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Mascot [24]
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CU Guru [1925]
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Sigh
Jul 7, 2015, 2:43 PM
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Because this we need.
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All-TigerNet [11161]
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I'd bet on it being the same people who vandalized yesterday
Jul 7, 2015, 2:43 PM
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This is a designed provocation for media attention to the Tillman name.
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110%er [6869]
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Would not doubt it one bit that the ones promoting....
Jul 7, 2015, 2:56 PM
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name change are the ones behind this. Just trying to incite and draw attention. Stay above the fray Clemson BOT.
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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oh, right. because of course all the real racist trash
Jul 7, 2015, 4:33 PM
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are currently standing in front of the state house flying the confederate flag, right?
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CU Medallion [51752]
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CU Guru [1003]
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CU Medallion [56580]
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Legend [15492]
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All-TigerNet [11161]
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It's at least as plausible as it being retaliation.
Jul 7, 2015, 9:42 PM
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It's also equally likely that I don't support racism and just think this is provocation. Open your mind, dude.
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Legend [18499]
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They will catch this guy, but not The Rock vandal !***
Jul 7, 2015, 2:53 PM
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CU Medallion [58309]
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I wonder how many people who support flying the flag
Jul 7, 2015, 3:07 PM
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actually know that contrary to what they believe or have been told, that the confederacy existed for one reason - to preserve the institution of slavery? If you want a symbol that represents southern heritage, pick one that wasn't carried into battle by an army fighting for the right to own other human beings.
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CU Guru [1003]
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Re: I wonder how many people who support flying the flag
Jul 7, 2015, 3:13 PM
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The PC is strong with you
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CU Medallion [58309]
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PC? Not by a looooong shot. It's just a fact; why do so many
Jul 7, 2015, 3:18 PM
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deny it?
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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Either white guilt or ...
Jul 7, 2015, 3:59 PM
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The Confederate flag represents a sharp stick in the eye of black Americans. To most that's a bad thing, but to some it is a good thing.
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CU Medallion [58309]
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I figure most folks who support keeping the flag flying
Jul 7, 2015, 4:24 PM
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and who also support the memory of the confederacy are good people, and like I was until not so long ago, mistakenly believed that the civil war was not about slavery, but rather the south broke away from the north because of "states rights" and unfair tariffs and taxation and other such nonsense. That's what I had always been told, and never really questioned it, even when it wasn't taught that way in school; I just wrote that off as liberal propaganda, a re-writing of history. Then one day, I actually read the stated reasons for secession, the actual words that were put on paper after careful forethought and consideration, and were my eyes opened. After reading the documents submitted by South Carolina, and all of the seceding states, the reason for secession was perfectly clear. Yes, they used some flowery language to make their case, while some were more direct than others, but the singular reason is very plain, as there was no PC police, no sociology department at the local university, and no liberal mass media with which to reckon; they had no reason to hide or cloak their intentions, and they didn't.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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Don't you think that all people now understand why the war
Jul 7, 2015, 4:51 PM
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was actually fought and/or how offensive so many people find that flag to be? I guess I just don't think there is anybody left that doesn't understand one or both of those points.
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CU Medallion [58309]
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I know a lot of people who don't. They are ignorant and/or
Jul 7, 2015, 5:23 PM
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in complete denial. They have done one (or all) of three things.
1. Rationalized slavery somehow as a good thing for the slaves.
2. Believe that slavery played a small and insignificant role.
3. Just choose to block it out and focus on "the good ole days of the south" and the confederacy.
Then there are some who do know, and are simply racists who don't give a rip.
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110%er [6132]
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110%er [6155]
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I support flying the flag just because it pisses people off.
Jul 7, 2015, 7:35 PM
[ in reply to I figure most folks who support keeping the flag flying ] |
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What it really means has no importance to me whatsoever. Ultimately, it's only a piece of cloth.
We have a WEAK governor. I'm very disappointed in Nikki Haley. She should have swiftly said "no" and then moved on. That's the only way to deal with the PC crowd. Better yet, take the flag down and put up a bigger one.
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CU Medallion [58309]
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Whether it's PC or not has nothing to do with whether or not
Jul 7, 2015, 8:41 PM
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it's the right or wrong thing to do. I couldn't care less what the PC crowd thinks. If they so happen to have gotten it right this time, then good for them.
