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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 29, 2018, 9:30 AM
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This list is dominated by centers and number of championships is a major consideration. It should give you guys something to argue about for a while.
1.Michael Jordan (6-0 in NBA Finals, 6 times Finals MVP, 5 times NBA MVP, 10 times all NBA first team, 9 times all NBA Defensive Team, 30 points 6 rebounds 5 assists for career)
2. Bill Russell ( 11-1 in NBA Finals, 5 times NBA MVP, 15 points 22 rebounds 4 assists for career, didn’t keep stats for blocked shots and didn’t award all defensive team nor finals MVP when he played, PLAYER-COACH last 3 seasons)
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar (6-4 in NBA Finals, 2 times NBA Finals MVP, 6 times NBA MVP, 10 times All NBA First team, 5 Times All NBA Defensive team, 24 points, 11 rebounds for career)
4. Lebron James (3-5 in NBA Finals, 3 times NBA Finals MVP, 4 times NBA MVP, 12 times All NBA First team, 5 times NBA All Defensive First Team, 27 points, 7 Rebounds, 7 assists for career)
Tie 5. Wilt Chamberlain (2-4 in NBA Finals, 1 NBA Finals MVP, 4 times NBA MVP, 7 times all NBA First Team, 2 times All NBA Defensive Team, averaged 30 points, 22 rebounds for career, averaged 50 points a game in 61-62, SLEPT WITH 20,000 women 0 men)
5. Magic Johnson (5-4 in NBA Finals, 3 times NBA Finals MVP, 3 times NBA MVP, 9 times NBA First Team, avg. 19 points, 12 assists, and 7 rebounds for career)
7,8,9 probably Oscar Robertson, Larry Bird, and Tim Duncan not sure of order.
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Orange Blooded [4186]
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Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 29, 2018, 9:44 AM
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Not in any particular order:
Larry Bird
Bob Cousy
Jerry West
John Havlicek
Rick Barry
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Team Captain [489]
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Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 29, 2018, 9:47 AM
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Bahahaha! Be careful, your white supremacy is showing.
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110%er [5434]
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Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 29, 2018, 8:04 PM
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Dang dude how the people that pick all black
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Legend [19913]
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Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 29, 2018, 8:08 PM
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Wouldn't an all-black top 5 be far less of a statistical outlier, considering the NBA is ~75% black?
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110%er [5434]
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Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 29, 2018, 10:17 PM
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Not if the guy thinks his five is better. Duh
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Hall of Famer [24509]
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Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 29, 2018, 8:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time: ] |
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Bahahaha! Be careful, your white supremacy is showing.
Dunno... Those are some pretty good white players...
And that's coming from a black man....
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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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Dang good but doesn’t compare to MJ, Russell, Kareem,
May 29, 2018, 10:22 PM
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Lebron, etc.
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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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Letterman [276]
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Heisman Winner [133731]
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Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 29, 2018, 9:58 AM
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I could go along with your list. glad you left Shaq and Kobe off. All Shaq could do was charge, then dunk.
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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I'm not going to argue for him being top 5, but Shaq was
May 29, 2018, 10:11 AM
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insane. He was better than Kobe IMO.
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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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Great player. I'd have him as #4 Center behind Russell,
May 29, 2018, 10:39 AM
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Kareem, and Wilt.
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110%er [7723]
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When Shaq was in his best shape
May 29, 2018, 10:50 AM
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he would have physically abused any of those 3 guys. All 3 of those faced weak competition.
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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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This is based on their time in the league.***
May 29, 2018, 11:00 AM
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110%er [7723]
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Re: This is based on their time in the league.***
May 29, 2018, 1:15 PM
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That's fine... but it needs to have a caveat that this is "a list of the best players at dominating smaller, whiter opponents." 
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Legend [16121]
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I know right? Were there 6 other players over 6-9 when
May 29, 2018, 7:32 PM
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Russell played?
