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CU Guru [1895]
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A Closer Look At Clemson Basketball (Long)
Nov 22, 2014, 8:44 AM
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Let me start by saying, I am disappointed in the last 2 games. However, I am not calling for the coaches head based on a couple of games. With that in mind, I decided to look at how Brownell stacked up against other coaches over the history of Clemson Basketball in the ACC.
Since 1975, when Bill Foster took over, the team's winning % Overall and in the ACC has been relatively the same (with the exception of the Larry Shyatt era).
Leaving out the Shyatt years, Clemson's Overall Win % is 59% and the ACC Win % is 43%.
7 of the last 11 seasons, we have been at .500 or better in the ACC. Only one of those years was .500 and that was (2011-12) 8 - 8 under Brownell. Only one losing season in his first four. Compare that to the other coaches first 4 years in the ACC:
Foster 1-3, Ellis 1-3, Barnes 1-3, Shyatt 0-4, Purnell 1-3, Brownell 2-1-1
Of Foster, Ellis, Barnes, Purnell, and Brownell, Brownell currently has the lowest win % rating overall, but he has the highest win % rating in the ACC.
Are we ready to be in elite status in the ACC? Probably not, but we never have been. We may not win the ACC this year, but Brownell will have this team ready for ACC play.
We lost, by far, the best player from this team last year. We are very dependent on younger players this year. They will develop and we will be fine. Just continue to be patient.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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lol....the one and ONLY requirement to be a
Nov 22, 2014, 8:53 AM
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Clemson basketball fan is patience!
I've been closely following our program since the days of Press Maravich and have learned not to expect too much and to enjoy like heck the pleasant surprises!! This year's team and staff have a lot of work to do to turn the season around...and today is the best day to get started.
Message was edited by: tigrjm76®
Message was edited by: tigrjm76®
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CU Guru [1895]
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Re: lol....the one and ONLY requirement to be a
Nov 22, 2014, 9:06 AM
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I only go back to the Bobby Roberts' days. I agree that we should never expect much and enjoy the pleasant surprises. My point is that Clemson Basketball and Brownell will be fine.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: A Closer Look At Clemson Basketball (Long)
Nov 22, 2014, 8:55 AM
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Brownell if wants to be successful has to cut out losing to in state (and poor OOC teams in general) teams. There isn't a good program in this state, but he has lost 6 times. That is just utterly ridiculous.
Those ACC records are a bit skewed. He, unlike Barnes and Purnell inherited an NCAA Tournamnet team. The others usually inherit crap and had to build.
It won't happen for a couple of months at minimum, if at all this year, but one goal has to be to be a top 25 team. It isn't that difficult to get ranked once, and yet Brownell hasn't ever been ranked.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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We won't make the tournament this year, then lose Hall and
Nov 22, 2014, 9:08 AM
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Harrison, our two top scorers. Given the level of recruits Brownell is recruiting, I don't see us making it next year either.
I don't see why we can't be in the top half of the ACC. I like Brownell, but he doesn't have the charisma or jen ne sais quoi that you need to be a good recruiter.
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Legend [17283]
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Clemson's resume for the NCAA tournament is predicated upon
Nov 22, 2014, 9:38 AM
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a strong pre-ACC record.
For Clemson, a .500 or slightly above winning percentage in the ACC will NOT make the tournament unless we only have 1 or 2 pre-ACC losses.
Brownell lack of early season success essentially dooms the team before January each year.These are really bad losses that cannot be excused.
We do get better as the year progresses but it is not impressive enough to overcome these type losses.
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110%er [6096]
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No way we were ever making the NCAA this year anyway***
Nov 22, 2014, 9:44 AM
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All-TigerNet [10632]
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Excellent - thoughtful post...........
Nov 22, 2014, 9:47 AM
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I like Brownell a lot and think he is an excellent coach. His on court demeanor, his handling of his players, etc. in my opinion has been excellent. The one puzzling part of the equation is why we are not able to attract players that on the surface are probably not much better than schools like Gardner Webb and Winthrop. There is no question that we would probably beat those teams seven out of ten times, but why are we not beating them ten out of ten.
I guess the bottom line is that basketball players are so much different from football players in what they are looking for in a college. I think too many of the middle upper echelon players feel like they are NBA material and want to go to schools that produce those players. Maybe can't blame them. if you think about it, all of our successful NBA players came to Clemson as "projects", at best!
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Fan [65]
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Re: Excellent - thoughtful post...........
Nov 22, 2014, 9:57 AM
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Love the BBall discussion.Brownell's system requires a scoring point guard and a PF that can shoot it. We have a transfer that can shoot it but he's sitting out this year.Disappointed in Rods overall play so far.This team can easily turn it around so don't give up yet.
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Associate AD [823]
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Let me ASSURE you that we will not win the ACC this year***
Nov 22, 2014, 9:50 AM
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nm
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Head Coach [785]
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Re: A Closer Look At Clemson Basketball (Long)
Nov 22, 2014, 9:51 AM
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You can cut it and dry it any way you want, but there is no excuse the Tigers for losing to Gardner Webb and Winthrop. I can go back to Bobby Roberts, David Angel, Richie Maheffey, Greg Latin et al, and have to wonder about one thing. it is a known fact that Brownell has not recruited very well. What I don't understand is why top rated recruits do not look at us seriously. And we lose one guy and we lose to Gardner Webb and Winthrop? I wonder why a high school all-American would not play at Clemson because it is pretty obvious we are suffering talent-wise and would be guaranteed playing time...granted when a new coach comes in, he usually does not have the talent Bill Foster had when he took over when Tates had to leave. But it seems that maybe we need to look at a proven coach with credentials than an up and coming coach...whatever our approach is, I think we have proven many times it does not work too well for us or has not in my lifetime
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Fan [65]
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Re: A Closer Look At Clemson Basketball (Long)
Nov 22, 2014, 10:00 AM
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Our football recruiting picked up when we entered the facilities upgrade race.Google some of the top 30 basketball programs and look at their facilities and you'll get your answer.
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Team Captain [487]
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Re: A Closer Look At Clemson Basketball (Long)
Nov 22, 2014, 10:06 AM
[ in reply to Re: A Closer Look At Clemson Basketball (Long) ] |
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For some reason I cannot understand Brownell seems to get an endless pass and looked at as some type of resident genius, who get his players to play harder then anyone else, that just needs to fill a couple spots in recruiting for everything to fall together.
But here is the brutal truth. The early season losses to subpar competition every year is getting a bit tiring. Brownell inherited a program that had gone to three stright NCAA tournaments. A program that had enough talent left in it to go for a fourth time in his first year. Yet since the program has gone backwards, and is in far worse shape than it was when he took over. Yea, every other year or so, you get a win over UNC, or Duke, at home, which gives everyone the false impression that some type of corner is being turned. But it isnt. Can Clemson ever have the type of basketball program seen at UNC or Duke? No. No more than they can have the type of football program Clemson has. But Clemson could at least be a program in the fight every year. But as long as football seems in good shape, folks kind of just don't care about basketball and hold it to a higher standard. But like Brownell, or not, the status quo is just now measuring up.
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