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Legend [19879]
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Re: I support flying the flag just because it pisses people off.
Jul 7, 2015, 10:01 PM
[ in reply to I support flying the flag just because it pisses people off. ] |
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Do you also fly a Nazi flag? Why not? I bet it would #### off a lot of people. Seems right up your alley, no? It's just a piece of cloth, so what it means is of no importance to you, right?
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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110%er [5699]
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Actually 18 times, I posted a link yesterday.
Jul 7, 2015, 7:29 PM
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Agree with your point.
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CU Guru [1482]
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Trainer [42]
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CU Medallion [58309]
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We can say it represents Disney World or a tree stump.
Jul 7, 2015, 3:28 PM
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What it actually was, was a battle flag carried by an army that was fighting for the confederacy, which existed to preserve slavery.
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CU Guru [1116]
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Re: We can say it represents Disney World or a tree stump.
Jul 7, 2015, 4:44 PM
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Slavery at the time was great
for the Blacks because it got
them out of their pitiful existence
in that wonderful continent of Africa. The slaves in the South were taken care by their owners because they needed to be healthy to work.
Read W.J Cash's ,"Mind of The South".
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CU Medallion [58309]
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By that logic, it would be okay to enslave people today
Jul 7, 2015, 5:16 PM
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if their current living conditions were bad enough. After all, they'd be "better off". Please don't try to rationalize slavery, or point out how it benefitted the slaves. Please.
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110%er [5699]
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CU Medallion [64517]
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CU Medallion [58309]
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Now see, there's an idea that not only meets, but exceeds
Jul 7, 2015, 3:29 PM
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all criteria.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I'm not one of those who deny Slavery as the key issue
Jul 8, 2015, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to I wonder how many people who support flying the flag ] |
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of secession but to say that the only reason the Confederacy existed was to continue slavery is not true. There was a general political and cultural divide between North and South. Slavery was obviously the hot issue and the biggest practical difference, but Southern states wanted more autonomy from the federal government for a variety of other reasons, both economical and political.
Your claim is similar to saying that the entire reason for the existence of the U.S. was because of taxation without representation. That was obviously a key focal point... but it wasn't the only reason for the American Revolution.
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Heisman Winner [133443]
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Re: Confederate Flag raised in front of Tillman Hall
Jul 7, 2015, 3:08 PM
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All of this needs to stop. Possibly hurt recruiting. This is bad PR for Clemson.
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CU Medallion [51752]
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Re: Confederate Flag raised in front of Tillman Hall
Jul 7, 2015, 3:13 PM
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That could be what is behind all of this.
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All-TigerNet [11161]
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Freshman [1]
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this is not Clemson!!!
Jul 7, 2015, 3:46 PM
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When will the madness stop? I do not support the Confederate flag flying on the statehouse grounds, I believe that it belongs in a Museum but certainly not forgotten. Just because it stands for something that isn't favorable in most people's minds it still does not mean that it should be forgotten, and it should certainly not be "erased". I don't agree with the personal opinions of Mr. Tillman (from what I have heard of the man) but I do appreciate his contributions to our great University. He deserves to have Tillman hall named after him and that should not change. We should never stoop to a level that we deface our school...Leave that kind of behavior where it belongs...In Columbia! Go Tigers!!!
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Why are police investigating who put the flag up?
Jul 7, 2015, 3:52 PM
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Is it illegal to put a flag up? I don't remember being told that at orientation.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Political correctness will broaden the definition of a...
Jul 8, 2015, 12:59 PM
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hate crime. Eventually people will get into legal trouble for being misinterpreted as a racist. The witch hunt is coming. We had one with Communism, we have one with Terrorism, we will have one for racism.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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Notice the outrage when Tillman was spraypainted, but this
Jul 7, 2015, 3:54 PM
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creates hardly a stir.
Hmmmmm.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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One is vandalism, the other is political speech
Jul 7, 2015, 3:57 PM
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If someone spray painted the flag on Tillman, I'd understand the anger.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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The reaction to the lady removing the flag from the monument
Jul 7, 2015, 4:02 PM
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versus the reaction to this proves your point is not valid.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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I love both of those pictures. Unfortunately, some
Jul 7, 2015, 4:14 PM
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are easily offended and homophobic and find the second one offensive.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Or you shouldn't compare the two
Jul 7, 2015, 4:27 PM
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One group fought and died for our freedom, the other won a court case for their own benefit. I think you'll find some veterans who disagree with you.