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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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There were only 10 teams in 1966. Assuming they
May 29, 2018, 10:25 PM
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all had one or two over 6’9” but with Wilt, Nate Thurmond, and Willis Reed, Russell had plenty of battles against elite big men.
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Legend [16121]
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You're assuming though, were there REALLY 20 players 6-9
May 29, 2018, 10:47 PM
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or better?
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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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Looked up four teams in the East from 65-66, Celts,
May 29, 2018, 10:58 PM
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Bullets, Knicks, and Sixers, and there are 9. You look up the other 6 teams.
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Legend [16121]
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Why? I didn't say there were up to 20***
May 29, 2018, 11:01 PM
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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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Neither did I. I said I assumed each team had one or two.
May 29, 2018, 11:27 PM
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I looked at four teams. They all had at least two.
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All-TigerNet [10901]
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All-TigerNet [10901]
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Wilt Chamberlain would not get physically abused by anyone!
May 29, 2018, 7:53 PM
[ in reply to When Shaq was in his best shape ] |
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Shaq could not run the floor with Wilt.
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Did you watch Shaq when he was with the Magic?
May 29, 2018, 9:00 PM
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Most nimble and athletic 300+ lb man I've ever seen and he could absolutely run the floor back then. He got up to like 340 later with the Lakers but he could still move and he wouldve had 70 lbs on Wilt at that point.
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110%er [7723]
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Greatest in their time or who would win now?
May 29, 2018, 10:47 AM
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"Russell never averaged more than 18.9 points per game (1961-62), he played during a pace-inflated era when stars rarely left the court, and as a shooter, he wasn't much more efficient than the league average."
Jordan would still be good in this league... but his big struggle in 3-point shooting would make him less dominant, as help defense now makes it harder to drive to the rim.
Magic might be like Lebron in this league now. They are eerily similar, but Magic had far better teammates.
Kareem would not be a Top 5 player today. Centers just aren't as valuable as wing-men today.
If you took anyone in history and put them in today's league where we have more advanced defensive and offensive technique, skills and schemes, my top 5 would be....
1. Lebron James
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kevin Durant
4. Michael Jordan
5. Larry Bird
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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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In their time only. Magic, Bird, nor Jordan would be
May 29, 2018, 10:59 AM
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great players today. Jordan would be good not great. Magic nor Bird would make a team today because they couldn't guard anyone.
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CU Guru [1676]
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Re: In their time only. Magic, Bird, nor Jordan would be
May 29, 2018, 11:11 AM
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How would they not be good players today. 3 of the highest basketball it's ever. Plus they played a more physical and team game than they do today. The question is would some of the players today have been good players back then.
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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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Jordan maybe. Bird/Magic haven't played in close to 30 years
May 29, 2018, 11:17 AM
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If you don't think players are bigger, stronger, faster, and can jump higher today, then I don't know what to say.
Bird/Magic couldn't guard anyone today.
Example, Bird would have to guard Lebron. Magic would have to guard Durant. They couldn't do it.
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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He's right that some of those guys would get really
May 29, 2018, 11:21 AM
[ in reply to Re: In their time only. Magic, Bird, nor Jordan would be ] |
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abused on defense in today's game.
My counter argument to that is those guys would be in better physical condition if they played today. There have been so many advancements in medicine, diet, strength and conditioning, and even travel since the 80's that those guys never had access to.
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CU Guru [1676]
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Re: He's right that some of those guys would get really
May 29, 2018, 11:28 AM
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Again ,3 of highest it's to ever play the game. They also got abused then because contact was allowed. Very physical game then, not so much today. They also played team basketball and not as much iso. Can't hardly watch today. If u don't think they could compete with today's players is a joke. I guess 6'9" is taller today than 6'9" was back then . Kinda like sec speed.
