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YOUR BALANCE
Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?
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Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 8:52 AM

I follow our baseball team but really don't know much about the sport. From an outsider seeing such an implosion makes me wonder if there is something more/mental/leadership going on. Otherwise, how does a team go from consistent hitting and pitching over a long period to consistently doing the opposite?

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 8:55 AM

We’ve never had consistent hitting under monte. Idk why we don’t have leadership but it’s not showing. The biggest problem is development. Players aren’t any better as veterans than they are as youngsters. Some are even worse. This is a sign of bad coaching

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Spotty hitting and the pitching is average at best***


Apr 24, 2019, 9:18 AM



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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


We are consistently scoring fewer runs than the other team.


Apr 24, 2019, 9:45 AM

That tends to lead to losing more than winning.

HTH.

(joking aside, I don't watch baseball but it sounds like we are having issues with our pitching depth and batting)

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


But wait...

1

Apr 24, 2019, 1:21 PM

Shouldn’t it be due to not enough money, low attendance, and poor facilities?

Or is that just a basketball excuse?

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 9:55 AM

In baseball, more than any other sport except maybe golf, the more you focus on trying to turn things around and fix it the tougher it gets to actually perform.

The Tigers seem to be so focused on getting out of the hole that they are struggling to "just play baseball".

I see pressing and putting so much pressure on every play that it is almost impossible to perform when it matters.

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 10:23 AM

Tiger Rag is a coot. Our baseball team seems to be uncoachable. They continue to take first ball pitches strikes, swing for the fences, strike at balls out of the strike zone, errors, and an inability to advance runners. Also it appears they have lost their confidence. Once you lose your confidence in baseball, it is difficult to get it back. I'm not sure this team will end up with a winning record. The wheels have definitely fallen off. Hate to be so negative but they don't improve in any area. Its a broken record.

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 12:15 PM

What makes you think that

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 12:48 PM [ in reply to Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team? ]

You either didn't read anything I said (which would be strange since you commented to me) or you disagree with all of it.

I can agree with the lack of confidence.

The idea that these players are uncoachable is completely ridiculous.

Uncoachable kids don't stick around on college baseball teams. Unless you are only referring to freshmen then you are way off base. Even the freshmen would likely be grabbing some bench if they were not listening and trying to execute what the coaches are saying.

In terms of your list of what's wrong, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that taking strikes and swinging at balls is a problem. Same with making errors. Typically all three of these things can fall under a snowball effect. The more you focus on them and the harder you try not to do them, the more they happen.

Finally the complaint of swinging for the fences and not advancing runners. This is the favorite complaint from anyone watching a team who doesn't bunt ten times a game or try to hit grounders to SS or 2B. Everybody teaches their players to swing hard. Guys who don't swing hard get out. There are fractions of an inch between a high fly ball and a chopper to the infield. The idea that you or anyone can watch a guy swing and know what he is thinking is amazing. Sometimes guys are thinking to hit opposite field and pitch location or timing make the result a pop up or pulled pitch. Sometimes guys are thinking ground ball and get under it or swing and miss. With the pitches that are being thrown at the collegiate level, players don't have the luxury to choose where they want to hit the ball with 2 strikes. That is why players are taught to be productive early in the count with runners on base. Unfortunately if you happen to get fooled on 1 pitch and foul off another then you are in a bad spot and it becomes much tougher to get your job done.
Add a ton of internal and external pressure to the situation and you get the results that our guys are producing on the field.

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 10:29 AM

I won't pretend to be an expert on this issue but anyone who has played baseball understands that confidence is a huge part of hitting. We are not a confident team currently. You can see this in all of the called third strikes(yeah, I know the umps miss some of these, but a confident hitter will be swinging instead of putting it in the umps hand). Also as many have stated, we don't seem to be able to hit a curve ball consistently. Our pitching is also lacking in that we don't get consistently good performances; injuries and youth are a factor here but not the whole story. Our defense has let us down in some critical situations as well. Hitting, pitching and defense have contributed to this string of losses which include many very close games. I guess I have largely re-stated the obvious. Hope we get it turned around.

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 10:47 AM

Plyler spoke on this at length the other morning. College baseball in general has abandoned the small ball approach and advancing base runners because travel ball and the majors are focusing on power hitting stats. They don't look at the strikeout percentage as much as power hitting numbers, doubles, triples, and HR's. Unfortunately, this is not a good combination when you have a young squad and limited experienced pitching. This is also why you see defenses pulling and stacking sides because they know that they are taught to pull for power instead of hitting to opposite field, bunting, etc.

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 1:11 PM

Mickey tries hard with baseball and he mostly knows what is happening but he rarely knows why.

The stat that everyone in college and major league baseball (it has nothing to do with travel ball) are looking at can be much more simple than than the list of things you included.

Everyone wants the best OPS guys on the field.

You may know what this means but everyone may not. OPS is on base percentage plus slugging percentage. This translates to how much you get on base combined with how many bases you hit for per at bat.