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Legend [19879]
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Are you suggesting that GLBT haven't fought and died as well?***
Jul 7, 2015, 4:43 PM
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Legend [19879]
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Because, well, you'd be wrong***
Jul 7, 2015, 4:44 PM
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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If you think what they go through is the same as fighting in
Jul 7, 2015, 4:48 PM
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WW2, you're a typical liberal tool and there's no point in arguing. I appreciate the men who fought and died so I could be free. I don't care one bit about a bunch of guys who won a court case so they could marry some other guys. That has zero impact on my life, or the lives of 90% of Americans. You should be glad the Nazis didn't win WW2 because then there would be a LOT of dead gay dudes. Just saying.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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The Marines at Iwo Jima fought and died so we could all be
Jul 7, 2015, 4:59 PM
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free. Not just some of us. None of us had to go through what they went through. I think the picture pays homage to their sacrifices.
If you find that picture offensive, you just searching for something to be offended by. I think it says more about you than anything else.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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It demeans what our troops went through
Jul 7, 2015, 5:05 PM
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I'm saying if you're going to be offended by a flag, that's the one to be offended by. But even our vets aren't getting all up in arms over it, because getting butt hurt over a symbol and whining and complaining about crap that happened 150 years ago is something that leftists do. All I was saying is that if you ARE going to get offended over a flag incident, that's the one to get offended over... someone belittling what our troops did by comparing it to a selfish court battle for marriage equality. I personally think both should stand, and I just won't look at the one where a court case is compared to defeating Nazis. You think the gay one should stand and the confederate flag should be banned. So you're the hypocrite, not me.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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I don't see how that picture is belittling our troops.
Jul 7, 2015, 5:18 PM
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I see it as a sign of respect. That's why you haven't heard an outcry from them about it.
The Marines were fighting for freedom for all people. The LGBT community wanted to share in that freedom that they had been denied for so long. The Confederates were fighting for white supremacy and the enslavement of people. Freedom vs. enslavement. Only a jaundiced eye can't see that distinction.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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The confederate troops were fighting an out of control
Jul 7, 2015, 5:21 PM
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federal government. They were fighting to keep America as a republic with states having more rights, so that a federal government couldn't shred our constitution and trample our liberty. You know, kind of like what is happening right now.
Either way, it's a symbol that people believe in. Don't like it, look away, just like the vets have to look away from the horrible photo comparing their sacrifices with gay marriage equality.
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Legend [19879]
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Re: The confederate troops were fighting an out of control
Jul 7, 2015, 5:28 PM
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Yes, they were fighting for states' rights.. the rights to enslave and oppress human beings.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Cotton gin was going to make slaves obsolete anyway
Jul 7, 2015, 5:31 PM
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The fight had little to do with slavery and more to do with freedom and liberty.
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Legend [19879]
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Right, because cotton was the only industry slaves were used in
Jul 7, 2015, 5:34 PM
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Sure..
Fun fact: I'm related to the guy who supposedly invented the cotton gin.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Yep...
Jul 7, 2015, 5:41 PM
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Life, liberty and the pursuit of property. All those things your socialist government is trying to outlaw.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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"The pursuit of property."
Jul 7, 2015, 5:43 PM
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You just can't make this stuff up.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Typical liberal move
Jul 7, 2015, 5:48 PM
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Mock those I disagree with.
