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110%er [5000]
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IS COLLEGE A BUBBLE THAT WAS ALREADY ABOUT
May 19, 2020, 2:10 PM
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to burst prior to all this ? I'm of the belief the poor old Covid will be blamed for alot of things, this being one.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: IS COLLEGE A BUBBLE THAT WAS ALREADY ABOUT
May 19, 2020, 2:20 PM
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If by bursting bubble you mean overvalued and in many cases worthless , then yes.
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Asst Coach [702]
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Re: IS COLLEGE A BUBBLE THAT WAS ALREADY ABOUT
May 19, 2020, 2:21 PM
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I think that's spot on. Many people don't understand economics, and they just see the immediate results of acute happenings. When the inevitable acute thing was just the tip of the iceberg that revealed it to everyone.
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Team Captain [475]
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As the father of a daughter who just graduated Clemson
May 19, 2020, 2:22 PM
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this month and who is still paying, I just had the same conversation with a friend today. Not only college itself, but sports have gotten so big and expensive, the virus is showing how fragile it all is.
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All-In [46430]
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Re: As the father of a daughter who just graduated Clemson
May 19, 2020, 2:50 PM
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It’s on stilts! I’d like to win several more National Championships! If you had told me 8 years ago we’d be the best in college football overall . I’d said, “what you talking about Willis”......????
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Legend [16219]
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Very likely.
May 19, 2020, 3:02 PM
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Posted this earlier...
Hard to say what to expect except there is suddenly a massive fissure between aspirants (teenagers and parents) and the costs, value, means, and alternatives at hand now and for several years to come. We've all seen the costs get out of whack here for a while. Here comes a big reset and a dose of creative destruction.
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Legend [17786]
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Absolutely not. Are you kidding me?
May 19, 2020, 3:10 PM
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Kids will always want to go to college. Join a Frat/sorority. Be together. Be away from their families. Clemson Legacies for example - like Great Grandfather like Great Grandson and all in between. That will never change. E-learning will be a bit more popular with college kids/parents on the fence because of lower income. Thats it
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All-In [43990]
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I don't think the OP is suggesting that college or
May 19, 2020, 3:24 PM
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college sports will go away. But at some point, the costs will become unjustifiable to a larger portion of society.
Clemson is a great institution, academically and athletically. I don't see Clemson having any trouble filling its incoming freshman class with bright, highly qualified students. Nor do I think Clemson will have a problem generating fan interest for football.
But if costs of attending continue to rise, I do think you will eventually see a reduction in the number of people applying. Or, you might see fewer people majoring in things that don't lend themselves to a good income down the road. Can you really justify a liberal arts degree in today's society from a cost-benefit perspective? Nothing against liberal arts degrees, but if you major in history and plan to be a history teacher, is that really a good investment? Now if you simply love history and want to major in it regardless, knowing that your income might not justify the expense, that's fine. But for many people, that reality can't be ignored.
As for football, at some point you will see people no longer being able to justify their IPTAY donation, ticket cost, etc. That will either be because they cannot afford it, or because they don't see the value. It won't kill our football program, but it could certainly start to result in a thinning of the crowd in the upper deck. It's naive to think that Clemson football is so popular, and our fans so great, that costs can continue to increase and it ultimately not reach a point when many people simply don't find it a worthwhile expense.
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All-In [43990]
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Great question. Costs have gotten out of control.
May 19, 2020, 3:18 PM
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The tuition increases for higher education over the past 20 years are mind-boggling when you look at them. You can thank student loans for a lot of that, coupled with the push for new and renovated buildings. Universities have taken advantage of this and increased costs an insane amount. Many private schools now cost $70,000-$80,000 a year. That's ridiculous. Unless your child is not only very smart but also highly motivated with a great plan on how they are going to be very successful in the future, an investment like that is unlikely to be a good one.
I feel the same way about the cost of many public schools, especially for out-of-state students. Not as high as many private schools, but still way too high to justify the education and/or what the student is going to make of that education in his or her career.
Like it or not, college football is in a similar boat. The cost of running a program, especially as it relates to the "big boys" with huge coaching salaries and impeccable facilities, has gotten way out of hand. As is the case with universities as a whole, these dramatically increased budgets are passed on to consumers in the form of higher costs of tickets, seat licenses, parking, etc. It simply isn't sustainable.
I know a lot of people who are thinking twice about getting season tickets, not simply because they can't afford them, but because they can't justify the costs. Sure, games are fun, but at some point you can have great fellowship with friends while watching the game in the comfort of your own home. We can all admit that as magical as Saturdays in the Valley are, there is a lot to be said for seeing the game in HD on your big screen TV at home, in a perfectly headed or cooled room, with all the adult beverages and snacks you want, with a clean bathroom with no line.
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Standout [317]
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Re: Great question. Costs have gotten out of control.
May 19, 2020, 4:13 PM
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I have reached that point after 47 years of IPTAY. Not worth the 220 mile ride there and back at my age. 8 season tickets in lower deck and lot 5 parking are up for sale.
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Hall of Famer [22127]
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Re: Great question. Costs have gotten out of control.
May 19, 2020, 5:14 PM
[ in reply to Great question. Costs have gotten out of control. ] |
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My two daughters were in college in the late 60's and 70's, one at Winthrop and the other at Clemson. Each school was about $600. - $700. per semester. I couldn't afford to send them to college now unless I robbed a bank or got Nancy Pelosi to include me in her proposed spending bill.