Obviously home runs are more valuable than singles and singles are more valuable than outs. That's common sense.

Where the tough part comes for viewers and casual fans is that 10 home runs in 50 at bats (.200 avg) is more valuable to a team than 30 singles in 50 at bats (.600 avg). To fans they see a lot more outs and think the hitter is struggling. What they don't see is that it usually takes 3 singles in an inning to score a run. That means you need 3 guys to hit .600, unless your .600 hitter leads off the inning and gets bunted over then you only need two guys to hit .600 to score a run in all of those innings.

Casual fans also generally think that a ground ball is a better out than a strike out. In reality, unless a runner is being moved with no outs or scored with less than 2 outs, there is not difference in a ground ball out and a strike out.

People who study baseball have realized that taking one more good swing with the chance at anything from a single to a home run is much better than simply hitting an easy ground ball with two strikes just to keep from striking out(again I know not with a runner on 3rd). Our team is not the best at fielding but still get outs on 96 out of 100 chances on balls that hit our glove. Looking at that stat, weak grounders are not the way to win. Guys have to swing hard and try to hit the ball in the outfield.

"Old school" baseball and typically guys who didn't play past middle or high school hate the new research and information that baseball is using to control how the game is played. Guys who were taught to "hit the ball on the ground and the other team with make an error" think that swinging for extra bases every pitch is worthless. Guys who use numbers from thousands of games know what it takes to score runs and everyone knows that scoring runs and stopping runs is what wins games.

The defensive part is pretty easy. Catch it, throw it, and pitch it. The strategy and difficulty come in on offense and that is why there is so much debate about what teams are doing wrong.

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 2:09 PM

Very nice post and agree with most of your comments, however, some old school aint bad. I have stated before that at times Monte just needs to throw that analysis book out and go with the feel of the game. Just like bill Wilhelm did. It was like he just knew when to do what.

It’s also a talent issue as well. Monte is recruiting good but not top ten recruiting. I don’t have the money to paywforw baseball sites so you can’t really learn about commits as you can in football.

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 2:28 PM

Thank you for your response. I always enjoy reading your baseball comments.

I think Monte coaches from the gut at times but being on the level that I have heard (not old enough to see it) Wilhelm was on in terms of in-game decisions is very rare and almost gone from baseball.

This year Monte has done more stealing and hit & run type plays to get things moving. I'm not sure that we are seeing that as much during the struggle because as a coach when your pitching staff is struggling it becomes much tougher to pull the trigger on plays that can result in outs. You sometimes feel you need to not waste any outs in an attempt to get as many runs as possible. Monte needs to fight that urge to play safe on the bases right now.

As far as sac bunts and squeeze plays go with gut feelings or taking an old school approach, our players seem to be very lacking in this area. I'm sure that the team works on bunting but the execution in games has not been good. At this point, calling either of those plays is almost giving away an out or two with no positive result. Our hitters must improve in this area so it can be automatic when needed.

Much of the other analysis has more to do with how players are coached in practice as far as approach at the plate. Once games begin a lot of that stuff is already set.

There are several reasons that Clemson isn't breaking into the top 10 in recruiting that have been documented on here before with the freedom that private schools have in giving extra money and the loss of the out of state tuition exemption.

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 4:53 PM

Your post are much more elegant and technical based than mine. I caught bits and pieces about his discussion with Bradley LeCroy and his breakdown of Launch angles and technology that goes into analyzing the OPS that you described. It sounds great to a casual observer/fan like myself. Quality pitching depth still dictates how aggressive you can be at the plate as you mentioned. I felt like the travel ball portion of it was a bit exaggerated and filler from MP. I definitely agree that 12 some odd scholarships and the ability to supplement those scholarships can impact quality depth. This is great feedback and it was much appreciated in explaining the current state of CB.

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 4:37 PM [ in reply to Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team? ]

Any time you put the ball in play and make the other team make a play is way better than striking out.
I have never seen anybody end up on 3rd striking out but I have with a weak ground ball to the pitcher.

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 25, 2019, 11:10 AM

Well that's just not true. Catchers throw away just as many dropped 3rd strikes as pitchers throw away weak grounders.

Also since strike outs are so terrible, how often do you see double plays on a strike out?

I see tons of them on weak ground balls.

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 11:00 AM

I would consider the inconsistency from week to week to be a part of the game. Add to that the inconsistency of the college athletic environment, I would ALMOST try to teach a coot to read with better success than predicting college baseball short-term trends. Just the conference tourneys show how chaotic and "lack of a need to win" environment as many teams will take an early exit over overusing a pitcher.

Still, I follow loosely until reg and then it becomes more of an immediate game that I prefer.

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 1:09 PM

Slump = lack of confidence which is contagious for the team and coaches. Bad breaks, sometimes you run into a team on a roll. Fan support is really important ( which I understand. When the team is losing it can be really frustrating for the fans ) But don’t give up on the team. Sometimes it’s the fans who bring you out of a slump. Show up for games and let the team know you are behind them.