Look, if you and JD404 want to get married to each other, 4 sheep and 3 cows I could care less. Have at it, man. If you want to be socialists who want an all powerful federal government, believe what you want. But there's really no reason to mock people who have traditional values and love the America that was set up to get away from tyrrany, an America where the government feared the people, not the other way around, an America where a small portion of your money was taken to build roads and schools, not one where the government is nice enough to let you keep a portion of your money after giving it to people who did nothing to earn it. Sorry if not being a tool for an all powerful government is laughable to you.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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If you justify slavery as freedom and the rule of law, then
Jul 7, 2015, 5:58 PM
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you deserve to be mocked.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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If the north didn't like slavery,
Jul 7, 2015, 6:03 PM
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they could have passed a law against it and given the owners payment to make up for their loss. But the socialist way of doing things is just to decree laws into being when you can't get your legislation passed. i.e. Obama's immigration legislation. Again, you're okay with trampling states rights and the basis for our country, and I'm not. That's fine if you want to be a socialist, just be honest and don't act like I'm the radical for wanting exactly what our founding fathers wanted, freedom from a dictator.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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This conversation reminds me of Lee Atwater and The Southern
Jul 7, 2015, 6:14 PM
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Strategy and why it is still alive today. Anyone who reads these posts has learned a lot about you today. Very revealing. It's good to get you on record with these positions.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Good to get you on record as a socialist
Jul 7, 2015, 6:39 PM
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who loves a tyrannical, massive federal government.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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The self declared reasons for Secession as stated in the
Jul 7, 2015, 5:33 PM
[ in reply to The confederate troops were fighting an out of control ] |
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Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union? You can read it for yourself if you truly are interested in enlightening yourself: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp
It's pretty straight forward - Establish the basis in The Constitution to hold slaves as property and to be able to travel to other states with their property and not have their property placed at risk as they traveled through non-slave states and to prevent non-slave states from encouraging slaves to flee. They were fighting against other states' rights to NOT enslave people. The states rights argument is a lie.
The first power they claim as a new nation is the ability to wage war.
Good stuff near the end that sounds familiar today.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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They were saying that the north was violating their state
Jul 7, 2015, 5:39 PM
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right to own and transport slaves. That the north was stealing private property from citizens of the south, which is true. While I think slavery is wrong, I also feel that a government taking private property from a citizen is wrong. Sort of like forcing people to purchase health care they don't want is wrong. Sort of like ending the right to freedom of expression is wrong. Sort of like what is about to happen with gun legislation is wrong. All symptoms of an out of control federal government. You know, the one Jefferson warned us about. Oh, yea, he owned slaves so we can't take him seriously.
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Legend [19879]
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Re: They were saying that the north was violating their state
Jul 7, 2015, 5:43 PM
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No one has a "right" to own slaves. Human beings are not "private property." I don't care what any law says to the contrary, personally.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Cool, so you're against the rule of law
Jul 7, 2015, 5:44 PM
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Sound like a liberal to me.
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Legend [19879]
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So were the founding fathers, I guess
Jul 7, 2015, 5:53 PM
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I'm pretty sure the American Revolution was illegal according to British law.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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We declared independence.
Jul 7, 2015, 5:57 PM
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That's legal. They chose to fight us, we won. Pretty sure that's a lot different than taking private property bc you don't like a law.
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Legend [19879]
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Re: They were saying that the north was violating their state
Jul 7, 2015, 5:51 PM
[ in reply to They were saying that the north was violating their state ] |
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Last time I checked, we still have the right to free speech and guns are still everywhere. Nobody is forcing you to buy health insurance.. you just have to pay a tax penalty if you refuse. Kinda like how nobody is forcing you to drive the speed limit, but you better be ready to pay the ticket when you get caught speeding.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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No, because you don't have to drive
Jul 7, 2015, 5:56 PM
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You HAVE to buy health care or pay a fine. Talk about tyranny... you literally have to choose between buying something you don't want or paying a huge fine. And you're okay with that?
As far as freedom of speech... not so much. Try driving around with a confederate flag on your car. Try opening a bakery and not wanting to bake a cake for a gay wedding that goes against your religion.
And we have guns... for now. But don't act like you and your socialist buddies aren't just dying to take all of them. You're already making ammo harder to get.
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Associate AD [819]
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Nobody is coming for yer guns.
Jul 7, 2015, 5:58 PM
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You paranoid wingnuts bought up the bullets in preparation of Obama being sworn in and let me ask you something. What is different today in the gun buying world than January of 2009? Please share.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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How about Obama saying we need strict gun legislation
Jul 7, 2015, 6:08 PM
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any time any crazy person shoots up a place? Don't act like the president calling for gun legislation isn't a sign that the second amendment is under attack. The proof is in the pudding. Go out and try to buy a few cases of .22 ammo. People are concerned over future changes to gun laws.
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Associate AD [819]
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LOL....you wingnuts have been
Jul 7, 2015, 6:12 PM
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"concerned" since late 2008 and again, what changes have occurred? In fact, other than paranoia, name me any significant changes over the last 20 years in the ability to obtain a gun? I'm always all ears to hear more about all these gun rights that have been stripped.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Joined: 1/14/11
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Associate AD [819]
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Joined: 11/25/14
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NYC.....excellent example....