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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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NBA game greater today than ever. As a Laker fan and them
May 29, 2018, 11:38 AM
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so bad, you probably don't watch enough. There is better passing, better D, and more strength and speed. Just watch the Warriors whip the ball around the horn. Lebron is one of the best passers of all time.
The only thing I don't like about today's game is they get two steps on dunks instead of one.
When they outlawed hand checking, there was a big change, but today's players are too big and strong to allow hand-checking. The game would get very ugly fast.
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CU Guru [1676]
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Re: NBA game greater today than ever. As a Laker fan and them
May 29, 2018, 11:52 AM
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There is NO d today. Don't know how old u are, but in the 80's was real defense. So much so at least one person was bloody on agiven night. Plus they called traveling and carrying. U have 2-3 teams that play really good team basketball and what 4 good teams all together? Very popular right now but not my cup of tea like it used to be.
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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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D greater than ever. Cavs D smothered Celtics on Sunday and
May 29, 2018, 11:58 AM
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Warriors D smothered Houston last night. Offense is usually just better.
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Legend [16121]
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Thank You***
May 29, 2018, 9:46 PM
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110%er [6280]
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Re: NBA game greater today than ever. As a Laker fan and them
May 29, 2018, 7:10 PM
[ in reply to NBA game greater today than ever. As a Laker fan and them ] |
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Many people would argue that basketball was better in the 70s 80s and 90s. They believe teams never missed a layup or close shot. D back then was just amazing lmao. Basketball, as any sport, has gotten better over time and will only continue to get better. Players are becoming better and better in every sport.
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Legend [16121]
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It is funny how sports is the only thing not affected by
May 29, 2018, 9:58 PM
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bigger stronger faster equals better...Basketball in particular
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Hall of Famer [24695]
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Is it really harder to drive to the rim? The court is more
May 29, 2018, 11:14 AM
[ in reply to Greatest in their time or who would win now? ] |
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spread out than ever now. I'm curious if you were actually around to watch that era of basketball in person. It's not like he blew by one defender and finished uncontested at the rim. He was a magician at getting shots off around 2-3 defenders. There were plenty of good shot blockers in the league back then and they didn't get pulled out to the 3 point line back in those days - they were all in and around the paint ready to protect the rim.
If you don't believe me check out this grainy video of guys in short shorts!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RLjmI6fK4
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CU Guru [1676]
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Re: Is it really harder to drive to the rim? The court is more
May 29, 2018, 11:23 AM
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Love that video. And I was a Lakers fan. Bball just not the same. And remember, MJ was 6'4- 6'5" and light in that a$$.
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110%er [7723]
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Court is more spread-out due to 3-pt shooting...... but...
May 29, 2018, 1:10 PM
[ in reply to Is it really harder to drive to the rim? The court is more ] |
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MJ is a two-guard that was not good at 3-pt shooting. Name me one top 2-guard in this league that is not a good 3-pt shooter. Maybe if you paired him with a knockdown guy like Thompson or Curry (Kerr), then they could spread the floor for him, but his own effectiveness would be limited because a guy like Steph or KD could just outscore him due to point differential between 2s and 3s... which is why teams are shooting 3s at a ridiculous pace nowadays.
The removal of illegal defense also made help defense easier, thus making it more difficult to drive. Plus offensive foul calls are becoming more advanced. I think that he would still be the top driver in the NBA today (either him or Lebron), but I can't give him the nod as a 2-guard that would struggle from range. Of course, he'd probably work his butt off (like Lebron has) and master behind the arc as well.
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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I don't think it really matters that he was a 2 guard
May 29, 2018, 2:11 PM
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He didn't play the position like a shooting guard. He was elite at getting to the basket and finishing, much like Lebron. MJ was a career 33% 3-pt shooter vs Lebron at a little over 34%. Neither were/are great 3-point shooters, but both were/are competent enough.
I truly think that if Jordan had played today and thought that he needed to shoot more 3s and raise his % a bit he could've done so. It just wasn't nearly as valuable of a skill back then (at least that's how it was perceived at the time).
