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Oculus Spirit [93567]
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I think we need to start a gofundme for these people.
Apr 1, 2020, 10:57 AM
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"Doctors, nurses fighting coronavirus are having pay and benefits cut as employers lose revenue...
In Massachusetts, Atrius Health – a network of more than 1,100 physicians, primary care providers and clinicians – announced that some staff members will have 10 to 25 percent of their pay withheld through the beginning of May, under the expectation they will receive it later, according to The Boston Globe..."
https://www.foxnews.com/us/hospital-workers-fighting-coronavirus-pay-benefits-cut
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: I think we need to start a gofundme for these people.
Apr 1, 2020, 11:25 AM
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Mostly REMF's and areas not in demand like GP's.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: I think we need to start a gofundme for these people.
Apr 1, 2020, 11:26 AM
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Same as PRISM here is doing in truth.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Or maybe, just maybe we should consider moving to a
Apr 1, 2020, 11:33 AM
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healthcare system not driven by and subject to the issues that arise from being for profit companies.
Maybe the flu and other ailments are no different than COVID and treatment for them should be free of copays and out of pocket costs.
Nah, couldn’t be that.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: Or maybe, just maybe we should consider moving to a
Apr 1, 2020, 11:43 AM
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Soon as you show me a way to pay for Universal Health care that does not require EU style tax rates we can talk bout that issue. EU is right at 63% of each unit of currency earned taken in some form of tax/fee. $5-$6 gas is not from special oil my friend but taxes. You may love a VAT but that is gonna kill most folks ,ranges from 13%-28% depending upon item bought or goods/services.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Are insurance premiums a tax?
Apr 1, 2020, 11:52 AM
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Average per person plan in South Carolina is $520/month. That doesn’t factor in copays and deductibles.
For a family of 4 the yearly total cost of health insurance according to 2018 numbers is just shy of $30k.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: Are insurance premiums a tax?
Apr 1, 2020, 12:35 PM
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Obamacare numbers? My policy runs $400 per month for both me and the wife. No deductible,$10 copay and any surgery is max of $100. My daughters policy runs her $32 a month with outstanding coverage and her HSA company portion covers all copays during the year. Son has outstanding coverage for $80 a month.
We all know that Universal Helth care will cause taxes far in excess of those amounts and the numbers you quoted are suspect too. Even the less than ideal policy which I do not use at work is roughly1/2 the premiums you qoute for a family of 4, you also think most folks are maxing out deductible per year?
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: Are insurance premiums a tax?
Apr 1, 2020, 12:38 PM
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I was wrong just looked at rates for current comapny policy and family of 4 is $700 a month. Not great coverage but pretty decent, not close to what I carry from the company I retired from .
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Rock Defender [53]
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You’re talking only about your contributions. The numbers
Apr 1, 2020, 12:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: Are insurance premiums a tax? ] |
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I’m quoting include the employer contribution. We’re not really coming out ahead when you consider that we also pay income and use taxes on just about everything.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: You’re talking only about your contributions. The numbers
Apr 1, 2020, 1:00 PM
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Ummm, I sat with Canadian friends and ran the numbers, they were kinda shocked to say the least. While those who lack company policies are somewhat screwed what you advocate is sacrificing those who have very good coverage at a reasonable price to provide for those that do not.
I have run the numbers Robert, wish they would come out different but they all say the same thing, it is gonna be some expensive "free stuff".
Gander at Liz's proposals a bit to see how it works, 1st off she contradicted line item 1 with line item 6 on her bullet points. Where she stated companies would be able to give employees raises due to no longer providing health care but then said companies would face higher health care taxes. Cannot have them both my firend.
SO income taxes in the EU are far higher when factoring in most pay on all incomes unlike here, you wanna talk about the VAT? Careful for what you wish, it may come true.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: You’re talking only about your contributions. The numbers
Apr 1, 2020, 1:04 PM
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My effective federal/state taxation rate is 17% using all legal deductions. Tosss in my insurance for health and it rises to 23%, seems like a long way from the EU average of 63% even with my non educated self doing the math. Sales taxes are negligible as I do not reuire much and food is a tax exempt item here. You think the good ole USA can handle a $3-$4 dollar per gallon tax to help defray the costs of that free stuff?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Running the numbers with the system as it stands
Apr 1, 2020, 1:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: You’re talking only about your contributions. The numbers ] |
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is a fools errand. If anything this crisis should show us what’s possible in the interest of public health.
You asked how we’d pay for it without 60% taxes. I’m just pointing out that our expenses now are high and rise every year.