Jul 7, 2015, 8:00 PM
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You'll have to refresh my memory. Are those federal government mandated gun laws that were imposed in NYC or was it their choice to do that on their own?
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110%er [7011]
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Re: Nobody is coming for yer guns.
Jul 7, 2015, 9:31 PM
[ in reply to Nobody is coming for yer guns. ] |
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slow and steady...their assault on the 2nd amendment is a reality
Surely you aren't that naive
They will never give up...its part of the plan
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Associate AD [819]
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Who is they? What is the plan?
Jul 7, 2015, 9:57 PM
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And like I asked the other fella, give me some examples how your gun rights have been stripped by the federal government? If I'm naive, then I'll label you another paranoid wingnut. Deal? Sweet.
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110%er [7011]
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Re: Who is they? What is the plan?
Jul 8, 2015, 12:00 AM
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I don't recall saying mine have been stripped
I am referring to the obvious end game (obvious to anyone)...more regulation - making it difficult to exercise
dont do back and forths with know it alls...so peace
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Associate AD [819]
TigerPulse: 74%
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The know it all would be you that seems
Jul 8, 2015, 12:34 AM
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to know the "end game" but really can't cite anything at all for how this end game is being played out. Back to the "obvious to anyone" aka "naive" stuff.....shoot me a T Mail when yer gun rights are gone. It was supposed to have happened by the end of Obama's first term. I don't do back and forths with know it alls, either, especially the gun nuts that can't express a single piece of legislation that has passed that has reduced any sane law abiding person from obtaining a weapon.
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Freshman [7]
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Re: The self declared reasons for Secession as stated in the
Jul 7, 2015, 6:48 PM
[ in reply to The self declared reasons for Secession as stated in the ] |
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I,m a proud southerner who didn't care whether the flag was taken down or not. then I thought how would Jews feel if it was the Nazi flag?
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Legend [19879]
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I appreciate your honesty in admitting
Jul 7, 2015, 5:07 PM
[ in reply to If you think what they go through is the same as fighting in ] |
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that granting equal marriage rights to everyone has no real impact on your own (heterosexual) life. A lot of anti-gay bigots seem to have convinced themselves otherwise.
I do think that only caring about things that affect you personally is kind of a sad way to go through life, though. If everyone felt that way, I think society would suffer. Imagine a civil rights movement with zero support from white Americans, etc.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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I don't equate gay rights with the civil rights movement
Jul 7, 2015, 5:11 PM
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I think that's also not the same thing. To compare what gays have gone through with what black people went through is ridiculous. For the last 10 years or so people have caught more hell for saying being gay is wrong than saying it's right. The media skews a few incidents and makes people who fit their cause out to be martyrs. I just don't think the struggle is the same. Sorry. If I felt like a group of people were being discriminated against the way blacks were, or Jews were in Germany I'll get involved. If you want to marry another dude, or a goat, or 4 chicks, I'm just gonna stay out of it.
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Hall of Famer [22380]
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While blacks have been treated more harshly, they both
Jul 7, 2015, 5:24 PM
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are issues of civil rights and equal protection under the law. Your posts seem to be revealing your true feelings about homosexuals more than anything about the Confederate flag or honoring our soldiers sacrifices.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Typical liberal move
Jul 7, 2015, 5:26 PM
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Don't agree with my argument, you're a bigot. Grow up. I'm not a bigot, I just appreciate our troops and don't care about marriage equality.
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CU Guru [1003]
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Re: Because, well, you'd be wrong***
Jul 7, 2015, 5:15 PM
[ in reply to Because, well, you'd be wrong*** ] |
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Well heres the thing..you bleeding heart liberals might not like my flag and that's absolutely fine..but that rainbow flag you seem to love so much is a slap in the face to God...I think I ll stay on my side. BTW...I think it's disgusting that you view the two "raising of the flag" pictures as equal...shame on you
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Legend [19879]
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By "your flag" I assume you mean the Confederate flag?
Jul 7, 2015, 5:24 PM
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Yeah, you can have that one. I think I'll stick with the good ol' Stars 'n Stripes.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Joined: 1/14/11
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Legend [15863]
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Complete failure if that area usn't under complete surveil
Jul 8, 2015, 4:23 AM
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easy fix
easy catch
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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You know this was done by those who want the name changed.***
Jul 8, 2015, 11:56 AM
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