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110%er [7723]
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Michaels best 3 years shooting the 3 were a facade
May 29, 2018, 7:04 PM
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The NBA shortened the 3 point line for 3 years. Do you know when that was? During MJ’s second 3 peat, when he had by far his highest 3pt percentage.
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110%er [7157]
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If steph curry can get off a 3 then Jordan can get off a 3
May 29, 2018, 12:58 PM
[ in reply to Greatest in their time or who would win now? ] |
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Plus i'd imagine Jordan was a better outside shooter, ball handler, and better creator of his shot than Lebron is. Jordan is a better free throw shooter than Lebron. And lebron would be spending way more time at the line if he played back in those days. Teams didn't allow one man shows to prosper without that person paying a hefty price. I bet you put Rodman on him he gets flustered and then Laimbeer puts that elbow under his chin when he drives to the bucket he gets alot less bold game by game. He's good but i'd flip that ranking by putting Jordan where he is and Lebron where you have Jordan. I can get on board with that...
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110%er [7723]
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Steph has better handles and quicker release
May 29, 2018, 1:20 PM
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Let's also not forget that Jordan was only 215, while Lebron has played mostly over 250, so he has a massive size and strength advantage. Lebron is the only player that has ever played that can play and guard all 5 positions.
I'd say Jordan would be the better ball handler, but Lebron is a better outside shooter. They are even in creating shots. Both are ridiculous at that. Michael was a better FT shooter (by 10%). I think Lebron would be spending LESS time at the line back then because they called less fouls. I don't think Lebron would have any trouble with the physicality of the game. He is close to the greatest physical specimen to ever walk this planet. I'd hate to see him allowed to be more physical on either end of the court. It could be deadly.
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All-TigerNet [10616]
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Re: Greatest in their time or who would win now?
May 29, 2018, 8:18 PM
[ in reply to Greatest in their time or who would win now? ] |
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Russell would be on the team due to his rebounding and defense alone. I would never look at his offensive statistics, although anything in double digits would be more than sufficient.
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All-Pro [658]
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Greatest in their time or who would win now?
May 29, 2018, 9:50 PM
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He is by far the best player on his team.
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110%er [5572]
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Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 29, 2018, 11:36 AM
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Any top 5 list without Larry Bird on it isnt relevant. People forget (or weren't born yet) that when Bird retired many regarded his as the best ever. When Jordan retired it switched to MJ. Now for some reason the Johnny-come-lately crowd is cheerleading some serious revisionist history. Bird is minimum top 3 all-time.
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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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As a Bird lover and Celtic fan since the 60s, you are dead
May 29, 2018, 11:41 AM
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wrong. Bird was an awesome player but I'd have him behind Lebron as the best SF of all-time. Consider this, he and Magic played almost the exact same years. Magic won 5 rings, Bird 3 with a very equal supporting cast.
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All-In [28235]
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Re: As a Bird lover and Celtic fan since the 60s, you are dead
May 29, 2018, 11:42 AM
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agreed - as a celtics fan who is disgusted that the lesser team won sunday night, bird is top 10 but not top 3.
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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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Think the best team won both conference finals, but
May 29, 2018, 12:08 PM
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can’t wait to see Celts, 2019-2025. The times are a changing.
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All-In [38422]
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110%er [5572]
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Re: As a Bird lover and Celtic fan since the 60s, you are dead
May 29, 2018, 12:41 PM
[ in reply to As a Bird lover and Celtic fan since the 60s, you are dead ] |
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Nope, you're wrong my friend. Byron Scott and Scottie Pippen won more championships too, that doesnt make them better than Bird. I'd argue that Bird did more with less than Magic. Bird's supporting cast wasnt very athletic, but he made his teammates better than they were. No way he's not in the top 3. LeBron is over-rated, plays in a watered down NBA.
