|
Replies: 14
| visibility 1,228
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Basketball Team Progress Under Brownell
Feb 18, 2020, 1:17 PM
|
|
Just wanted to quickly compare the roster in year 2 under Brownell with our roster going into next year (barring no injuries or transfers) The reason I am using year 2, is year 1 was w/ Purnell's players and Brownell didn't have a recruiting class in year 1.
2011-2012 Starters
PG: Andre Young Sr.
SG: Tanner Smith Sr.
SF: Milton Jennings Jr.
PF: Brian Narcisse Sr.
C: Devin Booker Jr.
Notable back ups: Rod Hall (Fr.), KJ McDaniels (Fr.), Catelin Baciu (Sr.)
2020-2021 Projected Starters
PG: Al Amir Dawes Soph.
SG: Clyde Trapp Sr.
SF: John Newman Jr.
PF: Aamir Simms Sr.
C: PJ Hall/Trey Jemison Fr./Jr.
Notable Back ups: Hunter Tyson (Jr.), Khavon Moore (Jr.), Alex Hemingway (Soph), Jonathan Baehre (Jr.), Chase Hunter (Soph), Nick Honor (Soph), Prosper (Fr.)
Despite the lack of tourney appearances (apparently the only metric Brownell haters care about), you can't deny the progress as far as talent goes on the team. We only had 1 back up big man and it was Catelin Baciu! Bryan Narcisse was a starter! Trying not to hate because I loved Narcisse.
Notice how all the starters on the 2011 team were all Juniors and Seniors. Keep in mind we didn't have any sophomores. Do you really think OP left Brownell a good team?
I would actually bet that our back ups from next year's team would beat the 2011 team.
If we were fielding the same level of talent as the 2011 team going into next year, there's no doubt I would want to part ways with Brownell. But it is not and quite frankly we are going to be a VERY good basketball team next year (by Clemson standards)
|
|
|
|
 |
CU Medallion [65416]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33245
Joined: 12/3/03
|
So, Wait until next year, again?
Feb 18, 2020, 1:19 PM
|
|
I do not believe a change will be made until after next year, if then. Death by a Thousand Cuts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: So, Wait until next year, again?
Feb 18, 2020, 1:27 PM
|
|
No, I have stated many times that next year is tourney or bust. If we don't make the tourney next year we need to part ways.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Commissioner [963]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 828
Joined: 10/31/16
|
Re: Basketball Team Progress Under Brownell
Feb 18, 2020, 2:27 PM
|
|
Assuming Baerhe comes back next year (some had previously rumored a pursuit of a professional career overseas, due to his already-advanced age, but I think he now has something to prove after the two ACL injuries), next year will be, by far, Brownell's deepest team at Clemson. It won't even be close.
PG: Honor, Dawes
SG: Trapp, Hemenway, Hunter
SF: Newman, Moore, Prosper
PF: Simms, Tyson, Hall
C: Baehre, Jemison
Simms and Baehre will be interchangeable posts (who can also both play on the perimeter), which, in the motion offense, will be deadly for opposing defenses.
BY FAR the deepest team we've had under Brownell.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: Basketball Team Progress Under Brownell
Feb 18, 2020, 4:55 PM
|
|
I am really interested in Baehre. Before he tore his ACL, I read that he was one of the best players on the team in practices.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: Basketball Team Progress Under Brownell
Feb 19, 2020, 9:04 AM
|
|
Interesting at how little response this thread has gotten.
I guess when you post indisputable facts that are positive for Brownell, the haters don't have much to say.
The fact that a team consisting of our back ups next year is arguably more talented than the team Brownell was "handed" in his second year is stunning, and just proves how dumb the Brownell haters are.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [140464]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33863
Joined: 12/5/10
|
Re: Basketball Team Progress Under Brownell
Feb 19, 2020, 9:13 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: Basketball Team Progress Under Brownell
Feb 19, 2020, 9:19 AM
|
|
Uhhhh what? Do you think that I'm trolling?
To be clear... If you want Brownell fired now then yes, I do believe you are stupid.
Cool pic though!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [140464]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33863
Joined: 12/5/10
|
Re: Basketball Team Progress Under Brownell
Feb 19, 2020, 10:40 AM
|
|
1) Yes.
2) I do not think CBB should be fired this season.
3) Thank you.
PS: I think you misused the word "fact". The roster would be a fact. The "I would actually bet that our back ups from next year's team would beat the 2011 team." part would be an opinion. I think you are asking for discussion on your opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: Basketball Team Progress Under Brownell
Feb 19, 2020, 10:58 AM
|
|
Francis Marion always coming in with productive takes
I'm glad you clarified the definition of a fact, as you seemed confused by my previous post.
It's also not a fact that Clemson football is better than South Carolina State. But I think we all know who is better right?
I will try to do better in the future. I'm very sorry.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8681]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8888
Joined: 10/19/11
|
Re: Basketball Team Progress Under Brownell
Feb 19, 2020, 9:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: Basketball Team Progress Under Brownell ] |
|
Lol at calling your opinion an "indisputable fact." Also it's cute how you try to downplay the importance of making the NCAA tournament.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: Basketball Team Progress Under Brownell
Feb 19, 2020, 10:00 AM
|
|
1. If you don't think it's an indisputable fact, then dispute it... Which team would you take from a talent standpoint?
2. I literally said that if we don't make the tourney next year we need to part ways. I'm assuming you missed that?
Thanks for calling me cute though. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27366]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 26233
Joined: 9/19/11
|
We're medicocre. AGAIN. For ten years. What else matters?