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All-TigerNet [10482]
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Re: Great question. Costs have gotten out of control.
May 19, 2020, 5:52 PM
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I know of NOTHING that has increased in cost as much as a college education. I agree with the above poster, the astronomical cost increase of education occurred in perfect lockstep with the increase in government education loans. The more money made available for loans, the more the cost increased. Education is for the benefit of society. Having to take on a 20 year debt so that you may begin to serve society is a bad, bad, bad plan. It’ll bite us eventually.
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Letterman [292]
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Re: Great question. Costs have gotten out of control.
May 19, 2020, 5:22 PM
[ in reply to Great question. Costs have gotten out of control. ] |
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You make great points about the ridiculous costs associated with college today, Judge. My son is finishing up high school here in Atlanta this week with outstanding grades and a near-perfect SAT. While he grew up in a Clemson household, we felt we owed it to him to let him look around and apply where he was interested. We figured that he wouldn’t qualify for financial aid, but assumed he might get merit scholarship offers. His 2 private school options (Wake and Vandy) each cost just under $80k/year (total est cost of attendance) and no merit $ offered. Likewise no $ offered at UVA ($68k/year total) or UNC (a “bargain” at $51k/year total). In the end he went with his heart and chose Clemson, but even with the max out of state tuition $ for Calhoun Honors College it will still set us back around $43k per year.
While we were happy with his choice, that’s a lot to pay. None of us were keen on Ga Tech (his runner up), but the cost there after scholarships was $18k/yr, which kept it in the conversation until the end.
These sort of costs were ridiculous and unsustainable even when the economy was hitting on all cylinders over most of the last 10 years. If things stay as they are now for a year or two, the cost of a good/great education will simply be our of reach for so many that colleges will be SOL without major changes to their cost structures.
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All-In [37583]
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Re: IS COLLEGE A BUBBLE THAT WAS ALREADY ABOUT
May 19, 2020, 4:45 PM
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College is what you make of it. If you choose the proper major for "you" and put in the work, it can be the best money ever spent. If you get a degree in hole digging, you have been wasting your money and time when you could be getting on the job experience. If you are smart about it, a college degree has a great return on investment. Saying that... my son starts at Clemson in a few months. I hope his supply list does not include a shovel.
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Recruit [99]
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Re: IS COLLEGE A BUBBLE THAT WAS ALREADY ABOUT
May 19, 2020, 5:45 PM
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This is the prices in the late 1970’s - a big difference from now,
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Oculus Spirit [76720]
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A Bubble Boy?
May 19, 2020, 5:50 PM
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Orange Blooded [3612]
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Re: IS COLLEGE A BUBBLE THAT WAS ALREADY ABOUT
May 19, 2020, 7:36 PM
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A bubble indicates an overpriced product that requires continuous overpricing to be considered valuable, right?
IMO, characteristics of a product that is overpriced (if any of these is present, the product is probably overpriced; in higher education, they are almost ALL present.)
1. The product is paid for by a third party that does not negotiate rates. Your child pays back the loan company.
2. Discounts and grants are available to anyone who can demonstrate a need. Pity the person paying full price.
3. The sales agents (i.e., administrators who conduct orientation) emphasize how many services they provide. None of them are free.
4. The product is sold to your child, for your child. Of course it's worth the price to you. They play off your desire to provide for your child who is now legally an adult.
5. The experience is the primary benefit. Not the diploma that gets them a job, not the education they might totally forget; the experience is what is promoted.
6. The primary purchaser has no experience handling large amounts of money and has no clue how to anticipate the future.
7. The primary user of the product has no idea how to get the most out of it.
8. American colleges sell themselves as the gateway to America to foreign students who pay full price.
9. Colleges must constantly reinvest in updated programs that are intended to give better value to their customers. New schools, new programs, better qualified instructors are all necessary in order to compete.
10. Instructors can require their customers to invest in additional tools and resources in order to prepare themselves for the real world, even if the customers have no intention of using them in the real world.
11. The customers' performance becomes a permanent record even if they were a very immature adult at the beginning of their college career.
12. Colleges cater to customers whose appetites, abilities, morals and mores are constantly changing and who get their news from Jimmy Fallon and Stephen Colbert.
I ask you, as the father of 3 college graduates in the last 7 years: how could there be a bubble?
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Orange Blooded [2951]
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35.000 Applicants
May 19, 2020, 8:56 PM
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Clemson had 35,000 applicants for a fall freshman classs of 3000. Companies like the one I retired from won't even consider hiring someone without a degree. College may change a bit but it's not going anywhere.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: 35.000 Applicants
May 19, 2020, 9:11 PM
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It’s true that many companies still want to see the degree. It’s interesting however, that the smartest and most successful people I personally know never went to college. I have 3 college degrees but the chosen career that made me very successful does not require a college degree. It absolutely does require education though. There can be a huge difference between education and having a degree.
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Orange Blooded [2951]
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Re: 35.000 Applicants
May 19, 2020, 10:13 PM
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I don't disagree with you - in large companies there has to be something to level set with and a degree is often what is chosen. Like a lot of companies, since the work is so highly technical or specialized, the thought is a degree proves the individual is capable of learning, not necessarily that he/she has previous knowledge. And btw, I didn't set these policies, I just hired piles of people using them!! I really don't see them changing.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: 35.000 Applicants
May 19, 2020, 10:34 PM
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You make a very good point that a degree shows a company that the individual is capable of learning. I guess it could also indicate that they were able to see a “project” through to completion.
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