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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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Let's see, when they played against each other 3 times in
May 29, 2018, 12:49 PM
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the finals, Bird had Parrish, McHale, Ainge, Dennis Johnson, Scott Wedman, Gerald Henderson, M.L. Carr...
Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Michael Cooper, Byron Scott, Mitch Kupchek, Rambis...
Maybe Magic had the better supporting cast by a hair.
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All-In [43994]
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Those amazing supporting casts certainly made things easier
May 29, 2018, 1:30 PM
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for Magic and Bird. I’m not taking anything away from them, but it’s easy to only look at championships when evaluating great players and forget that they had a LOT of help.
This is why comparing players is so hard to do. Almost all of the players with multiple rings played with other superstars. How do you really compare someone from a great Celtic or Laker squad with a guy who hasn’t had the good fortune of such a good cast?
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Exactly***
May 29, 2018, 2:13 PM
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110%er [6280]
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All-In [28235]
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kudos for number one
May 29, 2018, 11:40 AM
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and its NOT debatable
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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SLEPT WITH 20,000 women 0 men
May 29, 2018, 11:44 AM
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As strong of an argument for GOAT status as any IMO.
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All-In [38422]
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Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 29, 2018, 12:19 PM
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Larry Nance , Dale Davis , Elden Campbell , Tree Rollins and Greg Buckner .
This was not hard .
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Legend [19913]
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Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 29, 2018, 1:23 PM
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Lebron is 3-5 in the Finals, not 3-7.
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Trainer [43]
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Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 29, 2018, 1:55 PM
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Bill Russell
Michael Jordan
Wilt Chamberlain
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
in no particular order
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110%er [8214]
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Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 29, 2018, 2:03 PM
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Meadowlark, Curly, Moe, Larry, and Shem
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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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Wilt was a Globetrotter for a few years.***
May 29, 2018, 2:16 PM
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All-In [45663]
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Joined: 2/1/99
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110%er [6280]
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Joined: 4/21/15
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Re: wrong forum
May 29, 2018, 7:45 PM
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^^^ d bag alert
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110%er [5434]
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Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 29, 2018, 8:05 PM
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Larry Bird and magic has to be top 5
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Orange Blooded [3981]
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Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 29, 2018, 8:20 PM
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1. Lebron
2. Jordan
3. Wilt
4. Russell
5. Kareem
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CU Guru [1686]
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Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 29, 2018, 9:52 PM
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Mj
Hakeem Olajuwon
John Stockton
Charles barkley
Magic Johnson
Message was edited by: DirtyTiger2000
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Orange Blooded [2348]
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Re: 5 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time:
May 30, 2018, 12:33 AM
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I agree with 1. Michael Jordan and would probably say Bill Russell (Mr. Championship) is more of a 1b. than a two. Two totally different players, but no one has ever come close to being as dominant as those two, or just a guaranteed lock for greatness every time they took the court.
After that, it’s hard to say. Some kind of mix up of Chamberlain, Jabar, Johnson. James would definitely be the greatest player of the past decade, but he was not clutch at all years ago, so it makes it hard to put him top five. He is definitely top ten though. Larry Bird is probably top ten also.
But the competition MJ dominated against. Those were all time type teams loaded with hall of famers. I just don’t think there will be another MJ. Watching him play was one of the greatest experiences sports fans ever had.
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Hall of Famer [24695]
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A generationally debatable discussion... I've yet to see
May 30, 2018, 3:52 PM
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anyone mention 'The Big O' (Oscar Robertson for those that don't know)... He averaged a triple/double for his first five years in the NBA... He was the first 'big guard' and could easily play in today's NBA. 11-time NBA All-Star. Maybe not a top 5, but surely a top 10.
Apologies to OP... Just noticed his 7,8,9 at the bottom. I see we agree.
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Oculus Spirit [83011]
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Couldn't play in today's NBA. He's almost 80.***
May 30, 2018, 5:58 PM
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