Feb 19, 2020, 10:57 AM
|
|
Nothing.
Period.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44042]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
Mediocre for 10 years?
Feb 19, 2020, 11:02 AM
|
|
You must've missed our Sweet 16 appearance less than 2 years ago. This was one of our best Clemson basketball teams EVER, and it was without arguably our most important player in Donte Grantham. It was an excellent coaching job by Brownell.
This year is another excellent coaching job by Brownell. We have some excellent young talent on this year's team, with more on the way. If you can't see the positive changes over the past few years, I'm sad for you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Commissioner [963]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 828
Joined: 10/31/16
|
Re: We're medicocre. AGAIN. For ten years. What else matters?
Feb 20, 2020, 9:11 AM
[ in reply to We're medicocre. AGAIN. For ten years. What else matters? ] |
|
If you refuse to see the upward trend in momentum for the program over the last four seasons, then you just won't see it, and that's unfortunate.
It's important for Radakovich to realize (and I think he does) that the clock used to evaluate return on investment (in Brad Brownell's basketball program at Clemson University) starts at the 2016-17 season, unlike what most fans here want to claim (10 years). The 2016-17 year marks the opening of the renovated and improved Littlejohn Coliseum (arena, locker rooms, player amentities, practice spaces, recruiting spaces, coaches offices, etc.), as well as the addition of specific support staff positions that had not previously existed.
2010-11
Predicted ACC Finish (12 Teams): 7th
Actual ACC Finish: 4th
Record: 22-12 (9-7)
Postseason: NCAA Tournament (1-1, Round Of 64)
2011-12
Predicted ACC Finish (12 Teams): 7th
Actual ACC Finish: 7th
Record: 16-15 (8-8)
Postseason: None
2012-13
Predicted ACC Finish (12 Teams): 8th
Actual ACC Finish: 11th
Record: 13-18 (5-13)
Postseason: None
2013-14
Predicted ACC Finish (15 Teams): 14th
Actual ACC Finish: 6th
Record: 23-13 (10-8)
Postseason: NIT (3-1, Semifinals)
2014-15
Predicted ACC Finish (15 Teams): 11th
Actual ACC Finish: 8th
Record: 16-15 (8-10)
Postseason: None
2015-16
Predicted ACC Finish (15 Teams): 12th
Actual ACC Finish: 7th
Record: 17-14 (10-8)
Postseason: None
**Renovated Littlejohn Coliseum Opens
**Staff Support Positions Created
2016-17
Predicted ACC Finish (15 Teams): 11th
Actual ACC Finish: 12th
Record: 17-16 (6-12)
Postseason: NIT (0-1, First Round)
2017-18
Predicted ACC Finish (15 Teams): 13th
Actual ACC Finish: 3rd
Record: 25-10 (11-7)
Postseason: NCAA Tournament (2-1, Sweet 16)
2018-19
Predicted ACC Finish (15 Teams): 6th
Actual ACC Finish: 8th
Record: 20-14 (9-9)
Postseason: NIT (1-1, Second Round)
2019-20
Predicted ACC Finish (15 Teams): 11th
Actual ACC Finish: ???
Record: ???
Postseason: ???
With that understood, I think it's easier to look at the last 3+ seasons with a reasonable lens as to what has actually took place within the program, evaluating fairly in finding the answer to that question of return-on-investment.
With that being said, plenty of fans voiced their apprehensions about the program for this season, considering the experience that was lost after last season (Reed, Mitchell, Thomas, Skara, White). That's a lot of production for any program to try to replace. On top of that, we DID bring in two straight recruiting classes with players who contribute(d) significant minutes in their first one/two seasons with the program (Newman, Tyson, Jemison, Dawes, Hunter, Hemenway, Mack, Scott, Moore). Behind that, we've continued to recruit well, having two of our best recruits ever (since recruiting has been monitored for basketball) coming in, along with a transfer player who likely would have been our starting point guard all year this year (who will have three years of eligibility left).
Assuming Jonathan Baerhe comes back next year (some had previously rumored a pursuit of a professional career overseas, due to his already-advanced age, but I think he now has something to prove after the two ACL injuries), next year will be, by far, Brownell's deepest team at Clemson. It won't even be close.
PG: Honor, Dawes
SG: Trapp, Hemenway, Hunter
SF: Newman, Moore, Prosper
PF: Simms, Tyson, Hall
C: Baehre, Jemison
Simms and Baehre will be interchangeable posts (who can also both play on the perimeter), which, in the motion offense, will be deadly for opposing defenses.
BY FAR the deepest team we've had under Brownell, and in my opinion, a very clear "should be" NCAA Tournament team...and not just an appearance...another high seed with a potential for a second-weekend (or more) run.
All those things considered...that's what matters. That's the momentum. You can bash the 10 year drum all you want, but a postseason appearance in every season since Littlejohn reopened and the support staff was gained can't be ignored.
Would I like to have seen one of the two NIT appearances since then actually be another NCAA appearance? Yes. Is "make the NIT or better every year" the expectation? No. But you can't look at the first six seasons separately from the last three (plus this year) and say that the production has been the same. It just...hasn't.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 14
| visibility 1,228
|
|
|
50
