Obama should take much, much, much more heat over this than he has, as he not only helped tuitions skyrocket, but created a modern day debtors prison in the process as part of the student loan agreement.
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110%er [7207]
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Re: That's old school thinking though, no offense.
Feb 24, 2020, 3:50 PM
[ in reply to That's old school thinking though, no offense. ] |
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Like I said, I think the vocational aspect has the right intention, I just have issues with the how. Like what are you giving up to fit this into a HS curriculum? And is what they're giving up going to screw them down the road if they decide they aren't happy in that career? I remember Barker preaching about kids changing majors being a big factor for why students were taking longer to graduate, do we really want 14 and 15 year-olds making those choices?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: That's old school thinking though, no offense.
Feb 24, 2020, 4:01 PM
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110%er [7207]
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Re: That's old school thinking though, no offense.
Feb 24, 2020, 4:09 PM
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This all sounds like good stuff, yet it seems like each new Clemson freshman class is the largest ever.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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Teaching coding will be pointless in a few years.
Feb 24, 2020, 3:53 PM
[ in reply to That's old school thinking though, no offense. ] |
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Everyone clamoring about IA replacing jobs...coding will be one of the few jobs that IA will be able to easily replace.
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Lot o points [155906]
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look, maybe you're worried about kids in
Feb 24, 2020, 3:58 PM
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Iowa taking our jobs....not me.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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Nah...but what I'm saying is coding will go the way of buggy
Feb 24, 2020, 4:20 PM
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whip makers if IA really ever takes off the way many seem to think it will.
Our company is dumping millions into it and it doesn't even do basi screen scraping very well with out fouling up, so I think its going to be a awhile.
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Legend [15749]
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Is this data correct?
Feb 24, 2020, 2:37 PM
[ in reply to I don't hear anyone across the aisle offering solutions. ] |
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According to Google, the average college graduate who takes on debt graduates with just under $38k in debt, and the average college graduate makes $1.3 million more over their careers than a non-graduate. Seems like a good situation.
For me, when a candidate starts talking Debt Forgiveness, that’s a no-go. Feel free to restructure the debt at lower rates if possible.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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do I have a right to go to law school? Med school?***
Feb 24, 2020, 2:03 PM
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110%er [7207]
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Barber college? Clown college?***
Feb 24, 2020, 2:04 PM
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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I guess the government gets to decide who goes where
Feb 24, 2020, 2:08 PM
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I seem to remember that in the Soviet model.
But, but, but. THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT!
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110%er [8984]
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Re: I guess the government gets to decide who goes where
Feb 24, 2020, 2:35 PM
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going to be different this time, bernie has been tweaking the model for 50 years, its perfect!
that incentive part though is a real tuff nut to crack without work camps and beatings
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Legend [15749]
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110%er [7207]
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Is today rhetorical question day?***
Feb 24, 2020, 2:56 PM
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All-In [47750]
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The only college Bernie would pay for now is
Feb 24, 2020, 2:47 PM
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the electoral college
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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I applied there straight out of highschool...
Feb 24, 2020, 4:56 PM
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and was flatly rejected for not being able to spell.
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110%er [6101]
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Re: Yesterday Bernie posts........bwahahahah
Feb 24, 2020, 4:07 PM
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Like it or not, the colleges in this country are indoctrinating our young people on the “ills of capitalism” and the promise of free stuff.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Yesterday Bernie posts........bwahahahah
Feb 24, 2020, 5:04 PM
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Yeah, strange. 22 other countries on earth offer free college tuition to their citizens,(none of them communist), but there is absolutely no way America could figure out how to do that. We're clearly too stupid to pull it off and shouldn't even consider it.
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Rock Defender [53]
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22 potential destinations for you Felix
Feb 24, 2020, 5:14 PM
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