Baseball is a unique sport when it comes to slumps because you play most every day. It can make your slump magnified. Basketball is similar. All it takes is a couple of hits, some good pitching, a break or two plus a little confidence then you go on a run of W’s. I was always coached if your practice hard and work hard then a slump is usually mental.

Hang with the Tigers they will come out of this slump with a strong finish. Winthrop is not an USC upstate or a SC gamecock they actually have a really great program.

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The losing streak is frustrating. However...

1

Apr 24, 2019, 1:25 PM

We’re talking about a sport where .300 is a good average.

This is just a slump...the odds will swing back in our favor...and this team will finish strong.

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Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 1:43 PM

"Coaches if you allow your good players to get away with things you diminish the power of your words to the others in the group. Always hold the Alpha to an even higher standard than the others, because out of your sight they generally follow his lead."

Hard not to read between the lines.....something is going on in the clubhouse.

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Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 1:57 PM

If it was a retweet then that means it is somebody else's words.

I retweet things all the time that I think are worth someone else reading. It doesn't mean it is always relevant in my life or that I am trying to send message to someone in particular.

Now if he had thought all of that out by himself and posted the message then there may be more to it.



Man we sure do have a ton of people reading deeply into the twitter page of young athletes these days.

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Valid point. But help me out here....


Apr 24, 2019, 4:40 PM

I will admit that I am not versed on the nuances of Twitter. But why does one retweet someone else’s words? Is it for sharing? Is it a way to endorse someone else’s words? Is it to indirectly use someone else’s words as your own? Just wondering.

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Re: Valid point. But help me out here....


Apr 25, 2019, 11:13 AM

Without trying to read someone's mind and their actual intentions, retweeting is simply re-posting a message that someone else posted first.

It still shows the original post with the original poster's name.

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Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 4:51 PM [ in reply to Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday ]

Trust me what he says is very true ,I know it for a fact. I’m not going into any details but one of the players dad is my best friend.

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Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 4:52 PM

super fan has a friend. now that is rich.

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Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 4:56 PM

that’s one more than you have, I’m sure you are hated by the people that know you best

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Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 4:59 PM

funny that 2 weeks ago when we were winning there was nothing being said except keep up the good work but now that things are going badly it is because we are partying to much. well were we partying before 2 weeks ago or did the partying just begin super fan. ask your friend and get back to us.

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Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 5:04 PM

LOL believe what you want I don’t care .
It’s not a crime for college kids to party

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Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 9:38 PM

hey super fan guess the guys will really party hard tonight. cant wait for you to get a report from your friend. keep up the good work.

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Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 9:43 PM

Ok so you pretty much just said the same thing to me.
Deroberts do you realize you just outed yourself???
The moment the game ends you run to tnet to post the same thing to me and winitall.
ABSOLUTELY F-ING HILARIOUS YOU OLD BAG hahahahahahahahahahaha
YOU OLD TROLL

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Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 10:06 PM

hard to keep you 2 coots apart. you both spew the same drivel. almost like you are the same person.

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Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 10:10 PM

Not even close lol what are you reading?
You are losing your mind for real.
Still think it’s hilarious that you come to tnet to troll us instead of discuss the game lmao
If every post on here was positive you would never be here. You love negativity, because you’re old. That’s just the way life goes.

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Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 10:15 PM

notice you 2 are the only ones pretty much i post about. simply because you are not tiger fans and if you are i sure dont want to be anywhere near either of you . and if you think i am old and unhappy then more power to you.

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Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 10:31 PM

Why would you think I’m not a tiger fan because I post some bad things but a lot of good things??? Do I have to be positive about everything? Is it a possibility some fans come here to get their frustrations out? Tnet is therapeutic lmao Did you read the boards last night? So much negativity and bashing but you wait for me lol I guess anyways maybe you posted last night idk

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Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 10:30 PM [ in reply to Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday ]

Just ignore this idiot, derp is going to derp.

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Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 10:33 PM

you 2 snuggle up. only a couple of days till we play again and you can trash the program. in the meantime dont forget that report from your friend on the big party tonight.

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Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 10:33 PM [ in reply to Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday ]

I’m interested to hear his thoughts.

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Re: Adam Hackenberg retwittered the following this past Saturday


Apr 24, 2019, 10:36 PM

Oh he is comical, it use to be funny as h ell back in the day when the whole board would dog him.
I will give him this he always came back for more.
Now most of the long time posters just ignore him

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 4:33 PM

I have heard the baseball team has not let this losing streak spoil their party ??

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 10:34 PM

What’s the “party” talk? He won’t give me a straight answer to save his life

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 10:40 PM

go to the lounge there is a thread about it , I’m not talking about it anymore.
Shouldn’t said what I did

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 10:44 PM

I got ya

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Re: Thoughts on what is going on with our baseball team?


Apr 24, 2019, 6:36 PM

I asked Tommy Bowden to give me his thoughts on the team, and he said that Kyle Parker looked good in baseball pants, so maybe there's hope.

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We fixed the problems. We won tonight.


Apr 24, 2019, 10:37 PM

The losing streak has ended!

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