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Oculus Spirit [80892]
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How would socialized medicine change any of the outcomes
Apr 1, 2020, 1:38 PM
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we've seen so far?
Italy has socialized medicine, look what happened there.
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Rock Defender [53]
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It’s not about changing the outcomes of this pandemic
Apr 1, 2020, 1:43 PM
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but creating a better system for the future. It’s pie in the sky and will never happen, but bankruptcy because of disease is a morally untenable position in my opinion.
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CU Medallion [59967]
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Re: It’s not about changing the outcomes of this pandemic
Apr 1, 2020, 1:47 PM
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I am really scared as I am starting to agree with you a lot. Maybe I need to go check my temp and make sure I am not sick and delusional.
I wish I could hear more about your thoughts on socialized medicine without everyone else’s screaming and yelling and hair pulling.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Is this an April Fools Joke?
Apr 1, 2020, 7:11 PM
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There’s a lot of stuff I don’t like about the prospect of socialized medicine. At some point it all comes down to a bottom line.
You, like I, understand the horrors of cancer and the treatments surrounding it. The system in the U.K. for instance scares me as it can cut you off and sentence you to death if you need treatments that aren’t on a protocol approved by their health ministry.
Cancer patients from Europe are known to travel to the US and pay great out of pocket expenses to continue treatments or participate in research trials. While their medicine is covered with their taxes, it’s only covered to a certain point.
Here we have the same type of problems however instead of a government agency making those healthcare decisions, it’s an insurance company. You can continue treatment, but at the expense of your loved ones and their future.
We have an opportunity to wholly reevaluate literally everything in our society during this shutdown. Support for government assistance is almost universal, a sea change I never thought I’d witness.
As we’ve abandoned the economy as the driver of all of our decisions and put health in that seat, it seems like a perfect time to have that conversation.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: Is this an April Fools Joke?
Apr 1, 2020, 7:18 PM
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Last stats on cancer in England showed 54% died before getting treated.
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CU Medallion [59967]
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Re: Is this an April Fools Joke?
Apr 1, 2020, 7:19 PM
[ in reply to Is this an April Fools Joke? ] |
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Nah man. Just trying to be more open as we all know, since the Civil War, government comes out of all tragedies/wars and now pandemics more powerful. So I am wondering the turn this will take and I think you are onto something.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: Is this an April Fools Joke?
Apr 1, 2020, 7:34 PM
[ in reply to Is this an April Fools Joke? ] |
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Also to note I was in Universal Health care while working overseas and my experience was not great. Company had it’s own medical system of hospitals and 10 clinics to include all specialties and dental. While one did not have to pay the care was substandard to what I would get in the USA and wait time were on par with EU or maybe worse if the MRI was down.
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Oculus Spirit [93567]
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Oculus Spirit [93567]
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Posts: 95365
Joined: 12/25/09
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CU Medallion [59967]
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No.
Apr 1, 2020, 1:39 PM
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It will get misused like all funds that are raised in crowd funding. I will donate to my local YMCA that is handing out meals and to my church first.
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Rock Defender [53]
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It is happening here in SC
Apr 1, 2020, 1:47 PM
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Legend [16209]
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If there has been a more profitable and higher growth
Apr 1, 2020, 1:51 PM
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industry than health care and its related supply / support network over the past 40 years I'd like to know what that is.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Actually healthcare tends to be at the low end
Apr 1, 2020, 2:00 PM
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CU Medallion [59967]
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Re: Actually healthcare tends to be at the low end
Apr 1, 2020, 2:05 PM
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General Merch stores at a 25%. LOL. Soft goods isn’t even listed and I know for a fact that their Electronics category is incorrect as well.
I wouldn’t post this again.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Yeah what does the Financial Times know?
Apr 1, 2020, 2:22 PM
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Orange Blooded [2685]
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gee, so is this how the healthcare industry works?
Apr 1, 2020, 2:10 PM
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Private equity investors have increasingly acquired doctors’ practices in recent years, according to a study published in February in JAMA. TeamHealth was bought by Blackstone Group in 2016; another top staffing firm, Envision Healthcare, is owned by KKR. (The staffing companies have also been implicated in the controversy over “surprise billing.”)
It is a shame we let corporate priorities take over to this extent. Market-driven, supply and demand curves can't handle this kind of crisis. All of those companies primarily depend on expensive elective procedures for their income, and since those are being paused, the effects have cascaded down to the detriment of the rest of the services that communities rely on.
This crisis is fairly damning evidence that we don't have a heal care system, we just have an industry that is as fragile as any other. Unfortunately, it is also one that everyone's existence relies on succeeding.
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